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Need opinions on what to have...

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Posted by: r0dxx

I did a really clean cut this summer and got down to 7% bf, and now I'm doing a really really slow clean bulk over the fall. My problem is school is starting next tuesday and my schedule is jacked up.

I will probally have breakfast at 8am... Oats/eggs

and then I have to eat again around 11pm

But my class schedule sucks...I have one class from 930-1045 and then my next class is 11-12:15, I have 15min only problem is the class is at another whole section of the campus and will probally have to drive because its like a 10 min walk ATLEAST.

So basically I need to eat something quick right before this class. Then at 12:15 i leave and will be home around 12:45 to eat lunch. I really just need something to keep me anabolic and satisfied until lunch. I was thinking of buying those protein shakes in cans and just chug one as I'm driving to the class? Anyone have any of those they recommend? Is it neccessary to have fat/carb with it, or does it not matter if lunch will be following it within 2 hours.

I just dont wanna ruin my progress now because of this. I use to just eat a trioplex bar real quick last semester in the winter, and thats when I bulked like a pig. My stomach got too big, so I really wanna stay away from shit like that.

Posted by: XcelKrush

Make a shake with some whey, oats, pb, banana, etc. and keep it on ice in your car.

Posted by: r0dxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by XcelKrush

Make a shake with some whey, oats, pb, banana, etc. and keep it on ice in your car.

Hmmm it will stay fresh? Its like 100 degrees here right now

Also wont the milk go bad, and I thought you cant keep whey mixed for long periods of time?

Posted by: ReelBigFish

get a cooler and some of those freezer packs.

Posted by: Psycho Dad

Quit school and keep lifting. Size is better then any education. Think about it. Next summer comes and your on the beach. Would you rather sport good grades or bigger biceps.
Quit school now and liftundefined

Posted by: BulkMeUp

Put dry powders in a leakproof container. Ground oats+whey+flax meal+milk powder. Add water and shake vigorously for a several seconds. Let it stand for a while (i usually wait 30-60 mins) to soften the oats and then drink. It will make a grainy shake, but you will get all your macros.

Posted by: r0dxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

Quit school and keep lifting. Size is better then any education. Think about it. Next summer comes and your on the beach. Would you rather sport good grades or bigger biceps.
Quit school now and liftundefined

The said thing is my answer would be bigger biceps

Posted by: r0dxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

Put dry powders in a leakproof container. Ground oats+whey+flax meal+milk powder. Add water and shake vigorously for a several seconds. Let it stand for a while (i usually wait 30-60 mins) to soften the oats and then drink. It will make a grainy shake, but you will get all your macros.

Doesn't water make the whey digest really fast though?

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0dxx

Doesn't water make the whey digest really fast though?

No. Not when you mix it with all those foods as well - as soon as you add anything solid like oats, flax, fruit to the whey powder then you will slow it's digestive speed.

Posted by: r0dxx

I know this sounds kinda dumb but it would be very convient...

Do you think it would be ok if i bought a store brand protein drink in a can? I see them sold at my local nutrition store. Usually have like 35g protein and usually very good stats. Alot better then any bars...

If I just drank this alone and then ate like 2 hours later, would that be ok to hold me over? Or is it really pointless to have protein by itself with no carb or fat with it?

Posted by: ReelBigFish

if you want to pay the price for them..go for it. As long as they are loaded with sugar and crappy stuff. There is no prob. with having protein by itself but carbs have a protein sparing effect. So if your body is needing energy, it may turn some of the protein into glucose.

Posted by: r0dxx

I was planning on this...

8am - 1 cup oats, 6 egg beaters, 1 slice ff cheese
11am - http://www.enutrition.com/abbpuproshch.html (the one I got has 1g sugar) I get them pretty cheap, how does the ingredients look?
12:45pm - lunch (ezekial bread, 1 can tuna, 1 tbsp olive oil)

then the rest of my day is normal...how does that look?

it's only tue/thur I got to do this... I hope it doesnt hinder my gains

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0dxx

I was planning on this...

