P/RR/S II: Advanced Techniques [Forum Archive]

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P/RR/S II: Advanced Techniques

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Posted by: gopro

For those of you that utilize my program, but never got to read the Iron Man magazine articles about P/RR/S II, I have decided to post them here in case you would like to. Enjoy...

POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK 2
Variations and Advanced Techniques
Part I

In the May 2005 addition of Ironman I wrote an article entitled ÒPOWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK...Time to Grow Without Plateau, outlining a training protocol that I developed about five years ago to help more advanced lifters break out of a rut, and start adding on new muscle, similarly to the way they did when they first started training. Since that article came out, my email has been inundated with positive feedback by those that have been using the program with great success. Dozens and dozens of lifters have written me, expressing that POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK is one of the most enjoyable and effective training programs they have ever utilized, bringing their enthusiasm for the iron to an all time high! Nothing could make me happier, as being successful at helping others reach their fitness and physique goals has become just as important to me as reaching my own.

Over the past 4-5 years I have been using P/RR/S myself, on a continuous basis, making steady gains in both muscle mass and quality, which is pretty impressive after lifting for 15+ years. During this time I have experimented with different variations of the basic program, creating a more intense version for advanced lifters, and a beginnerÕs version as well. Being a personal trainer for bodybuilders and athletes of all levels for many years has also allowed me to tweak the original P/RR/S program to meet the unique needs of each individual, depending on what it is they desire to accomplish at a specific time of year. P/RR/S can be altered to be more geared toward hypertrophy, strength, or cutting cycles.

Before I begin to delve further into the topic of P/RR/S advanced techniques and variations, let me quickly review some of what I presented in the initial article in order to refresh everyoneÕs memory...or just in case you missed the article entirely.

P/RR/S Revisited

Most people tend to fall into one specific way of training early on, and then rarely break very far from it as the years go by. As long as trainees are progressive with the weights they use, this approach will work, at least for the first few years of training. However, as more time goes by, this one dimensional system will bring about progressively diminishing returns as far as hypertrophy is concerned, and along with it, increasing frustration. This situation may lead some towards dangerous anabolic steroids, others to add far too much volume to their workouts (thinking they are not doing enough), and a few to quit training altogether. Obviously, none of these are very positive solutions to the problem at hand.

What many people fail to realize is how incredibly adaptable the human body can be, and how low on the priority list gaining large amounts of muscle is to our bodies. Like I said, for the first couple of years, as long as you workout consistently, and progressively heavier, you will be able to get bigger. However, after a while, simply lifting heavier weights is not a novel enough stimulus to trigger the body into adding more muscle . Not only that, but this is a very ÒnarrowÓ approach to training that leaves various pathways to growth completely untouched, and your full potential entirely untapped! As I mentioned in the first article, most people focus only on training the Type II muscle fibers because they have the greatest potential for hypertrophy. However, to reach the outer boundaries of our genetic limit, we need to train every single fiber along the continuum, from the slowest of the slow, to the fastest of the fast. In addition, we must make a ferocious effort to positively affect every metabolic and hormonal system that can contribute to advancing our muscle size and density. And dare I mention the word hyperplasia? Correct, never proven in humans, but the possibility certainly exists...

Enter POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK...a cyclical approach to training that has you using a unique protocol every week, that will collectively tap into all of your bodyÕs mechanisms for growth.

Basic P/RR/S Formula

Week # 1 is the POWER week, and it is meant to smash your Type II A and Type II B fast twitch muscle fibers, as well as get large amounts of natural testosterone to course through your veins. Here is the outline for a basic POWER week, along with a sample workout for hamstrings:

Rep Goal: 4-6
Rest Between Sets: 4-5 minutes
Lifting Tempo: 4/0/X
Exercises: Mostly compound

1-Lying Leg Curl:3 x 4-6
2-Stiff Leg Deadlift: 3 x 4-6
3-Single Leg Leg Curl: 2-3 x 4-6

Week # 2 is the REP RANGE week, the goal of which is tear through all the intermediary muscle fibers that lie along the continuum from Type I to Type II fibers as well as to stimulate growth producing metabolic adaptions within muscle cells. Here is the outline for a basic REP RANGE week, along with a sample workout for triceps:

Rep Goal: 7-9, 10-12, 13-15
Rest Between Sets: 2-3 minutes
Lifting Tempo: 2/1/2/1***
Exercises: Compound, Isolation, Machine or Cable

