-->
Pages: 1

Bonds Press Conference


(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)



Posted by: Flex

Even though i dislike Bonds, I pretty much agreed with everything he said, with the exception of him bringing up race as an issue.

Mainly i agreed with:
-Alchohol has killed 100% more people than steriods (he didn't say that specifically, but he mentioned alchohol).

-WHO CARES about steroids in baseball when their are SO MUCH BIGGER things to worry about in the world

Otherwise, No, Barry. People don't want you to not break the record cuz you're black. They don't want you to break the record cuz you're a fucking asshole, that's why.

You could tell he was defending steroids w/o actually saying it. I actually thought it was kinda funny, although i agreed with what he said. He started firing back at the media, which i thought was great.

anyways, just wondering what you guys thought.


Posted by: PreMier

I didnt see it.. but I cant believe he pulled this. What an ass..




Posted by: thatguy

He has every right to defend steroids, but the fact of the matter is that they're illegal both by the government and the governing bodies of his sport. Although I probably agree to his defense of steroids, that's not the issue. The issue is: he broke the rules, and he deserves to face the consequences.

A high-profile athlete really shouldn't have much to say (if they did in fact take steroids knowingly) other than, "I'm sorry, and I'm willing to take responsibility for my actions."

If just some guy, like anyone on IM, wants to take steroids, that's fine with me. It's your decision, and you're the only one you'd hurt if something bad happened. For these athletes, however, they taint their reputation, they taint their accomplishments, they hurt the game, they destroy the confidence of the fans, and they put undue pressure on the athletes that now "underperform" because they decided to stay "clean." In my opinion, steroids has no place in professional sports, and those who choose to use them should be duely punished.


Posted by: oaktownboy

steroids are illegal...period...if he used..which is pretty obvious...he deserves jail time


Posted by: oaktownboy

and i love how he fucks around with the media...the media has been on him since day 1...i love watching him fire back


Posted by: Flex

I could sit here and argue just about every single thing you said here, but i'll keep it simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
they're illegal both by the government and the governing bodies of his sport. Although I probably agree to his defense of steroids, that's not the issue. The issue is: he broke the rules, and he deserves to face the consequences.
Uh, no, he didn't break the rules. Baseball steroid laws were a joke, and besides, Steriods may have been illegal, but they were certainly accepted in baseball only until the last few months.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
A high-profile athlete really shouldn't have much to say (if they did in fact take steroids knowingly) other than, "I'm sorry, and I'm willing to take responsibility for my actions."
Honestly, ask yourself, why would he say he's sorry. Sorry for what?
So he can be ridiculed and hammered by the entire national media like Giambi? So he can be made a clown like Canseco?
Bottom line is the FANS want to see the biggest, fastest and strongest. Certainly no one was complaining when Sosa and McGwire were hitting every pitch outta the park.
And like i said earlier, they were ACCEPTED until the past few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
If just some guy, like anyone on IM, wants to take steroids, that's fine with me. It's your decision, and you're the only one you'd hurt if something bad happened. For these athletes, however, they taint their reputation, they taint their accomplishments, they hurt the game, they destroy the confidence of the fans, and they put undue pressure on the athletes that now "underperform" because they decided to stay "clean." In my opinion, steroids has no place in professional sports, and those who choose to use them should be duely punished.
First off, what bad could happen.

Secondly, they DONT taint their reputation, because STEROIDS DONT MAKE THEM HIT HR'S! Sure, it may make the ball go a little further, but it CERTAINLY won't give them that swing, and that eye for the right pitch, adn the bat speed (although steriods may help bat speed).

Hurt their accomplishments?
maybe, but ONLY b/c of the blacklabel society has put on them like they are doing even moreso now.

Destroy the confidence of the fans?
HOW do you figure? ITS THE FANS who want the biggest, best and fastest.

Put undue pressure on clean athletes?
Well, guess what. It's a business just like everything else. Fairness went out the window in pro sports many decades ago. It's all about one thing now...$. And guys will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make sure they're getting it.

