Stretching/flexability [Forum Archive]

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Stretching/flexability

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Posted by: P-funk

I am going to make a sticky on stretching and flexability since a lot of people ask about it and since a lot of people seem to have the same joint and muscle pains that stretching can help alleviate and/or prevent.

Here is the first link. Pretty good. It is full of everything from static stretching to dynamic stretching. So, check it out:

stretching

The next one is an article from the National Academy of Sports Medecine (NASM) on Self-Myofascial Release Techniques using a foam roller. I am a big fan of this and it is important to take care of you tissue density. I perform this stuff as a pre-warm up before I train and on off days:

SMF

Hope everyone can get some use out of this. I will add more info as I come across things.

enjoy,
p

Posted by: DiGiTaL

Thanks P-funk. I always do my stretching and warms up bad.. This helps a lot

.
Thanks.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiGiTaL

Thanks P-funk. I always do my stretching and warms up bad.. This helps a lot

.
Thanks.

I wouldn't statically stretch pre-workout. A dynamic warm up of active stretching or movement training is crucial IMO though.

Posted by: CowPimp

Wow, that first link is really awesome. It gave me a lot of cool ideas. I'm going to have to try some of those dynamic moves with clients. Good find P!

A couple of other cool links:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/balls.htm - An article about dynamic warm-up moves with a medicine ball.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....4-021-training - Another SMF foam roller article.

Posted by: TDOGG

I have pain in my elbow that goes up my forearm especially when doing curling. May be tennis elbow are there any special stretchs I should try before seeing my doctor? I have stopped working upper body.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDOGG

I have pain in my elbow that goes up my forearm especially when doing curling. May be tennis elbow are there any special stretchs I should try before seeing my doctor? I have stopped working upper body.

tennis elbow is tendontis. I would rest and ice it up to get the inflamation down. You may want to check into a chiro that specializes in ART because that can really help tendonitis.

Posted by: TDOGG

Thanks, I have iced it and scheduled an appointment.TDOGG

Posted by: TheCurse

sweet links P, im going to start doing the dynamic stuff before lifting

Posted by: ST240

Heres another really good link that was in KataMasters sig

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/...etching_1.html

Posted by: mike456

Is this a good routine for flexability/warmup/stretching?
Warmup: 25 Jumping Jacks
Dynamic Flexibility:
Walking High Knees 1x6 Per Leg
Butt Kicks 1x10 Per Leg
Walking Straight Leg Kicks 1x10 Per Leg
Arm Swings Forward and Back 1x10
Side Bend Over and Back 1x10
Shoulder Circles 1x10
Reverse Shoulder Circles – 1x10
Weight Train
Static Stretching: 1x20sec
Kneeling Hip Flexor Stretch
Seated Groin Stretch
Ham-strings/low back Stretch
Calf Stretch
Anterior Shoulder Stretch
Rear Deltoid Stretch
Overhead Triceps Stretch
Doorway Chest Stretch
Overhead Lat Stretch
Upper Trap Stretch
Single Arm Wrist Flexor Stretch

It will be done 3-4 times a week because I weight train 3-4 times a week, and will be doing it only on training days.
My questions:
Is everything in the right order?
Do I have enough/too much stretching exercises?
The reason I an doing it is for more flexibility/mobility and it will also be used as a warmup for weight training.

Posted by: P-funk

are you tight in all those areas that you need to stretch them so much?? focus on the problem areas.

For example, here was what I did for my warm up today:

foam roll-
IT band
hip flexors
lats

static stretch-
hip flexors
lats

dynamic warm up
pendullum swings with legs (marching)
inch worms with push (protracting at the top of push up)
glute bridges squeezing med ball between knees
jump squats

workout

foam roll
it band
hip flexor
thoracic spine

static stretch
hip flexor
TFL
lats
peroneals

Posted by: AKIRA

I need to see this site when I get home tonight. The only one I can see is the NASM one, but it doesnt show an example of SMR for the lower back.

But the stretching one will prolly be Fav.ed in my browser.

Posted by: CowPimp

P, mike just asked me what I do for my static stretching, and that's what he's doing, heh.

You don't need to stretch out all of those areas if you aren't tight there, but I enjoy stretching all over my body and feel like it has provided nothing but benefits.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

P, mike just asked me what I do for my static stretching, and that's what he's doing, heh.

You don't need to stretch out all of those areas if you aren't tight there, but I enjoy stretching all over my body and feel like it has provided nothing but benefits.

I hear ya. It does feel great to strech all over.

Since it pertains to the discussion, here is an article from the NSCA Performance Training Journal about the negative effects of overstretching or stretching to much....

