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My H.I.T. Journal (Mentzer Style)

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Posted by: camarosuper6

I havent been on much around here lately. I miss many of the people who I use to talk to regularly, and I want to start recording my workouts again.

I have spent the last 3 months or so debating many people at my local gym about HIT (the style my brother and I use) vs their more volume based training. It has gotten almost to the point of ugly. I know many people on this board have different views on training theory and such, but the people at my gym have become almost insulting in my training views (even though I am much larger then most any of those debating me).

So, as a true test of myself, and for some fun competition, I am doing an 8-10 week PURE Mentzer style HIT routine where I can change the variables of the workouts (exercise selection, cadence, intensity techniques, etc) but cannot change the basics of the HIT principles (intense, infrequent training, for one set per exercise of choice)

My diet will be rather simple.... about one of protein - gram per lb of bodyweight, carbs and fats rather low (150-200 grams daily) and fats fairly low as well (50-60 daily).

I am currently 6'3, weigh 245 lbs as of my last night. I will take measurments tonight and post my routine, weight and measurments in here.


Friday, Novemeber 11th.

Chest/Back

Flat Dumbell Flys 65lbs x 10 reps (4 second controlled negative and not going all the way to the top)
superset with


Incline Barbell Press for 225lbs x 3 reps (w/spot)

Rest

Lat Pulldowns x 9 (3-1-4 cadence)

Barbell Rows 275 x 7 (rest/pause for 15 breaths) x 2

Rest

Deadlifts 435 x 7


Good Workout. I cannot do these workouts alone, and my brother will be spotting, motivating me through each workout to get the TRUE effect of a HIT workout.

Postworkout

50 grams whey w/10 grams creatine



Posted by: bigss75

HIT is a special type of lifting. Im looking forward reading this journal.



Posted by: soxmuscle

i am so freakin' siked to see this journal. you've got a definite follower here.



Posted by: camarosuper6

Good to see you guys.

On a side note... I have never been a real believer in pre-exhaust. I have always prescribed to the overload with heavy compound movements as the main builders. This has worked like a charm for me, as I am now the heavies I have been in over 2 years, but at a much lower level of bodyfat and much higher strength level.

I have always admired Mentzer and his ideas (not philsophical really, Im not into all that Ann Raynd er whatever bullshit nonsense). However, I think this change will be a good one... and a true test of my will. TRUE old-fashioned HIT is a hard style not only because of the intensity factor, but the mental factor that you only do ONE SET.. no more. I have always been a fan and follower of low volume (4-8 sets per bodypart is the norm), doing one set is going to play with me mentally some days.. and although I know from watching my brother grow that it works, it still will be difficult.

I will be changing up the routines every 3-4 weeks.. from pre-exhaust to primarily compound exercises, negative only, rest-pause ,etc.

I hope once and for all to shut up many people (not in here really) about HIT.



Posted by: Pylon

I think the most important thing you've said (and probably the crux of the arguement you've been having) is TRUE HIT. HIT is a great program, but I would bet most people who do it (and I count myself in this group) don't really do it right. Good luck with the program.



Posted by: yellowmoomba

Hey Camaro

Good to see you back here! You are 245 now !!





Posted by: camarosuper6

@ Pylon- Exactly. True.. or maybe I should say the arthur jones/mentzer/darden etc form of HIT is one set too failure. It is mentally tough both at the intensity level and during the recovery phase.

@ Moomba.. Hey bud, long time no see!. Yea dude I blew up kinda big... im about 245, and bf is probably 13 percent or so.. Im looking to get to 8 percent BF at about 235ish or so... maybe more if this program works out well. Whats new with you dude?



Posted by: P-funk

HIT is some good shit.



Posted by: BigDyl

What do your rest periods look like between sets? How do you keep the intensity up?


By the way, I agree with what you said about close grip recruiting a comparable number of fibers as a wider grip. My close grip has felt pathetically weak lately (compared to wide grip), so I think I will start working this as my main compound movement for chest/tris.



Posted by: myCATpowerlifts

Sweet journal camaro, I will be following along as well



Posted by: Archangel

Brother Camaro, I'll definatly be following along!!! I'm getting ready to start my new routine after reading Mentzers new book, I have experimented with different variations of HIT, and I have never had a more intense, nauseating experience than with HIT, I am a firm believer in the concept and principles behind HIT. Sorry to ramble on, I should just say I'll be following along!!!



