At A Loss With Periodization [Forum Archive]

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At A Loss With Periodization

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Posted by: The Monkey Man

Heres the deal..

My olympic lifting stuff is coming along decent for me having, no coach,
no idea what I'm doing, and bad technique...

All I can say is that my strength has gone up, & I can handle
more weight than I used to...

So what?

What's my next goal???... Competition???

I don't know if I'm ready, but how does one succeed??
Try and try again???

Well...

Toledo Weightlifting Winter Invitational
Jan 21 2006
Synergy Sports & Fitness,
Toledo, OH

So besides my poor technique
This would give me 10 weeks to prepare for this comp

Drop in some suggestions on how to periodize my time wisely...
(Please base on a 7 day split if possible... If not, F-me, I'll change)

Posted by: P-funk

that is easy.....no periodization is neccessary since you are pretty much a novice. There is no need to work up the periodize to the meet because it just might mess you up trying to hit certain intensities in certain phases when really you need to work more on technique training (which alone will increase your abilities). Just break up your training between heavy high intensity workouts once a week ( >90% intensity with low volume) and then another day where you are working with lighter weight and more technique and speed ( 75-80% of 1RM). A third day would be similiar to day 2 but you could do more technique type lifts on areas where you need work like hang cleans or snatches (work on the transition phase of the lift (the scoop) or jerks from the rack. I would do my pulls in a similiar fashion as far as intensity is concered with each day and front squat the same way too on the given day (one day strength the other day speed/power). take many many warm up sets to get to working weight. My workouts may look like this:

day 1 (strength)
intensity- >/= 90%
reps- singles for the classic lifts. 2-3 reps per set for the pulls and squats
sets- 2-5 max singles......5 sets for pulls.......3-5 sets for squats
lifts (in this order)
snatch
clean and jerk
snatch pull (make sure that it is good form and quick. Not neccessarily
>90% of what you can pull from the floor. Usually around
105-115% of your best snatch workes well)
front squat

day 2 (power)
intensity- 75-85% of 1RM
reps- doubles
sets- 10-12 in the classice lifts......5 in the pulls and squats
lifts in this order
snatch
clean and jerk
clean pull
front squat

day 3 (technique)
intensity- 60-70% or 1RM
reps- 2 in the clasic lifts........3 in the pulls and squats
sets- 10-12 in the classic lifts.....5 in the jerks and squats
lifts in this order:
hang snatch (or from pulling blocks)
hang clean (or from pulling blocks)
jerks from the rack
overhead squat

does that help?

Posted by: P-funk

and I forgot to add....

Do that for 4 weeks. On week 5 drop your frequency to just 2 of training that week and perform something like day 2's workout on both days. Then weeks 6-9 you are full swing working at the higher end of the intensity levels and really trying to make your final push. On week 9 go with just three exercises per workout....snatch, clean and jerk and front squat. On the last day of week 9 (this should be 10 days before the actual meet. So if the meet is sat. this is a thursday workout)work up to what you want your opening weight to be. If you feel good go up to what you want for your second attempt. Make or miss it just call it a day after that. Week 10 is easy peasy. Just workout three days that week (sun, tues, thurs.) and keep it light (no more than 60% of your opening weight. You want to focus on stretching, moving, pulling quick and making good crisp lifts). Very very low volume (2 reps x 5 sets)!! Sun just snatch and clean and jerk. Tues- snatch, clean and jerk and light pulling and front squating. Thurs- snatch, clean pull and very light back squat for doubles. try and stretch on friday or do some alternate hot/cold showers and just relax. If you need to make weight watch you food (esp carbs) and water intake on tues-sat. morning. On sat morning no food and no water. Wake up and get in a hot shower (as hot as you can handle) for about 10-15min. and while you are in there pound down some hot coffee to try and sweat it out. Throw on some sweat pants and sweat shirts for the ride to the meet to sweat some more. When you get there do your warm up in the sweat pants and sweat shirt (I like to do jumping jacks and push ups for about 10min before I weigh in). Then drop down to your underpants and weigh in. After that eat up and drink. SHould be stuff that you are used to eating and nothing fancy that is going to make you get a tummy ache. I like bagels with chicken salad and gatorade.

Have fun!

Posted by: Yanick

after reading all that, all i can say is....mmmm, chicken salad on bagels

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

after reading all that, all i can say is....mmmm, chicken salad on bagels

you fat fuck! When are you going to get in a competition and quit being a bitch!

Posted by: P-funk

It is funny because I said don't periodize but then I just laid out some periodization...haha...anyway.....Yan, this thread and then seeing the abajiev post in your sig. got me thinking. He says he doesn't periodize and just go 100% all the time. Well, if you watch or read about the way the bulgarians structure those insane training cycles (2 times a day 6 days a week) it is kind of funny because in reality it is like conjugate periodization (like I have laid out for monkey man) since they alternate between low intensity and high intensity work on different days or different sessions of the day (ie mon- heavy cleans/tues light....or, AM heavy snatch/light clean, PM vice versa....I posted in the olympic thread some observations). Anyway, it is basically conjugate periodization except abajiev just leaves out the unloading week (aka interim stage which I placed in week 5 for monkeyman) and goes full bore up to contest time before lowering intensity and volume. That is much like the westide BB guys do it seems also (and not surprising since they took a lot from these methods of training). Just found it funny and interesting, that is all.

