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Creatine and Protein?

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Posted by: Morox

Does it help at all do have a protein drink after a creatine or the other way around? Or is it in any way useless?



Posted by: mrpower

i like to take my creatine 30 mins before workout on an empty stomach, don't have 2 much faith on protein dring, i'm better off drinking orange juice and a tuna sandwich



Posted by: Curlingcadys

Its not useless but don't expect any "special" effects taking them one after another (back to back), I personally take 2g cee prior and after a workout then my pwo meal after my pwo shake.



Posted by: Sir Savage

There is research indicating that they are best taken together.



Posted by: Curlingcadys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Savage
There is research indicating that they are best taken together.
interesting, got it handy? Just curious of whats better about it maybe I'll have to consider changing things up. I've taken them both together and separate over the last couple years never really noticed any difference regardless but then again I never looked for it either, I'd be interested in the research.



Posted by: FishOrCutBait

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Savage
There is research indicating that they are best taken together.
Google it.

"whey protein and dextrose mix's effects on insulin"

Dextrose and whey protein seem to shuttle in more Creatine than dextrose alone.

Edit: SCRATCH THAT

Googling it results in a bunch of crap about cell-tech and nitro-tech

I wish I could find it, I read it printed, not off the interweb, so, dont know what to tell you



Posted by: Sir Savage

Well, I can't find the ones I was looking for, but here's a close one. It shows the benefits of taking whey + creatine over just whey alone.



Quote:
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Sep;11(3):349-64. Related Articles, Links

The effect of whey protein supplementation with and without creatine monohydrate combined with resistance training on lean tissue mass and muscle strength.

Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Davidson KS, Candow DG, Farthing J, Smith-Palmer T.

Department of Human Kinetics, St. Francis Xavier University, Antigonish, Nova Scotia, B2G 2W5, Canada.

Our purpose was to assess muscular adaptations during 6 weeks of resistance training in 36 males randomly assigned to supplementation with whey protein (W; 1.2 g/kg/day), whey protein and creatine monohydrate (WC; 0.1 g/kg/day), or placebo (P; 1.2 g/kg/day maltodextrin). Measures included lean tissue mass by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, bench press and squat strength (1-repetition maximum), and knee extension/flexion peak torque. Lean tissue mass increased to a greater extent with training in WC compared to the other groups, and in the W compared to the P group (p < .05). Bench press strength increased to a greater extent for WC compared to W and P (p < .05). Knee extension peak torque increased with training for WC and W (p < .05), but not for P. All other measures increased to a similar extent across groups. Continued training without supplementation for an additional 6 weeks resulted in maintenance of strength and lean tissue mass in all groups. Males that supplemented with whey protein while resistance training demonstrated greater improvement in knee extension peak torque and lean tissue mass than males engaged in training alone. Males that supplemented with a combination of whey protein and creatine had greater increases in lean tissue mass and bench press than those who supplemented with only whey protein or placebo. However, not all strength measures were improved with supplementation, since subjects who supplemented with creatine and/or whey protein had similar increases in squat strength and knee flexion peak torque compared to subjects who received placebo




Posted by: Curlingcadys

Interesting, ya learn something everyday, well I guess I'm with it 50% being I take the 2nd half of my cee PWO and actually wash it down with my whey.



Posted by: Morox

Here's a big noob question. I am having a hard time figuring out what exactly creatine does. All I have came up with is that it's a weight gainer that's made up of water weight and it gives you more energy. Is that all it does? Or does it help build muscle? And if you stop using it, does it all go away?



Posted by: Sir Savage

Creatine helps indirectly build muscle by allowing you to do more work. I've seen some speculation that it may work through other pathways, as well, but we don't know for sure. It also draws water into muscle cells ("volumizes") to give one a fuller look.

Basically, creatine is stored in the body as creatine phosphate. When ATP (adenosine triphosphate- the chemical fuel your body uses) in muscle cells is depleted and converted into ADP (adenosine diphosphate) by muscle contractions, creatine phosphate donates the phosphate to regenerate the ADP back into ATP so that more work can be done.



Posted by: Andy_Massaro

My moms friends boyfriend has 2 tubs of nitro-tech creatine that he is offering to give me being as he has no use for them anymore, i just started lifting and i dunno if its really neccesary that i have creatine..im not really comfortable with taking it but ive been taking whey protein after my workouts lately

i dunno what do you guys think



Posted by: Morox

But if you stop taking creatine, would all the added weight look go away? I had a hard time following what you just said Sir Savage. So creatine just adds the extra boost for you to allow more reps which would result in a longer workout and help build muscle a little faster?



