?FIRST CYCLE HELP??mudge, pirate, D, etc.. [Forum Archive]

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?FIRST CYCLE HELP??mudge, pirate, D, etc..

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Posted by: bullet 29

ok boys. bought 2 of your books have made much progress from a medical standpoint and have enjoyed learning the intelect aspect but im still having trouble using understanding and putting together a first stack cycle. the books dont help me relate to forum chat. i have read through about twenty threads on 40 or fifty differnet pages and im flooded. a jump start to keep me pumped would be great.
i did a first cycle of -test enan 250-- for 8 weeks 3cc's once a week. pretty primal considering the forum im in buuut.
did great loved the gains no sides lost a little but felt reletively comfortable. dont know if it was great to do but didnt have this site and my books to reference before i started.
i now have access to a few more items and would like to know what im missing or what do i still not understand. i want to put together a stack that a little more involved. but need guidance??

weeks
1-11 test enan 250 mg 2x week

1-4 dianabol 25 mg ed

7-11 winny or eq 50 mg ed

is this a suitable "first time stacking cycle"??

and more importantly the next part which is the hardest for me to figure out--every thing i read is different quantities at different times with different doses etc...

13-15 clomid or nolvadex??? dose???

1-11 armidex or liquidex dose ?????

would this cover everything. question marks represent contradictions in several threads so im not sure which ones and how much is best for this cycle and what are reasonable doses.
nolva for example ive read really only needs to be taken "if gyno" starts but in the sticky regarding pct it states a good pct will have nolva during weeks 3-8. so should i have it on hand and wait if gyno shows up or with this stack should i just work it in and run it?

so in basic i would love some of the feedback that has helped me in the past.

is the stack on top ok for a beginner (the right weeks and dosage amounts)?

And

Is my pct realistic or should I add or delete something??
Thanks again guys/ good or bad do what yall do best and let me know what ya think!!
bullet

Posted by: bullet 29

just caught this and it seemed basic,reasonable and manageable.

would a simple cycle be better than my above cycle????
week
1-11 test enan 500mg once a week
1-4 dbol 25mg ed

with something this simple what could i run a good pct with.
?????? looking at nolva or clomid?? which one and how much?
or waht else if needed?

thanks bullet

Posted by: Tha Don

looks like a good plan to me

i'd go with this...

weeks 1-10 test enan 500mg/wk
weeks 1-4 dbol 25mg/ed

for PCT i'd go with...

weeks 13-18 nolva 40,40,20,20,20,20/ed
weeks 13-15 HCG 5000iu, 5000iu, 2500iu/wk

just keep nolva on hand incase of gyno on cycle, maybe some letro too, if you wanted to you could add in some winny towards the end of your cycle on weeks 9-12 but i think the dbol/test stack would be plenty enough, that is pretty much what i'm gonna run as my 1st AS cycle, same doseages n' all

Posted by: LAM

I would run HCG during the entire cycle vs using it for PCT

Posted by: gococksDJS

I prefer 2 250mg shots as opposed to 1 500mg shot a week.

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

I would run HCG during the entire cycle vs using it for PCT

what use is HCG during the cycle? i've heard HCG during can be overkill, best saved for PCT

when and how much HCG would you recommend on this cycle LAM?

Posted by: Mags

I thought if you ran HCG too long anyway it did the actual opposite of it's original intention of halting or minimising natural shut down/suppression and actually causing it alongside the exogeneous testosterones etc. Would running HCG for eight weeks (as many have posted saying they'd start HCG in the 2nd or 3rd weeks of the cycle) contribute or cause the above problem then? I thought it would be best either to run it staggered or just at the end as PCT. If an eight week stint isn't long enough to cause shut down, then I guess we wouldn't have aproblem running it throughout the cycle too. For some cycles, with all the different hormones going on with the tests, HCG producing natural test and the Dbol etc, won't that get abit much on the body?

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

what use is HCG during the cycle? i've heard HCG during can be overkill, best saved for PCT

when and how much HCG would you recommend on this cycle LAM?

HCG during the cycle prevents testicular atrophy which makes for a more successfull PCT. personally I would rather prevent my nuts from shrinking then have to worry about getting them back to normal.

I run 500 iu's every 4-5 days during all cycles

Posted by: Purdue Power

I am running HCG throughout my entire cycle too. As far as using an aromatase inhibitor like letro or arimidex, letro has been said to be too strong and even arimidex will hinder your gains. Keep Nolva on hand the entire time. I have been told that it isn't hurting gains if you take small doses everyday to ward off gyno. I am taking 15mg/day.

