Stretching/flexability [Forum Archive]

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Stretching/flexability

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Posted by: P-funk

I am going to make a sticky on stretching and flexability since a lot of people ask about it and since a lot of people seem to have the same joint and muscle pains that stretching can help alleviate and/or prevent.

Here is the first link. Pretty good. It is full of everything from static stretching to dynamic stretching. So, check it out:

stretching

The next one is an article from the National Academy of Sports Medecine (NASM) on Self-Myofascial Release Techniques using a foam roller. I am a big fan of this and it is important to take care of you tissue density. I perform this stuff as a pre-warm up before I train and on off days:

SMF

Hope everyone can get some use out of this. I will add more info as I come across things.

enjoy,
p

Posted by: DiGiTaL

Thanks P-funk. I always do my stretching and warms up bad.. This helps a lot

.
Thanks.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiGiTaL

Thanks P-funk. I always do my stretching and warms up bad.. This helps a lot

.
Thanks.

I wouldn't statically stretch pre-workout. A dynamic warm up of active stretching or movement training is crucial IMO though.

Posted by: CowPimp

Wow, that first link is really awesome. It gave me a lot of cool ideas. I'm going to have to try some of those dynamic moves with clients. Good find P!

A couple of other cool links:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/balls.htm - An article about dynamic warm-up moves with a medicine ball.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....4-021-training - Another SMF foam roller article.

Posted by: TDOGG

I have pain in my elbow that goes up my forearm especially when doing curling. May be tennis elbow are there any special stretchs I should try before seeing my doctor? I have stopped working upper body.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDOGG

I have pain in my elbow that goes up my forearm especially when doing curling. May be tennis elbow are there any special stretchs I should try before seeing my doctor? I have stopped working upper body.

tennis elbow is tendontis. I would rest and ice it up to get the inflamation down. You may want to check into a chiro that specializes in ART because that can really help tendonitis.

Posted by: TDOGG

Thanks, I have iced it and scheduled an appointment.TDOGG

Posted by: TheCurse

sweet links P, im going to start doing the dynamic stuff before lifting

Posted by: ST240

Heres another really good link that was in KataMasters sig

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/...etching_1.html

Posted by: mike456

Is this a good routine for flexability/warmup/stretching?
Warmup: 25 Jumping Jacks
Dynamic Flexibility:
Walking High Knees 1x6 Per Leg
Butt Kicks 1x10 Per Leg
Walking Straight Leg Kicks 1x10 Per Leg
Arm Swings Forward and Back 1x10
Side Bend Over and Back 1x10
Shoulder Circles 1x10
Reverse Shoulder Circles – 1x10
Weight Train
Static Stretching: 1x20sec
Kneeling Hip Flexor Stretch
Seated Groin Stretch
Ham-strings/low back Stretch
Calf Stretch
Anterior Shoulder Stretch
Rear Deltoid Stretch
Overhead Triceps Stretch
Doorway Chest Stretch
Overhead Lat Stretch
Upper Trap Stretch
Single Arm Wrist Flexor Stretch

It will be done 3-4 times a week because I weight train 3-4 times a week, and will be doing it only on training days.
My questions:
Is everything in the right order?
Do I have enough/too much stretching exercises?
The reason I an doing it is for more flexibility/mobility and it will also be used as a warmup for weight training.

Posted by: P-funk

are you tight in all those areas that you need to stretch them so much?? focus on the problem areas.

For example, here was what I did for my warm up today:

foam roll-
IT band
hip flexors
lats

static stretch-
hip flexors
lats

dynamic warm up
pendullum swings with legs (marching)
inch worms with push (protracting at the top of push up)
glute bridges squeezing med ball between knees
jump squats

workout

foam roll
it band
hip flexor
thoracic spine

static stretch
hip flexor
TFL
lats
peroneals

Posted by: AKIRA

I need to see this site when I get home tonight. The only one I can see is the NASM one, but it doesnt show an example of SMR for the lower back.

But the stretching one will prolly be Fav.ed in my browser.

Posted by: CowPimp

P, mike just asked me what I do for my static stretching, and that's what he's doing, heh.