***1 second hold at peak contraction for certain exercises (ex. Leg Extensions).

1-Smith CG Bench Press: 3 x 7-9
2-Lying Triceps Extension: 3 x 10-12
3-Dumbbell Kickback: 2 x 13-15

Week # 3 is SHOCK week, where you will become very intimate with searing muscle pain! The burn and lactic acid that this week produces will flood your system with growth hormone, while the monster pumps will have your body laying down some new capillaries to make room for the rushing blood! Here is the outline for a basic SHOCK week, along with a sample workout for delts:

Rep Goal: 8-10 (dropset is 8-10, drop, 6-8)
Rest Between Sets: cardiovascular and mental recovery
Lifting Tempo: 1/0/1
Exercises: Compound, Isolation, Machine or Cable

1-Superset: Seated Side Lateral/Behind the Neck Press: 2 x 8-10 each
2-Superset: WG Cable Upright Row/Bent Lateral: 2 x 8-10 each
3-Dropset: Barbell Front Raise: 1 x 8-10, drop, 6-8

Once you complete the 3-week P/RR/S cycle, return to the beginning and repeat, with the goal in mind of training more intensely on the next cycle. I suggest you use the same exercises for three straight cycles, and try to lift heavier weight and/or increase your reps at each workout. After three full cycles either take a complete week off from the gym, or at least do a very light week to allow for repair and recovery. Upon returning to P/RR/S, feel free to switch some or all of the exercises, and prepare to push even harder through the next three cycles.

Now that I have refreshed everyoneÕs memory about the premise and principles behind the POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK training strategy, I am now going to discuss some variations of the program, as well as some advanced techniques that can be employed by very seasoned lifters and/or those that are P/RR/S veterans (note: P/RR/S was originally introduced on the Internet several years ago and now has a large following that have been on the original program for some time). So, take a quick sip of that protein drink, and read on...

Advanced Techniques

POWER WEEK: One technique that I like to employ during POWER week to intensify the basic protocol is something that I call Ò1, 3, 5 Training.Ó Powerlifters often use something similar in their own training and it is extremely effective in the scheme of P/RR/S. To use this technique you pick three basic exercises for your workout. For the first exercise you will be performing single-rep sets. For the second exercise you utilize three-rep sets. For the final exercise each set will be for five-reps. The goal is to pick weights that cause you to reach failure at 1, 3, or 5 reps for the respective exercise. This type of training should NOT be done alone, as it is dangerous without a spotter. If you choose a weight that is too heavy or too light, simply adjust for the next set. Follow the rest, tempo, and exercise guidelines mentioned above for standard POWER weeks. Here is a sample workout for back:

1-Deadlifts: 6 x 1
2-Weighted Pullups: 4 x 3
3-Bent Rows: 2 x 5

Make 100% sure that you are thoroughly warmed up before getting into your work sets or an injury could occur. This type of training is extremely taxing on the CNS, so also make sure you take measures to maximize your recovery in between each workout. This means meticulous attention to diet, supplementation, and sleep!

REP RANGE WEEK: The standard protocol for REP RANGE week is to pick three exercises per body part, and to do the first for 7-9 reps, the second for 10-12 reps, and the third for 13-15 reps. One way I like to Òbreak from traditionÓ this week is to again pick three exercises per body part, but to hit each of the three rep ranges during each exercise. As an example, here is what a quad workout might look like:

1-Squats...1 x 13-15, 1 x 10-12, 1 x 7-9
2-Leg Press...1 x 13-15, 1 x 10-12, 1 x 7-9
3-Leg Extension...1 x 13-15, 1 x 10-12, 1 x 7-9

*Feel free to reverse the order and start with the lower rep range and work to the higher one as a variation.

Another way I like to Òspice upÓ REP RANGE week for more advanced lifters is to open up the boundaries on the reps a bit. Although it is not something I recommend you do often, occasionally pushing the reps into the 20-50 range can really encourage a growth spurt by forcing your body to deal with a stress it certainly is not used to, as well as inducing positive metabolic changes and the laying down of more capillary beds within muscle. Here is how I might use this technique to cause the delts to think about packing up, and finding a more sane person to live with:

1-Military Press...2 x 7-9
2-WG Cable Upright Row...2 x 10-12
3-Bent Lateral...1 x 13-15, 1 x 16-20
4-Side Lateral...1 x 21-25*, 1 x 26-50*

*Switch to a 1/0/1 tempo for these sets. Move the weight rhythmically, but not sloppily. On all other sets use the tempo used for standard REP RANGE week.