Posted by: Yanick

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

It is funny because I said don't periodize but then I just laid out some periodization...haha...anyway.....Yan, this thread and then seeing the abajiev post in your sig. got me thinking. He says he doesn't periodize and just go 100% all the time. Well, if you watch or read about the way the bulgarians structure those insane training cycles (2 times a day 6 days a week) it is kind of funny because in reality it is like conjugate periodization (like I have laid out for monkey man) since they alternate between low intensity and high intensity work on different days or different sessions of the day (ie mon- heavy cleans/tues light....or, AM heavy snatch/light clean, PM vice versa....I posted in the olympic thread some observations). Anyway, it is basically conjugate periodization except abajiev just leaves out the unloading week (aka interim stage which I placed in week 5 for monkeyman) and goes full bore up to contest time before lowering intensity and volume. That is much like the westide BB guys do it seems also (and not surprising since they took a lot from these methods of training). Just found it funny and interesting, that is all.

yea, i see what you're saying. basically instead of thinking strength vs power work+assistance stuff, for this you gotta think power vs technique work+assistance stuff. but i doubt any natural with average'ish genetics can push like the elite lifters from the eastern block do, and frankly i doubt any of those same people can keep hammering away like the westside bb guys do it which is why my training varies and i don't aim to hit new PR's every week cause i find it leads to no good.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

yea, I don't aim for new PR's weekly either. If I work up to 95% and hit doubles that is great. I only go for the PR when I feel realy really good.

Anyway, you are right. Without the drugs that those guys were on there is no way in hell anyone can handle that type of volume or intensity year round. Also, being elite lifters they need a greater amount of volume to create stress so that they can adapt and improve. If they have been lifting since they were 9 or 10 years old then I am sure they can handle a considerable amount of volume by the time they are in their late 20s.

Posted by: Yanick

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

those guys basically lived their whole lives training for the olympics. GPP started out for them as soon as they were ready to go to school and was later refined to bring them into their specific sports. the most powerful idea of all of this is the concept of increasing work capacity while simoultaneously being able to increase load, i'm talking long term here like years not weeks or months. so even pussies like me have a chance, through hard work, of eventually working like the real animals do and putting up big numbers regardless of whether we break records or not. some of us may have improved, over our lifetime, well more than any olympic lifter in the world has over his/her. no glory involved, but that idea is what keeps me in this game.

Posted by: CowPimp

It's pretty amazing what kind of tolerance you can build up against physiological stress when you impose it upon yourself regularly for 15+ years. That's how people like Louie Simmons have a sick ass work capacity. That 5x year old man can fucking groove!

Posted by: The Monkey Man

I think I'll take the rest of the week to soak this in...

We'll see about the frequency/intensity, I'll either adapt or fall apart -

I need huge work on my snatch, because it has degenerated into a pathetic mess
this means until the technique improves, I need to start hitting motions that
I haven't been... IE, press-unders, quick drops, overhead squats-(with bigger #s)..
And I think I am either lacking flexibility in my shoulders or static strength or both...

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

I think I'll take the rest of the week to soak this in...

We'll see about the frequency/intensity, I'll either adapt or fall apart -

Yes, a week off may be a good idea.

WHat about the intesity/frequency are your worried about? To much? Are you not recovering enough?

As far as the technique goes that is what the technique day is for. You have to pick apart your technique and know what is good for you. I haven't trained with the team that I am on (or was on) for more than a month and haven't had the coach (or my x-coach) watch me lift. I have also realized that he wasn't always the best as he isn't paying full attention and is really vague in his cues as far as helping me. I have had better results on my own program and feeling what I need more work on. You need to be the same way. You have to evaluate what is up with you.

As far as what I can see after watching you lift one time. You have a bad habit of letting the bar get to far infront of you on the pull. You need to keep it close and get your hips through. On the clean you start with the bar way out infront of you and then as you start your pull you pull it back in but it is still inches away. You need to get it close and keep it close from the start. Just doing that will help you get your elbows around faster and you will be able to get more weight on the clean. Pulling from the hang position will help you learn to keep the bar close to your torso on the second pull, work on dumping under the weight into a front squat quicker, and help you turn those elbows fast. The pulls from the floor will help you get good position from the first pull into the scoop phase and second pull of the lift as you can focus on keeping it in. Your Jerks need help. You have to try and getting a better drive and then once the bar leaves your shoulder shooting your chest forward and getting into the split stance and not pressing so much with your shoulder. the jerks from the rack will help with this. for the snatch, again you leave it out in front on the pull, so i put in the hang work to help you with that. I would do something like make one hang snatch and then place the bar on your shoulders and do a drop snatch (what I call snatch to balance and what you call quick drop....same thing.). the press unders are good. Use them as a warm up exercise. Defenitly work on the overhead squat strength as well. It will help but remeber that squat strength does always mean better lift strength. it is only helpful if you ca get into the proper position and fix the bar over head. Work with the lighter loads to help with motor programming. I know you want to go heavy. Everyone does! But think about it like this.....If I can do half reps on the bench with 405lbs should I do them all the time? Or should I work on learning how to properly execute the movement and work up to that 405 for a legit lift? Work on getting the motor control of the muscles neccessary to pull big lifts. You are strong. When you get the technique down and are confident you will be ripping the heavy weight with ease.