Enough of this rant, i'm off to bed.


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by oaktownboy
steroids are illegal...period...if he used..which is pretty obvious...he deserves jail time
you can't be serious.


Posted by: thatguy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
I could sit here and argue just about every single thing you said here, but i'll keep it simple.



Uh, no, he didn't break the rules. Baseball steroid laws were a joke, and besides, Steriods may have been illegal, but they were certainly accepted in baseball only until the last few months.




Honestly, ask yourself, why would he say he's sorry. Sorry for what?
So he can be ridiculed and hammered by the entire national media like Giambi? So he can be made a clown like Canseco?
Bottom line is the FANS want to see the biggest, fastest and strongest. Certainly no one was complaining when Sosa and McGwire were hitting every pitch outta the park.
And like i said earlier, they were ACCEPTED until the past few months.



First off, what bad could happen.

Secondly, they DONT taint their reputation, because STEROIDS DONT MAKE THEM HIT HR'S! Sure, it may make the ball go a little further, but it CERTAINLY won't give them that swing, and that eye for the right pitch, adn the bat speed (although steriods may help bat speed).

Hurt their accomplishments?
maybe, but ONLY b/c of the blacklabel society has put on them like they are doing even moreso now.

Destroy the confidence of the fans?
HOW do you figure? ITS THE FANS who want the biggest, best and fastest.

Put undue pressure on clean athletes?
Well, guess what. It's a business just like everything else. Fairness went out the window in pro sports many decades ago. It's all about one thing now...$. And guys will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make sure they're getting it.

Enough of this rant, i'm off to bed.
Wow. I could sit here and argue about everything you just wrote, too. I'll keep it short and sweet.

Maybe I'm a baseball purist, but it taints the game when records are set by breaking the rules. Say what you want, but none of those guys were hitting 60+ home runs before they got into steroids. (Except maybe Sosa...was he on them? I honestly haven't heard about him yet.)

Let's assume they never got caught. Fans would say, "Wow, Barry Bonds was amazing - one of the best there ever was." Instead, he got caught. Now fans will say, "He was good, but he probably wouldn't ever have been that good if he hadn't been on 'roids." THAT'S how he tainted his reputation.

Maybe the rules were looked over by managers and trainers, but steroids weren't ever ok. They've always been against the rules, and now that all this is public, the rules are finally going to be enforced (I hope).

Maybe you're right. Maybe no one loves the game and everyone just wants money, no matter whether or not it is breaking the rules. But that doesn't make it right. Furthermore, it doesn't make it something to be looked over and ignored. That is why the media has reacted the way it has, and that is why the governing bodies of baseball will see to it that it is fixed.


Posted by: soxmuscle

Alcohol doesn't improve your on-field performance where Steroids give you that edge. In baseball, steroids should not be allowed in my opinion.


Posted by: gr81

they certainly don't deserve jail time by any means. If that is tehcase then we should be consistent and lock up any women on birth control, since they are also steroids. The government is hipocritical as fucc when it comes to this, its just legalized stereotyping. If Baseball chooses to not allow them in their league, I couldn't care less, they have the right to do that despite my opinions about it. However making criminals of those who want a little cosmetic enhancement for their personal aesthetics is just wrong. Plastic surgery (such as implants) is legal when its a far worse and more dangerous way to enhance ones looks. I did notice Bond's subconsciously defending the roids, which was funny. I bet his publicists didn't want him to say that shit.. lol. He still is an asshole of course, but you gotta side with him on this one imo.


Posted by: I Are Baboon

As big an ASSHOLE as Bonds is, I like him. I think I am in the small minority of people who will be cheering for him to break Aaron's record.

Yeah, pulling the race card was lame.


Posted by: IainDaniel

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Are Baboon
As big an ASSHOLE as Bonds is, I like him. I think I am in the small minority of people who will be cheering for him to break Aaron's record.

Yeah, pulling the race card was lame.

