Best Steroid myths? [Forum Archive]

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Best Steroid myths?

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Posted by: musclepump

What are some of the best steroid myths you've heard?

My favorite is, "Steroids will make your testictles shrivel away"

Posted by: TJ Cline

The best one is they make you're dick shrink
usually skinny non athletic duds promote that myth

Posted by: Mudge

Funniest I've heard:

Your dick will shrink
Causes bad breath

Posted by: GSXR750

I love all the roid rage conversations.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXR750

I love all the roid rage conversations.

I think this one can be true

Posted by: GSXR750

If you're angry when you're off, you're angry when you're on. No truth to it.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXR750

If you're angry when you're off, you're angry when you're on. No truth to it.

Not true I have seen it many times and have done it once myself...Thank God it was in a situation defending my family.

Posted by: Mudge

I question what tren does to me, but generally speaking for me it is a fallacy.

At least one study, which was posted by one of our resident doctors, had shown that those who rage while on cycle had pre-existing mental issues.

Posted by: musclepump

If it comes down to protecting my family, I don't care if I'm on gear or not I'll go into a rage.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

I question what tren does to me, but generally speaking for me it is a fallacy.

At least one study, which was posted by one of our resident doctors, had shown that those who rage while on cycle had pre-existing mental issues.

Where you take the rage depends on you're mental state, but the added aggression is there.

Posted by: GSXR750

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Where you take the rage depends on you're mental state, but the added aggression is there.

If the aggression is there it was there the whole time. Maybe you had a mood swing because your injection site hurt or even because you using steroids. This mood swing dosen't justify you ripping someones head off. Maybe it gave you an ego boost thinking "Hey I'm using, I curled 20lbs more than I usually do. I'll kick this guys ass." However, you couldn't have harnessed your "roid rage" to protect your family. You probably would have done the same thing if you weren't using.

Posted by: Mudge

I have never done cheque drops or halo, but I still say tren is the only thing I would question from drugs I HAVE used. It seems to affect some people and not others, for me, its still somewhat of a question mark because I am not a violent person and have not been in a physical altercation in longer than I can remember.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXR750

To say the aggression is there is false. Maybe you had a mood swing because your injection site hurt or even because you using steroids. This mood swing dosen't justify you ripping someones head off. Maybe it gave you an ego boost thinking "Hey I'm using, I curled 20lbs more than I usually do. I'll kick this guys ass." However, you couldn't have harnessed your "roid rage" to protect your family. You probably would have done the same thing if you weren't using.

Medical doctors would disagree with you. Aggression is a documented medical fact with use of testosterone.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Medical doctors would disagree with you. Aggression is a documented medical fact with use of testosterone.

We've already had that study posted, and the only people subject to aggression where those who already had issues mentally. That was posted by a doctor here on this very board.

Posted by: musclepump

In doing my research I've heard from seven different physicians that roid rage is a myth, and I've been told by four others that it does, and it's documented. So, it depends on who you believe, I suppose.

Posted by: GSXR750

I edited my post. If the aggression was there when you got in that fight, it was with you the whole time. You just chose to act upon it. Do you think the same result would have occured if you werent using anabolics?

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

We've already had that study posted, and the only people subject to aggression where those who already had issues mentally. That was posted by a doctor here on this very board.

One study does not make a scientific fact, if that were so Arthur Jones would have proved all that he had hoped to.
The PDR states added aggression as a side effect to testosterone use. I will take the PDR over opinion any day when it comes to prescription drugs. Plus life experience has taught me that this side effect is valid as well.

Posted by: LAM

by definition aggression and rage are not even remotely similar...roid rage is a myth

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

by definition aggression and rage are not even remotely similar...roid rage is a myth

Well you must be more educated that the medical community...good for you

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

The PDR states added aggression as a side effect to testosterone use. I will take the PDR over opinion any day when it comes to prescription drugs. Plus life experience has taught me that this side effect is valid as well.

I said it was a study, not an opinion. Testosterone, deca, equipoise, dianabol and anadrol have never given me any detectable aggression. I dont even flip people off in traffic.