8am - 1 cup oats, 6 egg beaters, 1 slice ff cheese
11am - http://www.enutrition.com/abbpuproshch.html (the one I got has 1g sugar) I get them pretty cheap, how does the ingredients look?
12:45pm - lunch (ezekial bread, 1 can tuna, 1 tbsp olive oil)

then the rest of my day is normal...how does that look?

it's only tue/thur I got to do this... I hope it doesnt hinder my gains

Personally, I would go for a 'real food' option (and something a little larger) - how long does it take to eat an apple as well as drinking a shake? And how long does it take to chow down on a home-made protein bar?

But if you wanted a 'pure protein hit' then why not just take a scoop of whey in a shaker bottle? All you would have to do is add water and it would be just as convenient as the can option only a lot cheaper!

ps: I doubt that this little difference will ruin your gains. Your body is much more adaptive than that.

pss: add vegetables to your lunch....

psss:... and some healthy fats to your breakfast.

Posted by: r0dxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

ps: I doubt that this little difference will ruin your gains. Your body is much more adaptive than that.

pss: add vegetables to your lunch....

psss:... and some healthy fats to your breakfast.

Thanks for the great response. I will add some veggies to my lunch...but I was under the knowledge that adding fat to your breakfast was bad because it slows down the protein absorption? I thought in the AM after a long nights fast you want the protein to digest quickly? Would 1 tbsp of natty pb ok, if im also having 2 tbsp at night?

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0dxx

Thanks for the great response. I will add some veggies to my lunch...but I was under the knowledge that adding fat to your breakfast was bad because it slows down the protein absorption?

Well - a few issues:
1. if you were REALLY concerned with speed of protein absorption you would be having whey. Actually, a hydrolysed whey... And you would not have eaten anything for 12 hours prior to this... Egg whites are not really all that rapidly digested...

2. If you were really concerned with digestion you would not be having ANYTHING with that either - anything you add will decrease the speed of digestion - so the oats will decrease digestion speed... so will the cheese..

3. Why do you NEED the protein to be really rapidly absorbed? If you are simply going to uni and sitting down for the next 3 hrs will the 30 minutes difference in peak blood amino acid concentrations really make a difference?

Sure, if you were getting up and training 30 minutes after this meal then you certainly would want to aviod fats (and you would certainly want a more rapidly digesting carb and protein source such as whey + banana or even some dex/malto if you were so inclined)... But in the case of a normal breakfast then the fats are actually beneficial. It helps to keep your blood glucose levels more steady, and therefore helps control hunger/satiety and energy for the rest of the day...

Quote:

I thought in the AM after a long nights fast you want the protein to digest quickly?

In all honestly, this is like the "don't have carbs at night" debate.... Lots of 'myth' but no real evidence for the suggestion.

As I said before, it does not really matter unless:
a. you are getting up to do exercise very early
b. you have been fasting for MANY hours

You need to seriously ask yourself if the hype is needed.... Think about it:
- how long are you 'fasting'? 8 to 9 hrs? Maybe 10?
And what is your last meal - caesin and a fat? Which would mean you would still be using/digesting/metabolising that meal ~6-7 hrs later... Which would mean it would be about 2-3 hrs TOPS without a direct entry of protein into your blood right?
And during that time you would be doing what? Sleeping?

So can you honestly say that this is going to be a HIGHLY catabolic situation where you have to, without question, quickly replenish your muscle protein stores so you don't shrink?? (the answer is No...)

Quote:

Would 1 tbsp of natty pb ok, if im also having 2 tbsp at night?

Well - there are healthier fat sources.... Things with omega-3 in them such as fish oils, linseeds, walnuts are better... as are the fats that are higher in mono-unsaturated fats such as olive oil and avocado. This is because 3 tbs of peanut butter is a lot of PB - which has a lot of omega-6 fats in it... Which is likely to worsen the omega-3 : omega-6 ratio that is present in most diets...