Possible Implications of Excessive Stretching on Sport Performance

By Joseph M Warpeha, MA, CSCS, NSCA-CPT

Since the birth of modern athletics, it seems like stretching and flexibility training have been as common to athletes' programs as the strength training or conditioning portions. Recently, however, it appears that some are questioning the value of vigorous stretching protocols and even suggesting that intense stretching may predispose certain athletes to musculoskeletal injury and cause others to perform at sub-optimal levels (7). This article does not discuss specific types of stretching, but rather seeks to briefly examine the topic of flexibility and the role excessive stretching may play in physical performance.

While many are undoubtedly aware of the definition of flexibility, a brief review is nevertheless warranted. A simplified explanation of the musculoskeletal system is that bones are connected to other bones by ligaments and where two bones meet is called a joint. Further, the actual movement of bones occurs as a result of transmitted force (via tendons, which connect muscle to bone) produced by contracting skeletal muscles. The range of motion (ROM) of a joint describes how "flexible" a joint is. The extent of a joint's ROM depends, to a large degree, on the connective tissue associated with the particular joint. Technically, flexibility is defined as the range of motion about a body joint (2) and describes the elastic properties and stretching capabilities of tendon, ligament, muscle, and fascia.

Prior to any type of flexibility training, each individual person has some degree of flexibility in each joint of their body. For the sake of this article, we will say that each person's degree of flexibility lies somewhere within a continuum ranging from poor to excellent. While each specific joint has its own unique ROM, it is common to find an "inflexible" person having poor ranges of motion across many major joints and vice versa. No matter what the starting point on the flexibility continuum, there is always the potential to increase joint ROM with flexibility training.

Various degrees of flexibility in specific joints are required for particular sports. For example, an Olympic weightlifter must have a certain degree of flexibility in the knees for the catch positions of the clean and the snatch, and the shoulders must have a certain ROM for the overhead portions of the jerk and snatch.

Most athletic movements have somewhat predictable ranges of motion that are not likely to be exceeded in the course of normal execution. For example, it is safe to say that the ranges of motion of the ankles, knees, and hips during long distance running on a flat surface are not particularly great. The question then becomes, why do distance runners who are not particularly inflexible spend so much time stretching their legs to extreme degrees (in terms of joint ranges of motion)? Let us hypothetically say that long distance running never involves knee flexion greater than ninety degrees. Why then would a runner perform vigorous stretching exercises like a standing quadriceps stretch that involves grabbing the foot/ankle behind the back and pulling towards the buttocks thus forcing the knee into extreme flexion, the likes of which are nowhere near the degree of flexion experienced while running? This is not the same thing as light stretching to "loosen up" which certainly has a place in warming up for activity or sport, nor should it be confused with a person who is "tight" and has poor flexibility and therefore requires a more thorough stretching program.

Decreased flexibility has been associated with increased in-line running and walking economy and increased stiffness may be associated with increased isometric and concentric force generation (6). Powers and Howley (8) also contend that a high degree of flexibility in all joints may not be desirable in all sports from an injury prevention standpoint. The specific example used by Powers and Howley in their discussion of flexibility focuses on the shoulder joint which is described as a structurally weak joint relative to other joints like the hip. The authors note that an increase in shoulder muscle mass might reduce shoulder flexibility but would lower the chance of shoulder injury in contact sports by increasing shoulder stability.

Regarding the power production aspect, if the muscle-tendon unit becomes more easily lengthened or stretched, it will take a longer period of time and will require increased muscle shortening to achieve the same degree of skeletal movement than it would if the muscle-tendon unit was "stiffer" or had less "give." Every muscle fiber has an optimal range at which the greatest potential exists for force production and when that specific length is exceeded (>10 – 15%), force production potential drops off appreciably (4). Therefore, it stands to reason that one would not want to force the muscle to contract in that less-than-optimal range. Additionally, since power is the amount of work per unit time, time is a crucial parameter. Increasing the force transmission time (from muscle to bone) will decrease power for any given amount of work. Obviously, if rate of force development (speed) is increased then power could be maintained, but this would be less efficient. Wallmann et al.(9) demonstrated that vertical jump height was negatively affected by static stretching of the gastrocnemius prior to the jumping event, despite the fact that muscle activity (measured by EMG) was greater during the pre-stretch condition when compared to condition involving no pre-stretching.

As far as mechanical efficiency is concerned, excessive stretching also may increase the laxity or "looseness" of ligaments (the connective tissue that holds bones together and aids in joint stability). If joint stiffness (which is affected by muscle and tendon properties, in addition to ligament) is reduced, more time and energy are required to stabilize the joint. Imagine a pair of twins who are identical in every single way (training history, strength, size, aerobic capacity, etc.). One twin runs a mile on a flat track at nine miles per hour and the other runs a mile on a flat sandy beach at the same nine miles per hour pace. Who expends more energy running the mile? Obviously, the twin that ran on the beach had a much harder time because he or she had to expend more energy every step to stabilize the ankles, knees, and hips due to the very unstable sandy ground. Now let us say both of these twins were running on the track and the only difference between the two was that one was an intense, chronic stretcher and the other did very little structured flexibility training and, as a result, the twin that performed a lot of stretching had a much greater degree of joint laxity in the lower body. If they both ran a mile at the same pace and everything other than joint laxity was equal, chances are the twin with more laxity would be less mechanically efficient because of the increased energy expenditure required to stabilize the looser joints.