I have highlighted certain sections below, for those who may have short attention spans from the rage that they are blaming on steroids

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408595_5

Several reports of mental status changes associated with AASs have been published. These include acute paranoia,[32] delirium,[33] mania or hypomania,[34,35] and homicidal rage.[36,37] Studies comparing AAS users to nonusing weight lifter controls have found significantly more episodes of depression, anxiety, hostility, paranoia, and aggression in users of AAS.[38, 39] One study comparing AAS users on vs off AASs reported a higher rate of aggressive feelings, verbal aggression, and aggression toward objects, but not physical aggression toward people, while on the agents. AAS users have also been observed to have a significantly greater rate of personality psychopathology compared with community controls.[40,41] As none of these studies are randomized, causality is difficult to establish in the association of AASs and psychiatric changes, including aggression and hypomania.
At least 5 studies have administered supraphysiologic doses of testosterone in a placebo-controlled design to psychiatrically "normal" subjects.[42-46] Overall, these studies indicate that the majority of normal individuals will not experience psychiatric changes with testosterone doses up to 500-600 mg/week. However, this response is not uniform and individual patients will experience marked affective changes, particularly as the dose increases beyond 500 mg/week. Furthermore, the majority of real-world AAS abusers will use doses greater than the equivalent of 500 mg of testosterone. Patients with underlying psychopathology (eg, antisocial personality disorder) or a general predisposition toward anger are probably more likely to experience an increase in angry or aggressive behavior. This relationship is important because these individuals are probably more likely to use anabolic steroids illicitly, compared with "healthy, psychologically normal men."

The potential for addiction to the AASs has been investigated. In interviews with 49 AAS users, at least 1 DSM-III-R symptom of dependence was reported by 94% of the sample, while 3 or more symptoms were reported by 57% of the sample.[47] The authors concluded that AASs were addictive and suggested that dissatisfaction with body size and increases in size and strength obtained with AASs may lead to patterns of dependent use.

So maybe your daddy didn't love you, or you didn't have a puppy when you were a boy DONT BLAME IT ON STEROIDS. Of course if you are busy doing all those deca and dbol cycles without testosterone, then common sense tells you a man with zero testosterone is not going to feel normal.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Well you must be more educated that the medical community...good for you

I dunno dude. I think looking at your signature already tells us you have issues. War is peace? Ignorance is strength?

Yeah, it must be the steroids clouding your mind with those ridiculous thoughts. You are just too easy. Ignorance is strength, thats just royal. I hope you dont teach any children that. I know I wont be teaching my kids to beat peoples asses on the playground because that is peace, I dont remember Ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr. preaching beatdowns. Of course if I believed that ignorance is strength I probably would invent the idea that they did preach those things.

Maybe you are really just a frustrated and confused poet, trying to find your outlet. Sure nobody understands what you preach, and it doesn't make sense - but somehow that is your calling.

Posted by: gr81

Quote:

Well you must be more educated that the medical community...good for you

here you are AGAIN, running your mouth like you are right and everyone else is wrong, jesus christ son. Actually in regards to AAS use, yes LAM is more educated than your average medical proffessional, Hee's proven that time and time again. The medical community knows very little about AAS use, thats not even debatable that the real steroid experts are not Drs. When are you going to learn that just b/c you observe something to be true, does not make it necessarily true. Observational science, and simple cause and effect is no way to form scientific opinions. Shit is not that black and white, we are much more complicated than that, and actually if you want to break it down, testosterone has much more of a positive effect on a person's psyche including increased feeling of confidence.. read up

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

I dunno dude. I think looking at your signature already tells us you have issues. War is peace? Ignorance is strength?

Mudge I am sorry but I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and I was wrong. We had a disagreement in my first post and I said you were a good guy and I was wrong and had judged you too quickly, that was my mistake you were wrong as you are now. If you read any classic literature you would be ashamed for you're ignorance of Orwell ( his book 1984 is a classic and the words posted in my signature are the opposite of what you think). And you're total lack of respect for the medical community is a sad. It is amazing to me that a man can believe rumor, pseudoscience and nonsense and have a total disregard for prov-en medical science. I hope some day you grow up and learn to respect science, and grasp some of the classic literature out there.