Posted by: bullet 29

phenominal guys much appreciated. ill take this and look to the books again for a bit.

still a little cofused whehther or not to run hcg all through or as pct etc.. but ill hit the books and see what i come up with.
thanks again.
bullet

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

I am running HCG throughout my entire cycle too. As far as using an aromatase inhibitor like letro or arimidex, letro has been said to be too strong and even arimidex will hinder your gains. Keep Nolva on hand the entire time. I have been told that it isn't hurting gains if you take small doses everyday to ward off gyno. I am taking 15mg/day.

so even a very low dose of letro 0.25mg eod will hinder gains? in what way?

why are you taking 15mg nolva ed? are you gyno prone or are you just taking it to be extra safe? will a dose of nolva say @ 10-20mg ed reduce bloat? nolva won't hinder gains then?

Posted by: Mudge

HCG costs me $5 a week and for me its not overkill, and likewise better to have no problem than to have to try and fix it later. Atrophy can become permanent, so leaving the problem unsolved is not wise.

Posted by: Mags

So running HCG during the cycle for approx. eight weeks won't start to shut down your nuts along with the AS? Would taking 500iu's aweek be affective at halting nut atrophy/natural suppressiion?
How long after finishing the cycle would you continue to take HCG?
Is running nolva continuous throughout the cycle any good to reduce bloat/estrogen sides etc?
Cheers

Posted by: Mudge

HCG is to avoid atrophy, you are in HTPA suppression regardless of using HCG or not. You simply have the ability to mimick LH when your body is going to be putting out very little to zero on its own.

500iu a week? Maybe, maybe not. Some people do 250iu twice a week, I do 500iu twice a week because my amps are 5000iu and that stuff doesn't last forever in the fridge.

Posted by: Pirate!

I wouldn't do any cycle without HCG during it. It is certainly possible to do too much, though. 250 iu every three days starting the second week works well for me. If they still shrink, go every other day until up to size.

Posted by: Purdue Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

You need estrogen in your system to have a more anabolic environment. If you start taking estro out of the equation, you won't get as much out of everything. You just want to keep yourself below the gyno threshold. So the way I understand it(only from being told by trusted people here) since Nolva just blocks receptors and doesn't actually eliminate estrogen, it won't hinder your gains. 10-20mg ed will reduce bloat somewhat, but as soon as you stop dosing it, the bloat will all come back since the bloat is caused mostly by the estrogen and it will all still be in your system.

Posted by: Mudge

I dont buy into that loss of gains stuff at all. I know a guy that pulls in massive amounts of water on 15mg of dbol ED, is that what you call gains, a chipmunk face? So in his case, he would be losing "gains" by using an AI?

I always use one during my cycles and am not about to stop now.

Posted by: musclepump

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

I dont buy into that loss of gains stuff at all. I know a guy that pulls in massive amounts of water on 15mg of dbol ED, is that what you call gains, a chipmunk face?

I love that guy.

Posted by: Mudge

He is the kind of guy who wont run dbol because of that, and wont ever touch more than 250mg of test a week. His favorite cycles would pretty much be 300 deca once a week and 100mg of winny ED (since he discovered how much a ripoff gym prices were).

Lots of guys at my old gym were all low dosers, there wasn't enough cash for running cycles like lots of internet people do. This guy was 5'7" 205 after a cut, not shredded but in good shape.

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

thanks PP

Mudge, you use letro right? what dose do u run? the only think making me think twice about running dbol right now is the bloat on my face, if its bad with 1-ad and 4-ad its gonna be a LOT worse with dbol

will nolva at 10mg ed be as good as letro (say at 0.25 eod) at stopping bloat?

for the guys doing there 1st/2nd cycles and who did PH before is this the first time your running HCG or did you run it previously when you did PH? would HCG be necessary for a 6 week stack of dbol and s1+?

thanks

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

for the guys doing there 1st/2nd cycles and who did PH before is this the first time your running HCG or did you run it previously when you did PH? would HCG be necessary for a 6 week stack of dbol and s1+?

thanks

I wouldn't do ANY cycle without HCG during it.

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

I wouldn't do ANY cycle without HCG during it.

really??

did you run HCG on all your PH+PS cycles too then, or are you just refering to more lenthly AS cycles?

for a 6 week dbol+1test cycle could i just shoot hcg weeks 3 and 4 to prevent testicular atrophy, or would i carry it through to pct?

Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

I didn't run it with my 20 day M1T/4-ad cycle and regreted it. Yes, even short cycles that shut you down. Aim for 250 iu every three days starting the second week and ending a week before pct with that cycle.

Posted by: cman

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

I prefer 2 250mg shots as opposed to 1 500mg shot a week.

agree. more stable levels

Posted by: Mudge

I dont really bloat off dbol, I know a guy that goes chipmunk but it doesn't happen to me, for me its for gyno purposes on test and keeping free T a bit higher. I am using low dose test right now though, so its not completely neccessary.

.1/4 of 2.5mg ED.

Posted by: Purdue Power

I never really got much bloat from the dbol. I held more water, but I just lost a little definition. It wasn't really that noticable to me, anyways.