Posted by: yellowmoomba

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarosuper6
@ Moomba.. Hey bud, long time no see!. Yea dude I blew up kinda big... im about 245, and bf is probably 13 percent or so.. Im looking to get to 8 percent BF at about 235ish or so... maybe more if this program works out well. Whats new with you dude?
Good goals Camaro!! Make it happen

I'm just about recovered from a torn achilles (in May) Besides that all is well. Lets see some workouts



Posted by: DOMS

This should be great.

For those of us who don't know much about Mentzer style training, with such high intensity (so few reps, so close to max), how to do prevent the overworking of your CNS.

If these types of questions are inappropriate to ask you your journal, just let me know.



Posted by: camarosuper6

Dude ask away...

I think working out every 3 days (which is what I am currently doing, keeps the CNS from being overtrainined. 3 days gives enough time for overcompensation, and because my workouts are so low volume and brief, I think it is MUCH less taxing than doing a regular routine with moderate volume and working out every day 4-5 days a week.

Today is my dreaded leg workout. Im contemplating whether or not to start off with squats... take a break, then do leg extensions supersetted with leg press and then go on to calves.

My squats had been jumping so nicely, I didnt want to sacrifice weight, but for intensity sake... Im not sure.

In many ways its nice to have more time off to yourself, and sometimes you feel as though your not doing enough. Some days I wake up thinking.. is this really going to work... is all my hard work going to slowly deteorate?

But i know its untrue...so mentally this is just as challenging as it is physically.



Posted by: Pylon

I loooooove leg day!!! Lots o' squats, then hammer the hams! Rejoice!



Posted by: camarosuper6

well....not lots :P

one set to failure


my workout will be...

leg ext to failure

to

squats to failure

rest

ham curls to failure

calf raises to failure (rest pause)



Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarosuper6
well....not lots :P

one set to failure


my workout will be...

leg ext to failure

to

squats to failure

rest

ham curls to failure

calf raises to failure (rest pause)
How many times a week do you hit each muscle??



Posted by: camarosuper6

Once every 3 days for right now. Once I stagnate in my weights, I take an extra day of rest.. which is as Im sure as you know, classic HIT protocol.

Ive never tried PURE HIT before, as it was orginally produced. I still need to take measurements.



Posted by: Archangel

That looks like an Intense w/o my Friend!!! Pre-exhaust with extensions..... oh man can you say !!!

There are many different versions of HIT, but I really admire Mentzer in that he was the first to break away from the full body HIT, and had valid and excellent points as to why he chose to do so!!!



Posted by: camarosuper6

Today was legs... I was slightly dissapointed. I dont care what kind of pre-exhaust I do, nothing beats me up like squats. I will start next weeks workouts with squats THEN go to pre-exhaust for a killer workout.


Leg Extensions (Nautilus)
6 plates x 12 (slow with one second pause on top)
superset with
Leg Press (5 plates) x 12 - No lockout

Hamstring Curls whole stack x 12 (rest pause for 10 breaths) x 2 (RP) x 3



Posted by: Pylon

Why do you have a hard time on squats? Do you mean it is harder than for most people, or do you just push yourself really hard on it?



Posted by: bludevil

Nice looking journal, I'm hooked. Definately would like to see the results of true HIT program. I've used a variation of HIT but never the real deal. Good luck bro



Posted by: soxmuscle

while i agree with you that you need squats as the pre-exhaust excercise, you're workout looked pretty darn good there..



Posted by: camarosuper6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pylon
Why do you have a hard time on squats? Do you mean it is harder than for most people, or do you just push yourself really hard on it?
No no... what I meant was, Squats are such a tough exercise for me because they are so straining on my body overall. I dont love squats, but I love the effect they have on my legs. I want to keep my weights up, last workout with squats I did 350 for 10 reps, which is the best I have ever performed on the squat (they have always been a weaker exercise for me unfortunately)... and the thing that I have noticed is that when my squats go up, my deadlifts shoots up much faster as well.. (which is obvious im sure, but something I definitely noticed)

Next week I will do a variation. I will do a set of squats to failure. Then I will do the leg extension/leg press superset and finish off with hamstrings for a complete leg workout.



