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EMG Studies on muscle groups


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Posted by: god hand

Thought some might find this interesting.

The results of the EMG studies show which exercises produce the greatest amount of stimulation within each target muscle group. The following table displays these results.

IEMG max motor-unit activation

Exercise/% EMG Muscle Stimulation

Pectoralis major:
Decline dumbbell bench press - 93
Decline bench press (Olympic bar) - 89
Push-ups between benches - 88
Flat dumbbell bench press - 87
Flat bench press (Olympic bar) - 85
Flat dumbbell flys - 84

Pectoralis minor:
Incline dumbbell bench press - 91
Incline bench press (Olympic bar) - 85
Incline dumbbell flys - 83
Incline bench press (Smith machine) - 81

Medial deltoids:
Incline dumbbell side laterals - 66
Standing dumbbell side laterals - 63
Seated dumbbell side laterals - 62
Cable side laterals - 47

Posterior deltoids:
Standing dumbbell bent laterals - 85
Seated dumbbell bent laterals - 83
Standing cable bent laterals - 77

Anterior deltoids:
Seated front dumbbell press - 79
Standing front dumbbell raises - 73
Seated front barbell press - 61

Biceps:
Biceps preacher curls (Olympic bar) - 90
Incline seated dumbbell curls (alternate) - 88
Standing biceps curls (Olympic bar/narrow grip) - 86
Standing dumbbell curls (alternate) - 84
Concentration dumbbell curls - 80
Standing biceps curls (Olympic bar/wide grip) - 63
Standing E-Z biceps curls (wide grip) - 61

Triceps:
Decline triceps extensions (Olympic bar) - 92
Triceps pressdowns (angled bar) - 90
Triceps dip between benches - 87
One-arm cable triceps extensions (reverse grip) - 85
Overhead rope triceps extensions - 84
Seated one-arm dumbbell triceps extensions (neutral grip) - 82
Close-grip bench press (Olympic bar) - 72

Latissimus dorsi:
Bent-over barbell rows - 93
One-arm dumbbell rows - 91
T-bar rows - 89
Lat pulldowns to the front - 86
Seated pulley rows - 83

Quadriceps:
Squats (parallel depth, shoulder-width stance) - 88
Seated leg extensions (toes straight) - 86
Hack Squats (90 degree angle, shoulder-width stance) - 78
Leg press (110 degree angle) - 76
Smith machine squats (90 degree angle, shoulder-width stance) - 60

Hamstrings:
Seated leg curls - 88
Standing leg curls - 79
Lying leg curls - 70
Stiff Legged Deadlifts - 63

Calves:
Donkey calf raises - 80
Standing one-leg calf raises - 79
Standing two-leg calf raises - 68
Seated calf raises - 61

Most of these results are laughable



Posted by: Tier

Off Topic: Is that Sanders in your avatar? I met him a few times, I used to live in the same city as him, cool dude, drove a range rover for some odd ass reason back then.



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by god hand
Thought some might find this interesting.

The results of the EMG studies show which exercises produce the greatest amount of stimulation within each target muscle group. The following table displays these results.

IEMG max motor-unit activation

Exercise/% EMG Muscle Stimulation

Pectoralis major:
Decline dumbbell bench press - 93
Decline bench press (Olympic bar) - 89
Push-ups between benches - 88
Flat dumbbell bench press - 87
Flat bench press (Olympic bar) - 85
Flat dumbbell flys - 84

Pectoralis minor:
Incline dumbbell bench press - 91
Incline bench press (Olympic bar) - 85
Incline dumbbell flys - 83
Incline bench press (Smith machine) - 81

Medial deltoids:
Incline dumbbell side laterals - 66
Standing dumbbell side laterals - 63
Seated dumbbell side laterals - 62
Cable side laterals - 47

Posterior deltoids:
Standing dumbbell bent laterals - 85
Seated dumbbell bent laterals - 83
Standing cable bent laterals - 77

