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Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
find a new job.
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
I did an HST routine this summer that called for me working out six times per week, doing almost the exact same thing every other day.
I am sure you could do the same or a similar routine four days in a row, while doing some stretching, plyometrics, etc. at work on your "off" days. |
Thanks for the input Sox, I'll look into that.|
Originally Posted by Ivanry
4 days suggestions:
chest back legs bi/tri/shoudlers chest/shoulders back legs bi/tri (I did this routine for 1/2 a year) 4 days in a row is no biggie...Many peopl go 5days then 2rest: |
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Originally Posted by Patrick
day 1- upper
day 2- lower day 3- off day 4- total body day 1- upper push day 2- upper pull day 3- off day 4- legs day 1- power/speed day 2- strength day 3- off day 4- hypertrophy |
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Originally Posted by Dale
find a new job.
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Originally Posted by P-funk
I only take a job if it allows me enough time to dedicate to my training.
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| Very interesting. Do you think I can get good results from them? Can you help me put together something if I go this way? |
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Originally Posted by CaptainDeadlift
I'd vote for P-funk's third suggestion as my first choice and his second suggestion as my second choice.
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Originally Posted by P-funk
my fav. is the third choice also. total body workouts focusing on power/speed, strength and hypertrophy on different days. conjugate method in a three day plan.
Another way could be: day 1- power/speed day 2- strength day 3- off day 4- complex training |
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Originally Posted by benverner
I think you and CP are getting a little too smart for your own good.
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Originally Posted by P-funk
haha...I am barely scratching the surface my friend.
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Originally Posted by benverner
I think you and CP are getting a little too smart for your own good.
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Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
I think your best choice is
Monday-Off Tuesday-Off Wednesday-Off Thursday-Off Friday-Off Saturday-Off Sunday-Off The order is not all that important as long as all of the componenets are there. Also, you should take in at least 3000 more calories to speed the growth process up. I would get no less than 90% of your cals from sugar, preferrably dextrose, but you could throw in a little maltodextrin in there as well. You should see mega grwoth from this. |
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Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
As long as it is not light beer I concur.
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Originally Posted by CowPimp
Thanks for the compliment, but don't even compare me to Patrick, heh. His knowledge is leaps and bounds beyond mine.
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Originally Posted by P-funk
haha...I am barely scratching the surface my friend.
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Originally Posted by P-funk
thanks. But like I said...I am barely scrathing the surface. I have tons to learn. Also, it isn't my knowledge. I didn't do the studies or do the research. I just read and learned it and i happen to remeber a lot of it, have tried it out and deliver it to everyone else in a way that they can hopefully understand. I am not that smart....I just knew where to look for the answers.
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Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
1: J Strength Cond Res. 2002 May;16(2):250-5.
A comparison of linear and daily undulating periodized programs with equated volume and intensity for strength. Rhea MR, Ball SD, Phillips WT, Burkett LN. Exercise and Wellness Research Laboratory, Department of Exercise Science and Physical Education, Arizona State University, Tempe, Arizona 85287, USA. The purpose of this study was to compare linear periodization (LP) and daily undulating periodization (DUP) for strength gains. Twenty men (age = 21 +/- 2.3 years) were randomly assigned to LP (n = 10) or DUP (n = 10) groups. One repetition maximum (1RM) was recorded for bench press and leg press as a pre-, mid-, and posttest. Training involved 3 sets (bench press and leg press), 3 days per week. The LP group performed sets of 8 RM during weeks 1-4, 6 RM during weeks 4-8, and 4 RM during weeks 9-12. The DUP group altered training on a daily basis (Monday, 8 RM; Wednesday, 6 RM; Friday, 4 RM). Analysis of variance with repeated measures revealed statistically significant differences favoring the DUP group between T1 to T2 and T1 to T3. Making program alterations on a daily basis was more effective in eliciting strength gains than doing so every 4 weeks. Publication Types: Clinical Trial Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 11991778 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] |
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Originally Posted by benverner
If you have time could you please outline the benefits of that workout in question. If someone wants to get bigger and stronger and has to workout full body in 4 days or less how does this help? What would you recommend doing each day of the split. I realize this will take some time so if you want to blow it off that's fine too.
