What's A Good Foundation Base Weight Before Doing Steroids? [Forum Archive]

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What's A Good Foundation Base Weight Before Doing Steroids?

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Posted by: Mags

At present I've sprained my wrist so am out of training for a good few weeks so I will probably lose nearly 9-11lbs as I won't be training and won't be keeping up the calories as intense ( i just can't get motivated or fit in all the eating when i don't train regulary, no real appetite etc ). However, when I'm back I reckon it'll only take me a month or so to pack on those lost pounds by loading back on the calories and creatine. What I'm getting at is I should be around 14 1/2 stone again once resuming training, and want to get to a good 15 stone before I start doing an AS cycle. I've read interviews etc with Lee Priest and Flex Wheeler, both of whom were criticising new upcomming BBs for not having the strong thick muscle older pro's had when they originally came through the ranks, believing the source of the problem to be that newer BBs were using steroids earlier on and not having the foundation base of muscle from years of previous training naturally. I just want your guys opinion. This will be my fourth year training, I started at 11 stone and my heaviest has been like the above, 14 1/2stone. Obviously the first months generated great gains then like probably everyone, I hit plateaus, got through them, but as it goes on growing got harder and slower. I keep increasing calories ( as this may have been a hinderance in the past as am now just over 4000cal/ED ) but I just don't seem to be growing so much now. Does this sound like a time to maybe do a cycle, or shall I keep trying to get bigger naturally first, so to have that bigger base weight to start from? Am I the only dude on here that writes a book each time I post?

Posted by: musclepump

How old are you? You need many years of solid training before using gear. I'd suggest starting with something more mild like a 1-AD/4-AD stack if you're not 21+ having trained for half a decade.

And why because of your wrist would you stop training? You've still got legs and there are machines, such as the Pec-Deck which don't require grips.

Posted by: tryintogetbig

Like flex says As shoul dbe used to polish off a already great physique. There is realy no base weight. Take a look at Purdue Powers first cycle journal he has pic in gallery. He unlike most ppl started with a good base.

I would say wait, and put on more mass without it.

Personally I plan on running my first cycle when I get to 190+lbs and about 10% bf. Currently I am 6'1" , 175lbs and 10% bf

Posted by: Mags

I'm 22, 23 in April, 6 ft, 211lbs (i'd guess at 8-10%bf), bench 320lbs, squat 377lbs etc. I have made significant strength and size gains since training started four years ago and have only ever used creatine etc,will try and get some pics of me in my gallery or something soon so you can tell me if you guys think i'm doing okay concerning a base/foundation, probably won't be till another month though. I know I could still train legs etc, but just holding the squat bar or the handles on the leg presses etc kill my wrist and id rather be patient and sacrifice a few pounds so it heals properly, not rush back into it and aggrevate it even more incase of running the risk of being out for longer. I won't be able to do any sort of cycle at present either as am circumstances aren't right at the mo, probably run it maybe next autumn/winter (september ish) so i've got a few more months to try and get alittle bigger.

Posted by: Mags

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryintogetbig

I would say wait, and put on more mass without it.

Personally I plan on running my first cycle when I get to 190+lbs and about 10% bf. Currently I am 6'1" , 175lbs and 10% bf

Surely, you should practice what you preach then bud, you say I should wait and put on some more mass before hitting a cycle, yet your quite abit lighter than me, yet taller yet are jumping into a cycle anyway. Why aren't you waiting and putting on more mass like you advised me?

Is it your just impatient or are you some kind of super hardgainer? Not diggin at you pal, just curious.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

I'm 22, 23 in April, 6 ft, 211lbs (i'd guess at 8-10%bf), bench 320lbs, squat 377lbs etc.

Some guys can bench 400+ naturally but I dont think I was ever one of them, to me your stats are plenty impressive for your height and weight. You dont weigh much, but you have good lifts and if you are really 8-10% thats pretty lean.