Also - if you have a set calorie intake you shouldn't just 'add' the fat to the first meal - as it will alter your calories. So you need to take them from a meal that has lots of fat... So why not just take out one of the Tbs from your last meal and add it to breakfast?

Posted by: r0dxx

WOW. You coulda charged me 20.00 for that response, soo damn informative. I just learned soo much thank you!! I really appreciate it.

My usual breakfast is 3/4 cup oats, 1 scoop whey, 1 cup skim chug and out the door. If I have more time then its 3/4 cups oats, 1 cup skim, and 6 egg beaters with ff cheese.

Today I had the breakfast shake, and drank that protein drink at 11 before my second class and 1hr 15min later on my drive home I was starving. VERY HUNGRY

I guess I gotta try to figure out an alternative

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0dxx

WOW. You coulda charged me 20.00 for that response, soo damn informative. I just learned soo much thank you!! I really appreciate it.

You're welcome... {And, you're right - normally I would have charged... Although the information I would have given would have been a little more...

}

Quote:

My usual breakfast is 3/4 cup oats, 1 scoop whey, 1 cup skim chug and out the door. If I have more time then its 3/4 cups oats, 1 cup skim, and 6 egg beaters with ff cheese...

Today I had the breakfast shake, and drank that protein drink at 11 before my second class and 1hr 15min later on my drive home I was starving. VERY HUNGRY

I guess I gotta try to figure out an alternative

Real food - helps a lot in the hunger department.

Posted by: r0dxx

Alright here is my question. This is only two days a week, I'm going to do this...

Which option is better? For my meal at school when I literally have less then 5 minutes.

Breakfast at 8am (Im going to make it bigger)

1 cup oats instead of 3/4, 4 egg whites, 1 scoop whey in oats

Snack (Which would be better, I know bars suck but really my only option)

ON Protein Bar
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/proteinbar.html
with 1/4 cup almonds

or

ELEV8ME BAR
http://www.prosnack.com/info2.htm
by itself...

or

omega 3 protein bar
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pbl/pure.html
(The 4g sugar kinda scares me though, im thinking the 11g fiber might help keep me full til 1pm, and the carbs are from brown rice syrup, is that ok?)

or any other bar someone can recommend, im on a clean bulk and want to keep it clean, this is only twice a week i hope it doesnt hurt me much

lunch 1pm: 3 slices ezekial, 1 can chunk light tuna, 1/2tbsp olive oil

So basically I just need sumtin to hold me over between 11-1...Anyone have an idea of any bar that I can eat twice a week that won't really hurt my bf gains? Bar is really the only thing I can eat real quick while the 4min im walking to my class.

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0dxx

1 cup oats instead of 3/4, 4 egg whites, 1 scoop whey in oats

add fats

Quote:

Snack (Which would be better, I know bars suck but really my only option)

ON Protein Bar
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/proteinbar.html
with 1/4 cup almonds

This is a really bad bar. Really bad. You would be better off chewing an old leather jacket.

Quote:

ELEV8ME BAR
http://www.prosnack.com/info2.htm
by itself...

Better than the last... And it would depend on which one you picked.. But they would be really high in terms of GI (dates + whey =

) and would not leave you very satisfied... And they are fairly small too - not really anything close to being enough to 'bulk' with.

Quote:

omega 3 protein bar
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pbl/pure.html
(The 4g sugar kinda scares me though, im thinking the 11g fiber might help keep me full til 1pm, and the carbs are from brown rice syrup, is that ok?)

Better than the first choice... Brown rice syrup is crap though (how do I say "crap" more politely)?

Once again, this is probably not enough and it is not likely to fill you up either.

So all are pretty poor choices.

Why not just make a home made one and take it with you?? It is really not that hard.

oats
whey
peanut butter
apple sauce
cinnamon
vanilla extract
egg whites

mix.
bake.
store.
take.