The bottom line is if you warp the minds of the new bodybuilders with you're opinion, and totally disregard science, then you are only hurting those who seek true knowledge. I hope some day you give respect to documented medical fact, and if you want to argue with it you come up with research to support you're opinion. Calling names is no way to refute medical fact.....I thought you were better than that.
It is easy to hate and make fun of scientific fact, it is very hard to prove it wrong.....I know you are better than this Mudge

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

Please you are too often wrong, give us some facts to support you're disregard from medical fact. You have no support for your anger at scientific law. In the future come up with some real scientific facts to prove you're opinions. I encourage you to rise above you're gym mentality and become the student of science you were meant to be ( I wish I actually believed this).

Posted by: Todd_

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

If it comes down to protecting my family, I don't care if I'm on gear or not I'll go into a rage.

haha you just won the award for biggest tool of may 22nd

Posted by: Todd_

bro gr81 has The Rock and t-mag.com in his sig give him some slack

Posted by: musclepump

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd_

haha you just won the award for biggest tool of may 22nd

Right. And you just hand over your wife and say, "When you're done with her, my brother's got next dibs."

Tool.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

If you read any classic literature you would be ashamed for you're ignorance of Orwell ( his book 1984 is a classic and the words posted in my signature are the opposite of what you think).

I read 1984 and Farenheit 451. Heck I read Silent Spring when I was about 9, and Great Expectations when I was 12. But I most certainly didn't memorize everything about those books.

Since you cite 1984, I remember of course Big Brother, the 'black boxes' which were to spy on citizens with, and a condensed version of our language which I think was "simple speak" or something along those lines - designed to make people stupid by removing the ability to communicate with emotion and overall effectiveness, other than to perform and communicate simple tasks. I also remember the male and female who fell in love, conspired with each other, and then in the end forgot about each other thanks to Big Brother finding them out. Obviously, 1984 didn't turn out like the book thought it would, I believe it was written in 49 or thereabouts.

Moving along...

Quote:

It is amazing to me that a man can believe rumor, pseudoscience and nonsense and have a total disregard for prov-en medical science.

I posted a study, which was posted by a doctor on this board. I believe now that is the 3rd time I have stated this, a bit repetitive eh?

Quote:

I hope some day you grow up and learn to respect science, and grasp some of the classic literature out there.

Humorous. There weren't many people who were on my level of reading, and science nerdism when I was a youngster. I still think that Tesla was our ages greatest, and most underappreciated scientist. Einstein, was a womanizing prick, who got lucky with his findings. He himself said, "Genius is 1 percent inspiration, and 99 percent perspiration." He simply was methodical, and had a few gifts for putting things together - but he was pretty stupid in many other ways, as many quirky scientists are.

Quote:

The bottom line is if you warp the minds of the new bodybuilders with you're opinion, and totally disregard science, then you are only hurting those who seek true knowledge.

This coming from a man who says tapering is good? And that deca/dbol cycles are GOOD? They were good in the 1960s when nobody knew better. It is you, who disregard science.

Posted by: Mudge

Yeah, if it comes to defense sometimes you just can't hold back or you will get screwed.

Anyhow, goodnight all, almost nap time for me.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Ok Mudge lets do this...again one by one...Wow

1. I am happy you have read 1984, but don't give a watered down faded description of the book. If you feel the need to talk about 1984 then explain where my signature comes from, and what is means.

2. It was " new speak" please do not quote things you are unsure about ( and you still didn't give an explanation to the terminology of the book that I quote)

3. You posted ( as you said) 1 doctors study/opinion, which is hardly medical fact. Just one mans opinion and very far from scientific fact.

4. Tapering....please show me this post....I said I end my cycle with 1 shot to taper (i.e. in a 10 week cycle with 18-20 shots I taper the last shot). Show me medically why tapering the last shot of 18 is medically wrong???

5. As a super moderator you have a responsibility to not let you're personal beliefs distract you from giving sound advise.

6. You can make fun of medical facts with you're friends, but give the people here the respect of a non judge mental "moderator"
Please have the class to admit you may be wrong ( I know this is impossible), but humor us.