Posted by: camarosuper6

I am contemplating doing aerobic training.. to drop some of this bf.. maybe some HIIT. But after leg day would probably not be a good thing.



Posted by: camarosuper6

Did some basic aerobics tonight. Jogged/walked/sprinted about 2 miles, to get back in the groove.

Basketball season is coming up soon, and I want to be in good condition this year.

Im currently 242, and for certain will have measurements tommorrow. Im looking to be around 225-230 so by christmas, and my goal is 8 percent bodyfat.



Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarosuper6
I am contemplating doing aerobic training.. to drop some of this bf.. maybe some HIIT. But after leg day would probably not be a good thing.

actually I find that low intensity aerobics following leg day or active rest (like playing basketball) help to decrease my sorenss and get my muscles moving and prevent them from being stiff.



Posted by: camarosuper6

Well, you are P-Funk. I should probably listen to your advice, given your repuation as an e-pimp around these parts



Posted by: camarosuper6

Ok... I think I am going to increase frequency a bit. Im still maintaining the principles, but I want to see how fast my weights jump doing an every other day split, and see how far I can get without overtraining. Then, I will work backwords from there, taking extra days off if my weights stagnate.

Today will be Delts/Arms

I will do Military Press to failure

rest

Dumbell Lateral to failure superset w/ Nautilus Press to failure (rest pause)

Upright Rows to failure

rest

Barbell Curls

Hammer Curls

Tricep Extensions superset with Dips



Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarosuper6
Well, you are P-Funk. I should probably listen to your advice, given your repuation as an e-pimp around these parts

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic with me or not?

anyway, I just thought I would give you advice.



Posted by: soxmuscle

every other day isn't a bad idea at all. if you're mentally able to kill yourself every other day, thats the way i'd have done it too.



Posted by: Archangel

Quote:
Originally Posted by soxmuscle
every other day isn't a bad idea at all. if you're mentally able to kill yourself every other day, thats the way i'd have done it too.
Thats the current schedule I'm doing too (every other day)!!! And I agree with Brother Funk, I also think cardio helps take away some of the soreness!!!



Posted by: camarosuper6

Today, was great. Slightly increased volume, and great intensity. Very focused throughout the workout.

Delts/Arms

Military Press
1) 245 x 5
2) 245 x 3 1/2

Dumbell Lateral Raise
1) 55 x 6 good reps, plus 2 with serious body momentum

Upright Rows (tough on my wrists and I forgot my straps)
1) 135 x 8

Barbell Curls
1) 135 x 6 (rp) x 1 (rp) x 1

Hammers
1) 55 x 6

Lying Extension
1) 65 on both sides of cambered bar x 3 1/2

Tricep Pushdowns
1) 130 x 6 (rp)x 1 (rp) x 1

Great workout.

Another note. This is the first time I have worked arms directly in about a month, and my strength increased and my tendons/joints felt remarkably fresh and healed from overtraining them before.

I felt great today... full of energy... a sure sign that I have been overtraining with past programs. I had no aches, or pains. I am fully convinced that arms are probably the most overtrained of all the bodyparts.

My weights were up, and this is working out a bp about once every 8 days, no more than 4 total sets per bodypart, 1 set per exercise (with the exception of military press which I tried a second set). \

2 sets for biceps, 2 sets for triceps, and if they do not increase in strength, then I shall return to one set per and maybe an extra day of rest.

Tommorrow Im off, and Saturday I will hit Chest/Back.



Posted by: yellowmoomba

Damn Camaro - nice MP's!!! and 55's for laterals



Posted by: soxmuscle

what the hell is wrong with you? in all seriousness, those lateral's and military's are inhuman. those are full fledged military presses with a barbell? thats awesome weight. wow.



Posted by: Archangel

UM...................... I am gonna have to agree Brother Camaro, Awesome weights indeed!!! How do you feel doing an extra set? I really liked it, but overtrained quickly with it, incredible w/o here!!!



Posted by: camarosuper6

Thanks guys. The military press just happens to be good because I happen to have pretty good genetics in my shoulder strength. Ive gotten dumbell presses with 110 lbs for 5 reps... thats killer.