Cal Dietz, Head Olympic Strength Coach at the University of Minnesota, tells a story relevant to this discussion about a basketball player he recently worked with (5). The freshman forward came in very well-trained and had incredible flexibility (he was able to do the splits) as a result of the very intense and thorough stretching program he had always used. Coaches commented that this player lacked a "first step" and his explosiveness and ability to change direction was not as good as it should be as evidenced by his Pro Agility test score. Three months of an intense plyometric and strength program had no effect. Coach Dietz instructed this player to stop his intense stretching routine. The basketball coaches were unaware of this change to the player's routine and after three to four months commented on the marked improvement in his first step and explosiveness. His Pro Agility test score also improved. Obviously, this is only an anecdotal report and there could be multiple reasons for this player's dramatic improvement, but it certainly raises questions about the possible effects that excessive stretching has on sport performance.

It is important to note that this article is directed at athletic performance and excessive stretching. Athletics and performance is a very different topic than the general population and health and fitness. It is a widely held belief that flexibility training and stretching should be performed by everybody in order to maintain (or increase) the flexibility of the major joints to the point that flexibility is equivalent to the ROM required in activities of daily living (1). While the evidence for a relationship between poor flexibility and low back health is limited, some contend that major health concerns like low back injury do have an association with poor trunk (mainly low back and hamstrings) flexibility(3) so an effort to increase the flexibility of the related joints should not be ignored.
References

1. American College of Sports Medicine. (2006). ACSM's guidelines for exercise testing and prescription, 7th edition. Baltimore: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins.

2. Baechle TR, Earle RW. (2000). Essentials of strength training and conditioning, 2nd edition. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics.

3. Baumgartner TA, Jackson AS, Mahar MT, Rowe DA. (2003). Measurement for evaluation in physical education and exercise science, 7th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill.

4. Brooks GA, Fahey TD, Baldwin KM. (2005). Exercise physiology: human bioenergetics and its applications, 4th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill.

5. Dietz C. Personal communication. April 12, 2006.

6. Gleim GW, McHugh MP. (1997). Flexibility and its effects on sports injury and performance. Sports Medicine. 24(5):289 – 299.

7. Ingraham SJ. (2003). The role of flexibility in injury prevention and athletic performance. Minnesota Medicine. v. 86.

8. Powers SK, Howley ET. (2004). Exercise physiology: theory and application to fitness and performance, 5th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill.

9. Wallmann HW, Mercer JA, McWhorter JW (2005). Surface electromyographic assessment of the effect of static stretching of the gastrocnemius on vertical jump performance. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. 19(3):684 – 688.
About the Author

Joe Warpeha is an exercise physiologist and strength coach and is currently working on his PhD in exercise physiology at the University of Minnesota-Minneapolis. His current research focuses on bone and tendon adaptations to training and the effects of skeletal loading on their physiological and mechanical properties. Joe teaches several courses at UM including "advanced weight training and conditioning" and "measurement, evaluation, and research in kinesiology". He has a master's degree in exercise physiology and certifications through the NSCA, ACSM, USAW, ASEP, and YMCA. He has over 14 years of resistance and aerobic training experience and has been a competitive powerlifter since 1997. Joe is a two-time national bench press champion and holds multiple state and national records in the bench press while competing in the 148, 165, and 181-pound weight classes.

Posted by: mike456

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

P, mike just asked me what I do for my static stretching, and that's what he's doing, heh.

You don't need to stretch out all of those areas if you aren't tight there, but I enjoy stretching all over my body and feel like it has provided nothing but benefits.

I made a few changes

Posted by: P-funk

also, I would do more then 1 set of 20sec. I typically try to do 3 sets of each stretch for a 20 count hold (2 sets if I am in a rush). Just got back and forth between limbs and it goes pretty quickly.

Posted by: Bakerboy

I hope the younger guys realize the gold mine of information they get from you mods. When I was 15 all I had for information about strength training was a bunch of books from bodybuilders in the late 70's and 80's. In one of those books I still remember staring at a picture of Lou in his bare feet showing how to do a proper squat. He was talking about breathing techniques during 20 rep squats. Now there are video clips for every exercise known to man.

Posted by: CowPimp

Interesting read there P. I have actually recently changed my flexibility program around a bit to focus more on my weak points. I realized that I was spending too much time on flexibility training when my flexibility was already good in most every respect.