Posted by: gr81

what your failing to realize, well one of many things, mr foreman is that there is a difference between some added aggression and "roid rage" as it were known. They are two very alternate definitions and imply different things. Do I think that its possible for a personto have some added aggression, yes, but that by no means implies that riod rage is a certain side effect. Lookin at both scientific evidence as well as anecdotal evidence, neither can prove whether this agggresion is strickly a placebo or a side effect of other mental charactaristics. So while your spout your opinions about how you are right and everyone else is wrong and foolish, stop and admit that there is almost nothing in this all inclusive game of bodybuilding that is universally true, very little can be held under a blanket statement to be accurate, including your opinion that roid rage is positive. You say you know so and so who experienced one thing, well I know others who haven't, and theres a million others who have different experiences than that even, so enough with he observational science. And one more thing, don't you find it odd that every single god damm thread you enter, you have 5-10 people calling you out, saying your full of shit, yet you refuse to keep an open mind, insisting that you are right and everyone else around is full of shit. something to think about

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

what your failing to realize, well one of many things, mr foreman is that there is a difference between some added aggression and "roid rage" as it were known. They are two very alternate definitions and imply different things. Do I think that its possible for a personto have some added aggression, yes, but that by no means implies that riod rage is a certain side effect. Lookin at both scientific evidence as well as anecdotal evidence, neither can prove whether this agggresion is strickly a placebo or a side effect of other mental charactaristics. So while your spout your opinions about how you are right and everyone else is wrong and foolish, stop and admit that there is almost nothing in this all inclusive game of bodybuilding that is universally true, very little can be held under a blanket statement to be accurate, including your opinion that roid rage is positive. You say you know so and so who experienced one thing, well I know others who haven't, and theres a million others who have different experiences than that even, so enough with he observational science. And one more thing, don't you find it odd that every single god damm thread you enter, you have 5-10 people calling you out, saying your full of shit, yet you refuse to keep an open mind, insisting that you are right and everyone else around is full of shit. something to think about

Sorry bro but it is not my opinion, it is the medical community's. As far as people calling me out, well it is just a select few arrogant uneducated people.
The donut is the worst of you all......Arthur Jones was a nonscientific hack....but he was funny. ...If it were 1257 you would have me killed for thinking the world was not flat.
I see you still are too lazy to back up you're opinion with any legitimate data...And one selected author is not enough to change documented medical fact.

Posted by: gr81

did you even read what I wrote, jesus, remove the lips from around your own cock long enough to form a rational thought. Btw what have you posted of any fact? this is funny, I was trying to give you a chance to validate your position. I agreed that aggression is a by-product. The world according to you is quite interesting son, everyone that disagrees with your claims and stances is ignorant or uneducated. Go ahead and test my knowledge of AAS, bodybuilding or strength training, since you are so smart b/c passed your little Anatomy class at Roody-Poo community college

Posted by: TJ Cline

I can't wait until Mudge and gr81 give us their research ( I'm sure not just 1 study, but many) on how steroids have no relation to muscle growth, or have no purpose in medicine today. Teach us with you're infinite wisdom.........................please.
Validate my position???? no it is the medical worlds opinion not mine...I just quoted it.OMFG

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

did you even read what I wrote, jesus, remove the lips from around your own cock long enough to form a rational thought. Btw what have you posted of any fact? this is funny, I was trying to give you a chance to validate your position. I agreed that aggression is a by-product. The world according to you is quite interesting son, everyone that disagrees with your claims and stances is ignorant or uneducated. Go ahead and test my knowledge of AAS, bodybuilding or strength training, since you are so smart b/c passed your little Anatomy class at Roody-Poo community college

OMG, this is not high school, You want to laugh at medical science? Ok so prove it wrong..............I didn't think so, get a grip this is not the gym you have to show us why medical science is wrong...............This guy needs lots of help. Look you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with scientific facts.....so prove them wrong

If this was 1233 during the papal inquisition you would be the man....

Posted by: HardTrainer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

3. You posted ( as you said) 1 doctors study/opinion, which is hardly medical fact. Just one mans opinion and very far from scientific fact.

^^^ I agree with that. From what i have read by science i agree testosterone causes increased agression which can lead to increased violence on average (broad scale of people not just a few guys experience)every one has it in them to be violent in certain cases, more testosterone either with increased confidence or agressive behaviour will bring you to the point of agression/violence closer then if you had much less.