Ditto


Posted by: thatguy

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr81
they certainly don't deserve jail time by any means. If that is tehcase then we should be consistent and lock up any women on birth control, since they are also steroids. The government is hipocritical as fucc when it comes to this, its just legalized stereotyping. If Baseball chooses to not allow them in their league, I couldn't care less, they have the right to do that despite my opinions about it. However making criminals of those who want a little cosmetic enhancement for their personal aesthetics is just wrong. Plastic surgery (such as implants) is legal when its a far worse and more dangerous way to enhance ones looks. I did notice Bond's subconsciously defending the roids, which was funny. I bet his publicists didn't want him to say that shit.. lol. He still is an asshole of course, but you gotta side with him on this one imo.
I have a similar view of steroids as you, gr81, as I think they are far less dangerous than other things we have that are legal. However, it is silly to compare steroids with birth control and plastic surgery considering both are legal. Whether or not its fair, they are against the law and the rules of baseball, and he knew that before he used them. Therefore, he deserves to suffer the consequences.

I don't want him to get jail time, and I don't think he will. But if baseball just gives him a slap on the wrist, I will be upset because it sets a bad precedent.


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
Say what you want, but none of those guys were hitting 60+ home runs before they got into steroids.
Oh no?
That's funny. Cuz I recall a guy by the name of Roger Maris. Was he on steroids, too?
What about (SKINNY) rookie Centerfielder Ken Griffey Jr.? He was mashin' 'em out his first few years. Sure, he never got to 60+, but he was on his way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
(Except maybe Sosa...was he on them?
I honestly haven't heard about him yet.)
THATS RIGHT WHERE THE ENTIRE PROBLEM LIES, BRO!
All this bullshit about what people have heard/said and steroids and cheating and who's on them and EVERYTHING is 100% speculation.
STEROIDS WILL NOT MAKE YOU A GREAT HITTER. I've already went into vast depth in another thread, and honestly i don't feel like doing it again (try a search....i believe it's "should bonds have an asterisk"). Steroids don't let Barry Bonds take that ONE pitch he MAYBE sees every at bat and jack it out of the park. Steroids don't give him a .380BA or outta-this-world OBP.

Everyone has forgotten about what REALLY matters, whether or not steroids do in fact make you a better ball player, SO good in fact, that you'll hit 770HR'S in your career, what NO OTHER PERSON, EVEN those on steroids, could do.

If steroids do make the entire difference, then we should just juice up the entire Minor League Baseball system. We'll see who even comes close to being a superstar. My guess, not many.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
Maybe the rules were looked over by managers and trainers, but steroids weren't ever ok. They've always been against the rules, and now that all this is public, the rules are finally going to be enforced (I hope).
They were just overlooked? They weren't ok? Are you sure?
Well, NOBODY said ANYTHING about them until the media blew this shit so far outta proportion over the last year. Had Giambi not started the entire speculation, i'm sure these guys would STILL be happily juicing and MLB and its fans would STILL not care. But because the media makes a huge stink of it, it grabs the govt's attention, and THEY demand reprecussions, THATS why it's a big deal now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
Maybe you're right. Maybe no one loves the game and everyone just wants money, no matter whether or not it is breaking the rules. But that doesn't make it right. Furthermore, it doesn't make it something to be looked over and ignored. That is why the media has reacted the way it has, and that is why the governing bodies of baseball will see to it that it is fixed.
And i'm not saying nobody loves the game. I'm just saying that all morals went out the sports window a few decades back when $ became more important than the sport itself. And it's not just the players' fault for that, they are just doing what we'd do. They wanna make as much money as they can, as ridiculous to us as it may seem, because THEY CAN.

And the media reacted to it so overwhelmingly is because thats the way society's media is nowadays. One guy gets killed in Iraq and the media jumps on it, when they have no business being in a place of war.

Personally, i hope it is fixed. But i hope even more that people STOP shunning steroids the way they do, which all STARTS with the media.