For example, my anterior shoulder capsule is dreadfully tight on my right arm (The one I injured a little under a year ago). I hold this stretch longer than any other stretch I do. My lats also tend to be a little tight, so I give them a nice long stretch as well. Foam rolling my lats has helped significantly though.

My lower body flexibility is pretty good all around, though my TFL is a little tight, so I hold that stretch longer than any other. My hamstrings and lower back are plenty flexible, I only hold those stretches for 15 seconds or so, and I don't tend to push it too far. That is, I just do maintenance level holds for most of my stretches, save for the ones that I feel need improvement.

Posted by: P-funk

what stretch are you doing for your anterior capsule?

I usually stretch my posterior capsule out by lying on one side, the arm on the ground is abducted to 90 degrees, elbow flexed at 90 degress and then my arm in the air applies pressure to the fist of the arm on the ground and presses it into interal rotation to stretch the external rotators (posterior capsule).

Posted by: CowPimp

You know the test of shoulder flexiblity where you try to clasp your hands together behind your back? It's like that, but I pass a strap to the arm up top and pull up with my other arm.

Posted by: P-funk

gotcha.

Posted by: AKIRA

Holy shit CowPimp, I didnt know you were that flexible!

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Holy shit CowPimp, I didnt know you were that flexible!

I'm not that flexible, I'm just more flexible than your average person in a variety of joints, but that isn't saying much. Most people are horrendously tight all over the place.

Posted by: AKIRA

No no, what I mean is the guy in the stretching page looks just like you.

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

No no, what I mean is the guy in the stretching page looks just like you.

Hahaha!

Posted by: shiznit2169

Just imagine how amazing it would be if we had the flexibility of gymnasts. Damn, they sure are strong!

Posted by: AKIRA

Hey P, I gotta a question for you on a stretching pic's caption.

For the lower body, when you lay on your back and brin gboth knees to you chest, it says to hold them in between the legs and not on top. Why not on top?

Posted by: P-funk

you mean hold them under the legs? like hands on the hamstrings?

Posted by: P-funk

Found some pictures of anterior, inferior and posterior capsule stretches for the shoulder. Will throw them up here for anyone that needs to add them to their program. *hint hint*

shoulder health

Posted by: P-funk

and another one.

picture 4 is the posterior capsule stretch i was reffering to earlier.

shoulder health part 2

Posted by: AKIRA

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

you mean hold them under the legs? like hands on the hamstrings?

Yeah it says to do that, but not on the front. I guess that would mean hands on the knees or shins.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Yeah it says to do that, but not on the front. I guess that would mean hands on the knees or shins.

holding in front, ontop of the shings, will probably make you pull harder and place you into a g reater anterior pelvic tilt. I really don't know the reason for sure though.

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

and another one.

picture 4 is the posterior capsule stretch i was reffering to earlier.

shoulder health part 2

Good stuff. I really like that stretch. I'm pretty tight there on my right side too. I'm definitely going to incorporate that stetch into my program now. Stretch 5 is the one I said I did for the anterior capsule, except I use a nylon strap. They say "posterior/superior," which makes more sense because you're going into internal rotation and adduction.

Posted by: lilbittle

I love static & dynamic stretching. I will have to try the faom rolling next.. Thanks P-Funk

Posted by: Seanp156

lawl, that guy reminds me of Cowpimp.

Posted by: Alpha

This is good stuff. Thanks a bunch P-funk!

Posted by: Richie1888

is the dynamic stretching advisable to people with poor ROM ?

Posted by: BringinToddBack

very helpful.

Posted by: Blooming Lotus

nice thread P-Funk. Good on you

Posted by: Double D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie1888

is the dynamic stretching advisable to people with poor ROM ?

Normally poor flexibility needs to be corrected with static stretching.

Posted by: Blooming Lotus

ooh.. how contraversial.

Some ppl sweear by dynamic streching and others really totally oppose.

Ideally I'd think if you haave poor flexibility and are bringing in a stretching program that isokentic would probably both the safest and most effective way to go.. where you're strechting from diffrent angles and lengths on the same group or limb ..particularly if the muscle or limb is being worrked from different angles..

Hell yEs a good stretch sesh can feel awesome!.. good comment whoever said that

.

Blooming lotus.

Posted by: diamondxar

I would stretch after two and a half hours of cardio workouts and weight training. Is that a good idea?

Posted by: njc

Cow Pimp, P-funk, whoever else,

would you guys mind posting your entire stretching regime? When you do the stretches, how you place them around your different training sessions and for each bodypart? And what you do on your off days. I would love to view them.

Posted by: lifterjake

good info here

Posted by: charliemurphy9

nice thread

Posted by: NFOMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I wouldn't statically stretch pre-workout. A dynamic warm up of active stretching or movement training is crucial IMO though.

Yo, Man.