You don't need to stretch out all of those areas if you aren't tight there, but I enjoy stretching all over my body and feel like it has provided nothing but benefits.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

P, mike just asked me what I do for my static stretching, and that's what he's doing, heh.

You don't need to stretch out all of those areas if you aren't tight there, but I enjoy stretching all over my body and feel like it has provided nothing but benefits.

I hear ya. It does feel great to strech all over.

Since it pertains to the discussion, here is an article from the NSCA Performance Training Journal about the negative effects of overstretching or stretching to much....

Possible Implications of Excessive Stretching on Sport Performance

By Joseph M Warpeha, MA, CSCS, NSCA-CPT

Since the birth of modern athletics, it seems like stretching and flexibility training have been as common to athletes' programs as the strength training or conditioning portions. Recently, however, it appears that some are questioning the value of vigorous stretching protocols and even suggesting that intense stretching may predispose certain athletes to musculoskeletal injury and cause others to perform at sub-optimal levels (7). This article does not discuss specific types of stretching, but rather seeks to briefly examine the topic of flexibility and the role excessive stretching may play in physical performance.

While many are undoubtedly aware of the definition of flexibility, a brief review is nevertheless warranted. A simplified explanation of the musculoskeletal system is that bones are connected to other bones by ligaments and where two bones meet is called a joint. Further, the actual movement of bones occurs as a result of transmitted force (via tendons, which connect muscle to bone) produced by contracting skeletal muscles. The range of motion (ROM) of a joint describes how "flexible" a joint is. The extent of a joint's ROM depends, to a large degree, on the connective tissue associated with the particular joint. Technically, flexibility is defined as the range of motion about a body joint (2) and describes the elastic properties and stretching capabilities of tendon, ligament, muscle, and fascia.

Prior to any type of flexibility training, each individual person has some degree of flexibility in each joint of their body. For the sake of this article, we will say that each person's degree of flexibility lies somewhere within a continuum ranging from poor to excellent. While each specific joint has its own unique ROM, it is common to find an "inflexible" person having poor ranges of motion across many major joints and vice versa. No matter what the starting point on the flexibility continuum, there is always the potential to increase joint ROM with flexibility training.

Various degrees of flexibility in specific joints are required for particular sports. For example, an Olympic weightlifter must have a certain degree of flexibility in the knees for the catch positions of the clean and the snatch, and the shoulders must have a certain ROM for the overhead portions of the jerk and snatch.

Most athletic movements have somewhat predictable ranges of motion that are not likely to be exceeded in the course of normal execution. For example, it is safe to say that the ranges of motion of the ankles, knees, and hips during long distance running on a flat surface are not particularly great. The question then becomes, why do distance runners who are not particularly inflexible spend so much time stretching their legs to extreme degrees (in terms of joint ranges of motion)? Let us hypothetically say that long distance running never involves knee flexion greater than ninety degrees. Why then would a runner perform vigorous stretching exercises like a standing quadriceps stretch that involves grabbing the foot/ankle behind the back and pulling towards the buttocks thus forcing the knee into extreme flexion, the likes of which are nowhere near the degree of flexion experienced while running? This is not the same thing as light stretching to "loosen up" which certainly has a place in warming up for activity or sport, nor should it be confused with a person who is "tight" and has poor flexibility and therefore requires a more thorough stretching program.

Decreased flexibility has been associated with increased in-line running and walking economy and increased stiffness may be associated with increased isometric and concentric force generation (6). Powers and Howley (8) also contend that a high degree of flexibility in all joints may not be desirable in all sports from an injury prevention standpoint. The specific example used by Powers and Howley in their discussion of flexibility focuses on the shoulder joint which is described as a structurally weak joint relative to other joints like the hip. The authors note that an increase in shoulder muscle mass might reduce shoulder flexibility but would lower the chance of shoulder injury in contact sports by increasing shoulder stability.