Anterior deltoids:
Seated front dumbbell press - 79
Standing front dumbbell raises - 73
Seated front barbell press - 61

Biceps:
Biceps preacher curls (Olympic bar) - 90
Incline seated dumbbell curls (alternate) - 88
Standing biceps curls (Olympic bar/narrow grip) - 86
Standing dumbbell curls (alternate) - 84
Concentration dumbbell curls - 80
Standing biceps curls (Olympic bar/wide grip) - 63
Standing E-Z biceps curls (wide grip) - 61

Triceps:
Decline triceps extensions (Olympic bar) - 92
Triceps pressdowns (angled bar) - 90
Triceps dip between benches - 87
One-arm cable triceps extensions (reverse grip) - 85
Overhead rope triceps extensions - 84
Seated one-arm dumbbell triceps extensions (neutral grip) - 82
Close-grip bench press (Olympic bar) - 72

Latissimus dorsi:
Bent-over barbell rows - 93
One-arm dumbbell rows - 91
T-bar rows - 89
Lat pulldowns to the front - 86
Seated pulley rows - 83

Quadriceps:
Squats (parallel depth, shoulder-width stance) - 88
Seated leg extensions (toes straight) - 86
Hack Squats (90 degree angle, shoulder-width stance) - 78
Leg press (110 degree angle) - 76
Smith machine squats (90 degree angle, shoulder-width stance) - 60

Hamstrings:
Seated leg curls - 88
Standing leg curls - 79
Lying leg curls - 70
Stiff Legged Deadlifts - 63

Calves:
Donkey calf raises - 80
Standing one-leg calf raises - 79
Standing two-leg calf raises - 68
Seated calf raises - 61

Most of these results are laughable
Please explain exactly why they are laughable.



Posted by: TJ Cline

Just shows you EMG Studies on muscle groups are bull sh1t



Posted by: PWGriffin

I don't know....it all looks as if it could stand to reason to me...mostly that dumbells are superior to BB....due to the fuller ROM.



Posted by: Yanick

Quote:
EMG

Lawrence and DeLuca (1983, cited in Enoka and Fuglevand, 1993), suggest that EMG measurements during a MVIC are known to be somewhat unreliable. Howard and Enoka (1991, cited in Enoka and Fuglevand, 1993) found that on three repetitions of a knee extensor MVIC the average EMG varied substantially while the force remained constant. The authors therefore cautioned against using EMG as a direct representation of the activation of motor units of a muscle at high forces such as during an MVIC. The EMG recordings from surface electrodes are a result of summation of randomly occurring action potentials from numerous motor units. According to an unpublished dissertation by Fuglevand (1989, cited in Enoka and Fuglevand, 1993, p222), a motor unit action potential is influenced by:

* the number and size of fibers innervated by the motor unit,
* the spatial orientation of the fibers relative to the electrode,
* the electrode configuration and dimensions,
* the conduction velocity of the fiber action potential,
* the spatial relationship of the electrode to the innervation zone, and the length of the muscle fibers.
From Here



Posted by: Mudge

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWGriffin
I don't know....it all looks as if it could stand to reason to me...mostly that dumbells are superior to BB....due to the fuller ROM.
Why is that superior?



Posted by: DOMS

I thought that an exericse with a greater ROM recruited more fibers and was, generally, superior than an exercise a lesser ROM.

But I guess there's a trade off, you can get a greater ROM (and additional use of stabalizer muscles) when using DBs but you can use a greater load when using BBs. Come to think of it, I guess that neither is better than the other, they're just different.



Posted by: god hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
Please explain exactly why they are laughable.
Concentration dumbbell curls - 80? Please! More like a 100



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by god hand
Concentration dumbbell curls - 80? Please! More like a 100
Why because YOU feel them more than other movements? That is meaningless.