Posted by: HardTrainer

Users on this board seem to quickly slander you if you regard one scientific fact/study which "attacks" steroids and then they quote another person/doctors study that "defends" them, end of the day most users will go with the "defence" study as they have biased views on their use.

Posted by: gr81

Quote:

who the hell is laughing at medical science? i was laughing at your monkey ass running your mouth. I agreed that aggression and a boost in exogenous test levels are correlated, did I not? The fact of the matter is this, you can't prove that "Roid Rage" exists. But since you want me to post some factual information to back up my claim I shall, even thou we haven't seen one piece of information from you yet have we....

Posted by: gr81

Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid Use and Aggression I: A Review of the Evidence
by Jack Darkes, PhD
Assistant Professor, Department of Psychology

(excerp)...
Even a cursory search of the psychological and psychiatric literature finds it replete with empirical reports and case studies suggesting that AAS users score more highly than the norm on personality scales measuring hostility. Regardless of this seeming consensus, it has recently been acknowledged that, although AAS use and aggression are correlated, the full extent and nature of the relationship remains unexplained and a clear inference of causality cannot be drawn (Beel, Maycock, & McLean, 1998). For instance, Riem and Hursey (1995) presaged Dabbs’ (1996) sentiments regarding T and aggression, but in relation to AAS use, commenting that "In sum, not all AAS users exhibit aggressive behavior, even though all experience increases in sex steroids (p. 250)." Although AAS use is reportedly widespread (see Brower, 1992), relatively few AAS users exhibit overtly aggressive behavior (rage). Factors that might underlie this variability will be discussed later in this series.

The literature on endogenous T and aggression/hostility provides little assistance in clarifying the potential AAS/aggression relationship in humans for a number of reasons. First, in contrast to endogenous T, AAS use is a behavioral choice. Hence, it is not randomly distributed within the population and AAS users are likely to differ from nonusers. Secondly, AAS ingestion and injection are not simply physical or chemical events, but also behavioral events, part of a sub-culture and a ritual.

The literature on AAS use and aggression encompasses a range of research methods. As with most drug use literature, it is heavily laden with descriptive statistics. For example, lifetime prevalence of AAS use has been reported as 9.1% for males in Great Britain (Korkia & Stimson, 1997). Between 4% and 11% of males in the U.S. have tried AAS (Brower, 1992). And 6.3% of high school football players in Indiana are current or former AAS users (Stilger & Yesalis, (1999). [For a full review of the epidemiology of AAS use see Yesalis, Kennedy, Kopstein, & Bahrke (1993).] An abundance of anecdotal "personal stories" appear in the popular bodybuilding press (e.g., Lefavi, 1998) and case studies are also frequent in the scientific literature (e.g., Corrigan, 1996; Pope & Katz, 1990; Schulte, Hall, & Boyer, 1993; Wilson-Fearon & Parrott, 1999). These data represent naturalistic evidence of this relationship. Evidence from such reports, while rich in individual detail, contributes little to an understanding of the relationship between AAS use and aggression in the larger population. They are biased in that any number of characteristics might differentiate such individuals from the general population besides their use of AAS, again highlighting the difficulty in attempting to speculate about "normal" processes, pharmacological or psychological, in "abnormal" cases. Nonetheless, such cases constitute the majority of the evidence to which the populace is exposed.

More rigorous studies involve the observation of the concurrent correlation between variables within large groups (empirical research) or comparisons between existing groups on concurrent measures (cross-sectional research). Changes in relationships may be evaluated over time, either within or between existing groups (longitudinal or prospective studies). Lastly, treatments (i.e., the administration of AAS/placebo) may be applied to either pre-existing groups (quasi-experimental designs) or to groups of randomly assigned subjects (true experimental designs) who are then evaluated over time.

Empirical and Case Studies.

