Need advise on whether to bulk/cut/recomp? [Forum Archive]

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Need advise on whether to bulk/cut/recomp?

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Posted by: cha

First of all, I'd like to say, hi. This is my first time posting here.

I need some advise on what to do. I don't know if I should keep cutting, start a clean bulk or do a slow body recomp. I'm 29, 5' 6", 140lbs. I've been working out off and on for several years. It wasn't until 2 years ago that I got series about it. In the process (over the past 2 years), I've lost 35 lbs and gone down from a 36" wasit to a 31" waist. I'm down to 140lbs but, I'm still "soft" and not lean. I'm afraid if I keep cutting weight, I'm gonna look like a twig. So, I don't know if I should keep cutting. Currently, I think I'm at 16-18"bf. Ideally, I'd like to be 150lbs at 8-10%bf. There are some pics in my gallery (please don't laugh!)

Any help/suggestion would be appreciated. Here's my current diet...

Breakfast
1 egg (egg beaters version)
5 egg whites
1 cup of oats
1 apple
2 caps of fish oil
(530 cals / 8 gm fat / 70 gm carbs / 41 gm protein)

Mid morning
1 scoop whey
handful of walnuts or almonds (5 pieces)
2-3 baby carrots
(156 cals / 6 gm fat / 7gm carbs / 20 gm protein)

Lunch
4 oz of Turkey and 1/4 avocado sandwich on multi-grain bread
Small salad
2 caps of fish oil
(480 cals / 10gm fat / 45gm carbs / 35gm protein)
or
4 oz Chicken breast wrap
Small salad
2 caps of fish oil
(400 cals / 5gm fat / 35gm carbs / 30gm protein)

Afternoon
1 scoop whey
handful of walnuts or almonds (5 pieces)
2-3 baby carrots
1 apple or banana
(200 cals / 6 gm fat / 27gm carbs / 20 gm protein)

Dinner
1 Chicken breasts (2 - 1/2 breasts) cooked with 2 teaspoons of olive oil
Veggies or sweet potato
Small salad
2 caps of fish oil
(400 cals / 6gm fat / 20-50 carbs / 30 gm protein)

Late Night
1/2 cup Cottage cheese mixed with 1/2 scoop whey and 1 tbsp peanut butter.
(230 cals / 8 gm fat / 3 gm carbs / 31 gm protein)

Posted by: MuscleM4n

Well done on the weight loss man!

But now you look skinny

...stay with a consistent diet for now. Start bulking once you have trained hard for a few weeks, then you can go on a major bulk.
Don't start the bulk without training hard for a while becuase then you will just get fat again.
Just cut for another few weeks then go on a CLEAN bulk.
You have to train hard to teach your body to add muscle and not fat when you start that bulk.

I would recommend you start off with 3/4 days a week and see how you feel.

Like this:

Monday - Chest and triceps
Tuesday - back and biceps
Wednesday - off
Thursday - Shoulders and traps
Friday - Legs.
Weekend - Off.

A routine will help you stay commited and on track.

If you wanted i could make you a routine that is directed to strength and mass?

For general bodybuiling nutrition directed towards your bodytype:

Wake up - protein shake with WATER (so it gets digested ASAP to feed your starving muscles at this time).

Breakfast - Oats, eggs, milk, yoghurt, peanut butter toast etc

2-3 hours later - Pasta / rice with chicken and some meat.

Go gym now

after gym - protein shake with lots of milk.

30 mins later - Pasta /rice with chicken and some meat.

Dinner - Anything you want (make it a cheat meal)

2-3 hours later - meat and some vegetables (broccolli is v.good)

before bed - Cottage cheese, milk, eggs (light foods)

When you start to get in to a diet like this DON'T have big portions.

General diet rules:

- Medium/small portions.
-make sure to eat every 2-3 hours.
- Include healthy fats (important for bodily functions)

Most important thing is to be consistent .

Your diet is good for a cut but not for a bulk.

Don't worry about taking so many tablets.

'Food is the most anabolic substance'

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Hey,

Quote:

Originally Posted by cha

I need some advise on what to do. I don't know if I should keep cutting, start a clean bulk or do a slow body recomp. I'm 29, 5' 6", 140lbs. I've been working out off and on for several years. It wasn't until 2 years ago that I got series about it. In the process (over the past 2 years), I've lost 35 lbs and gone down from a 36" wasit to a 31" waist. I'm down to 140lbs but, I'm still "soft" and not lean. I'm afraid if I keep cutting weight, I'm gonna look like a twig. So, I don't know if I should keep cutting. Currently, I think I'm at 16-18"bf. Ideally, I'd like to be 150lbs at 8-10%bf. There are some pics in my gallery (please don't laugh!)