Training in this manner can be extremely physically and mentally challenging as you will have to deal with a lactic acid burn that will make you want to cry. Also, the length of the very high rep sets will have some people lose focus and concentration, especially if a hot chick in the tiny spandex short walks by. But donÕt let the girl or the burn get in your way of completing every last rep! Perhaps your perseverance will impress her, especially if youÕre not bawling like a baby by rep 35!

To Be Continued...

Next month I will describe several intensity techniques that I like to add into SHOCK week that will truly separate the men from the boys. I will also present how beginners can get started using P/RR/S, as well as how to tweak the overall program for more specific goals. Until then, keep reading Ironman, and lift some heavy iron men!

Posted by: gopro

Part II

POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK 2
Variations and Advanced Techniques
Part II

Ladies and gentleman reading this article, please forgive me if any of the following text seems incoherent, has many misspelled words, or would only make sense in the Twilight Zone, the Bizarro World, or after eating some of those “funny brownies” you and your buddies used to make in college! I am wrecked…hammered…spent…crushed…destroyed…nauseous… and massively oxygen deprived, and can barely lift my fingers to the keyboard to type, let alone able to put together an intelligent and well-thought-out article on training! So then why in the heck am I trying to write an article under such conditions? Because I just got home from the gym after performing and outrageous SHOCK workout for legs, and I figured what better time to write about SHOCK training then right after a SHOCK workout! Yes, I am very much in the mood to “get down on paper” the exact experience I just lived, but unfortunately, I kind of feel like I only have two semi-functioning brain cells left, and THEY are arguing over whether I should have white rice or a potato with my post workout shake! “C’mon guys, stop bickering…I need you two!”

Ok, maybe its best if I have some food, take a shower, and smack these cobwebs out of my head before I go on? Nahhh, scrap that idea! My legs are too tired and wobbly to get me from here to the kitchen anyway, so I might as well sit here and write! Here it goes…

In part I of “POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK… Variations and Advanced Techniques,” I gave you a quick review about the basic principals behind the original P/RR/S protocol, and then upped the ante by revealing ways to make both POWER and REP RANGE week even more intense and growth promoting. In part II I am going to show you how to rev the intensity of SHOCK week into the stratosphere!

Now, as I mentioned before, earlier today I went to the gym to put the SHOCK treatment to my legs. Knowing that I was going to be writing this article today, I decided to use ALL of the SHOCK techniques I would be discussing…you know, just for the “fun” of it! Yeah right! I figured this would help me be more “colorful” in my description of each technique. And speaking of color, I am just lucky that I didn’t throw up my fruit punch flavored creatine halfway through this torture session! So, if you just ate a big meal, you might want to take some time to digest before reading this, because I don’t want you ruin your new copy of Iron Man! So grab a bucket and read on, if you dare…

Its about 1 pm and I take my normal pre-workout mixture of 5 grams BCAA’s, 5 grams glutamine, and 5 grams creatine mixed in water. I wait about 30 minutes and drink a whey shake along with a tablespoon of natural peanut butter. I then throw on some gym clothes, grab my belt, my wraps and MP3 player and head to the gym. It was along the way that I came up with the “brilliant” idea of using all of the SHOCK techniques I wanted to write about…something I am sure to be sorry about in the morning!

Upon arrival I say a few hellos, but avoid getting into any drawn out conversations. It is SHOCK (or should I say Ultra-SHOCK) leg day after all and I need to focus! After a quick trip to the locker room, I head right to my first exercise…Hack Squats.

ADVANCED SHOCK TACTIC # 1
1 and ½ Reps:

For the first set I warm up with 1 plate on each side and do 8 rock bottom reps. The second set is again a warm up, but this time it is 2 plates per side for 6 full range reps. Now, its “go time” as I throw on a third 45 lb plate per side, and then take a minute to contemplate the pain I am about to face. You see, I am not about to do a conventional set because this is not a conventional workout! It is SHOCK week baby and it’s all about pushing past the pain barrier and heading into territory that only a small percentage of lifters are willing to enter. On each rep I am going to slowly sink to rock bottom, then push up only halfway. I will then sink back to the bottom, and then fire myself to the top! That sequence will only be counted as one rep, with the eventual goal of getting 8-10 reps in this vile manner for two all-out sets. Doesn’t sound so bad? Try it with a truly challenging weight, and I guarantee you will rethink your position.