Regarding the power production aspect, if the muscle-tendon unit becomes more easily lengthened or stretched, it will take a longer period of time and will require increased muscle shortening to achieve the same degree of skeletal movement than it would if the muscle-tendon unit was "stiffer" or had less "give." Every muscle fiber has an optimal range at which the greatest potential exists for force production and when that specific length is exceeded (>10 – 15%), force production potential drops off appreciably (4). Therefore, it stands to reason that one would not want to force the muscle to contract in that less-than-optimal range. Additionally, since power is the amount of work per unit time, time is a crucial parameter. Increasing the force transmission time (from muscle to bone) will decrease power for any given amount of work. Obviously, if rate of force development (speed) is increased then power could be maintained, but this would be less efficient. Wallmann et al.(9) demonstrated that vertical jump height was negatively affected by static stretching of the gastrocnemius prior to the jumping event, despite the fact that muscle activity (measured by EMG) was greater during the pre-stretch condition when compared to condition involving no pre-stretching.

As far as mechanical efficiency is concerned, excessive stretching also may increase the laxity or "looseness" of ligaments (the connective tissue that holds bones together and aids in joint stability). If joint stiffness (which is affected by muscle and tendon properties, in addition to ligament) is reduced, more time and energy are required to stabilize the joint. Imagine a pair of twins who are identical in every single way (training history, strength, size, aerobic capacity, etc.). One twin runs a mile on a flat track at nine miles per hour and the other runs a mile on a flat sandy beach at the same nine miles per hour pace. Who expends more energy running the mile? Obviously, the twin that ran on the beach had a much harder time because he or she had to expend more energy every step to stabilize the ankles, knees, and hips due to the very unstable sandy ground. Now let us say both of these twins were running on the track and the only difference between the two was that one was an intense, chronic stretcher and the other did very little structured flexibility training and, as a result, the twin that performed a lot of stretching had a much greater degree of joint laxity in the lower body. If they both ran a mile at the same pace and everything other than joint laxity was equal, chances are the twin with more laxity would be less mechanically efficient because of the increased energy expenditure required to stabilize the looser joints.

Cal Dietz, Head Olympic Strength Coach at the University of Minnesota, tells a story relevant to this discussion about a basketball player he recently worked with (5). The freshman forward came in very well-trained and had incredible flexibility (he was able to do the splits) as a result of the very intense and thorough stretching program he had always used. Coaches commented that this player lacked a "first step" and his explosiveness and ability to change direction was not as good as it should be as evidenced by his Pro Agility test score. Three months of an intense plyometric and strength program had no effect. Coach Dietz instructed this player to stop his intense stretching routine. The basketball coaches were unaware of this change to the player's routine and after three to four months commented on the marked improvement in his first step and explosiveness. His Pro Agility test score also improved. Obviously, this is only an anecdotal report and there could be multiple reasons for this player's dramatic improvement, but it certainly raises questions about the possible effects that excessive stretching has on sport performance.

It is important to note that this article is directed at athletic performance and excessive stretching. Athletics and performance is a very different topic than the general population and health and fitness. It is a widely held belief that flexibility training and stretching should be performed by everybody in order to maintain (or increase) the flexibility of the major joints to the point that flexibility is equivalent to the ROM required in activities of daily living (1). While the evidence for a relationship between poor flexibility and low back health is limited, some contend that major health concerns like low back injury do have an association with poor trunk (mainly low back and hamstrings) flexibility(3) so an effort to increase the flexibility of the related joints should not be ignored.
References

1. American College of Sports Medicine. (2006). ACSM's guidelines for exercise testing and prescription, 7th edition. Baltimore: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins.

2. Baechle TR, Earle RW. (2000). Essentials of strength training and conditioning, 2nd edition. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics.

3. Baumgartner TA, Jackson AS, Mahar MT, Rowe DA. (2003). Measurement for evaluation in physical education and exercise science, 7th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill.

4. Brooks GA, Fahey TD, Baldwin KM. (2005). Exercise physiology: human bioenergetics and its applications, 4th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill.

5. Dietz C. Personal communication. April 12, 2006.

6. Gleim GW, McHugh MP. (1997). Flexibility and its effects on sports injury and performance. Sports Medicine. 24(5):289 – 299.

7. Ingraham SJ. (2003). The role of flexibility in injury prevention and athletic performance. Minnesota Medicine. v. 86.

8. Powers SK, Howley ET. (2004). Exercise physiology: theory and application to fitness and performance, 5th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill.