Sumbody splain this to me preese. I'm thinking it's more complicated then it needs to be for someone who isn't competing or has sport specific goals. I also have a hard time thinking your muscles can: a; recover properly and b; build for all three goals at once when most commonly people train for one or the other for months at a time before shifting gears. |
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Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
The problem that I see is that low speed, isokinetic strength and explosive power are not directly related. So, when you are spending 4-6 weeks doing one type of training, the other type suffers, which you would not want if both types are desired at the same time (Ie in season). I have always felt that no matter how much weight you are putting up on a slwo movement, you are not hitting the fibers you will hit in explosive training.
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Originally Posted by benverner
I understand why to use periodization, what I don't get is why the hell you would do it all in the same week. I don't have any proof but I have a real hard time thinking your muscles and CNS can adapt to all those methods within the same week.
I have the same problem with women doing a heavy day and then a light day. If you are training for bigger muscles shouldn't you be TRAINING FOR BIGGER MUSCLES. I understand powerlifters do it as a method of perfecting technique and that makes perfect sense because they are TRAINING FOR COMPETITION. If you are training for bigger and stronger muscles, then train for bigger and stronger muscles. I'm just not very agreeable today...oh, and I'm a horse's ass. |
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Originally Posted by benverner
I understand why to use periodization, what I don't get is why the hell you would do it all in the same week. I don't have any proof but I have a real hard time thinking your muscles and CNS can adapt to all those methods within the same week.
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I have the same problem with women doing a heavy day and then a light day. If you are training for bigger muscles shouldn't you be TRAINING FOR BIGGER MUSCLES. I understand powerlifters do it as a method of perfecting technique and that makes perfect sense because they are TRAINING FOR COMPETITION. If you are training for bigger and stronger muscles, then train for bigger and stronger muscles. I'm just not very agreeable today...oh, and I'm a horse's ass. |
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Originally Posted by Incognegro
I train 3 days in a row.
Monday-Chest Tues- Back Wed-Shoulders Thurs-Recovery Fri-Recovery Sat-Arms/Legs Sun- Recovery Fits me perfectly! I prefer working one bodypart (well try to w/ direct work, not counting indirect effects, like biceps when you do back) per work out. J |
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Originally Posted by benverner
you are correct, I will never question you again...
I never said what I was saying was fact, I was merely questioning the logic and why a guy who just wants to get bigger and stronger and not compete is BEST served by doing a workout like that. I understand what you are regurgitating perfectly and I completely see how it applies to you, I don't see how it is BEST for someone lifting for size and strength. When people are fanatical about something like say powerlifting or say full body workouts it tends to get shoved down peoples throats. I was merely questioning why workouts like these would be BEST for his or my goals. I mean, you're the first one to give creedence to any form of exercise depending on the person's goals. Now if his post were "I've bottomed out and I only have 4 days in a row to lift each week", I would be all for throwing something like this in for a month. He was asking about a split not a new training method right? I'm only sticking my nose in here because the poster and I have the same goals, I want to see if I'm missing the boat and why everyone isn't on a three day hoop-dy-hoop as you described. If I was stuck and the hoop-dy-hoop would help me out then sign me up! Don't be so defensive man, it really wasn't directed at you. I asked for an education on why someone not competing would train on a schedule like you mentioned, and why it would be more benefical. I still don't see where it says it's the best method to train for those goals. We're still talking about a 4 day periodization right? |
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Kind of a prickish response for some one who knows nothing about either of the posters. Rock and P-funk have worked together a few times on programs that suit Rocco. P-funk of anyone who understands these programs, would have the best understanding as what might work with Rocco
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Originally Posted by benverner
I'll agree with you on that...perhaps a PM and the pissing contest would have been avoided.