With Hack Squats out of the way, it is time for me to make way over to one of the five Leg Press machines my gym has. Being that my legs feel like rubber, my first thought is to simply go to the one closest to me, but unfortunately, that was not the particular machine I wanted. No…today I wanted to go vertical! Done with a truly full range of motion (where you literally bring your knees into your armpits) the vertical Leg Press is certainly the most grueling.

ADVANCED SHOCK TACTIC # 2
Stage Reps:

To get into the groove of the movement I started with 2 plates per side and did 8 clean reps. After a quick sip of water I threw on another plate and did 6 more deep reps. At this point I started to get butterflies in my stomach as I was keenly aware of the nightmare I was about to voluntarily sink myself into. However, my focus was solid…so much so that the incredibly hot babe doing Stiff Leg Deadlifts behind me could not even throw me off (who am I kidding…I watched her do an entire set before I started mine). With the machine loaded with 4 plates on each side and my feet set firmly on the platform I said a quick prayer (“Dear GOD, why am I doing this…?) and unlocked the safeties. I felt a few people around me looking on in confusion, probably wondering why I was using so little weight (as they would normally see me using almost twice that amount). “Wait and see,” I thought to myself. I slowly began to bring the weight down, but stopped it dead only ¼ of the way. One, two, three, four, five I counted in my head before lowering the weight to the ½ way point. Again, I counted one, two, three, four, five, before finally lowering the platform to the bottom. After a one second pause I exploded the weight back to the starting position and said, “One rep down, 9 to go!” A horrifying thought for sure, but the masochist in me loved every minute of it! Two sets of this craziness, and I was toast.

Sweating as if I were wearing a fur coat on the sun, I poured some cold water on my head and crawled over to my final quad exercise of the day…Leg Extensions. The one extension machine that I really like was being used by a couple of young bodybuilders, and when I asked them how many sets they had left, I was secretly hoping they would say 20 a piece so I could lay down and take a nap! No such luck, however, as they were on their final set. Oh joy (not)!

ADVANCED SHOCK TACTIC # 3
X-Reps:

At this point my quads were twitching and shaking uncontrollably, so I decided to do only one all-out set of extensions. Any more than that, and I was afraid my legs would go on strike and force me to skip training hams! Not an option fellas! After one 6-rep warm up with 100 lbs, I stuck the pin at 180 and took a few deep breaths. I was all too aware I was about to meet my nasty little friend lactic acid head on, and I was not looking forward to it (gotta love him though as he always brings a nice supply of natural GH along with him!). Rep one was really tough as it felt like my quads wanted to simply cramp up, but I fought it off and pushed out 8 more reps in a piston-like fashion. When full reps were finally out of the question, I began doing short, pulsing-type reps in the first 1/3 of the movement (these are the X-reps). I am not sure how many I got, as I began hallucinating that I was lying on a beach next to the hot Stiff Leg Deadlift girl, rubbing oil on her glutes (what better way to distract myself from the searing pain!). As soon as I got up, it felt like a damn broke inside my quads releasing gallons of blood, literally filling my thighs to the point that it felt like my skin would rip from the inside out! X-reps are truly amazing for growth, as they allow you to push past nervous system failure, forcing the type II fibers to continue firing in the exact portion of an exercise where maximum force production and tension takes place (the semi-stretched position). Try them…but bring a fire extinguisher!

As I rolled out of the Leg Extension machine and collapsed to the floor I felt a rush of relief knowing that I would not have to face another quad workout for another week. However, I did not let that comforting thought distract me from the fact that I still needed to SHOCK my hamstrings before I could go home. So, after stretching my quads hard for a couple of minutes, I picked myself up (or should I say pulled myself up, as my thighs seemed to be temporarily boycotting any movement whatsoever), and strolled over to the Lying Leg Curl machine with all the grace of a three-legged dog.

ADVANCED SHOCK TACTIC # 4
Forced Negatives:

While warming up with a couple of light sets, I tried to motivate myself by thinking about the incredible hamstrings of Tom Platz, Tom Prince, and Flex Wheeler. The fullness and roundness that these men possessed in their hamstrings, especially from the side, was simply awe-inspiring! Picturing myself with that kind of development had me ready and psyched to tear it up! Lucky for me, a friend of mine, who has been utilizing my POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK training program for quite some time, was at the gym. You see, in order to perform these particular SHOCK sets properly, I was going to need the help of an experienced trainee.