Either that or take a home made meal replacement shake - ground oats + whey + skim milk powder + a few walnuts = a 3 second meal. If you wanted it to fill you up add some fibre as well (wheat bran or psyllium husks would do the job). Sure, not the tastiest thing in the world, but it gets the job done.

Quote:

any other bar someone can recommend, im on a clean bulk and want to keep it clean, this is only twice a week i hope it doesnt hurt me much

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/cj/tri.html

These are better.

And stop getting yourself all worked up about it. It is not the end of the world - twice a week is nothing. But you need to FEED yourself and those other bars are crap. Have a tri-o-plex if you much have a bar. These are not likely to hurt your gains at all...

Quote:

lunch 1pm: 3 slices ezekial, 1 can chunk light tuna, 1/2tbsp olive oil

Add vegetables! (again!!!).

And there are plenty of things you can eat quickly in 4 minutes - you just don't want to be bothered to make and pack them!

Posted by: r0dxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

WOW! I went to the store today and had a banana/peanut butter one today and I thought it was great. Texture/taste was great. The ingredients looked pretty solid also. The only thing that scared me was 15g+ fat, and 15g sugar. But I think the sugar is coming from the fruit?

Anyways I had it, and it actually kept me full for 3 hours!

So you think these are fine two days a week? Trying to keep the bulk real clean.

Posted by: CowPimp

Hey Emma, you say you think that a quicker absorbing protein source should be downed first thing in the AM if you're going to workout shortly thereafter.

How necessary do you think this is? Are there actually studies supporting such a theory, or is it just that?

My breakfast is typically the following: 2 eggs, 2 whites, 50g hemp or pumpkin seed flax cereal, 3oz milk, 1 cup green tea, 1 multivitamin+mineral. It's about 500 calories.

I get up at 10, immediately toss down this meal, and I'm at the gym by 11 or a few minutes before. I never really feel tired, save for some slight grogginess that goes away once I start my mild cardio warmup.

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0dxx

WOW! I went to the store today and had a banana/peanut butter one.... The ingredients looked pretty solid.

Which is whey they are better than most bars. Ingredient list doesn't contain 1000 and 1 things with numbers after it.

Quote:

The only thing that scared me was 15g+ fat, and 15g sugar. But I think the sugar is coming from the fruit?

Don't worry about the fat - it is mostly from peanut butter and peanut oil and this level (15g) is fine for someone your size.

The sugar is mostly from the fruit and is not a problem either - it is 15g, which in the grand scheme of things is going to contribute a whole 60 calories to your daily intake.

If you are concerned you could look at the other products here to see if any of them suit what you want better.

Quote:

Anyways I had it, and it actually kept me full for 3 hours!

Good... unless you needed to eat again, in which case that might have been bad... but anyway...

Quote:

So you think these are fine two days a week? Trying to keep the bulk real clean.

They are fine. But trying to keep the bulk 'too clean' will not benefit you in any way - all you will do is stagnate. You have to add calories, and no matter what you do, some of those calories will be taken up by your fat.

You will probably cause yourself more damage by getting so worked up over a bar! Just relax and let things happen.

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Hey Emma, you say you think that a quicker absorbing protein source should be downed first thing in the AM if you're going to workout shortly thereafter.

How necessary do you think this is? Are there actually studies supporting such a theory, or is it just that?

The type of situation I am talking of in terms of rapidly digested proteins and early morning workouts is when you basically do not have time for a good meal ~2 hrs prior to training. eg: You need to be out very early in the morning, so you wake up at 5am and you are in the gym by 6am.

The reason being is that if you have had no food for 8 hrs - which means you have low blood glucose levels AND low blood amino acid levels.

In a normal situation, just having a good meal for breakfast is the best thing to do. The food will start to be digested pretty quickly and will continue to digest while you shower/dress and prepare for the day - so the fact that it takes 30 minutes longer than whey in terms of peak amino-acid contentration will not have any negative impact.

However, if you are to go and train immediately, it means you are in essense, training is a half-fasted state (low blood glucose and low amino acids).