If he's a powerlifter and didn't say it then shame on me for saying I have the same goals. Oh, and I merely asked why? As far a prickish responses and personal attacks go you might want to check out p's references to me and my body building practices. |
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Originally Posted by benverner
you are correct, I will never question you again...
I don't care about getting questioned. That is what I do. I answer questions. I answered yours the best that I could I never said what I was saying was fact, I was merely questioning the logic and why a guy who just wants to get bigger and stronger and not compete is BEST served by doing a workout like that. He competes! He is a powerlifter. Did you miss the part where I stated that? He is an athlete...not a bb'er. I thought I alreaday said that. I understand what you are regurgitating perfectly and I completely see how it applies to you, I don't see how it is BEST for someone lifting for size and strength. If you see what I am REGURGITATING then why are you asking me to waste my time explaining myself. If you are that smart then come up with a program that will give him better contest numbers and size. Lifting for strength requires two things a maximum effort and a high power output (and accessory work ofcourse...ie hypertrophy). That is why I advocated to him to train that way. What applies to me applies to him since, even though we compete in different strength sports, they are strength sports none the less. When people are fanatical about something like say powerlifting or say full body workouts it tends to get shoved down peoples throats. I was merely questioning why workouts like these would be BEST for his or my goals. I mean, you're the first one to give creedence to any form of exercise depending on the person's goals. I am fanatical about this stuff. I always give advice to people dependant on their goals. If they are training to be a bb'er I usually say a total body routine or a split routine (like I laid out up there) are fine. His goals clearly aren't your goals so don't group them that way. Did you miss the part were I said this: Quote:
Do you read only what you want to read? Are you just doing this shit to bug me? Now if his post were "I've bottomed out and I only have 4 days in a row to lift each week", I would be all for throwing something like this in for a month. He was asking about a split not a new training method right? His training method is conjugate right now (westide BB template which is a 4 day routine.). Why would he change his method to some bull shit hypertrophy work when the template has worked so well in increasing his strength. His sport is powerlifting. How many athletes have you ever trained? I'm only sticking my nose in here because the poster and I have the same goals, I want to see if I'm missing the boat and why everyone isn't on a three day hoop-dy-hoop as you described. If I was stuck and the hoop-dy-hoop would help me out then sign me up! No, you don't have the same goals. Maybe you would see some results if you were more open minded to other training ideas? You probably know very little about your own training let alone training someone else. Don't be so defensive man, it really wasn't directed at you. I asked for an education on why someone not competing would train on a schedule like you mentioned, and why it would be more benefical. I still don't see where it says it's the best method to train for those goals. We're still talking about a 4 day periodization right? I am being defensive because you fire back with the same questions that I already answered adn then tell me you know what I am regurgitating. If you know so much then why do you ask? How many different types of people have you ever trained? Every time I make a post about someones training and give my advice you try and bust my ass about it and I always answer your questions. The answers are right there on the page! Just read them! It is a forum for opinionis. I give my opinion about how to train an athlete and you give yours. I never say it is wrong. I just state my own. Don't worry, people will read both of our opinions and they will know who's to folllow. |
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Originally Posted by P-funk
HIT is always a fun change of pace for a few weeks. Don't know about staying with it for to long though just because I would burn out after awhile.
The only problem i see with HIT for a powerlifter is that he needs to have a day where he works on the technique/power of his lifts. If his technique is good his lifts will be better. With HIT workouts there is no day to really focus on that because it is so balls to the wall! |
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Originally Posted by Rocco32
Yeah, I don't think I'll go the HIT way. Thanks for everyone's advice in this thread!! Lot's of good information.
I think I'll go with Patrick's split of: Power/Speed Strength Off Hypertrophy If you don't mind Patrick, I'll PM you later if you'll help me set this up correctly. Is that alright? |
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Originally Posted by P-funk
yea or we can do it in your journal if you want. either way.
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