9. Wallmann HW, Mercer JA, McWhorter JW (2005). Surface electromyographic assessment of the effect of static stretching of the gastrocnemius on vertical jump performance. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. 19(3):684 – 688.
About the Author

Joe Warpeha is an exercise physiologist and strength coach and is currently working on his PhD in exercise physiology at the University of Minnesota-Minneapolis. His current research focuses on bone and tendon adaptations to training and the effects of skeletal loading on their physiological and mechanical properties. Joe teaches several courses at UM including "advanced weight training and conditioning" and "measurement, evaluation, and research in kinesiology". He has a master's degree in exercise physiology and certifications through the NSCA, ACSM, USAW, ASEP, and YMCA. He has over 14 years of resistance and aerobic training experience and has been a competitive powerlifter since 1997. Joe is a two-time national bench press champion and holds multiple state and national records in the bench press while competing in the 148, 165, and 181-pound weight classes.

Posted by: mike456

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

P, mike just asked me what I do for my static stretching, and that's what he's doing, heh.

You don't need to stretch out all of those areas if you aren't tight there, but I enjoy stretching all over my body and feel like it has provided nothing but benefits.

I made a few changes

Posted by: P-funk

also, I would do more then 1 set of 20sec. I typically try to do 3 sets of each stretch for a 20 count hold (2 sets if I am in a rush). Just got back and forth between limbs and it goes pretty quickly.

Posted by: Bakerboy

I hope the younger guys realize the gold mine of information they get from you mods. When I was 15 all I had for information about strength training was a bunch of books from bodybuilders in the late 70's and 80's. In one of those books I still remember staring at a picture of Lou in his bare feet showing how to do a proper squat. He was talking about breathing techniques during 20 rep squats. Now there are video clips for every exercise known to man.

Posted by: CowPimp

Interesting read there P. I have actually recently changed my flexibility program around a bit to focus more on my weak points. I realized that I was spending too much time on flexibility training when my flexibility was already good in most every respect.

For example, my anterior shoulder capsule is dreadfully tight on my right arm (The one I injured a little under a year ago). I hold this stretch longer than any other stretch I do. My lats also tend to be a little tight, so I give them a nice long stretch as well. Foam rolling my lats has helped significantly though.

My lower body flexibility is pretty good all around, though my TFL is a little tight, so I hold that stretch longer than any other. My hamstrings and lower back are plenty flexible, I only hold those stretches for 15 seconds or so, and I don't tend to push it too far. That is, I just do maintenance level holds for most of my stretches, save for the ones that I feel need improvement.

Posted by: P-funk

what stretch are you doing for your anterior capsule?

I usually stretch my posterior capsule out by lying on one side, the arm on the ground is abducted to 90 degrees, elbow flexed at 90 degress and then my arm in the air applies pressure to the fist of the arm on the ground and presses it into interal rotation to stretch the external rotators (posterior capsule).

Posted by: CowPimp

You know the test of shoulder flexiblity where you try to clasp your hands together behind your back? It's like that, but I pass a strap to the arm up top and pull up with my other arm.

Posted by: P-funk

gotcha.

Posted by: AKIRA

Holy shit CowPimp, I didnt know you were that flexible!

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Holy shit CowPimp, I didnt know you were that flexible!

I'm not that flexible, I'm just more flexible than your average person in a variety of joints, but that isn't saying much. Most people are horrendously tight all over the place.

Posted by: AKIRA

No no, what I mean is the guy in the stretching page looks just like you.

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

No no, what I mean is the guy in the stretching page looks just like you.

Hahaha!

Posted by: shiznit2169

Just imagine how amazing it would be if we had the flexibility of gymnasts. Damn, they sure are strong!

Posted by: AKIRA

Hey P, I gotta a question for you on a stretching pic's caption.

For the lower body, when you lay on your back and brin gboth knees to you chest, it says to hold them in between the legs and not on top. Why not on top?

Posted by: P-funk

you mean hold them under the legs? like hands on the hamstrings?

Posted by: P-funk

Found some pictures of anterior, inferior and posterior capsule stretches for the shoulder. Will throw them up here for anyone that needs to add them to their program. *hint hint*

shoulder health

Posted by: P-funk

and another one.

picture 4 is the posterior capsule stretch i was reffering to earlier.

shoulder health part 2

Posted by: AKIRA

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

you mean hold them under the legs? like hands on the hamstrings?

