Originally Posted by dontsurfonmytur

Would a preworkout supp like vault or no-xplode ruin the effects of my Bulk Cee before workout?
and does the Bulk CEE mix well with anything? like a whey shake?

Originally Posted by Trouble

Is there a chance that your CEE smells odd, like dead fish??

Reason I ask is, I've had one bad batch. Now the current Kg batch I have, is about 3 months old. I took it out just now and gave it a whiff, just to make sure. Smells faintly like chemical, which is what you should smell.

One time, I had an off yellowish batch, and it smelt bad, ammonical or mildly like fish will smell when its not fresh. I sent that batch back, because I know my chemistry and suspected it had degraded, probably in hot storage.

Should be the case, that you can take CEE in water, and not notice much taste. You should NOT be loading up on more than few grams a time. I usually throw in a little taurine and magnesium citrate - and the taste is mildly lemon like. Nothing that would make you gag.

I do not recommend you take your creatine with whey protein. Reason is that the protein may block absorption in the gut..and, the combination of some wheys that are insulinogenic (insulin release promoting) and creatine, which can be mildly irritating to gut can lead to...ahh, gut unpleasantness, at a time when you're not interested in spending valuble time in the bathroom attending to pressing matters. Such actions can leave you feeling wrung out and weak. Definitely counterproductive.

Originally Posted by Trouble

Last time I looked, this wasn't Avant Labs forum, but Ok, lets do the numbers.

Creatine ethyl ester hydrochloride is a mildly hydrophobic derivative of creatine monohydrate hydrochloride, purported to be taken up across intestinal mucosa more efficiently than CM. As the microbial community biofilm biopolymers of intestinal muscosal villi present a mildly hydrophobic environment, the claim of enhanced absorptivity by the ethyl ester may be true. Moreover, a recent preliminary study conducted in 2004 suggests that certain dehydration processes used in commercial production of monocrystalline creatine may result in dimerization and reduced instestinal uptake and membrane transport.

Whey is a variable fraction byproduct of dairy (cheese) production; its fractional constituency is known to vary considerably with the raw material and methods of processing, namely hydrolysis and peptide separation. Some milk protein fractions contain lactose sugars. Milk proteins are also mildly hydrophobic and therefore, some protein-creatine physical absorption may occur if they are ingested together.

The creatine ethyl ester HCl that I have purchased and used has always recommended it be taken with water.

Oh yeah, BTW, ask Twin Peaks if I have the professional credentials to know my shit, microbial ecology and biochemistry-wise.

Originally Posted by 40-yard dash_2

No.

Yes, you can mix CEE with whey protein, or you can also mix with crystal light to help mask the taste.

Originally Posted by Trouble

CEE tastes bad??

Rhodiola - that tastes bad. HMB - that IS bitter.

By comparison, CEE is quite pleasant, definitely not something that requires masking.

XCEED: Creatine ethyl ester HCl, Diarginine malate, L-taurine, glucuronolactone.

Taurine - check, highly imporant to liver and brain chemistry
CEE - check (may or may not require insulin for uptake), volumizer and energy
Arginine malate......insulin promotor, TCA cycle intermediate/energy
Glucuronolactone (undergoes equilibirum with glucuronic acid) - important insulin sensitizer, promotes cAMP production, and even more importantly, promotes ribose synthesis, one of the rate limiting steps in insulin sensitivity.

A well-thought out product. Would NOT take with whey. Would recommend it in place of plain jane CEE, if you can afford it.

If you have insulin sensitivity issues, I would say this is a compelling product.

Originally Posted by 40-yard dash_2

You guys should try Xceed. You'll be amazed at the taste, because it is very similar to lemonade. DS did an excellent job at masking the 3g of CEE + 3g of Di-Arginine Malate + 1g Taurine + 1g Glucuronolactone per serving.