Help, back squats are lagging badly [Forum Archive]

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Help, back squats are lagging badly

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Posted by: Gordo

I can deadlift a good 50lbs over my squat (somehow I kinda always figured it should be the other way around). My form is good (I think) but it seems coming out of the hole is a real challenge ...like I suck badly, my core stays pretty tight throughout so I figure my hams and possibly glutes are a real weak link here....which wouldn't suprise me in the least.

What do you think?
Maybe drop the squat for a while in favor of the leg press and just concentrate more on things like Romanian Deads and SLDL's until my hammies and glutes catch up? Or lighten up (which I don't really want to do but I guess I could).

Stuck on what to do. I don't really want to drop out the squat but it's getting frustrating as all get out and I'm not really progressing how I would like with this.

Any idear's?

Posted by: The13ig13adWolf

DL weight being higher than squat weight is normal in most instances.

are you still progressing on squats?

Posted by: gogo

hmm i can squate more than i can dead lift.. wierd.
My legs are fairly big from hockey thou...

Posted by: Gordo

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf

DL weight being higher than squat weight is normal in most instances.

are you still progressing on squats?

Yeah seems kinda slow though....like, I think I'm approaching a stall....not sure how to push through it with squats. Maybe practice coming off the pins for a while (ie: start from the bottom)?

Posted by: The13ig13adWolf

are you eating enough? when was the last time you switched up your training program? even just the set/rep parameters?

Posted by: TJ Cline

Posting your workout and diet is needed here.........with out it people are just shooting in the dark.

Posted by: Gordo

Don't think it's diet....I'm 5'10 148
roughly around 2600 cals/day which is about 400 cal above my maintenance

training 4 days w.2 days light cardio 1 day off

Mon: cardio
Tues: back/shoulders
Wed: cardio
Thurs: legs
Fri: off
Sat: chest
Sun: bi/tri's

However I think you might have it....I've been doing 4X10 for the past 10 weeks (though usually by set 4 it drops to about 8 reps) in squats....might be time to switch that up.

Actually I was thinking about changing routines entirely as this one is getting stale....though the days work pretty good with my life schedule.

What's sort of the rule of thumb in terms of changing up a routine....simply when it starts to burn out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf

are you eating enough? when was the last time you switched up your training program? even just the set/rep parameters?

Posted by: Gordo

Actually on second look....perhaps cardio in between back and legs ain't such a grand idea. Wed should probably be my off day....it's just that cardio the day after legs sucks bigtime.

Posted by: Triple Threat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

Tues: back/shoulders
Wed: cardio
Thurs: legs

That could be your problem right there. Get a little more separation between back and legs and don't do cardio the day before legs.

Posted by: Stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

Don't think it's diet....I'm 5'10 148
roughly around 2600 cals/day which is about 400 cal above my maintenance
training 4 days w.2 days light cardio 1 day off

are you tryiing to bulk? what are your gains like? you might need more cals if you're doing cardio as well

Posted by: Tough Old Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

Actually on second look....perhaps cardio in between back and legs ain't such a grand idea. Wed should probably be my off day....it's just that cardio the day after legs sucks bigtime.

Funny you should say that. I do cardio for 45 min's everyday except for Leg day and I don't have any problems. There's is absolutely nothing wrong with doing cardio between those two days. What would you suggest to those who work ea body part twice a week, not to do any cardio?

For the thread starter. Look at some of your power lifters. Some are stronger on the Deads then Squats and others are stronger on the Squats then deads. I wouldn't put to much into it as long as your getting a good leg workout along with a good diet.

Tough

Posted by: Gordo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

are you tryiing to bulk? what are your gains like? you might need more cals if you're doing cardio as well

Well it's better than the 138 I was 4 months ago

Yeah I'm trying to go up in weight....gains are slow though but they're there. Doing more of a slow bulk as I'm not looking to compete or anything just training mostly because I just enjoy lifting. Pretty much my metabolisn slowed the hell down around 30 but that was about the same time my kids came along....then I got out of shape....then I started taking up lifting again....however I cut a little too deep....but for keeping up with my kids lighter wasn't necessarily a bad thing(but at 34 my metabolism seems to be really ramped up as of late). So for now I figured I'd climb to about 160....acclimatize there for a bit and then move the set point again.

So no real rush, so long as there's a progression....but you may be right, my cals might need to go up some more....however with the good 'ol CDN winter approaching... my activity just switches to skating, sliding (hey climbing those damn hills with the kids is cardio)....walking though the damn snow with all the extra gear in boots= more activity

Posted by: Gordo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

Funny you sghould say that. I do cardio for 45 min's everyday except for Leg day and I don't have any problems. There's is absolutely nothing wrong with doing cardio between those two days.

fair enough... it was just a thought....maybe my recovery kinda sucks.

Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Do ATG squats if you don't already. There's basically nothing better IMO. For those of you who will argue, show me anything scientific that states that they're bad for the knees. For those of you who won't do them because they're too hard, stop whining.

Posted by: Gordo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

Do ATG squats if you don't already. There's basically nothing better IMO. For those of you who will argue, show me anything scientific that states that they're bad for the knees. For those of you who won't do them because they're too hard, stop whining.

I do, but like I said...I don't exactly explode out of the hole....means I'm too heavy for what I can do I gather?

Posted by: Gordo

thanks for everyone's help by the way

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

Don't think it's diet....I'm 5'10 148
roughly around 2600 cals/day which is about 400 cal above my maintenance

training 4 days w.2 days light cardio 1 day off

Mon: cardio
Tues: back/shoulders
Wed: cardio
Thurs: legs
Fri: off
Sat: chest
Sun: bi/tri's

However I think you might have it....I've been doing 4X10 for the past 10 weeks (though usually by set 4 it drops to about 8 reps) in squats....might be time to switch that up.