About the extra set....I want to see how I reacted to it.. obviously I only got three, but almost 4.. and 4 is my lowest rep I consider for optimal growth.



Posted by: Pylon

Dang...I know I'l late to jump on this wagon, but those are great poundages!



Posted by: camarosuper6

Ok.. a few days rest and back to work again this morning. Felt pretty good, not as intense as last workout, but I was in a rush about to go to church, so I feel next time will be better. Mental state is everything.

Today was Back/Traps (due to time restraints)

Bent Rows (after brief acclimation set)
1) 295 x 6 (rp) x 1 (rp) x 1

Weighted Pullups x 25lbs
1) x 4
1) x 3 1/2 (drop set) body weight x 3

Close Grip Pull Down

240 x 8 (rp) x 2

Deadlifts 445 x 5

Shrugs
1) 395 x 6 (rp) x 3



Posted by: Archangel

Huge numbers there Brother Camaro!!! Solid w/o, have you got Mentzers new book "The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer"? I have and its a real good read. The current routine I am on was taken from his "most productive routine" in that book!!! I have tweaked it a little bit, but am following the HIT guidelines!!! Keep it up, lookin incredible in here!!!



Posted by: camarosuper6

Thanks Arch.

Today was Chest/Calvs


Incline Press w/dumbells (biggest ones in the gym.. now what?)
110 x 7
110 x 5 (no spotter used, positive failure on both sets)

Weighted Dips using 90lbs
1) x 7 (rp for 10 breaths) x 2 (rp) x 1

Nautilus Lying Pec-Deck
220 x 10

That wraps up my chest workout. Very brief, but very good. My volume is very low, which I love. The more I use a low volume approach to working out, the more I believe I was overtraining on my old programs (going up to 9 sets per bodypart)
which is still considered by most low volume or moderate at best.

Debating whether to do legs tommorrow or not.. most likely will, seeing the gym will be closed on thur.... ill probably do legs tommorrow, and do shoulders/arms again on saturday, taking a nice long break in between.



Posted by: Archangel

Lookin really good!!! Hmmmm not sure what to tel you about the DB's!!! 110 huh? I can only hope to HIT 110 someday!!! More power to you my Friend!!!



Posted by: CowPimp

Damn, nice incline DB press. HIT owns 4 lyf3.



Posted by: soxmuscle

your shoulders are strong, and it shows on your chest excercises aswell. thats good stuff.



Posted by: P-funk

Nautalis lying peck deck? Never saw that one. Is it a real old machine? I like the Nautalis pullover.



Posted by: camarosuper6

Its just a lying peck deck... i like it better than the seated pec because it allows more weight.

I love the naut pullover, me and mike are gettin one in our garage



Posted by: camarosuper6

Today was Legs

Yay.


Squats (did 3 sets because all sets were shy of failure by at least one rep)
1) 340 x 10
2) 360 x 6
3) 380 x 6

Hamstring Curls
1) Stack x 8 (rp) x 2

One Legged Quad Extensions
1) Stack x 10 on both legs



Posted by: camarosuper6

I have set some personal goals to acheive by the new year.

I want to Squat 400 or better for 8 solid reps...

I would like to Deadlift 475 for 8 solid reps....(because I am tall, deadlifts can be a real pain)

I would like to Military Press 250lbs for 8 solid reps



Posted by: camarosuper6

I have also made a firm decision that I am going to compete in my first amateur bodybuilding show this summer in Orange County. I have a friend at my gym (an older gentleman, in his upper 40's) who competed in the masters last year and said he had a blast and it was a great experience overall.

After talking to my brother, I would like to truly test myself, and with his diet advice and workout observations, I believe I would be able to compete in a show and really learn alot about myself and bodybuilding in general.

Any suggestions from experienced people is more than welcome



Posted by: Archangel

Awesome w/o and goals there BRother Camaro!!! Congrats on deciding to do your first show, try to enjoy it!!! Have a GREAT Thanksgiving!!!



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarosuper6
I have set some personal goals to acheive by the new year.

I want to Squat 400 or better for 8 solid reps...