A substantial amount of empirical research supports the AAS/aggression relationship. For instance, AAS users report higher levels of anger-arousal and hostile outlook than a group that never used AAS (Lefavi, Reeve, & Newland, 1990). Interestingly, data collected from former AAS users was not reported, so it is uncertain if they differed reliably from either group. AAS users exhibit increased instances of mood disorder (Pope & Katz, 1994), higher scores on aggression scales on personality measures (Galligani, Renck, & Hansen, 1996; Yates, Perry, & Murray, 1992) and measures of mood (Bond, Choi, & Pope, 1995). Nonetheless, as with the T/aggression relationship, findings of reliable differences in psychometrically assessed psychological characteristics between AAS users and non-users are not universal (e.g., Malone, Dimeff, Lombardo, & Sample, 1995; Swanson, 1989).

Several case studies (e.g., Pope & Katz, 1990) and retrospective evaluations of forensic records (e.g., Thilbin, Kristiansson, & Rajs, 1997) have also reported associations between AAS and aggression or other psychopathology. However, as noted previously, generalizing from case study data or criminal index cases to the larger population is, at best, a tenuous proposition.

The majority of the empirical and case studies suffer from methodological flaws, such as inconsistent operationalizations of aggression and differing psychometric measures (Bahrke, Yesalis, & Wright, 1996), making comparisons across studies difficult. Most rely exclusively on self-report measures of aggression, a method susceptible to several sources of bias. And, as mentioned earlier, inferring causation using such data is problematic in that AAS use is not randomly distributed in the population. The choice to use AAS, potentially at high doses, is likely to be confounded with a number of predisposing individual differences. For example, current or past AAS users might value aggression and consider aggressive responding a desirable outcome.

Ultimately, the data are largely inconsistent and inconclusive (Uzych, 1992) and a causal relationship between AAS use and aggression has not been established (Isacsson & Bergman, 1993)....

the rest of the article
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...ression-01.htm

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

You are obviously in a dream world gr81. You attack me "again" and have 0 medical facts to back you up, and now you get personal. I do not care if you want to lick the boots of donut; as for any intelligent discussion, you are too set in you're pseudoscience ilk to listen. I have explained the facts over and over again and all you want to do is spit in the face of medical fact.....peace
I love it you're only valid point is a term (roid rage) I never used that term. I just commented on it .....If you like I will call it aggression.....there do you still want to tell me the PDR is only an opinion.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardTrainer

Users on this board seem to quickly slander you if you regard one scientific fact/study which "attacks" steroids and then they quote another person/doctors study that "defends" them, end of the day most users will go with the "defence" study as they have biased views on their use.

Some people on this site pick and chose what medical facts they want to believe (most that have no scientific credence). They are like a Christian who cheats on his wife but believes he still is a holy man. It is the way of the lazy and a tool for those who only want to prove their point, but not prove what is true.

Posted by: gr81

zero mediocal facts? what is the article I JUST posted, which, btw is authored by a PhD, did you even read it? I am too set in my ways to listen to what, you ain't saying shit. Where are your studies and articles backin' your claims since you keep mentioning every post that I need an source, where are yours I say? In fact what are your claims even? Do you even know what your arguing about, for all you know if you pulled your 33 lb head out of your candy ass you might see things logically, but probably not. you keep saying the same shit to no end, but you aren't actually saying anything except "medical fact' and "intelligent discussion". I am ready to debate issues, not hop on and off this merry-go-round with you about who knows what. Either state your belief and sustain it with some factual information or stop posting like you actually impress the gr81. jesus christ son get serious or shut your little lips

Posted by: gr81

Quote:

3. You posted ( as you said) 1 doctors study/opinion, which is hardly medical fact. Just one mans opinion and very far from scientific fact.

Hey guess what, thats 1 more than you have posted. And if one man's opinion is far from medical fact as you put it, than what makes your opinion anymore valid? You certainly have provided nothing but opinions in this thread..