Actually I was thinking about changing routines entirely as this one is getting stale....though the days work pretty good with my life schedule.

What's sort of the rule of thumb in terms of changing up a routine....simply when it starts to burn out?

You dont tell us what you do on any of those days.......................we need information!!!

sets
reps
exercises
intensity
volume
ect.

Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

I do, but like I said...I don't exactly explode out of the hole....means I'm too heavy for what I can do I gather?

I would start doing bottom squats then, as someone else suggested. How heavy you are shouldn't have too much bearing on this unless you're vastly overweight. You'll definitely have to decrease the weight, but it'll be well worth it IMO. You could also try front squats. They have a lot of carryover to back squats. I stopped doing back squats and did front squats for a couple months and added over 20 pounds to my ATG back squat.

Posted by: Gordo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

You dont tell us what you do on any of those days.......................we need information!!!

sets
reps
exercises
intensity
volume
ect.

squats 4x10
barbell hack squats 4x8
leg ext 4x12
ham ext 4x8
standing calf raises 3 set -failure
calf raises (using leg press) 3 sets -failure

generally increasing the weight per set.

Quote:

Cool thanks for the suggestion

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

squats 4x10
barbell hack squats 4x8
leg ext 4x12
ham ext 4x8
standing calf raises 3 set -failure
calf raises (using leg press) 3 sets -failure

generally increasing the weight per set.

Looks ok.....12 sets for quads might be a bit much.
I'm guessing this is once a week correct???
I would just mix it up a bit and drop the quad volume a bit and see what happens...

i.e

Squats 4 sets 6 reps........last set to failure only ( same weight every set)
Hack squats 4 sets 10 reps......last set to failure only ( same weight every set)
Thigh extensions 1 set to failure...10-12 reps

It depends on the individual but for me 8 sets once a week was plenty to make my legs get big and strong.

Posted by: Gordo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

yes once a week....

Thanks on the suggestions.... the change-up might get things going.

Posted by: CowPimp

People generally deadlift more than they squat raw (I deadlift about 100 pounds more than I squat for a 1RM). As long as you are progressing with squats, you should be fine.

If you are stagnating then try variations of the squat to improve your weak points. You're weak out of the hole? Then try low box squats or suspended squats. Also throw is some work for the posterior chain as you had suggested. If you are truly squatting deep, then the glutes are going to do a lot to get you out of the hole. You may also consider movements like front squats, one legged squats, etc. Also try varying your repetition ranges more and perhaps some speed/power training.

Posted by: PreMier

Same here, I deadlift way more than I squat.. and if you are worried about your hammies lacking, and glutes why would you do quad specific exercises? You should be doing SLDL's and lunges.

Posted by: Gordo

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

People generally deadlift more than they squat raw (I deadlift about 100 pounds more than I squat for a 1RM). As long as you are progressing with squats, you should be fine.

If you are stagnating then try variations of the squat to improve your weak points. You're weak out of the hole? Then try low box squats or suspended squats. Also throw is some work for the posterior chain as you had suggested. If you are truly squatting deep, then the glutes are going to do a lot to get you out of the hole. You may also consider movements like front squats, one legged squats, etc. Also try varying your repetition ranges more and perhaps some speed/power training.

Great Cowpimp Thanks....not familiar with suspended squats, would you happen to have a link handy? (course I could probably google this). Would I simply go with a variation for several weeks and leave the regular squat for now?

Quote:

You should be doing SLDL's and lunges.

Yeah I had those in my old routine, I just took them out for a bit but I should probably bring them back in. Your right, my current routine seems a little too quad dominant.

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

It's when you remove the eccentric portion of the lift. Basically, adjust the pins in the the rack so that when the bar is resting on the pins and you get under it you are a little below parallel. You start from the bottom. Great for increased starting strength.

Another variation to try is pausing in the hole. If you stop for 2-3 seconds at the bottom of the squat to allow that stored elastic energy to be dissipated as heat, then you have to generate more force with the muscle itself to get going back up as opposed to getting a boost from kinetic energy.

Quote:

Yeah I had those in my old routine, I just took them out for a bit but I should probably bring them back in. Your right, my current routine seems a little too quad dominant.

Always keep some compound movements in your routine that emphasize hip extension. I would say that generally your hamstring are more important than your quadriceps in terms of functionality. This is particularly true if you are an athlete. You should definitely consider good mornings. I think it is one of the best posterior chain movement out there.

Posted by: Gordo

awesome thanks....it sounds like suspended squats are another name for bottom squats?

I've done squats with a long pause at the bottom....don't really like it (probably becuase it's a lot harder) judging by all the tremoring my legs were doing to get back up....I gather it saps a lot more energy. Squats with a pause at the bottom seem to burn me out pretty quick.

Posted by: WantItBad

no one has said this yet i dont think and it worked for me when i was in a plateu i pre-exhausted thighs and hams before squats it was something like
Leg Exe-4x10
Leg Curls-4x10
than squated-5x5

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

awesome thanks....it sounds like suspended squats are another name for bottom squats?

Yeah, basically.

Quote:

I've done squats with a long pause at the bottom....don't really like it (probably becuase it's a lot harder) judging by all the tremoring my legs were doing to get back up....I gather it saps a lot more energy. Squats with a pause at the bottom seem to burn me out pretty quick.

It just requires you to generate more force as opposed to utilizing existing energy to aid in doing so.

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