I would like to Deadlift 475 for 8 solid reps....(because I am tall, deadlifts can be a real pain)

I would like to Military Press 250lbs for 8 solid reps
Those are some monster numbers! Is there any particular bodyweight you would like to be at when moving that kind of weight, or whatever it takes to get there?



Posted by: camarosuper6

Hmmm... well, since I plan on competing Im considering slowly starting to add a little weight.... Im about 243 right now....and I figure I should probably not get any higher than 250-255, bulking healthy and slowly.....

I want to post some pics next week and get some criticism from you guys, giving me an idea about what is good/bad on my physique.

Mike, my bro is going to be handling my diet/workout plans for the most part, and I think the workout plans will stay relatively the same.



Posted by: Pylon

Good luck with the goals, Cam. Those are great numbers you are putting up already!



Posted by: camarosuper6

Joined a new gym today... 180 bucks for 18 months, 24 hours, good equipment, etc. A bit further, but 24 hour service is just outstanding (my old gym closed at 10 on weekdays and 3 on weekends)

Today was Shoulder/Arms.... decent workout, poundages not really up much though.

Military Press
245 x 4
225 x 4 (rp) 1

Side Lateral

60 x 6 (rp) 2 (rp) 2 used a good bit of body momentum on the rest-pauses

Barbell Curls

135 x 6 (rp) x1 (rp) x 1

Nautilus Curls (negative only)
120 x 6 per arm (3-5 second negatives)

Lying Extension
65lbs on both sides of cambered bar
1) x 4
2) x 4

PressDowns
1) 130 x 8 (rp) x2 (rp) x 2



Posted by: P-funk

jeez, how often do you train after 10pm??



Posted by: camarosuper6

lol.. not often, but I have many days where maybe at 1 am I will get the itch to train... or sometimes, at 1030 or so....I have an infant, and she keeps me up strange hours.... the gym is also more hardcore oriented...dumbells that go up to 150lbs, and Im already looking to get 120's on bench press and soon on db press as well...



Posted by: Pylon

New gym sounds nice. What kind of place closes at 3 on the weekend?



Posted by: camarosuper6

Well.. major change in plans. After a lengthy discussion with my bro, and basically feeling damn burned out, I have decided to change my HIT routine altogether. This was a decision I thought about extinsively.. and after researching and reading through, I am going to try a new direction, for awhile at least.

After reading up on, what seems to be the latest research regarding more frequent training sessions (not more volume per workout), I have been intrigued. Both my brother and I have pretty much stagnated in most of our regular mutil-joint lifts, and I personally have a few very small, but nagging pains (shoulder, back), and an overall burned out feeling that is probably my CNS.... that I believe may be attributed to month after month of heavy training (MAX-OT is my usual weapon of choice).

Now, dont get me wrong. I still love HIT, still love MAX-OT heavy style training, but I think Im overdue for a change in direction here.... here is what I plan on doing, and why.

From what I have been researching, more frequent workouts seem to signal quite a few mechanisms in the body that regulate growth... and dissapear soon after (48 hours or so)... that being said, I dont believe your muscles will atrophy after this amount of time, but instead of simply balancing nitrogen retention for X amount of days, why not train again every 48 hours or so, sub failure to increase those horomonal mechanisms that induce growth? (basically HST)

Now.. I also truly believe, maybe more from personal experience than science or research, that the best way to make a muscle stronger is through intense training (failure and beyond) techniques... now many people will probably point out powerlifting programs, russian this, bulgarian that... doesnt matter to me really.. those guys are all jucied much like bodybuilders, and the elite of their group...so I take their programs with a grain of salt, just like any FLEX magazine article or trainer. And me not being a fan of plyos or olympic lifting (sorry P-Funk), I dont incorporate explosive lifts into my program.

Classic HIT type training advocates training a given muscle, or group every 7-14 days (sometimes more, but that is gross overkill USUALLY IMO)... and incorporating failure into my routine ensures me strength increases and a mental/physical challenge that I enjoy.

So now, I will be employing a basic HST program, that will give me the benefits of more frequent training with progressive overload and less CNS stimulation, and HIT, which at the end of each two-week program I will go to failure (and beyond, using RP techniques and such)... which also happens to correlate well with the HIT guidelines of failure every 7-14 days (it will be 12ish or so with this program).

