help with cutting [Forum Archive]

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help with cutting

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Posted by: KarlW

I'm a few weeks away yet but I want to start planning:

Once you've been cutting for a while (like say 6-8 weeks) on a fairly balanced diet that is under maintenance by X number cals a day and progress begins to slow, what is the next step diet wise to continue fat loss? Maybe some details will help:

I'm 5'8" started beginning Jan at 165lbs. Ate around 2300 cals/day for 4 weeks on a 40/40/20 macro, no cardio and lost about 3-4 lbs. Midsection definately tightened up. Then dropped cals to about 2000 give or take a few for last couple weeks and started cardio 3 x a week. I've seen another 1-2 lbs come off but still have a bit of fat over the abs that is obscuring their visibility.

Here's what my diet looks like:

8am: (P/C/F) = 32/42/12
1 slice soy & linseed bread
1 egg & 3 egg whites
1/2 cup All Bran
100ml 2% milk
1 kiwi fruit
2 fish oil caps
1 multi

11am: (P/C/F) = 34/32/8
1 scoop oatmeal
1 scoop whey
5 strawberries
2 tsp NPB

2pm: (P/C/F) = 35/35/12
1 small chicken breast
3/4 cup cooked brown rice
2 cups veges (typically salad veges like lettuce/baby spinach/sprouts/tomatoes/olives)
2 fish oil cap
1 teaspoon NPB

5pm: (P/C/F) = 32/18/10
100g tuna (can in springwater)
25g low fat cheddar cheese
1/4 cup cooked buckwheat
1/2 dozen walnut halves

8pm: (P/C/F) = 32/0/11
Evening meal with wife: typically lean meat of some kind (chicken breast/fish/steak) and veges. No carbs here (cept vege carbs)

11pm: (P/C/F) = 34/4/12
1 scoop protein blend (I have a cassein/whey blend)
small handful almonds
ps. I can't eat cottage cheese (other times I'll have some lean meat and LF cheddar cheese)

total: (P/C/F) = 208/134/66 = approx 2000 cals and about 40/30/30

I do shift work so I have 4 different menus for each shift but this is 1 example.

What tweaks can I make to this?
Given another few weeks, what comes next? dropping the carbs in favour of protein and fats and refeeds/carb cycling? or just be more patient?

thanks

Posted by: neddost

how does your second meal only have 8 grams of fta if you have 2 tbsp of Pb??

Posted by: ReelBigFish

lol it says 2 tsp. not tbls

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlW

Once you've been cutting for a while (like say 6-8 weeks) on a fairly balanced diet that is under maintenance by X number cals a day and progress begins to slow, what is the next step diet wise to continue fat loss?

There are a number of things you can do - You can add some cardio, alter ratio's, start a cyclic diet, decrease calories, do a few days of re-feed/maintainence, cut out certain food groups etc.

Quote:

I'm 5'8" started beginning Jan at 165lbs. Ate around 2300 cals/day for 4 weeks on a 40/40/20 macro, no cardio and lost about 3-4 lbs. Midsection definately tightened up. Then dropped cals to about 2000 give or take a few for last couple weeks and started cardio 3 x a week. I've seen another 1-2 lbs come off but still have a bit of fat over the abs that is obscuring their visibility.

So, in total, you have dropped 5-6 lbs? Do you know your BF%? How has it decreased over this time?

Did you add the cardio all at once or did you gradually add it in?

Quote:

What tweaks can I make to this?
Given another few weeks, what comes next? dropping the carbs in favour of protein and fats and refeeds/carb cycling? or just be more patient?

Your diet looks pretty good, my main concerns would like with breakfast.

As I said, it is up to you as to what you try next.

Personally I would not drop carbs much more, unless you start to look into cyclic type diets. At the moment you are only getting 135g, which is less than 1g per pound and this is getting into the type of intake that will leave you athletically challanged without some higher carb days.

Anyway -

Quote:

8am: (P/C/F) = 32/42/12
1 slice soy & linseed bread
1 egg & 3 egg whites
1/2 cup All Bran
100ml 2% milk
1 kiwi fruit
2 fish oil caps
1 multi

Dump the bread. Swap to an unprocessed carb source. I would also dump the all-bran. Try oatbran, scotch oats or rolled oats instead.

Swap to 1% milk. Some would suggest you take this out altogether if you want to really get lean... but I am not all that against milk. You might also want to consider swapping the kiwi fruit to blueberries/berries or apple.

Increase complete protein too - add a few egg whites.

Quote:

11am: (P/C/F) = 34/32/8
1 scoop oatmeal
1 scoop whey
5 strawberries
2 tsp NPB

Good.

Quote:

2pm: (P/C/F) = 35/35/12
1 small chicken breast
3/4 cup cooked brown rice
2 cups veges (typically salad veges like lettuce/baby spinach/sprouts/tomatoes/olives)
2 fish oil cap
1 teaspoon NPB

Looks fine. Watch the olives, they have some fats/carbs in them.

Quote:

5pm: (P/C/F) = 32/18/10
100g tuna (can in springwater)
25g low fat cheddar cheese
1/4 cup cooked buckwheat
1/2 dozen walnut halves

Looks fine. I'd add some vegetables.

Quote:

8pm: (P/C/F) = 32/0/11
Evening meal with wife: typically lean meat of some kind (chicken breast/fish/steak) and veges. No carbs here (cept vege carbs)

This is good but where are the fats coming from in the case of the fish/chicken?