As you know, one of the most important factors for triggering an anabolic response to a workout is a sufficient pre-workout meal, as it means you have a good level of circulating amino acids and glucose available during your workout. As that article you linked to in your other thread stated, pre-workout nutrition is vital (you can look into it in this article Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206 - it is pretty good).

So, without a good level of protein and carbs in your blood you are going to get a really negative response from your training (sky-high cortisol levels, decreased intensity during train due to low energy, increased amino acid utilisation for energy due to low glycogen stores etc) and you end up getting an increased catabolic response during training and a decreased anabolic response post-workout.

Therefore, in these situations, having a more rapidly digestable meal before training (eg: whey + a low fibre/low fat carb source such as some milk or yoghurt and ) and even having a 'during workout' protein/carb drink is going to ensure you get your blood glucose/amino acid concentrations up to good levels.

Quote:

My breakfast is typically the following: 2 eggs, 2 whites, 50g hemp or pumpkin seed flax cereal, 3oz milk, 1 cup green tea, 1 multivitamin+mineral. It's about 500 calories.

I get up at 10, immediately toss down this meal, and I'm at the gym by 11 or a few minutes before. I never really feel tired, save for some slight grogginess that goes away once I start my mild cardio warmup.

Firstly - you get up at 10!!

Geezz boy, do you work evening shifts or something? I've already been up for 5 hrs by then!

Ok - anyway - as to whether or not this is going to be optimal is really dependant on what exactly you do and what you are trying to achieve...

If you are looking for maximal anabolic responses (and strength gains) then I would be concerned at both that the speed at which the meal will be absorbed and the level of glucose available during training.

Due to the level of fat (10g from the eggs + what ever you are gettin from the flax cereal), the fibre and the source of the protein (whole eggs) it might be that this meal may not get those amino acids into your blood at sufficient levels for your training session (or at least the beginning of the session)... Also, this meal does not look to have a great deal of easily digestable glucose in it - which would mean that, especially if you were doing glucose dependant training, your body may resort to using what amino acids are in the blood for energy...

So I would consider swapping things around a little - adding more easily digested protein and carbs and leaving the fats for later meals (or at least decreasing it to <10g).

I would consider increasing the milk, adding a little whey (or at least taking out the yolks of the eggs) and decreasing the fibre slightly by using a more easily digestable carb (eg: a ripe banana).

But if it is working for you and you feel comfortable with it, then stick to it...

Posted by: CowPimp

Yeah, I work the evening shift from 2-10:30PM. It works for taking a class or two before work if I need.

So, basically you are saying that if I don't feel like crap (Energized enough to workout), then that meal is probably fine?

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

So, basically you are saying that if I don't feel like crap (Energized enough to workout), then that meal is probably fine?

Well - not really, because you can feel fine and not have good blood glucose/amino acid levels and you can feel fine and be performing sub-optimally....

But if you feel as though it is working well enough for you and your current goals, and you don't want to try the alternative for what ever reasons (and these can/are probably perfectly legitamate reasons), and you are not going backwards in your training... Then you are fine just sticking to what is working for you!

(ie: if it ain't broke...)

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Yeah, I gotcha. I don't particularly like having whey for breakfast. That's really the only thing. Plus, I really like this meal. It's one of my favorites. I suppose that's not reason enough to hinder my training, but now I have something to look at when I go back to trying to gain a little mass at some point.

I don't think I am performing below optimum levels; I used to train in the evening and I suddently jumped to lifting in the mornings when I got my current job without any loss is size, strength, energy, etc. In fact, I have made far more gains since I have been training in the morning. I don't really think this has to do with the time as train as much as the way I train.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will at least give your suggestions a shot and see if it makes any kind of difference once I get back onto a normal training schedule.

Posted by: r0dxx

Emma, do you think the labels are currently correct? I've read 100's of things about false claims, but did they fix it?

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0dxx

Emma, do you think the labels are currently correct? I've read 100's of things about false claims, but did they fix it?

Yes (as far as I am aware) the labels are now correct... You can read the letter here.

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