Posted by: gococksDJS

There's no base weight you need to be before you use gear. Just look at peoples profiles on here, there are tall mesomorphs, short ectomorphs etc. but the important part is training experience and knowledge about what your about to do. Saying "you should wait until your 190+ lbs" is stupid because not everyone can get that heavy without being fat regardless of training experience. Just be sure you know what your doing, and trained naturally for a few years rather than just getting into bodybuilding.

Posted by: Tha Don

there is no universial base weight that you should reach before you juice, EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT

it might be 150lbs, 180, 190, 220, 213.51948... whatever!

for a lot of people genetics will only get them so far so fast, i believe as soon as you hit that natural wall and you have a decent knowledge and understanding of what you are doing (so like after 5 years of soild training and nutrition) you might be ready to juice, its a very individual thing

a lot of people juice within months of lifting and have no clue about what they are doing, these are also the guys that look out of proportion, abuse AS and generally end up fucking themselves up, plus once you start juice that is it, you won't be able to gain naturally anymore so basically you must stay on for life or be prepared to bust your ass just to maintain what u have

Posted by: Mags

yeah cool, I never mean to dis anyone on here, so if i come across like that, my apologies in advance, I may disagree, but I hope i'll always try to explain my point without trying to get anyone pissed. I agree with mudge, some people are naturally strong (I read that Jay Cutler smashed out 300+lbs on his first bench attempt-asshole,ha), and I think all my strength gains came from just weight training, I don't think I have ever been genetically strong etc. Do you guys think 4 years of lifting is an okay time to consider a cycle? I'm not looking for a 'definate, tell me what to do answer' but your opinions, would be helpful. Yeah, had a ganders at Purdues journal, think he has stolen platz quads! I'd like to think I know a fair bit about what I have to do now, but am obviously still in the dark about some points, but i'm getting there.

Posted by: Mudge

Cutler worked in a laboring job though, if he was honest about that 3 plate bench thats impressive - some people are like that. I've heard of much larger guys with no training that can hit 5 plates, we are talking generally guys that are well over 300 pounds and fat.

Weight doesn't mean a lot without height to compare it to.

Posted by: Mags

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

a lot of people juice within months of lifting and have no clue about what they are doing, these are also the guys that look out of proportion, abuse AS and generally end up fucking themselves up, plus once you start juice that is it, you won't be able to gain naturally anymore so basically you must stay on for life or be prepared to bust your ass just to maintain what u have

This is true, don't these guys just piss you off. These twats were asking me if I could get them gear, not knowing what did what, how it did it, pct (everything I probably asked when I first got here,haha) etc and the worst thing that got me pissed was they have only been lifting for two months. Pricks.

Posted by: Mags

I have been a labourer for a good few years before getting back to college, but I can't lift friggin' five plates, haha. Your right, some beasts are simply just that, beasts! I found that weight doesn't always stimulate the best growth either-oh the months I must've wasted smashing out shoddy reps of heavy bench just to have a bitch chest after months of it-how we learn the hard way.

Posted by: tryintogetbig

Mags- Surely, you should practice what you preach then bud, you say I should wait and put on some more mass before hitting a cycle, yet your quite abit lighter than me, yet taller yet are jumping into a cycle anyway. Why aren't you waiting and putting on more mass like you advised me? Is it your just impatient or are you some kind of super hardgainer? Not diggin at you pal, just curious.

don't know how to make it quote but:

Considering when I started trainging about 3 1/2 years ago I was about 135lbs and 6'1" coming to 175lbs is a lot of weight to gain. Now mind you I was severly underweight due to heavy drug use, and being a hardgainer on top of that. Naturally building up to 190 - 200lbs is my goal at the moment, and i don't plan on running a cycle till i get there, now also i don't won't to get huge but being 205-210lbs after cycle is abotu as big as i would like to get.

tryin

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryintogetbig

Considering when I started trainging about 3 1/2 years ago I was about 135lbs and 6'1" coming to 175lbs is a lot of weight to gain.