Posted by: Andy_Massaro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Savage
Creatine helps indirectly build muscle by allowing you to do more work. I've seen some speculation that it may work through other pathways, as well, but we don't know for sure. It also draws water into muscle cells ("volumizes") to give one a fuller look.

Basically, creatine is stored in the body as creatine phosphate. When ATP (adenosine triphosphate- the chemical fuel your body uses) in muscle cells is depleted and converted into ADP (adenosine diphosphate) by muscle contractions, creatine phosphate donates the phosphate to regenerate the ADP back into ATP so that more work can be done.
so creatine pretty much recycles the burned up energy which enables the muscle to grow more?



Posted by: Sir Savage

Yeah, you guys are on the right track.

It helps recycle your body's fuel source, ATP. With higher creatine stores in your body, you can do more work because ATP gets recycled faster, which translates to more reps and/or weight in the weight room.

If you stop taking it, you shouldn't lose any muscle.



Posted by: Andy_Massaro

sounds good but i dont think i wanna start throwing all these supplements into my body right now i just started and i dont think its neccesary, but who knows maybe down the road ill be intereseted



Posted by: ATOMSPLTR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Massaro
sounds good but i dont think i wanna start throwing all these supplements into my body right now i just started and i dont think its neccesary, but who knows maybe down the road ill be intereseted
Holy shit. Finally a kid that is using his head. I wasn't sure they still existed.

Eat and lift Mr. Massaro. That's all you need at this time.



Posted by: Sir Savage

But it's not like creatine would present him with any health problems or anything.

It's perfectly safe, even for someone his age.

If he decides to use it, he would almost certainly get some benefit from it.

But I do agree it's good that he thinks before acting.



Posted by: Andy_Massaro

haha thanks guys

ill probably end up trying it out in future, but i was talkin about it with my dad and he said it didnt really help him that much.. just made him get diarehia so im just assuming that it would have a similiar affect on me..

but whatever.. for now im just focussing on my diet more than supplements



Posted by: 1xDeatHsHeaDx3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Savage
But it's not like creatine would present him with any health problems or anything.

It's perfectly safe, even for someone his age.

If he decides to use it, he would almost certainly get some benefit from it.

But I do agree it's good that he thinks before acting.
A friend told me today that he's heard Creatine can cause heart problems later in life, I dunno what if any truth there is to that, so far the things I've read are all good.

I don't quite have the time at the immediate moment, but I'll definately look into it soon, but I wonder if some brands put a little AKG which is in Nox product into their mix (I haven't researched much on supplements, I'm really full newbie style on it right now)

"L-AKG is technically referred to as a naturally derived amino acid based vasodilator. In other words, AKG turns the spindly pencil veins in your arms chest and thighs into fire hoses!"

So that's how they get those big veins =D that's a little scary, I wonder if it's in someway unhealthy, if it increases strain on the heart and labhalbhalhb, I plan to research all of this very soon, but if you want you can give me a quick comment/answer here, I'll still research I'm getting into working out again as I've found another gym, and I wanna be super serious style like never before.

P.S. this gym is so terrible, it blows hard, for god's sake there are no free weights or barbells, where's a crying smiley when you need one. ='(
I hate machines

I'm seriously considering filling garbage bags with water and lifting those.
I need to make some money for a freakin' gym.

P.S. Again, Sir Savage, we have the same birthday, discounted supplements? hahah =p just jokin' about the discount (unless you know, you wanna heheh)



Posted by: Sir Savage

But we already have a discount going on! Sure, it's called "The Christmas Sale" (check our website), but just pretend it's "Caleb (and Tony's) Birthday Held Early in December Sale!"

As far as what you've heard, I have never seen any research indicate that creatine is bad for the heart, in the short-term or the long-term. In fact, people with various types of medical conditions take creatine to protect their heart.

And yeah, as you've noticed, many companies put arginine alpha ketoglutarate, a vasodilator, in their creatine products. It stimulates NO production, which relaxes blood vessels and allows more blood to flow the to the muscle. That, in turn, allows more nutrients to reach the muscle. Or so the theory goes. I'm honestly not real sure what the research shows with arginine alpha ketoglutarate and the like in terms of benefit for muscle mass. I don't think it's harmful, I'm just not sure how much of a benefit there is to it.

I am quite sure, though, that research shows creatine to be beneficial and safe for resistance-trained athletes, particularly when it's taken with whey protein and dextrose.

BTW, you should save up and get a home gym.



Posted by: Never2Cut

I've always gone for the protein/dextrose/creatine pwo shake immediately after working out. It seems to have worked well for me and I made some pretty good gains and broke some plateaus with that combo. I'll keep using it until it fails me. Then it'll be time to try something new.



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Creatine and Protein?


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