Nobody said that EMG studies are the holy grail of bodybuilding, but they do have their place in teaches us how certain exercises, grips, and angles affect our muscles.



Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
Why because YOU feel them more than other movements? That is meaningless.

Nobody said that EMG studies are the holy grail of bodybuilding, but they do have their place in teaches us how certain exercises, grips, and angles affect our muscles.



I love godhand.





Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
Why because YOU feel them more than other movements? That is meaningless.

Nobody said that EMG studies are the holy grail of bodybuilding, but they do have their place in teaches us how certain exercises, grips, and angles affect our muscles.
No no, he's right. His ability to determine the amount of electrical activity occuring in a muscle is superior to that of scientific measuring equipment.

My take on EMGs is that they mean something, but probably not by themselves. Tension is a precursor to growth, not electrical activity. I think it would be highly beneficial to study the correlation between tension and electrical activity that occurs in a muscle to see how much information an EMG can truly provide.



Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudge
Why is that superior?
They prolly aren't. But I think you can get a fuller muscle contraction in the pecs with DB presses of any angle...But everybody's different...I've seen great results with both.



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
No no, he's right. His ability to determine the amount of electrical activity occuring in a muscle is superior to that of scientific measuring equipment.

My take on EMGs is that they mean something, but probably not by themselves. Tension is a precursor to growth, not electrical activity. I think it would be highly beneficial to study the correlation between tension and electrical activity that occurs in a muscle to see how much information an EMG can truly provide.
He probably can speak to the dead as well.

I agree, I would love to see a study like you have mentioned. My personal opinion is that EMG is more useful to bodybuilding than many people think, and that electrical activity and tension are well correlated. Hopefully we will see some evidence of this in the future.



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
He probably can speak to the dead as well.

I agree, I would love to see a study like you have mentioned. My personal opinion is that EMG is more useful to bodybuilding than many people think, and that electrical activity and tension are well correlated. Hopefully we will see some evidence of this in the future.
Indeed. As for now, I think EMG studies are still useful to some degree. It does seem to me like they would definitely have some kind of relationship, even if it isn't linear.



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
Indeed. As for now, I think EMG studies are still useful to some degree. It does seem to me like they would definitely have some kind of relationship, even if it isn't linear.




Posted by: god hand

..............



Posted by: Dale Mabry

You would have to think that say 92% stimulation of a muscle group would be a function of power than anything else. You could activate 92% of your fibers in a given exercise, but if 92% is activated for only 1 second and then only 40% are activated for the remainder of the repetition, and the lift takes 3 seconds, it is relatively worthless.



Posted by: Prince

for those of you that say they are "useful" tell me how YOU use them in your own personal training?



Posted by: myCATpowerlifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
for those of you that say they are "useful" tell me how YOU use them in your own personal training?
Owned.



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
for those of you that say they are "useful" tell me how YOU use them in your own personal training?
Well, I am not going to get into the debate of working sections of a muscle again because it is useless to do so here.



Posted by: Prince

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
Well, I am not going to get into the debate of working sections of a muscle again because it is useless to do so here.
Neither am I...but who in their right mind goes into the gym and says "hmmm...I am on triceps today so I will do tricep pushdowns since EMG studies showed more muscle fiber stimulation than close grip bench press."



Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio
Neither am I...but who in their right mind goes into the gym and says "hmmm...I am on triceps today so I will do tricep pushdowns since EMG studies showed more muscle fiber stimulation than close grip bench press."

An EMG study will, 9 times out of 10, show an exercise that you are not used to doing with more fiber stimulation. So, if you do flat BB bench press for 8 straight weeks you will show a larger amount of fiber stimulation on the incline BB bench press. But, after you adapt to that for a few weeks it will change again once you move onto something else.

I don't understand how anyway would use the EMG in their training either. The only thing it seems to be beneficial for is to prove to you that you need to vary your exerises to prevent your body from adapting to certain movements.