Quote:

well human psychology and physiology is much more complex than supervisional deduction. you can't simply just say, well that makes sense so it must be true. Its not that simple, there are a million things to take into consideration.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

zero mediocal facts? what is the article I JUST posted, which, btw is authored by a PhD, did you even read it? I am too set in my ways to listen to what, you ain't saying shit. Where are your studies and articles backin' your claims since you keep mentioning every post that I need an source, where are yours I say? In fact what are your claims even? Do you even know what your arguing about, for all you know if you pulled your 33 lb head out of your candy ass you might see things logically, but probably not. you keep saying the same shit to no end, but you aren't actually saying anything except "medical fact' and "intelligent discussion". I am ready to debate issues, not hop on and off this merry-go-round with you about who knows what. Either state your belief and sustain it with some factual information or stop posting like you actually impress the gr81. jesus christ son get serious or shut your little lips

Look bro you can post crap all day ( by an assistant), but you must be clear how exactly you disagree with the PDR. The main thing I want to know is whats you're point. You seem to fade in and out, so just say it in black and white. How exactly do you disagree with the PDR ....please don't post something you didn't write yourself.
All I said was that the PDR states that testosterone has a side effect of added aggression.....so tell me how is the PDR wrong...you see for the third time it's not my opinion but commonplace medical fact. So tell me where you differ with the PDR, and why.

Posted by: gr81

Quote:

I see you still are too lazy to back up you're opinion with any legitimate data...

Quote:

please don't post something you didn't write yourself.

well do we see anything that is hypocritical here? hhmmmmm..first you say that I don't back anything up with facts, so I print something out and you say not to post anything I didn't write, what the hell is wrong with you.

[/QUOTE]All I said was that the PDR states that testosterone has a side effect of added aggression.....so tell me how is the PDR wrong...you see for the third time it's not my opinion but commonplace medical fact. So tell me where you differ with the PDR, and why.
[QUOTE]

dude seriously you are not even paying attention, I already went over this twice dammit. I already agreed there is a correlation, did I not? But the correlation is unlcear, no one can pinpoint exactly what it means in relation to human bahavior, so to say that roid rage is a side effect of AAS use is inconslusive and insufficient. There are too many factors varying including what type of people even choose to use AAS in the first place, what possible underlying psychological issues a person may have when overt instances of aggression occur, what even increased aggression means in terms of psychiatric behavior and what type of doses propegate supposed aggression. I could go on and on and on, but your probably not even listening. My point is to say that aggression or roid rage is a definate problematic side effect of AAS would mean that every sinlge person exogenously using AAS would theoretically have to experience this, and if not what determines who exeriences and who doesn't, then we have to go into why and what factors influence that, and so on and so on, so to make a universal statement as you are is not condusive to the conversation now is it. Aggression is linked with a higher T level, but the correlation is not fully understood so any further unsubstantiated claims are purely speculation. are you satisfied, do you see my point?

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

Ok lets start this over, All I said was that steroids can have a side effect of added aggression. I did'nt say ALL steroids, or that EVERYONE responded the same way. Is that clear now?

Posted by: gr81

you quoted the wrong message,that was from a numerb of posts ago. Did you even read the response I gave you answering yrou question? This discussion (if you want to call it that) has nothing to do with the plane of the earth btw. you say medical science, pal medical science concludes that the correlation between aggression and test is murky and you can't prove otherwise. do me a favor and read my last post, find out what you disagree with specifically, and refute it. Think you can handle actually debating an issue and not just posturing around it like a pompous ass? be specific

Posted by: TJ Cline

Correlation??? OMG it is a documented medical fact and you agree there is a correlation.....wow...

Its so funny that you have spent all this time arguing with me over nothing. If you chose to disregard time tested facts in the PDR ( and other widely respected publications) regarding drugs, then have at it. I just don't know what you're problem is and at this point I don't care. Pick and chose what you want to believe...But when you're Doctor tells you not to take 100 aspirin a day, you tell him there is a correlation but that the jury is still out.

Posted by: Ryan-Boro

How Come Every Question Someone Posts In Here, Always Ends Up In A Big Argument Tha Has Fuck All To Do With The Q?

Posted by: Mudge

Hey Foreman, who puts out PDRs - PUBLISHERS. My PDR has no such data and it is about 2 years old.

You need to chill out and stop thinking everyone is out to cut your nuts off, this is the damn internet. RELAX. Nobody is attacking you just because we disagree with your 1960s cycling theories.

And stop discounting the STUDY I posted while you posted NOTHING.

The PDR is a reference, not a bible. They are outdated by the time they hit print, and they are not entirely factual, and nor do they agree with one another. However it is probably wise of them to print even theoretical side effects so long as it doesn't get them sued for doing so (by attacking brands or copyrighted drugs without data).