I love sretching, although they kill the shit our of my muscles! I do hanging lifts with stretching, and I do with lat pullups & dips. I don't do Swiss balls or steps.

Yep, I do the deadlifts, the squats, that keep me disclipined to get proper form (I ache day, each fucking day .. did each FUCKING DAY? ).

But I'm stretching ALWAYS! Damn! Why the f*ck am I stretching my abs, pecs, lats ... at night, waking me up at sleep? Always? ( My wife seems to accept the agressive grabs... but that is negotiable. Go figure.! (She must be a gem.)

Tommie

Posted by: UFo

check out this yt channel stretchexpert a lot of good stuff

he is much more concentrated on basketball, but there is a lot of stuff that will help increasing flexibility

Posted by: UFo

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFo

check out this yt channel stretchexpert a lot of good stuff

he is much more concentrated on basketball, but there is a lot of stuff that will help increasing flexibility

Posted by: Log

This is a very good explanation why we are not flexible and what to do to become flexible. Conventional stretches excluded.

YouTube - Hamstrings Flexibility

Posted by: livinlarge

i don't know but the knew thing is not to strech before workouts now because they say you are loosing the mucles and tendens around joints and you can loose control and hurt yourself you should stech after a workout or after you are done with your sets so that is what i have learned now i still strech before i workout but some of my cleints like to after wards and they have had good results so take as you will that is the now thing

Posted by: no pin no gin

Quote:

P-funk

You're very beautiful wonderful

Posted by: sumit01

stretching is the fist step before pumping up your body

Posted by: heliboy

that's some very helpful tips. Stretching is very important to prevent soreness.

__________________

Posted by: tucker01

http://www.robertsontrainingsystems....Techniques.pdf

Good stuff.

Posted by: 8jack

Stretching is good for health
stretching helps us to keep our body fit

_____________________________
Gmail Rocks Yahoo Mail Rocks

Posted by: juanmraz

i luv to play badminton which for sure using my right hand...i do some stretching b4 starts to play..after ive finished playing, i got pain at my back at right side..wat happen? am i done improper stretching?

Posted by: TouroExercise

Excellent links on shoulder health!

Posted by: AKIRA

Page Not Found!

Posted by: MAC24/7

nice thread

Posted by: thesaurus123

handy thanks

Posted by: Raymond Sugar

I usually stretch, then I punch and kick the heavy bag, punch my speed bag and kick my headache bag for about a half hour. I sometimes jump rope too.

Posted by: DUUUH

Great info

Posted by: verybigguy

nice job

Posted by: sweetjaymz

i usually hit the bike or treadmill for about 7 minutes then perform dynamic stretching prior to weight training or jiu jitsu and static after my workout... before kenpo or mma training usually static stretching with a partner

Posted by: jakebrake

Thanks

Posted by: cheappinz

great stretching ideas...nice bod digital..love the muscles

Posted by: maseco63

One thing I didn't see that I believe is important is stretching before a wko. "Static" Long stretches produce fluid between joints and tendons that can reduce strength before that big wko!

Posted by: crazylegs13

How does yoga build muscle?
I have tried everything and many people are suggesting yoga to increase my lean muscle and flexibility.

Posted by: sassy69

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazylegs13

How does yoga build muscle?
I have tried everything and many people are suggesting yoga to increase my lean muscle and flexibility.

I'm not sure it builds muscle as well as something like resistance training - I suppose you can develop a little in terms of strength to hold certain of the poses, but you're not really working any extension / contraction to tear down & build up muscle tissue. I think there's more to the conditioning and lengthening of muscles & stretching joints "functionally" than actually building.

It always fascinates me when people swear by yoga, but OMG I've seen some amazingly fat yoga instructors but they are hella flexible.

Also for those people who are literally disciples of yoga and practice it a LOT, I don't see them w/ nearly the mass I bring to the room from standard resistance training. If yoga "built muscle" wouldn't you expect to see some pretty jacked yoga people?

Posted by: CarbonFitness

hey there guys, new to IM

Posted by: Road Warrior

Great Links Bra!

Posted by: SiennaMein

Thank you so much for giving me such a nice information..this article really helps me bone joint and muscle pains problems...this article really gives such a very good information and some nice trips and tricks...!

Posted by: ramboris

Nice post!

Posted by: Nightowl

Thank you so much for this particular post(s). It is indeed something that I can really gain some insight toward making more in my exercises.

Posted by: RunningMan88

Thanks for the post. I have been working on my hamstrings for a few days now and I swear that my lifting and even my running has improved!

Posted by: caangelxox

When I try to stretch my hamstrings with straight legs sitting down, how come I have trouble trying to sit on my tailbone with my legs straight? There is another flexibility problem I have noticed as well. When I try to stretch my side muscles on a stability ball for example, I can feel the stretch in my side/QL when bending to the right, but I feel no stretch bending to the left in my side/QL. same thing with neck rotation - turning to the right is easier than turning to the left., but both sides are still not where its flexibility should be.