Posted by: The Monkey Man

Sweet!!

Thanx again Funkmeistro!!! -

I still have a very annoying pull in my left calf, but am seeking massage today...

I was actually thinking about overkilling my snatches with daily snatchwork
Light weight at first of course...

Sometimes a bombardment of repetition is what my training needs to
break past those mind/body barriers...

Then once I am satisfied with these improvements in technique and stamina,
and am without aches and pains, I can seriously address putting more
overall strength on...

As far as the competition, I don't plan to win, just compete
and take in the experience...

I will be more satisfied with hitting poor #'s and snap-perfect form -

Plus (oh shit) thinking of hosting/organizing a meet out of the Lions Den
(My Gym) in springtime!?!? -

Need to wake up the lifting community in Detroit area...
(Get everyone out of the basements & garages)

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

Sweet!!

Thanx again Funkmeistro!!! -

Plus (oh shit) thinking of hosting/organizing a meet out of the Lions Den
(My Gym) in springtime!?!? -

Need to wake up the lifting community in Detroit area...
(Get everyone out of the basements & garages)

Sometimes a bombardment of reps may be a bad thing too....ie get tired, over worked, over trained, to much information, form gets sloppy....rember....."practice makes permenant".

Host a meet sounds like fun. I know what you mean about hitting perfect form.

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

form gets sloppy....rember....."practice makes permenant".

No, practice makes perfect...Perfect practice makes permanent.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

No, practice makes perfect...Perfect practice makes permanent.

same thing...

how is studying coming? I am trying to review and continue on. I am at ch. 23. Only a few more to go. I am trying to just lok back on other chapters. I feel pretty overwhelmed right now.

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Yeah, I finished the second time thru, and going back thru the material I have forgotten a larger portion of it. I was making index cards but now am just going thru alot of the physiological principles to get them down.

I got my packet from them detailing the test and the general location. I am very much overwhelmed right now and getting a touch worried, although it is always much easier to get questions right when you have 4 answers to choose from.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Yeah, I finished the second time thru, and going back thru the material I have forgotten a larger portion of it. I was making index cards but now am just going thru alot of the physiological principles to get them down.

I got my packet from them detailing the test and the general location. I am very much overwhelmed right now and getting a touch worried, although it is always much easier to get questions right when you have 4 answers to choose from.

true, multiple choice helps but I really want to know it. Also, multiple choice is awful for me since I am a bad test taker. I usually choose the correct answer and then talk myself out of it.

I am restudying the physiology stuff also. Just so much to remeber. the program design is pretty self explainatory as it is already stuff that I do for myself and have done for a long time. I just need to remeber their specific percentage and volume recomendations for different phases of training.

I am worried also.

Posted by: Dale Mabry

I am pretty good with their volume recommendations, I beat that thru my brain a ton over the past few weeks. I will go back over their dietary stuff, but that is also pretty easy. I am only worried about the physio stuff to be honest, I can memorize the facility layout and guidelines stuff.

Hey, where is a cheap hotel near that Pace University?

Posted by: topolo

try the red light district

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I am pretty good with their volume recommendations, I beat that thru my brain a ton over the past few weeks. I will go back over their dietary stuff, but that is also pretty easy. I am only worried about the physio stuff to be honest, I can memorize the facility layout and guidelines stuff.

Hey, where is a cheap hotel near that Pace University?

don't know. Pace is way downtown. that is near the finacial distric (city hall and the brooklyn bridge). There isn't much down there. You may have to go more north to get a hotel. Either that or you may want to look at hotels in brooklyn heights to save a buck and then take a train into the city (2 stops across the bridge).

Posted by: The Monkey Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Yeah, as I'm paying close attention to my snatches lately...

I find I'm not slipping under the weight until the latter sets in my WO

And a blanket bomb of repetition, will give me the ability to pick up a light weight, and snap into a low tight snatch without even thinking about it

Plus I can gradually increase the weight 2.5-5lb increments to build it more solidly

- (I will not repeat with bad form)

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I think a hotel located near where we are going to get shitfaced would prolly be best. Where would that be?

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I think a hotel located near where we are going to get shitfaced would prolly be best. Where would that be?

I don't know? I don't drink. But I will surely watch you get shit faced. Let me see what I can find. Ivonne is much more resourceful then I am. You may want to pm her (goalgetter) and ask for her help. I am pretty stupid.

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I don't drink.

That makes my goal alot more impressive.

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