Quote:

11pm: (P/C/F) = 34/4/12
1 scoop protein blend (I have a cassein/whey blend)
small handful almonds
ps. I can't eat cottage cheese (other times I'll have some lean meat and LF cheddar cheese)

This is fine. How much is a 'handful' of almonds? It looks like you have listed it as ~0.5-0.75 oz?

Also - Where are your PWO/Pre-WO meals?

Posted by: KarlW

Wow thanks Emma-Leigh once again I am blown away by the level of detail and helpfulness of your response.

Quote:

There are a number of things you can do - You can add some cardio, alter ratio's, start a cyclic diet, decrease calories, do a few days of re-feed/maintainence, cut out certain food groups etc.

So it takes some experimenting/trial and error to see what works and how your body responds? cool.

Quote:

So, in total, you have dropped 5-6 lbs? Do you know your BF%? How has it decreased over this time?

Yes 5-6lbs. No I don't know bf%, might be something to get done. I don't think I am < 10% but I don't think I am over 15%, going by other peoples descriptions and photos with known bf%.

Quote:

Did you add the cardio all at once or did you gradually add it in?

I did no cardio for the first 4 weeks and in the last 2 have gradually added it in. I think it's helping.

Quote:

Personally I would not drop carbs much more, unless you start to look into cyclic type diets. At the moment you are only getting 135g, which is less than 1g per pound and this is getting into the type of intake that will leave you athletically challanged without some higher carb days.

Yes I am noticing less energy/endurance in my weight sessions compared to b4. Could I sort of do mini cycles where I eat maybe another 100g carbs every 4 days or so? Basically like mini refeeds.

Quote:

Dump the bread. Swap to an unprocessed carb source. I would also dump the all-bran. Try oatbran, scotch oats or rolled oats instead.

What are some unprocessed carb sources? fruit/oats/...what else for breaky?
OK I love rolled oats. I incorporate them on other days when I work different shifts. Anyway, are they better than All-Bran because they are less processed?

Quote:

Swap to 1% milk

......Will do.

Quote:

You might also want to consider swapping the kiwi fruit to blueberries/berries or apple.

Will do. What other berries are good? strawberries? rasberries? how bout grapefruit?

Quote:

Increase complete protein too - add a few egg whites.

OK. Well the bread is actually 6g protein per slice so if I ditch that then I'll pick it up with more egg.

Quote:

This is good but where are the fats coming from in the case of the fish/chicken?

Good question. What would you suggest. Some nuts and fish oil?

Quote:

How much is a 'handful' of almonds? It looks like you have listed it as ~0.5-0.75 oz?

By my calcs an almond has about 0.6g fat? So that would be 20 almonds.

Quote:

Also - Where are your PWO/Pre-WO meals?

As for pre I have just hit the gym an hour or so after a meal. Should I actually have an additional Pre WO meal?

Post is 1/2 cup rolled oats in 2% milk and 1 scoop whey. Changing to skim milk is the obvious thing there.

thanks again

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlW

So it takes some experimenting/trial and error to see what works and how your body responds? cool.

Yup - Although the key principle is the same (eat less, do more) different people require different programs - both psychologically and physically - and this will alter what id best for you.

Quote:

Yes 5-6lbs. No I don't know bf%, might be something to get done. I don't think I am < 10% but I don't think I am over 15%, going by other peoples descriptions and photos with known bf%.

Ok - you are in that 'mid' range... Once you get closer to the 10% mark it becomes the realm that usually requires re-feeds - anything over about 14-15% for a guy is usually where a good diet + good exercise will do the trick... So you fall somewhere in between.

Quote:

Yes I am noticing less energy/endurance in my weight sessions compared to b4. Could I sort of do mini cycles where I eat maybe another 100g carbs every 4 days or so? Basically like mini refeeds.

I would probably consider mini refeeds - or at least some strategic increases in carb placement on your heaviest workout day for a week. Just to keep things 'filled'.

Quote:

Whole or rolled grains or their brans (oats, barley, rye, triticle, brown rice, buckwheat, quinoa etc), sweet potato (you could make sweet potato protein pancakes), legumes (kidney beans etc... You could combine some chick-peas + egg whites and make a healthy chick-pea fritter)...

If you must have bread then go for sprouted breads (you can get them from health food shops).

Quote:

Will do. What other berries are good? strawberries? rasberries? how bout grapefruit?

All berries are great. Apple and grapefruit are also good.

Quote:

OK. Well the bread is actually 6g protein per slice so if I ditch that then I'll pick it up with more egg.

Great.

Quote:

What would you suggest. Some nuts and fish oil?

Certainly some fish oil caps (I would try to get 6 to 10 caps/day) or use salmon, mackrel or sardines as your meat source... A few nuts would also not hurt (walnuts would be best).

Quote:

By my calcs an almond has about 0.6g fat? So that would be 20 almonds.

I go by grams and I believe 25 almonds is 30g... And there is 16g fat in 30g... So 20 almonds would be about 10g of fat... But you could check www.dietclub.com.au or www.nutritiondata.com to get a more accurate figure.

Quote:

As for pre I have just hit the gym an hour or so after a meal. Should I actually have an additional Pre WO meal?

No - that is fine. Just make sure you have protein + carbs without too many fats in the meal before the gym.

Quote:

Post is 1/2 cup rolled oats in 2% milk and 1 scoop whey. Changing to skim milk is the obvious thing there.

Arggg - certainly swap to skim!!

Quote:

thanks again

Welcome

Posted by: KarlW

Thanking you

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help with cutting

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