I look forward to this program, and will post all information about my workouts in the journal.



Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Now.. I also truly believe, maybe more from personal experience than science or research, that the best way to make a muscle stronger is through intense training (failure and beyond) techniques... now many people will probably point out powerlifting programs, russian this, bulgarian that... doesnt matter to me really.. those guys are all jucied much like bodybuilders, and the elite of their group...so I take their programs with a grain of salt, just like any FLEX magazine article or trainer. And me not being a fan of plyos or olympic lifting (sorry P-Funk), I dont incorporate explosive lifts into my program.

while it is true that the elite are juiced the principles can still apply to anyone. On a side note, whenever I did speed work for my bench press I never saw any improvents on my max. I did see improvents however doin heavy singles or partials on one day and then reps on another.

Box squatting for speed helped me a little on getting out of the hole.

The cleans and snatches have helped me get quicker more then anything (not just lifting wise but movement wise and jumping wise) because of the triple extension involved in the lift. But, I don't do them to be fast at squating. I do them because that is the sport I choose to compete in.

In any event, I agree with you about mixing it up and doing something other then HIT for awhile. I love HIT but I can only last on it for a little bit before i crash and burn. There are many ways to train.



Posted by: camarosuper6

Bingo. And I see nothing wrong with training with explosive movements IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE USING THEM in competition. That would of course work, increasing your neuro-effeciency, coordination, etc.

I just think for bodybuilding purposes, they are too risky.



Posted by: Archangel

Best of luck my Friend!!! You'll do incredible I'm sure no matter what you do!!!



Posted by: soxmuscle

i tried hst this summer, and loved it. your brother said he'd send me the routine that you two will be performing. is it cut and dry what you will be doing each day or how do you plan on going about this?



Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarosuper6
I just think for bodybuilding purposes, they are too risky.

I agree with you 100% here. if you aren't playing an athletic sport were you are moving explosively or having to be ballistic or a weightlifting type sport/track and field event that focuses on explosive power the risk is greater then the reward. You are much better off just focusing on compound movements and lifting weight in a progressive manner.



Posted by: CowPimp

I'm not purely a bodybuilder, but I enjoy implementing olympic lifts periodically. I think they are a nice change of pace and a good challenge. I do agree that they are unecessary for a bodybuilder, but they are certainly something to try if your routine is getting stale and you have access to the tools that allow you to learn good form.



Posted by: camarosuper6

Havent updated in a bit... been adjusting my plan.

This is my second week of 10's.... AM/PM split, 3 times a week (exhausting for sure)

Today's AM

Squats
1) 330 x 10
2) 330 x 5

Incline Press (DB)
1) 100 x 10
2) 100 x 10

Bent Rows
1) 240 x 10
2) 240 x 10

Side Lateral
1) 45 x 10
2) 45 x 8

Barbell Curls
1) 105 x 10

Lying Extensions
1) 50lb on both side of cambererd bar x 10
2) 50 x 8


Nothing to failure, but very close on the second set of eveything I did two sets on....



Posted by: Archangel

Lookin good, how do you like the new split routine?



Posted by: camarosuper6

I like it, but its incredibly exhuasting... more so than I would have imagined.. I can only picture what going to failure will be like...!

Hows things with you?



Posted by: camarosuper6

Sorry for the lack of updates....

I just finished the 5's on my HST cycle and im just blown away. Im loving the program. Mentally and physically, its more less exhausting, and I still get the challenge of doing heavy weights to failure every two weeks.

I weigh a nice 239.... and have broken records.....

Incline Dumbell Press 130 x 5
Squats 405 x 5
Bent rows 305 x 5
Military Press 255 x 5
Dips 100lb weighted x 5
Overhand Grip Pullups with 20lbs attached x 5
Ham Curls 220 x5

This has proved to be a awesome. I have no complaints.



Posted by: yellowmoomba

Nice lifts Camaro!!



You're 239



Posted by: camarosuper6

yea.. and thats after dropping 10 lbs :/



Posted by: Archangel

Awesome lifts my Friend, glad the new routine is working out for you, have a Great and Safe New Years!!!



Posted by: Pylon

Have a great New Year's Eve, Cam. Be safe!



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My H.I.T. Journal (Mentzer Style)


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