Yeah it says to do that, but not on the front. I guess that would mean hands on the knees or shins.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Yeah it says to do that, but not on the front. I guess that would mean hands on the knees or shins.

holding in front, ontop of the shings, will probably make you pull harder and place you into a g reater anterior pelvic tilt. I really don't know the reason for sure though.

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

and another one.

picture 4 is the posterior capsule stretch i was reffering to earlier.

shoulder health part 2

Good stuff. I really like that stretch. I'm pretty tight there on my right side too. I'm definitely going to incorporate that stetch into my program now. Stretch 5 is the one I said I did for the anterior capsule, except I use a nylon strap. They say "posterior/superior," which makes more sense because you're going into internal rotation and adduction.

Posted by: lilbittle

I love static & dynamic stretching. I will have to try the faom rolling next.. Thanks P-Funk

Posted by: Seanp156

lawl, that guy reminds me of Cowpimp.

Posted by: Alpha

This is good stuff. Thanks a bunch P-funk!

Posted by: Richie1888

is the dynamic stretching advisable to people with poor ROM ?

Posted by: BringinToddBack

very helpful.

Posted by: Blooming Lotus

nice thread P-Funk. Good on you

Posted by: Double D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie1888

is the dynamic stretching advisable to people with poor ROM ?

Normally poor flexibility needs to be corrected with static stretching.

Posted by: Blooming Lotus

ooh.. how contraversial.

Some ppl sweear by dynamic streching and others really totally oppose.

Ideally I'd think if you haave poor flexibility and are bringing in a stretching program that isokentic would probably both the safest and most effective way to go.. where you're strechting from diffrent angles and lengths on the same group or limb ..particularly if the muscle or limb is being worrked from different angles..

Hell yEs a good stretch sesh can feel awesome!.. good comment whoever said that

.

Blooming lotus.

Posted by: diamondxar

I would stretch after two and a half hours of cardio workouts and weight training. Is that a good idea?

Posted by: njc

Cow Pimp, P-funk, whoever else,

would you guys mind posting your entire stretching regime? When you do the stretches, how you place them around your different training sessions and for each bodypart? And what you do on your off days. I would love to view them.

Posted by: lifterjake

good info here

Posted by: charliemurphy9

nice thread

Posted by: NFOMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I wouldn't statically stretch pre-workout. A dynamic warm up of active stretching or movement training is crucial IMO though.

Yo, Man.

I love sretching, although they kill the shit our of my muscles! I do hanging lifts with stretching, and I do with lat pullups & dips. I don't do Swiss balls or steps.

Yep, I do the deadlifts, the squats, that keep me disclipined to get proper form (I ache day, each fucking day .. did each FUCKING DAY? ).

But I'm stretching ALWAYS! Damn! Why the f*ck am I stretching my abs, pecs, lats ... at night, waking me up at sleep? Always? ( My wife seems to accept the agressive grabs... but that is negotiable. Go figure.! (She must be a gem.)

Tommie

Posted by: UFo

check out this yt channel stretchexpert a lot of good stuff

he is much more concentrated on basketball, but there is a lot of stuff that will help increasing flexibility

Posted by: UFo

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFo

check out this yt channel stretchexpert a lot of good stuff

he is much more concentrated on basketball, but there is a lot of stuff that will help increasing flexibility

Posted by: Log

This is a very good explanation why we are not flexible and what to do to become flexible. Conventional stretches excluded.

YouTube - Hamstrings Flexibility

Posted by: livinlarge

i don't know but the knew thing is not to strech before workouts now because they say you are loosing the mucles and tendens around joints and you can loose control and hurt yourself you should stech after a workout or after you are done with your sets so that is what i have learned now i still strech before i workout but some of my cleints like to after wards and they have had good results so take as you will that is the now thing

Posted by: no pin no gin

Quote:

P-funk

You're very beautiful wonderful

Posted by: sumit01

stretching is the fist step before pumping up your body

Posted by: heliboy

that's some very helpful tips. Stretching is very important to prevent soreness.

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