Originally Posted by furion joe

Simple carb sources digest/absorb quickly and as such cause a rapid rise in insulin levels – aka “the spike.” The result of fast digesting carb sources (post workout) is an increase in protein synthesis (provided that you take in protein pwo), the replenishment of glycogen stores/levels, and the initiation of the recovery process.

Complex carbs such as oats elicit a smaller insulin release and tend to be absorbed slower than those of the simple kind. Complex carbs are fine after training, but overall, simple carbs combined with a fast digesting protein (such as egg whites or whey protein) is an ideal way to take advantage of the pwo window of opportunity. IMO…

Some people use the pwo spike while others do not. The best way to find out if this method works for you is to try it and see what happens.

If you are trying to gain mass or lose fat, pwo carbs are important for the reasons mentioned above. The best post workout/cardio carb source is the one that works for you. I like to use white rice +/- raisins (with whey), and sometimes maltodextrin or dextrose, while others might like to use oats, white bread, bagels, potatoes, beans, etc.

The “magic bullet” resides in your personal preference – what works – what gives you the best results.

Also, if you are doing your cardio sessions separately from your workouts, it would be a better idea to use a complex carb source afterwards. Or taking in a pro/fat meal to ensure that insulin levels are kept under control and the "fat burning mode" is maintained and extended for a longer period of time. All depends on your goals...

Originally Posted by madds

Just buy some dextrose. Failing to get your hands on some of that, just use simple sugar. I don't understand how people can not simple carbs. I have stated numerous times on this site the benefit of a PWO shake containing 40-50g protein, 40-200g of dextrose, 5g creatine and 10-20g glutamine. Thats the only way to go I feel. Ive tried the oat/protein PWO mix (thumbs down), Ive tried just protein (huge thumbs down) and I will never ever do another weights session without drinking that PWO drink.

Originally Posted by grant

Nicely said--I agree

Originally Posted by grant

Why exactly?, do you feel your muscles are saturated with carbohydrate? Better recovery? Interested in hearing the differences

Originally Posted by cpush

now my next question, are there good/bad simple carbs or sugars? Does it matter where they come from? Obviously an Apple or some of the better fruits would be a good source. But is it important that I don't take in "crappy" simple sugars? Example being my little brother's cereal...

Originally Posted by cpush

thanks guys, great info! Now I'm going to throw another one at you. Since I'm not a serious BB I don't drink shakes or powder. Usually after a workout I shower, then eat. Is it ok if I wait this long if I'm not looking to build mass? I usually plan my workout so my meal afterward falls into the 3-3.5 hr schedule with my other six meals. Should I still be concerned with the contents of this meal if it is not IMMEDIATELY after the workout? This is usually my fourth meal of the day and is consumed approx. 30 minutes after the workout.

ps since no powder; I have no whey. what would be a good (food)protein alternative pwo?

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

Your body takes a minumum amount of time to digest the PWS anyway...

The time to digest oats (which have usually been processed through a blender)
Is what??? A few minutes more?

Originally Posted by furion joe

Thanks, I appreciate that!





I know this question wasn’t directed at me but I would like to take the opportunity to respond by giving my account of how I arrived at my current method of pwo nutrition.

Trough trial and error, I have found that a pwo meal is better for me in terms of recovery and I think that’s a very important variable in my bodybuilding program. Recuperation, IMHO, is just as important as training and nutrition.

Early on, I used to use tuna, brown rice, and broccoli for my pwo meal. Little did I know about pwo nutrition at the time, but I did get very good results from this practice.

Well, I changed up on what I was doing because I heard about what everyone else was doing and my understanding of pwo nutrition was evolving - I wanted to try something new. I started using maltodextrin/dextrose and a casein based protein powder pwo; this too, yielded good results. Further along in my nutritional “understanding” I switched to whey protein powder and maltodextrin/dextrose and found that I received similar results. The only problem with this approach was that I felt bloated and mild stomach discomfort for an hour or so after I consumed my pwo shake. This problem was actually two-fold: First, the bloat killed my appetite and the ability to eat another meal within an hour or two after working out; Second (which was the turning point), I still felt drained from training after consuming the pwo shake; it did nothing for my ability to recuperate after working out.

Even though this method wasn't optimal, I followed this type of pwo nutrition for a long time because it was supposed to yield the “best results.” Things changed after I read an article by Chris Aceto. A few months ago in Muscle and Fitness, he had written an article about “Muscle Meals.” One of the meals was for pwo and it included white rice and whey. I decided to go back to what I was doing before the shakes and tried real food again. I noticed (almost immediately) a difference in my ability to recover pwo; within an hour of training, I felt re-energized and my body returned to a ‘normal’ state, as if I just didn’t do something as physically demanding as intense weight training. I was also hungry and able to eat an hour or so after that pwo meal.

Every-body responds differently so it’s always a good idea to experiment.

Originally Posted by grant

Thanks for you response. Quite honestly, your experience has been very similar to my own in that I get better results with a balanced meal over anything like malto or even say a banana.

Aceto has some good stuff, ever read any of his books?

Originally Posted by grant

I've read Championship Bodybuilding (by Aceto) a good all around reference.

As for nutrition and even training I've found some of the discussions on here as well as @ Avant great sources of information. There's a ton of info on a variety of topics everywhere on the net, simply because I think bodybuilders can be an isolated breed in some places.

Originally Posted by grant

I actually have his wife's cookbook too.

Originally Posted by thajeepster

has anyone read "Understanding Bodybuilding, Training and Nutrition" by aceto? Would you recommend it?

Originally Posted by furion joe

I haven’t read it yet, but I will. Get the book if you want; it’s a small price to pay for adding to your base of bodybuilding knowledge.

Originally Posted by Doublebase

I do oats and a scoop of protein.

Originally Posted by cpush

appreciate the responses! so what I've gathered is that basically if you want to gain, take in simple carbs/sugar pwo, and if you want to lose/maintain, take in complex carbs pwo.

now my next question, are there good/bad simple carbs or sugars? Does it matter where they come from? Obviously an Apple or some of the better fruits would be a good source. But is it important that I don't take in "crappy" simple sugars? Example being my little brother's cereal...

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Right after I workout, I take in a tbsp of dextro and a tbsp of malto, with 50g of whey.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

hold on a sec: here's my take;
I am in the middle of a cutting phase for a contest. I do this and have had great success with it. Right after I workout, I take in a tbsp of dextro and a tbsp of malto, with 50g of whey. Shortly after that (about an hour later) I'll take in another 25g of whey and 1 cup of Old Fashioned oats with some flax mixed in for good measure. This works for me and I am only allowed 3 carb meals per day-an apple and some protein at 4am for quick energy before my workout, my above mentioned pw drink and the one hour later meal. I have lost an average of 1.5 to 2 lbs a week, and my strength is keeping up with the diet.

Originally Posted by grant

And how many carbs are in 1 tbsp malt and 1 tbsp dext?

Thanks