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back muscles

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Posted by: LexusGS

I been working on my back and my lats are coming out good, or at least the outer part of the back is looking good, but when it comes to the inner part, its not looking so well.

If it's alright with P-funk, I used your picture to demonstrate my problem area, because you got a great back man.

All the muscles inside the circle is what I need to build, but what I've been doing so far just isnt working good for me.
I do this on my back days,
wide grip pull ups
bent over rows 3 sets of about 10 or more
and I normally don't do shoulder shrugs, but every once in a while I throw them in.
Please explain to me what I'm doing wrong.
Thanks for the help guys.



Posted by: ihateschoolmt

You know how you can't target inner chest? Same with back.



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

That's odd. I thought the back was made up of many, many muscles, thus allowing you to target them. You can target the lower and upper back can't you?



Posted by: LexusGS

i dont know what u mean by that squagg, but i'm sure theres some way to do them.



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Well you can't isolate the different parts of the chest because there really aren't many separate muscles to be worked (inner and outer are two different parts of the same muscle). I just thought that the back was much more complex and had many more muscles, thus allowing you to target inner muscles and not outer muscles and vice versa.



Posted by: LexusGS

that's what I though, and still do believe so.



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Thinking about it a little more (I tend to miss the obvious so bear with me), it is made up of many muscles, but I don't think you can make the inner and outer ones work independently of one another.



Posted by: MyK

deadlifts deadlifts deadlifts.

its funny you posted this because like 1 hour ago I was looking in the mirror at my back, and I have the exact opposite problem. those muscles that run next to my spine are good, but my lats are so weak and i hammer them every week!! it may be a genetic thing



Posted by: MyK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin
That's odd. I thought the back was made up of many, many muscles, thus allowing you to target them. You can target the lower and upper back can't you?
I always thought so too!



Posted by: Spitfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt
You know how you can't target inner chest? Same with back.
Sorry man I call bull shit on this one.
Dont let anyone tell you you cant target inner pec minors. Granted you cant just work them alone (I dont know why you would want to anyway) but flies and bench work completely different parts of your chest. Cable Flies/inner Bench/outer and delts.



Posted by: Spitfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin
Well you can't isolate the different parts of the chest because there really aren't many separate muscles to be worked (inner and outer are two different parts of the same muscle). I just thought that the back was much more complex and had many more muscles, thus allowing you to target inner muscles and not outer muscles and vice versa.
anything from hand position to angle of movement to angle of you elbows will dictate where and how muscles will react.



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

So, it IS possible to target several different parts of your back? Just clarifying.



Posted by: Spitfire

anyway to answer you question,
rows (with different grips and angles)
reverse flies while leaning on your stomach on an incline bench
and inderectly, hyperextentions, youd be surprised as to how much of your back it works



Posted by: MuscleM4n

i think that area is called 'the lumber region'.

I lack muscle in this area too thanks for the good thread, interesting read.



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

I think you mean 'lumbar.' I believe that refers to the lower back near the spinal cord, but I could be wrong.



Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusGS
Please explain to me what I'm doing wrong.
Thanks for the help guys.
Your back workout is pretty sparse, but you are missing DEADLIFTS. You aren't going to work that region much with simple rows.

I am probably going to add them in instead of squats pretty soon myself (and go back to leg pressing).

But, I'd also like to see what Patrick has to say



Posted by: soxmuscle

deadlifts instead of squats? why?



Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by soxmuscle
deadlifts instead of squats? why?
I'm not diggin' the squats coupled with my GM work. I either raise my heart rate so high I can't tax my legs, or I rest and put extra strain on my spine. Leg pressing + lunges seemed to be working well for me.



Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudge
I'm not diggin' the squats coupled with my GM work. I either raise my heart rate so high I can't tax my legs, or I rest and put extra strain on my spine. Leg pressing + lunges seemed to be working well for me.
interesting. I might have to look into lunges instead of leg extensions if you read my journal...



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt
You know how you can't target inner chest? Same with back.
Wrong. We are talking separate muscles here. The "outer back" is primarily comprised of your lats and posterior delts when you move up. The "inner back" consists of rhomboids, various trapezius muscles, and of course the erector spinae.

I suggest giving deadlifts a shot.



Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin
That's odd. I thought the back was made up of many, many muscles, thus allowing you to target them. You can target the lower and upper back can't you?
I agree with you on that and with what Cowpimp wrote above.



Posted by: Yanick

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
Wrong. We are talking separate muscles here. The "outer back" is primarily comprised of your lats and posterior delts when you move up. The "inner back" consists of rhomboids, various trapezius muscles, and of course the erector spinae.

I suggest giving deadlifts a shot.
this guy knows what he's talking about

deads will do the trick, heavy and various all the variations of them. i also used to do scapular retractions on a cable row station for the 'inner back' and shrugs laying on a low incline with db's. i don't know how well it worked for me, but you can try and give it a shot.



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

I love deadlifts. Even though my BF is relatively high, you can still tell that my back is solid, and of course, it's from deadlifting. I also love to see the look on others' faces when I tell them that I do SLDLs for my back and show them the exercise. Basically everyone thinks I'm going to break my back, but that's because they know nothing about exercising. Knowledge is power.



Posted by: LexusGS

nice nice, i'm trying those today, and advice on form?



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

For SLDLs? Keep knees slightly bent (not straight; you'll risk hyperextension) the entire time, not allowing them to bend more or less in any part of the movement. Keep your back straight as a board. Look up and keep your head up; the body follows the head. If you do these things, it'll be difficult not to succeed to be quite honest.



Posted by: buildingup

i use a claw like grip on deadlifts but my grip fails before my back, what do i do?