Ok - I would not 'bulk' - not at a BF of 16-18%. You will just end up adding a lot of fat for your efforts.

But I would not continue to 'cut' either - at 5'6 and 140 pounds you certainly do not want to lose any more weight.

Instead, stick to the weight you are and concentrate your efforts in the gym. You can slowly re-comp your body to gain muscle and, during this time, you will likely lose some of your bodyfat as well - so you will improve your physique. Once you get your BF% down to under 12% you could then think about doing a specific gaining diet to get some quality mass on you.

This means you should, at the moment, eat ~maintainence (or ~5% above) with a good mix of protein (~1.5 x LBM or 1.25 x total weight), healthy fats (at least 0.4 x LBM) and carbs.

How are you training at the moment? You want to make sure you are training consistently and effectively - as this could be your problem.

In regards to your diet - can't comment a lot as you have not put in a lot of measurements for things, but just quickly:

Quote:

Breakfast
1 egg (egg beaters version)
5 egg whites
1 cup of oats
1 apple
2 caps of fish oil

Great.

Quote:

Mid morning
1 scoop whey
handful of walnuts or almonds
2-3 baby carrots

Handfull? How much? Might want to add a little carb here (eg: grind some oats, add some milk etc). You might also want to add a few more vegetables (eg: add 1-2 celery stalks as well).

Quote:

Lunch
Turkey and avocado sandwich on multi-grain bread
Small salad
2 caps of fish oil
or
Chicken breast wrap
Small salad
2 caps of fish oil

Excellent (change it to a big salad).

Quote:

Afternoon
1 scoop whey
handful of walnuts or almonds
2-3 baby carrots
1 apple or banana

Good. Same comments re the celery in your morning meal.

Also - When is your PWO shake?? (that is: What to eat after working out?)

Quote:

Dinner
2 Chicken breasts
Veggies or sweet potato
Small salad
2 caps of fish oil

2 chicken breasts?? Probably a little much for someone your size. Realistically you are not going to need that much protein.

Vege's OR sweet tato?? Try both my friend! Sweet tato are a carb, not a vegetable.

Might want to add a little more healthy fats here too (eg: 0.5 tbs olive oil).

Quote:

Late Night
Cottage cheese mixed with whey and peanut butter.

Drop the whey - CC + pb is fine.

Posted by: cha

Thanks for your comments Emma and M4n. I edited my post to add specific quantities

My maintenance is 2400 cals and I've been consuming 2000 cals a day (50gm fat / 200-230 gm carbs / 175-200 gm protein). So, if I up to my maintenance, should I add a little more fats as well as complex carbs or just complex carbs? I'm already at my limit (a little over) in my protein intake, so I don't think I should increase that.

In reference to to PrWO and PWO meals, those are mid morning and Lunch repectfully as I workout right after the mid morning meal, workout and then eat lunch. Should I be adding more?

In reference to my workout, I like to do full body workouts (perhaps this could be my problem - I don't know) but it looks like this. I use a weight that reaches me to failure.

Monday (1 min rest between sets)
Leg Press 3X15
Seated Leg Extensions 3X15
Chest Press 3X15
Cable Row 3X15
Front Lateral Raise 3X15
Calf Raise 3X15
Barbell Bicep Curl 2X15
Tricep Pushdown 2X15
Then I repeat once more

Tuesday (1 min rest between sets)
Squat 3X15
Hamstring Curls 3X15
Incline Bench Press 3X15
Lat Pull Down 3X15
Side Lateral Raise 3X15
Calf Raise 3X15
Bicep Hammer Curls 2X15
Tricep Kickback 2X15
Then I repeat once more

Wednesday (30 min moderate cardio and abs)

Thursday (2 min res between sets)
Leg Press 2X6-12
Hamstring Curls 2X6-12
Seated Leg Extension 2X6-12
Calf Raise 3X6-12
Flat Bench Press 2X6-12
Cable Row 2X6-12
Decline Bench Press or Dips 2X6-12
Lat Pull Down 2X6-12
Military Press 2X6-12
Barbell Bicep Curl 2X6-12
Tricep Overhead extension 2X6-12

Friday (30 minute moderate cardio and abs)

Saturday (3 min rest between sets)
Squat 3X3-6
Calf Raise 3X3-6
Flat Bench Press 3X3-6
Bent Over Row 3X3-6
Decline Dumbell Flys or Dips 3X3-6
Lat Pull Down 3X3-6
Leg Press 3X3-6
Military Press 3X3-6
Rear Lateral Raise 3X3-6
Preacher Curls 2X3-6
Tricep Pull Down 2X3-6

Sunday (Off)

Posted by: CowPimp

Your diet honestly looks pretty good. Just take note of the few suggestions that Emma made.