Posted by: oaktownboy

um STEROIDS ARE ILLEGAL..i think sum of u don't realize that..we lock bruthas up on the street for snorting sum crack..but dont care when athletes use illegal muscle-enhancing drugs? come on..talk about being a hippocrat


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by oaktownboy
um STEROIDS ARE ILLEGAL..i think sum of u don't realize that..we lock bruthas up on the street for snorting sum crack..but dont care when athletes use illegal muscle-enhancing drugs? come on..talk about being a hippocrat
Yes, Oaktown, steroids are REALLY analogous to crack. Great comparison.

He's never been found in possession of them. Are they gonna arrest him b/c Jose Canseco said he took steroids? Jaywalking is also illegal.


Posted by: P-funk

I don't think the question should be "are these guys using steroids". The real question should be "does it really matter??" I mean it comes down to a few things. You can't compare the players of yesterday to the players of today when talking about these records being broken and whether or not guys like Bonds or Maguire (sp??) are to be "tainted" so to speak. All the variables have changed completely. The players today are asked to play more games, more back to back games (which makes a big difference) and road trips are longer. All of these things weigh heavily on the players physical ability to perform. The other thing that has drastically changes is that these guys all have personal trainers (most of them at least) and they address their post season training seriously. this can very much affet their in season play as they come back stronger, quicker and in better overal condition. That heightens the level of play imensly.

These are professional athletes. They are not the average person with average abilities. They are a top 1% of human beings that have the ability to perform with incredible skill. So, that being said, does it matter if they take steriods? I don't think so. I mean, it can help increase their playing ability (although it wont take a shitty player and make them amazing) and it can help increase the longevity of their career. In my opinion for the average person like myself I see no need for steroids but if I were attepting to be a pro BB'er or playing professional sports I can honestly say that I would be on everything.


Posted by: dg806

One difference in rec drugs and steriods is the physical dependabilty it has. Although steriods may have an emotional dependabilty, most don't steal and do things like they do to get rec drugs. They can be abused like any other drug, but given responsible use, it can be good for older males and you can't compare the two. Now as far as pulling for Bonds to break the record, I'm not. Just for being an Ass. Like everyone else, he lets the money go to his head and he thinks he is better than eveyone else. If it wasn't for the fans, he would not be where he is.


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by dg806
Like everyone else, he lets the money go to his head and he thinks he is better than eveyone else. If it wasn't for the fans, he would not be where he is.
That's the thing...you could say that about everyone else.

But i don't think athletes are totally to blame. Sure, they become arrogant and whatever, but you also DEFINITELY hafta blame the fans and media somewhat for immortalizing these people.

It's not ALL an ahtlete's fault. Let's take Emeka Okafor for example. I worked at Gampel during his tenure at UConn. He was a very nice, quiet, almost shy kid during his first year. Then, as UConn's popularity grew and grew and they became practically Gods on campus once they won the National championship, he couldn't go anywhere w/o getting swarmed by people. Sure, it's nice at first, but i'm sure it gets extremely tiresome when alls they people want to do is be normal.

That's only on the college level. Think about when these guys become pros. Endorsements get thrown at them. Their faces get put on everything on a national stage. $Millions$ get thrown at them.

You think he's just gonna act like a "normal" person when wherever they go they get swarmed by every person there?

So during entire sports-career lives when they get nothing but immortalization from people, that is going to make them arrogant whether you like it or not. And it's not even so much that they are arrogant, it's just that some people, well, actually MOST people when it comes down to it, are actually pretty pathetic in the way they look up to people.

just my .02


Posted by: gr81

Quote:
However, it is silly to compare steroids with birth control and plastic surgery considering both are legal. Whether or not its fair, they are against the law and the rules of baseball, and he knew that before he used them. Therefore, he deserves to suffer the consequences.
it is absolutely NOT silly to compare a male using steroids to a female using birth control, since hormonal birth control is just that, steroids! Its exogenous hormone manipulation, plain and simple dude, they just have different goals in minds, but what is teh difference? Why is one OK but not the other? I bring up plastic surgery b/c people are out there getting chest implants, and bicep implants, and calf implants and a million other procesdures, and our government says that is perfectly acceptable, yet I want to use steroids to make myself look better, but that is frowned upon for some reason. Which is more ridiculous I ask you?
As for the Bonds issue, I agree if baseball, a private organization, wants to dispell themselves of steroid use they have everyright to, but for the government to make criminals out of the average person wanting to use them for aesthetic enhancement and not "performance enhancement" is just wrong and illogical.