Doggcrap (Dante) was 137 pounds at 6'1" without using speed or any drugs that put him there. He ate his way into the 200s, and eventually 300s with gear and of course 7k calories just to maintain his bodyweight.

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

yeah, well this guy down my gym has been juicing on and off (with no pct, ai's or ae's) for years now, i've already told him to get on the nolva but he just laughs like he dosen't need it, says he wants to get bigger 1st, obviously due to the gear hes been running he is pretty huge already, but he don't look that good IMO, huge shoulders but real shit arms, LOL his Bis are about 15.5inch almoast the same as mine and i'm still gear free

the other day we were chatting and he told me about when he first got with his girlfriend how he was hitting it every night! and now he dosen't want sex with her at all, asked me if i thought it was the gear or not, i told him to get off it and give his body a break and take some AE's, next time i see him he comes over to me and tells me how hes taken shots of this and that in his biceps (and his usual rant about all the fights he got into out on the town at the weekend), then goes and dose some more shoulder presses!

hes a sound guy but hes fucking himself up big on the gear, apparently hes got a lot of mates that have abused roids for years and now hes doing the same... sad really, another 2 guys at my gym have just started doing the same as him, both of which don't have a clue either!

(i mean they seriously don't have a clue wtf roids are, they make us all look like experts)

Posted by: Mudge

He needs HCG pronto, and to learn how to eat if he has 15.5" arms after years of juicing. I was bigger than that before I started, although I am tall.

Posted by: Mags

Sounds like your gym is similar to mine, the odd bigshot etc who gives it all the large etc yet no one really cares. I can understand why these guys are like this, I always contemplated doing drugs to get bigger but just assumed it was straight forward as they did/do. It was only when coming on here and reading up on bits and pieces that I knew what I do now, I mean, I'd never heard of PCT since about last October when first got on here. Thank god for this site, experienced guys probabaly get pissed at guys like me who are still learning and regurgatating the same old questions but this forums a fucking well of knowledge and a hell of an eye opener. The only difference between us guys and those is maybe patience or just the fact we're learning first before doing. I reckon I came close to just doing Dianobol when my mate started ( good pal of mine, but like your mate, no PCT, ran it for 12 weeks and now on winstrol tabs with no break, how he's not dead I do not know, keep warning him. It is sad indeed when guys can damage themselves when abit of time and sense can remove most if not all the dangers) but thought best just run a search before to find out just what it did. Luckily yahoo found a link that went to a post on here all about the sides and probs peeps had had, and how to rectify them. That is when I started thinking there's more to it. Still learning too.

Posted by: Mags

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

He needs HCG pronto, and to learn how to eat if he has 15.5" arms after years of juicing. I was bigger than that before I started, although I am tall.

Your taller than me as i'm only 6 ft but I've always been a tall gangly lad before training. Did you find that your body naturally grew more mass on your torso and limbs etc to conpensate for your height as I always thought it was tougher for taller guys to get big (especially big for their height) than shorter, stockier guys?

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

and to learn how to eat if he has 15.5" arms after years of juicing

DEFINETLY, I know chicks with arms that big. sounds like another typical unknowledgeable user who relies to heavily on AAS with out a sound diet

Posted by: Mags

these guys who talk to me say that gear is the way forward as they don't have the time to eat all the calories needed (don't think they even know about calorie consumption), drink the odd whey shake which they believe is a single magic potion. I tell them the usual stuff about maintenance calorie dose and protein intake etc, but they still tend to ignore that and think AS are some magical thing that'll make you strong and huge from just by doing star-jumps for ten minutes before they go to bed or something,ha

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

Its not tougher for taller guys, we simply require more weight to look the same. A small guy puts on 20 pounds, we need maybe 30 to look the same, that is the sucky part. I have been in and out of training many times, the last time I started I was only 185 pounds.