Posted by: bullet 29

update guys need a little tutoring!!
i recieved my shipment and some changes were made.

i have ready to run
test enan qv 250 = 30cc
nolvadex =890mg
oxavet qv (anavar) = 500mg
clomid =4350mg
d-bol =1000mg

the clomid is not "clomid" it is the off brand, the doc said they couldnt get "clomid" anymore but this new stuff was what everyone uses in its place (dont have the name for it anymore, but it is the same as what is pictured in the anabolic pics sticky)
sooo with these amounts im going to run

test 2cc/week weeks 1-11
d-bol 20mg/ed weeks 1-5
anavar?? only have 500mg how could i
incorporate into my cycle??
nolvadex??? when should i run ? during whole
cycle ?only for a few weeks at end??
only if gyno occurs??
clomid??? best advice with this cycle??

a little rushed in the purchasing and transporting but i think i covered the test d-bol and nolvadex. the anavar im short on so let me know if its usable. the clomid should be sufficient, just need to know dosages? really appreciate all the input.
bullet

Posted by: LAM

what dosage did the dbol come in ?

I would save the anvar for later, the test dbol stack is good enough for a 1st cycle.

Posted by: bullet 29

thanks lam

d-bol 10mg
ill hold on the anavar/ when would i be able to use it though? dont know if im planning another cycle anytime soon. can i use it alone later or does it need to be taken with a stacked cycle?

the big question??
nolvadex??? when should i run ? during whole
cycle ?only for a few weeks at end??
only if gyno occurs??
clomid??? best advice with this cycle??
thanks lam great with the quick come back!
bullet

your thoughts on the nolvadex and clomid dosage and for which weeks

Posted by: LAM

split up the dbol with a 10 mg am and 10 mg pm dosage

anavar is so mild I don't really think it would do much good on top of the dbol and test, plus you wouldn't want to run 17aa's for 10 weeks straight.

for PCT I would keep it simple and use Nolvadex :

week 1 - 60 mg/ED
week 2 - 40 mg/ED
week 3-5 20 mg/ED

Posted by: bullet 29

lam,

so i dont need the clomid??
and question young d mentioned earlier to run nolva weeks 13-18 40 40 20 20 20 etc..
does it matter beggining or end to run nolva or is it just a personal preference??

Posted by: LAM

clomid effects everyone different. It doesn't agree with me at all, I get super moody and lethargic. I'll never use it alone for PCT. nolvadex works better for me. I have yet to try the nolvadex/clomid combo for PCT.

so you don't need the clomid if you have nolvadex for PCT. if you start to see a lot of bloating during the cycle you could run nolvadex at 10-20 mg/ED or EOD. but you want to make sure that you save enough for your PCT

Posted by: bullet 29

what im getting is use nolvadex at the end of the cycle unless needed for gyno?????
your prior thread states use nolva weeks 1-5. i guess that threw me being the beginning of the cycle???

my test goes through week 11 sooo at what week should i run the nolva for pct

thanks for the "baby steps bro"
bullet

Posted by: gococksDJS

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullet 29

what im getting is use nolvadex at the end of the cycle unless needed for gyno?????
your prior thread states use nolva weeks 1-5. i guess that threw me being the beginning of the cycle???

my test goes through week 11 sooo at what week should i run the nolva for pct

thanks for the "baby steps bro"
bullet

Always have the nolva incase you begin to see gyno symptoms like puffiness, soreness etc. Some people take it throughout the cycle at 20mg's ED, but a lot of people feel this hinders their gains. If your running test, you will want to start PCT between 10-14 days after your last injection, not right after.

Posted by: bullet 29

great reply DJS. Lam was helpin me out and your reply i believe was the same thing he was tryin to get across and i was taking it incorrectly.
but that sounds good
nolva 2 weeks after last injection, unless gyno appears early on in which case hit 20mg /ed.?.?. think im square.
2 bad i bought the shitload of clomid and anavar i cant use but i was rushed in the purchasing and transporting so i think i did well for a newbie.
thanks LAM, DJS & EVERYONE ELSE!!
BULLET

Posted by: gococksDJS

If you see gyno symptoms you'll want to take around 60mg's ED until the symptoms subside.

Posted by: cman

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

If you see gyno symptoms you'll want to take around 60mg's ED until the symptoms subside.

Don't you have somewhere else you should be?
At least stay logged in so it apears were there.LOL

Posted by: bullet 29

thanks DJS!
cman: yeah i could log off dont know if thats not "p.c." for forums like this but i run my own business from 6am to 2 in the morning so i monitor as much as i can on here because im so new. i would be logged off between 2am and 6am so i didnt think it was a big deal.
thanks though
bullet

Posted by: cman

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullet 29

thanks DJS!
cman: yeah i could log off dont know if thats not "p.c." for forums like this but i run my own business from 6am to 2 in the morning so i monitor as much as i can on here because im so new. i would be logged off between 2am and 6am so i didnt think it was a big deal.
thanks though
bullet

Its not. that was a private joke between myself and djs

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?FIRST CYCLE HELP??mudge, pirate, D, etc..

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