Posted by: gr81

Quote:
um STEROIDS ARE ILLEGAL..i think sum of u don't realize that..we lock bruthas up on the street for snorting sum crack..but dont care when athletes use illegal muscle-enhancing drugs? come on..talk about being a hippocrat
dude, this statement is ridiculous oak, you don't know what the fucc you are talking about, plain and simple. How can you compare snorting crack to steroid use? Its this exact type of blind igorance that keeps this fire fueled in the media. Look at the science before you comment next will you please...... oh and its a hypocrite, not hippocrat


Posted by: musclepump

I don't care what baseball rules have to say about steroids: They're illegal. It shouldn't matter what baseball accepts or doesn't, in the United States of America steroids are illegal. Period. Athletes shouldn't use them, and Barry should get punished. Jail? No way. His reputation tainted? Done. Pulling the race card? He should get slapped.


Posted by: thatguy

This is interesting. I'm surprised by some of these responses.

Let me start off by saying I agree with you that it is stupid that steroids are illegal. I think they should be legal. I'm not arguing against you here. All I'm saying is, I don't feel bad when an athlete gets caught for cheating and is forced to face consequences. I think that is fair because they are illegal, both federally and by baseball's rules, and things like that can't go unnoticed.

Now, for the rebuttals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
Oh no?
That's funny. Cuz I recall a guy by the name of Roger Maris. Was he on steroids, too?.
When I said "those guys," I was talking about McGuire and others that have gotten caught for steroids recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
What about (SKINNY) rookie Centerfielder Ken Griffey Jr.? He was mashin' 'em out his first few years. Sure, he never got to 60+, but he was on his way. ?
McGuire and those other guys were "on their way" you could say, but couldn't get there without steroids. Neither can Griffey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
If steroids do make the entire difference, then we should just juice up the entire Minor League Baseball system. We'll see who even comes close to being a superstar. My guess, not many.
I never said steroids make "the entire difference." You're putting words in my mouth. These guys were already really good, but they became amazing once they started cheating. If you asked me, that's a pretty sorry way to become amazing. I'm glad you brought up Roger Maris - he was amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
...But because the media makes a huge stink of it, it grabs the govt's attention, and THEY demand reprecussions, THATS why it's a big deal now.
I don't care how they became a big deal - that is irrelevant. But to let this "big deal" go unpunished would be a disgrace to the game, and would set a precedent for others to cheat without shame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
...And i'm not saying nobody loves the game. I'm just saying that all morals went out the sports window a few decades back when $ became more important than the sport itself.
If that's true, then it's sad. I stand by my original statement - That doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it something to be looked over and ignored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
...But i hope even more that people STOP shunning steroids the way they do, which all STARTS with the media.
I honeslty hope so, too, Flex. But as long as it is against federal law, the media and the general public will continue shunning it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
...Yes, Oaktown, steroids are REALLY analogous to crack. Great comparison.
...
Jaywalking is also illegal.
Crack isn't quite as ridiculous a comparison as jaywalking. Crack and steroids, although VERY different, are both federal crimes. Jaywalking, on the other hand, is just a petty misdemeanor, and will just get you a small ticket. You were actually the one with the silly comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr81
it is absolutely NOT silly to compare a male using steroids to a female using birth control...but what is teh difference? Why is one OK but not the other?
I actually laughed when I read this. Here's the answer: Because one is illegal under federal law, and one is perfectly legal. I don't understand why that is hard to understand. You can say steroids "shouldn't" be legal (which I agree with), but THEY ARE! That's the difference, and it's a pretty freaking big difference!