Anyone know where there are imbalances there? The neck issue, I have been trying to massage, roll (rhomboids, top of shoulder, massage neck with fingers or top of chair, etc) for a while now and it is not improving at all. I even roll my chest, that doesnt help but just loosen my shoulders. Neck rotation restriction is hurting me badily in sports like soccer and softball going back for balls coming straight towards me going over my head. I can never catch balls straight over my head because of it.

Posted by: Jay Q

Cool stuff. I always stretch before and after workouts (if not at the start, at least after the workout) as it helps reducing the pain/soreness afterward a bit. Every Bodybuilder should know about stretching, so thanks again!

Posted by: Rssmur

Thank you for the links, much appreciated!

Posted by: Bigbroful

hello

Posted by: beef1995

what are the pros of stretching? does it improve speed or help you grow?

Posted by: JulieGianni

Great stretching tips

Posted by: emma2train

Thanks alot, needed a refresher. I don't get to yoga as much as I used to. I'm really interested in the myofacial roller thing. Have you noticed a big difference by doing it, and how?

Posted by: emma2train

response to what are the pro's of stretching......
It helps prevent injuries and problems plus promoting circulation and all the benefits that comes from that. Not to mention the benefits flexibility can have during playtime

Posted by: eaglesfan!

does stretching help you grow or run faster?

Posted by: GainMuscle

Really enjoyed this thread. I use to be very flexible from Martial Arts training, still am a bit, but not as much because I don't focus on the stretching.

One thing I do find is that if I stretch before weight training, I just don't get the same strength that I do if I just do a quick dynamic warm up. I same any focused stretching for my rest day and after workouts (to focus on that particular muscle/group)

Posted by: eaglesfan!

why is it important to stretch after working out? if i dont stretch would that effect my flexibility?

Posted by: whitemike370

hahahaha

Posted by: steelfrog

I like it

Posted by: thepunisher000

Awesome post. Now I can try to work on increasing hamstring/lower back flexibility so I can squat and deadlift without my lower back rounding ridiculously.

Posted by: missiontomuscle

I've always been a big fan of stretching before workouts. Especially PNF stretching on chest before benchpress.

Not sure if there are any studies pro or against stretching before/after workouts though?

Posted by: !Fighter

Stretching is good, especially when women are doing it.

Posted by: amonroe

Awesome info - thanks! That first link you gave has loads of good pictures, it'd be awesome if they made a YouTube tutorial as well...

Posted by: wolf2009

Nice share...and a really wonderful read

Posted by: jmpsuperman

Thanks for the post!!!

Posted by: Alexa1

Thanks for the detailed stretching instructions. I reduced my streacing lately and I have shoulder and knees pain.

Posted by: King.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf2009

Nice share...and a really wonderful read

.....

Posted by: Tomn

thanks for this info, i need some tips on proper stretching

Posted by: Kenny Croxdale

Quote:

Originally Posted by missiontomuscle

I've always been a big fan of stretching before workouts. Especially PNF stretching on chest before benchpress.

Not sure if there are any studies pro or against stretching before/after workouts though?

missiontomuscle,

Yes, there is research on stretching.

When To Stretch

Research has demonstrated that prior to your workout decreases strength and power output. Thus, stretching before your workout isn't the best time.

String Cheese

The most effective time to stretch is at the end of your workout. That because you connective tissue is more supple and elastic.

Think of you connnective tissue as string cheese. When it's cold, it is ridig and unflexible.

After you warm it up, it is more pliable and elastic.

Soreness

Also, stretching after your workout appears to decrease sorness.

Exceptions To The Stretching Rule

Dynamic stretching prior to a movement is the exception to the rule. Dynamic stretching employs a slight bounce in the movement.

A dynamic stretch increase blood flow to the area and as prepares the stretch reflex in the connective tissue for work to come.

The stretch reflex is a "rubber band" like effect that allows you to produce more power. Connective tissue that is stretched with the right amount of tension, "springs" back just like a rubber band pops back after it is stretched.

Kenny Croxdale

Posted by: cad500

Thanks for the info. Interesting read.

Posted by: ThicknCurvy

Stretch 15-30 mins before and after workouts. Used to be a dance major.

Contrary to popular ideologies, dancers train their legs & core 6x week. They don't take off 2-3 days between leg workouts. They do bar work & floor work that is equivalent to the free weights (admittedly most is for endurance and not strength) and then they perform every day, which is the equivalent of functional training.

In over 20 years of dancing, I never once was incapacitated for a torn or pulled muscle. I did injure ligaments & tendons but never muscles. I'm convinced it's because of the amount of stretching dancers do before & after workouts. They also stretch when laying around with friends or sitting in front of the TV.