Posted by: CowPimp

You guys don't believe there is any kind of relationship between tension and electrical activity?



Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
You guys don't believe there is any kind of relationship between tension and electrical activity?

I believe there is.



Posted by: Dale Mabry

There is definitely a relationship, whether or not it is strong remains to be seen. I would say that a greater TUT leads to greater activity, but greater activity doesn't lead to greater TUT.

An explosive lift would lead to a very high level of activity, but the TUT is small.



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
There is definitely a relationship, whether or not it is strong remains to be seen. I would say that a greater TUT leads to greater activity, but greater activity doesn't lead to greater TUT.

An explosive lift would lead to a very high level of activity, but the TUT is small.
Yeah, fair enough. I see your point. It would definitely help to see the training age and tempo used for these exercises listed.



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
There is definitely a relationship, whether or not it is strong remains to be seen. I would say that a greater TUT leads to greater activity, but greater activity doesn't lead to greater TUT.

An explosive lift would lead to a very high level of activity, but the TUT is small.
Well obviously an EMG would only be useful if the relative load and TUT is kept constant throughout all exercises within a given body part. It would be moronic to do it any other way.



Posted by: myCATpowerlifts

Indeed.



Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
Well obviously an EMG would only be useful if the relative load and TUT is kept constant throughout all exercises within a given body part. It would be moronic to do it any other way.
Yes, but then your results are only valuable lifting at that speed. If there is a relationship between TUT and EMG activity, you would use the same muscle lifting at different speeds.



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
Yes, but then your results are only valuable lifting at that speed. If there is a relationship between TUT and EMG activity, you would use the same muscle lifting at different speeds.
Tension increases as the concentric lifting speed increases as well though.



Posted by: Dale Mabry

Yes, a U-shaped graph would be how it would pan out.



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
Yes, but then your results are only valuable lifting at that speed. If there is a relationship between TUT and EMG activity, you would use the same muscle lifting at different speeds.
1. If you watch most people in the gym train, lifting speed is pretty much constant...about a 1-2 second eccentric...a pause of zero to one second...and a concenctric of X to 1 second.

2. I agree that studies should be done using a few different "reasonable" lifting speeds and results compared.

3. I am more concerned with results regarding areas of the muscle showing the most activity.



Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro

3. I am more concerned with results regarding areas of the muscle showing the most activity.

You mean like upper/lower, etc?



Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
You mean like upper/lower, etc?





Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
You mean like upper/lower, etc?
Upper/Lower
Short Head/Long Head
Inner/Outer
Anterior/Lateral/Posterior

Depends on the muscle.



Posted by: Dale Mabry

gotcha



Posted by: topolo

Dale leave Gp alone. I won't stand for you harassing him.



Posted by: Dale Mabry

I wasn't harassing him, I believe that you can activate the sternal and clavicular heads of the pec major separately. It is at least physiologically possible, whether it happens remains to be seen.



Posted by: topolo

One could theorize that it is physiologically possible but I know of no evidence to support the conclusion that the heads can be activated separately.



Posted by: Dale Mabry

Is there evidence that it does not happen?



Posted by: topolo

Yes, but it is a secret.......you have to be a mason.



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by topolo
One could theorize that it is physiologically possible but I know of no evidence to support the conclusion that the heads can be activated separately.
The best evidence is empirical.



Posted by: topolo

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
The best evidence is empirical.
Not really GP, eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. Having said that, if you say it is true........I believe you!



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by topolo
Not really GP, eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. Having said that, if you say it is true........I believe you!
Well, there is a slight difference between eyewitness testimony of an event, and the visual data collected over 15 years of observation



Posted by: topolo

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
Well, there is a slight difference between eyewitness testimony of an event, and the visual data collected over 15 years of observation

As I said earlier......if you say it, I believe it.



Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally Posted by topolo
As I said earlier......if you say it, I believe it.
Well, thank you for the confidence you have in me my friend!




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