You are not 16-18% body fat. You are significantly lower. I'm going to estimate 12% give or take a little. You need to add muscle mass. Your physique will round out when you do. Bump up your calories to maintenance level and stick there for a week or two. Jump up 5% or so beyond that and see if you notice any weight gain over the course of two weeks or so.

Your routine looks okay, but the volume is a little excessive on some days. There are definitely some things I would change about the routine. Most notably, you lack a good exercise incorporating hip extension as the primary joint movement, you do too many isolation exercises for full body routines, you use too much volume in general on some days, etc. Check out my writeup on designing a full body routine. I think you will learn a thing or two from it:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=53106

Posted by: cha

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Your diet honestly looks pretty good. Just take note of the few suggestions that Emma made.

You are not 16-18% body fat. You are significantly lower. I'm going to estimate 12% give or take a little. You need to add muscle mass. Your physique will round out when you do. Bump up your calories to maintenance level and stick there for a week or two. Jump up 5% or so beyond that and see if you notice any weight gain over the course of two weeks or so.

Your routine looks okay, but the volume is a little excessive on some days. There are definitely some things I would change about the routine. Most notably, you lack a good exercise incorporating hip extension as the primary joint movement, you do too many isolation exercises for full body routines, you use too much volume in general on some days, etc. Check out my writeup on designing a full body routine. I think you will learn a thing or two from it:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=53106

Thanks, CowPimp! I'll check out your writeup.

Posted by: juggernaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Hey,

Ok - I would not 'bulk' - not at a BF of 16-18%. You will just end up adding a lot of fat for your efforts.

But I would not continue to 'cut' either - at 5'6 and 140 pounds you certainly do not want to lose any more weight....
Drop the whey - CC + pb is fine.

This is excellent advice. Do what she says.

Posted by: juggernaut

also, in the gym, what is your rep/set days on/off load look like? you seem nutritionally sound-also what are you taking afterwards for post recovery?

Posted by: cha

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

also, in the gym, what is your rep/set days on/off load look like? you seem nutritionally sound-also what are you taking afterwards for post recovery?

That info is posted right after Emma's post.

Posted by: Emma-Leigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by cha

Your protein level is pretty good at that intake, but I would certainly increase carbs (280-300g ish would be better). Fat intake is not too bad - but is a little on the low side, so you might find something closer to 60g is more appropriate.

Quote:

In reference to to PrWO and PWO meals, those are mid morning and Lunch repectfully as I workout right after the mid morning meal, workout and then eat lunch. Should I be adding more?

Ok - this depends on your 'preference' around workouts.

For the best anabolic environement, you are best to get a good meal of carbs and protein ~2 hrs before you train (or you have a small protein/carb shake ~30 minutes before training) and then you follow it up immediately with a PWO shake of whey + easily digestable carbs. But what you want to do may also depend on where your meals fit at the moment.

What would be best would be something like:
breakfast - protein/carb/fat meal
meal 2 (~1.5 hrs pre training) - protein/carb/fat meal
PWO shake (straight after training) - protein/carb shake
Lunch (~1 hr after shake) - protein/carb/fat meal

But you could also try:
breakfast - protein/carb/fat meal
meal 2 (~30 mins pre training) - protein/carb shake
PWO shake (straight after training) - protein/carb shake
Lunch (~1 hr after shake) - protein/carb/fat meal

Quote:

In reference to my workout, I like to do full body workouts (perhaps this could be my problem - I don't know) but it looks like this. I use a weight that reaches me to failure.

Full body workouts are good - but you have to be careful of volume and fatigue. But cowpimp gave you some good advice in regards to this.

Posted by: cha

Thanks Emma! Since I need to up my calories a bit anyway, I think I'll spread my meals out a little more - that will leave room for proper PrWO and PWO meals.

You guys have been very helpful. I like it here. I think I stick around. I'll let you know how it goes.

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