Most people -- if they stretch at all -- stretch for 5 minutes then lift weights for 90 minutes... hence the reason for so many pulled & ruptured muscles!

Posted by: ThicknCurvy

Old dance instructor, a mean old ballet mistress from Russia, used to tell us that we had to hold a stretch for at least 3 minutes to make the muscle fatigue and drop their resistance to the stretch. Once that happens, the muscle collapses/relaxes allowing you to stretch it further and hence increases your flexibility.

Never seen any published research proving her theory but it worked for me & everyone else with whom I studied. At almost 48, and without stretching for nearly 20 years on any regular basis, I'm not as flexible as when I danced & tumbled but still more flexible than 99% of 18 year olds.

Posted by: Kenny Croxdale

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThicknCurvy

Old dance instructor, a mean old ballet mistress from Russia, used to tell us that we had to hold a stretch for at least 3 minutes to make the muscle fatigue and drop their resistance to the stretch. Once that happens, the muscle collapses/relaxes allowing you to stretch it further and hence increases your flexibility.

Never seen any published research proving her theory but it worked for me & everyone else with whom I studied. At almost 48, and without stretching for nearly 20 years on any regular basis, I'm not as flexible as when I danced & tumbled but still more flexible than 99% of 18 year olds.

ThicknCurvy,

PNF (proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation) stretching

PNF stretching that you are refer to has been around for quite a while. There is plenty of research on it. It is utilized a lot in rehabilatition.

It is not necessary to hold a stretch for hold the stretch for three minutes to fatigue the muscle to allow a deeper stretch.

Kenny Croxdale

Posted by: Kenny Croxdale

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThicknCurvy

Stretch 15-30 mins before and after workouts. Used to be a dance major.

Contrary to popular ideologies, dancers train their legs & core 6x week. They don't take off 2-3 days between leg workouts. They do bar work & floor work that is equivalent to the free weights (admittedly most is for endurance and not strength) and then they perform every day, which is the equivalent of functional training.

In over 20 years of dancing, I never once was incapacitated for a torn or pulled muscle. I did injure ligaments & tendons but never muscles. I'm convinced it's because of the amount of stretching dancers do before & after workouts. They also stretch when laying around with friends or sitting in front of the TV.

Most people -- if they stretch at all -- stretch for 5 minutes then lift weights for 90 minutes... hence the reason for so many pulled & ruptured muscles!

ThicknCurvy,

Pulled & Ruptured Muscle

Lack of stretching isn't the cause of pulled and ruptured muscle.

The primary reason for a ruptured muscle is overexertion. That means pushing a muscle beyond it capacity.

It like loading up a barbell with 500 lbs when it rated to hold 400 lbs. You've overload the capacity of the bar.

When you do that a bar will bend and eventually break/rupture.

Kenny Croxdale

Posted by: ThicknCurvy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Hey Kenny:
Dancers & gymnasts work the same muscle group for 6-8+ hours/day and often 6 days a week. If ever an athlete should rupture muscles from overexertion, it would be dancers & gymnasts. I can do a two hour leg day with 100 sets including maxing out my weight. Despite this, I never walk out of the gym with weaker legs than I did after a long ballet class.

Anecdotal studies of professional athletes, who started studying dance, yoga, pilates, martial arts concurrently with playing football, baseball etc, reveal less muscle injuries ... perhaps in part because of better understanding of the the kinesiology but also because of the consistent stretching balancing the stress on the muscle group on intense weight days.

My own training partner is a former fitness competitor. She's guided my muscle development & I her flexibility. I now have her stretching every day and taking yoga a couple of times a week. It's allowed her to dramatically improve her strength & endurance at 48 years old.

I'm new to the muscle & fitness world so I'm definitely looking to learn from everyone but added the post re stretching because I've seen bodybuilders I've dated completely ignore its role in developing a great physique and because I've seen it make such a huge difference for my training partner in the 9 months we've been training together.

Posted by: Kenny Croxdale

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThicknCurvy

Hi Michelle,

Dancer and Gymnast

They certainly put in a lot of training time. It can lead to come chronic problems.

However, most muscle tears are created from pushing the muscle beyond it capaticy in high intensity movements that require an enormous amount of force production.

The force placed on the muscles and connective tissue is beyond it capacity. I had a slight pec tear at a powerlifting meet a few years ago for just that reason. The tear healed and I still compete.

Barbell Analogy

Let's go back to the barbell analogy. Barbells in gym spend a lot of time in use...somewhat like dancers and gymnast.

What cause a bar to bend is too much force being applied to them.

As long as the load place on the bar are below it rating of 400 lbs, there is not problem.

400 lb Bar

A 400 lb barbell that is overloaded with let's say 600 lbs is going to bend or snap apart. I guarantee it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThicknCurvy

Anecdotal studies of professional athletes, who started studying dance, yoga, pilates, martial arts concurrently with playing football, baseball etc, reveal less muscle injuries ... perhaps in part because of better understanding of the the kinesiology but also because of the consistent stretching balancing the stress on the muscle group on intense weight days.