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-Funk
These are professional athletes. They are not the average person with average abilities. They are a top 1% of human beings that have the ability to perform with incredible skill. So, that being said, does it matter if they take steriods? I don't think so.
Yes it matters, because it's CHEATING. Where is the integrity in the world? Is cheating to get to the top ok now? Do people not value honor and doing the right thing? It is so disappointing to hear people so apathetic about achieving goals and breaking records while cheating!

Anyway, my stance remains - they cheated, and they should be punished accordingly by the powers that be.

But that doesn't mean I think steroids are bad, because I think it is pretty ridiculous that they are illegal. I think it's even more ridiculous that prohormones are illegal, but that's a different thread.


Posted by: thatguy

Quote:
Originally Posted by musclepump
I don't care what baseball rules have to say about steroids: They're illegal. It shouldn't matter what baseball accepts or doesn't, in the United States of America steroids are illegal. Period. Athletes shouldn't use them, and Barry should get punished. Jail? No way. His reputation tainted? Done. Pulling the race card? He should get slapped.
Finally! Someone else who values integrity in sports!


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
Yes it matters, because it's CHEATING. Where is the integrity in the world? Is cheating to get to the top ok now? Do people not value honor and doing the right thing? It is so disappointing to hear people so apathetic about achieving goals and breaking records while cheating!

Anyway, my stance remains - they cheated, and they should be punished accordingly by the powers that be.
This is just where our opinions differ, my friend.

IMO it's not cheating. These guys were perfectly abled to do whatever steriods they wanted over the last two decades and MLB did nothing b/c it was bringing in the $. These guys took steroids b/c it made them bigger and stronger. BUT, did it make them better? I absolutely don't think so. Steroids will NOT make you hit .380, an outta this world OBP, break the all time record in walks, AND hit so many HR's when YOU MAYBE SEE 1 PITCH/AT BAT TO HIT.
i don't care if you're taking all the steroids in the WORLD.

the bottom line is people who think they "cheated" have the idea in their head that it is the steroids that make the ball player so good. That's just absolute bullshit.


Posted by: Flex

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
to let this "big deal" go unpunished would be a disgrace to the game, and would set a precedent for others to cheat without shame.
why would they feel shame in ANY way whatsoever. This is another example of how you think steroids "make the athlete". Feel shame for what? For MLB not enforcing it until this year? For the millions they get for playing baseball?


Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy
Crack isn't quite as ridiculous a comparison as jaywalking. Crack and steroids, although VERY different, are both federal crimes. Jaywalking, on the other hand, is just a petty misdemeanor, and will just get you a small ticket. You were actually the one with the silly comparison.
And yes, jaywalking is just as ridiculous. I stated that b/c it is illegal. You're argueing the extent of illegality, which was not my purpose.


And one final thing to ponder....
Steroids were legal when Maris was playing. Are you sure he wasn't taking them? Maybe that's why he hit so many HR's.


Posted by: gr81

Quote:
I actually laughed when I read this. Here's the answer: Because one is illegal under federal law, and one is perfectly legal. I don't understand why that is hard to understand. You can say steroids "shouldn't" be legal (which I agree with), but THEY ARE! That's the difference, and it's a pretty freaking big difference
dude, thats my point, that one if illegal and one is not!! Thats what I am leading to, its ridiculous the double standard. We are making the same point dude, you are just missing mine. I am underlining the hypocracy of our laws and how biased and illogical they are when it comes to this subject which is vastly misunderstood. Other than the law that has been established, whats the difference? Answer me that. As a women it is possible to take exogenous estrogen and progesterone doses for varying reason, and it is also a possibiliyt for a women to begin testosterone therapy to become a male, a process that is far more permament and harmful than a man doing the same, yet as a man it is not legal for me to use androgenic hormones to gain more muscle mass! That is my point, the gov is so off base with these laws I can't believe it. NOW do you see my point that guy?? we are on the same page dude



(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)





vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37