Posted by: Mags

That explains why louie (although a monster) may have measured the same as arnold in some cases yet being that bit taller made him look 'thinner' than arnold. I getcha.

Posted by: Mudge

Lou's heaviest was in the Masters Olympia where he claimed to compete at 317.

Posted by: musclepump

See, these guys who are fucking with gear like nobodies business are fine other than a limp dick. To me, this says steroids are fine when used responsibly. You can get bigger AND still please your other half. It's the guys who are doing shit even worse than these mates (had to use it) that cause the problems for all of us.

If only we had an honest society where people who didn't compete in drug tested sports could use roids responsibly, and those who did compete didn't use. Never will happen, but wouldn't it be nice?

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

See, these guys who are fucking with gear like nobodies business are fine other than a limp dick. To me, this says steroids are fine when used responsibly. You can get bigger AND still please your other half. It's the guys who are doing shit even worse than these mates (had to use it) that cause the problems for all of us.

If only we had an honest society where people who didn't compete in drug tested sports could use roids responsibly, and those who did compete didn't use. Never will happen, but wouldn't it be nice?

dunno wtf your on about

how you gonna keep the ladies happy with limp dick? thats my biggest fear... one day not being able to fuck the woman of my dreams because my dick is still asleep even though shes giving me the most awesome head of my life! (i already have problems cumming, even when i'm getting my dick blown it feels very good but its never enough - i put it down to low nat. test levels so i can't afford to lose anymore!) for the guys that have run lots of AS cycles do you have any problems? or are problems common? as long as someone runs sensible cycles with plenty of hcg on cycle and nolva for pct can testicular problems be totally prevented? or at least minimized

Posted by: musclepump

What I'm saying is you get these guys who use roids stupidly, but they aren't changing the lives of other people so the government doesn't pay much attention; no reason to. You then though get the guys who roid out like crazy and end up dead. People notice that. I'm saying that responsibility would allow for steroids to legally be used, but that'll never happen.

Posted by: ST240

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

plus once you start juice that is it, you won't be able to gain naturally anymore

thats not true at all.

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

thats not true at all.

good one!

so if you naturally plateau at 200lbs, use roids to get to 250 then come off you seriously think your gonna be able to push yourself up even higher? i don't think so! its common knowledge that most people lose the majority of their gains when they come off, even with all the proper pct, training and nutrition you'd do well to keep 70-80% of what you gained from a cycle, saying you can come off juice and start banging on natural muscle is totally ridiculous!

Posted by: Mudge

I wouldn't say you wont be able to gain naturally (unless you get to 300 or something at 6 foot), but dont expect it to be very exciting.

If you keep 70-80% of your gains, you aren't losing the majority at all.

Posted by: Tha Don

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

If you keep 70-80% of your gains, you aren't losing the majority at all.

yeah what i meant was a lot of people that don't run juice properly (w/ no pct or training schedule) tend to lose most of their gains when they come off, even those athletes with proper pct, training and diet do well to keep 70-80%

just to clear that up

Posted by: ST240

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

did i say one would start "bangin" on natural muscle, as you put it? no, so please dont put words into my mouth. you said after one starts using aas, there is no way to gain naturally, and i said "not true".

so, anyone who does a cycle (or several for that matter) aas then decides to quit, is doomed to never make natural gains ever again?

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST240

so, anyone who does a cycle (or several for that matter) aas then decides to quit, is doomed to never make natural gains ever again?

I've seen many things first hand in this game after 20+ years. and people that start using AAS to young usually either get injured and give up lifting. Or they continue to lift, use high doses of AAS and painkillers to continue to train. with 99% of these people never stepping foot on a stage. so what's it all for ?

and for those who 'think" they have hit a plateau. Imagine not gaining a lb for 2-3 years. Because that's what happens when you train natural after you have surpassed your genetic potential from years of AAS use.

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