Research Contradiction

A multitude of research has demonstrated that stretching doen't not decrease injuries.

Anectotal Information

In all my year of working with athletes to increaze strength, I have not seen or found stretching to decrease injuries.

Howeever...

Stretching Has It's Place

Stretching is a viable training tool. One of the most intereting aspects of stretching is that by stretching the Antagonist Muscle (the muscles not being exercised) more power and strength can be produced by the Agnoist Muscle (the muscles being worked).

That means if you stretch your lats (Antagoinist Muscle) before bench press (Agonist Muscle), you can exert more force...more strength and power.

Reciprocal Inhibition

Stretching the Antogonist Muscle allows it to relax so that you can produce more force with the Angonist Muscles.

It also, as you pointed out in a previous post, allows you to perform a deeper stretch (PFN Stretching).

Stetching also appears to alievate the Delayed Onset of Muscle Sorness. I believe there is something to that.

Stretching also has some other positives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThicknCurvy

My own training partner is a former fitness competitor. She's guided my muscle development & I her flexibility. I now have her stretching every day and taking yoga a couple of times a week. It's allowed her to dramatically improve her strength & endurance at 48 years old.

I have no doubt we could all learn something from your stretching.

One of the most interesting things is it use in increasing muscle mass and perhaps some strength.

Facial Stretching For Bodybuiders John Parillo

I agree with Parrillo's stretching method.

..."unique stretching exercises are designed to stretch the protective sheath of connective tissue which surrounds the muscle, expanding the fascia, enabling the muscles to grow. Fascial stretching can actually help increase strength by as much as 20 percent when done correctly." Welcome to Parrillo Performance

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThicknCurvy

I'm new to the muscle & fitness world so I'm definitely looking to learn from everyone but added the post re stretching because I've seen bodybuilders I've dated completely ignore its role in developing a great physique and because I've seen it make such a huge difference for my training partner in the 9 months we've been training together.

Learning

Learning is an endless process. So, we are all in this together.

Stretching For A Great Physique

This is definitely one area that bodybuilder neglect as well as strength athletes (limit strength, power and speed athletes).

Kenny Croxdale

Posted by: safavisr

Good to know

Posted by: Grizzly Adams

Great info!

Posted by: That_Muscle_Guy

thx, i might need to looking into this. Coaches always giving me shit about flexibility

Posted by: bagram09

lovin the buddha comments

Posted by: mljoshua

thanks for this - I think we get so involved with the workout, sometimes we forget just how important and beneficial stretching can be.

Michael
5X5 Workout

Posted by: platinumabs

this seems really interesting

Posted by: mljoshua

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Wow, that first link is really awesome. It gave me a lot of cool ideas. I'm going to have to try some of those dynamic moves with clients. Good find P!

A couple of other cool links:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/balls.htm - An article about dynamic warm-up moves with a medicine ball.

T NATION | Feel Better for 10 Bucks - Another SMF foam roller article.

Hey - the feel the burn comment in your sig line made me laugh - thanks

Posted by: HH25

GREAT INFO GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: mljoshua

Thanks - I needed these too. It seems that I hurry through my warmups and end up regretting it.

Posted by: MidWest

Great thread. Thanks

Posted by: Musculation

Nice share... thanks a lot !

Posted by: lift2grow

I know stretching between sets can be beneficial; is stretching after a workout ok?

Posted by: Kenny Croxdale

Quote:

Originally Posted by lift2grow

I know stretching between sets can be beneficial; is stretching after a workout ok?

Yes.

Tendons and ligaments are like string cheeze. They are more supple when "heated up". Thus, at the end of a workout is a great place for them.

Kenny Croxdale

Posted by: stfuandliftbtch

The stretching article was good, too bad the site forgot to add proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation stretching. It is THE best form of stretching and hopefully will have a some clients that are interested in just being PNF stretched once i get my NSCA certification in a week or two!

Posted by: effinrob

just start doing yoga... plus all the hot girls love us guys in there

Posted by: MuscleGauge1

Great Post
Probably one of the most important things out there and most people always forget to do it. They wonder why they get injured so much....

Posted by: globaltrade

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Hey P, I gotta a question for you on a stretching pic's caption.

For the lower body, when you lay on your back and brin gboth knees to you chest, it says to hold them in between the legs and not on top. Why not on top?

Thanks for sharing! that is cool! hhahah!

Posted by: mljoshua

This helps a lot - Like so many others, sometimes I hurry through my warmups. Great reminder to do it right

Posted by: striker4you

thanks, stretching is something I need to incorporate

Posted by: fienelarinsare

thanks,useful

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Stretching/flexability

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