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Mixed grip: one hand overhand, the other underhand. You'd be surprised how much more weight you can use. This will also take your back, rather than your forearms, to the limits of your strength.



Posted by: buildingup

nice one squaggle, will do! man my forearms ache today! should i do db bench press tomorrow or am i ok because forearms arent that worked during bench press?



Posted by: MuscleM4n

Quote:
Originally Posted by buildingup
i use a claw like grip on deadlifts but my grip fails before my back, what do i do?

did you not get my e-mail?



Posted by: buildingup

yep and that confirms it, thanks both muscle and squaggle



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Benching really has little impact on the forearms from my experience. However, the webbing between my thumb and the rest of my hand usually hurts because my gloves are worn out. Otherwise, sore forearms shouldn't affect your benching too much.



Posted by: buildingup

but im going to start dips!



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Again, the weight is basically resting on your hand; it shouldn't make much of a difference. They shouldn't be sore enough that you are unable to do bench or dips.



Posted by: LexusGS

do you know how long it will take for me to start seeing changes in my back after doing deads once a week continually?



Posted by: MuscleM4n

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusGS
do you know how long it will take for me to start seeing changes in my back after doing deads once a week continually?

deads do not directly hypertrophy the back from my experience ...they just make it thicker



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Making it thicker means the muscles are growing, thus hypertrophy. Deadlifts are awesome for improving the back in all kinds of ways. How long it takes to see results depends on your goals, training, diet, and you as an individual.



Posted by: MuscleM4n

what i meant to say that it has made my back thicker but not increased its depth



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Well the shape of your muscles depends on your genetics, not the techniques you use.



Posted by: MuscleM4n

i wasn't referring to its shape.



Posted by: MuscleM4n

Quote:
Originally Posted by buildingup
yep and that confirms it, thanks both muscle and squaggle

ok cool, let me know how you get on next week.



Posted by: Squaggleboggin

If it made your muscles thicker but not deeper, that is shape...



Posted by: min0 lee




Is it just me but I see some butt there.

And what the heck is monkeyman doing there???



Posted by: MuscleM4n

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin
If it made your muscles thicker but not deeper, that is shape...

ok so it is shape

Sorry been a long day and i am tired



Posted by: Lepa

A question on SLDL's, I have heard that elevating your toes an inch or so works the hammies more, gives them a better stretch. Anyone know if it works? I might try it next leg day.



Posted by: MuscleM4n

yes SLDL's trains hamstrings and lower back mainly. Go easy on your first time please mate!


Goodmornings are very good for hamstrings too if done correctly.



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepa
A question on SLDL's, I have heard that elevating your toes an inch or so works the hammies more, gives them a better stretch. Anyone know if it works? I might try it next leg day.
Never heard of such a thing. I'm not going to say, definitively, that it doesn't work. However, I have a hunch that it's bullshit.

I do platform SLDLs from time to time. That is, I do them while standing on a wooden box. This allows me to extend my range of motion further. If anything, I would think that this causes the lower back to do more work...



Posted by: Incognegro

good thread guys. back is my weakest area!


J



Posted by: Lepa

Muscleman its not my first time, SLDL's are part of my leg day. I am just wondering if raising your toes will work the hammies more.

Here is where i read it: http://www.sensiblesoftware.com/arti...Your-Life.html





Posted by: MuscleM4n

oh sorry i misread it!...i was stupid.

Nah that is bollocks!


You think something as simple as that would really govern your gains?



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepa
Muscleman its not my first time, SLDL's are part of my leg day. I am just wondering if raising your toes will work the hammies more.

Here is where i read it: http://www.sensiblesoftware.com/arti...Your-Life.html

Interesting. Give it a shot and see what you think...



Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleM4n
what i meant to say that it has made my back thicker but not increased its depth
Read what you just said there



Posted by: Mudge

I would not personally suggest doing SLDL that way, the foot should be flat on the floor.

If you want to stretch, go stretch. I can feel myself shearing something in my foot already.



Posted by: Yanick

Quote:
Originally Posted by stupid article
The reason this toe-raising technique is so effective for the stiff-legged deadlift comes straight from biomechanics and anatomy.

The stiff-legged deadlift exercise places the most tension on the hamstrings at the bottom, stretched position. Therefore, in order to maximize tension on the hamstrings, we must maximize the stretch on the hamstrings at that point.

In the standard stiff-legged deadlift, this is normally accomplished by simply bending at the hips. But this is not the greatest anatomical stretch that can be put on the hamstring muscles.

As you may or may not know, the muscles of the calves are tied in with the hamstrings. Therefore, placing a stretch on the calves also places more stretch on the hamstrings. This is what the weight plates accomplish - they raise your toes, putting a stretch on the calves, which then puts a greater stretch on your hamstrings.

By stretching the hamstrings at both the hip joint and the knee joint (from stretching the calves), you literally force your hamstrings to activate strongly during the stiff-legged deadlift movement.
now i'm a little foggy today after getting only 3hrs of sleep, but this seems like complete bullshit to me. he uses a couple of big words like dorsiflexion and shit and expects you to just believe his crap.

-the hamstrings and calves are NOT tied together whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean.
-the hamstrings cross the hip and the knee joint, that is true.
-the calves cross the knee and the ankle joint that is true.
-i have no idea how he makes the jump from the last two truths to dorsiflexion putting a stretch on your hamstrings. sure you can feel something stretching in the back of your leg, but thats probably just the calf that crosses that joint.
-flexing your ankle will have absolutely NO effect on the hamstrings, saying otherwise is pure bullshit.



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back muscles


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