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan-Boro

How Come Every Question Someone Posts In Here, Always Ends Up In A Big Argument Tha Has Fuck All To Do With The Q?

We are talking about myths, which is what the topic is.

Posted by: musclepump

This topic is very much about myths now

Posted by: brogers

From the 1996 NEJM study of men given 600mg of Testosterone Enathate...

"Neither mood nor behavior was altered in any group."

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/335/1/1

Posted by: Prince

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

My favorite is, "Steroids will make your testictles shrivel away"

that is not really a myth, there is some truth to that one.

my favorite is steroids cause brain tumors/cancer, the only reason people say that one is because Lyle Alzado said they caused his.

Posted by: Mudge

Yep, testicular atrophy is avoidable but it can happen to many.

Posted by: musclepump

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Yep, testicular atrophy is avoidable but it can happen to many.

But they generally come back over time

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Hey Foreman, who puts out PDRs - PUBLISHERS. My PDR has no such data and it is about 2 years old.

You need to chill out and stop thinking everyone is out to cut your nuts off, this is the damn internet. RELAX. Nobody is attacking you just because we disagree with your 1960s cycling theories.

And stop discounting the STUDY I posted while you posted NOTHING.

The PDR is a reference, not a bible. They are outdated by the time they hit print, and they are not entirely factual, and nor do they agree with one another. However it is probably wise of them to print even theoretical side effects so long as it doesn't get them sued for doing so (by attacking brands or copyrighted drugs without data).

Sorry Mudge but aggression is in the PDR ( as well as many other publications) as a side effect to testosterone. You do need a real PDR bro, not one the public can pick up at Boarders books. Next time you are in the hospital ask the Doctors or Nurses if you can
"Please " use their PDR....
I just accept that you don't give a crap about medical facts.....

I would love to see this dude when he needs medical help or he will die.....then the truth will come out and the silly studies he posts will be thrown away.

Posted by: Mudge

Silly studies, nice retort.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Silly studies, nice retort.

Sorry bro you're the one who is silly.....actually just sad. When you come in here and make fun of proven Medical science and then post 1 report to show the entire medical community is wrong....thats just pathetic

And yes I know that every scientist doesn't agree that steroids cause aggression.

Posted by: SJ69

Anyone remember when the "medical community" put out research claiming AAS had no performance enhancing effects?

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJ69

Anyone remember when the "medical community" put out research claiming AAS had no performance enhancing effects?

I remember them saying it in the doctors office and on TV, but I never saw it on any lables or in any Books.

Posted by: Mudge

Yep. They also told us to eat margarine.

Like other sciences, they are sometimes wrong.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Yep. They also told us to eat margarine.

Like other sciences, they are sometimes wrong.

I agree they sure are, but not nearly as much as we are when it comes to prescription medicine.

Posted by: musclepump

Pharmacy errors kill 7,000 people a year. Steroids kill...

I think I make this case far too often.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

Pharmacy errors kill 7,000 people a year. Steroids kill...

I think I make this case far too often.

And how many people kill them selfs by not following the directions of their Doctors when it comes to taking there medication..

Posted by: musclepump

A number in addition to that 7,000.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

Pharmacy errors kill 7,000 people a year. Steroids kill...

I think I make this case far too often.

try to find one medical study that directly links the usage of anabolic or androgenic steroids to a death.

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

A number in addition to that 7,000.

94% of all drug related deaths in America are due to Alcohol and tobacco, 4 % due to prescription drugs ( some mistakes, some suicide, some people abusing) and only 1 % caused by narcotic's. The bottom line is if you are going to take any drug it better be an illegal narcotic!

Posted by: musclepump

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

try to find one medical study that directly links the usage of anabolic or androgenic steroids to a death.

That's my point. I've posted several facts about how many different things kill X number of people, and I always contrast it to the fact that steroids haven't been proven to kill a single individual.

Posted by: seven11

will make your heart explode
damages your brain
once u'll stop it will all into fat and ull look scary with skin hanging
ull go crazy

Posted by: TJ Cline

My new favorite is steroids give boxers a great chin and that they destroy the spinal chord.

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Best Steroid myths?

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