“Yo bro, can you help me with these?”
“Sure, what do you need?”
“Some forced negatives.”
“Ohhh, SHOCK week, huh? Yeah, I’ll help!”
“Thanks…but please wipe that smile off of your face!”
“Hehehe…this is going to be fun!”
“I’m so glad the thought of MY pain makes you smile…you sadist!”

With that, I jumped on the bench and was “ready to rumble!” My goal for the first set was 10 full reps to failure, at which point the real “fun” would begin. The first 7 reps went up pretty easily, but the next three were quite a struggle. Once I finally got that final rep to the top my buddy grabbed a hold of my ankles and began to pull downward toward the floor. I fought him with all of my might until the very bottom (I so badly wanted to make him work almost as hard as me!). But that was just the beginning! He then helped me get back to the top, and again pulled down while I resisted as hard as I could. On the first forced negative it took him about 5 seconds to pull me down, but by the fifth I could not resist at all. Set over! Too bad I had to repeat this excruciating process one more time. One word of warning about this technique…it will make you sorer than you could possibly imagine! Advil anyone?

Now it was time for my final exercise of the day, the Standing Single Leg Curl. This is one of my favorite exercises for hamstrings as it allows for a very powerful contraction, and excellent isolation. It is also an exercise that I like to work heavy. Hence the inclusion of the next form of self-torture…

ADVANCED SHOCK TACTIC # 5
Rest-Pause:

I had two choices here. One machine has you standing pretty much upright, and the other has you leaning into it. Being that the only way I was even able to stand up at this point was to lean on something, my decision was clear as the following song lyrics ran through my head...”Lean on me, when you're not strong. And I'll be your friend. I'll help you carry on…” But I digress. My plan of attack was only to do one “balls to the wall” set here, but when using this SHOCK tactic, it will feel like 10! I loaded on the entire weight stack and was shooting for just two clean reps, done with an explosive concentric contraction and a controlled negative. Before the first rep I made sure my whole body was tight, and focused all of my energy into my hamstring, as I did not want my lower back to become involved at all. “One…two…three…UP,” I screamed in my head. BOOM, the first rep came up easy! Now, go slow on the way down to a count of three…two…one. Gotta get one more! “UP!” Got it, but no way could I do another. Time to peek up at the clock and wait for 15 seconds to go by. Ok, gonna try for another rep…same weight. “UP!” BAMN, got another one! Rest again, this time for 20 seconds. This process went on until I completed a total of 8 reps. I got 2 reps initially, and then did 6 Rest-Pause reps, starting with a fifteen-second rest, and then increasing it by five seconds between each rep thereafter. This was an absolute killer! But what a way to finish my SHOCK workout!

This was most definitely one of the most intense training sessions I think I have ever performed. My clothes were drenched, my thighs were fried, and my brain was numb. I literally just layed on the floor for about ten minutes, comepletely motionless, before I could even muster the strength to get to the locker room. I was hoping that hot Stiff Leg Deadlift girl would have some sympathy and offer a massage, but I think instead, I fightened her away! But that’s ok, because I was in total bliss knowing that I was DONE!

Now I should point out that normally I would not include all of these advanced SHOCK tactics into one single workout, as it is just too taxing and could lead to injury or overtraining. Instead I would combine maybe one or two advanced techniques with the basic SHOCK week protocol that I outlined in my last two P/RR/S articles. Remember, unless you have been using the basic P/RR/S format for at least 6 months (eight 3-week cycles), you shouldn’t be using any of the advanced tactics just yet, as your muscles and CNS will be unable to properly deal with the stress! And if your body cannot recover from your training sessions, not only will you not make any progress…you could actually go backwards!

Well, I hope you enjoyed that little trip with me to the gym! If you were able to live vicariously through me, then just about now I bet you want to lay down and take a nap! I know I do.

In a future article, I will delve further into P/RR/S variations and describe how it can be used optimally for strength, mass, and cutting cycles.

Lights out for now!

Posted by: topolo

Thanks GP

Posted by: CowPimp

That sounds like a horribly wonderful workout there gopro. Ouch.

Good lookin' article too. An excellent way to keep things interesting with an already fun and effective workout protocol.

Posted by: Nate K

NICE.....Thanks for posting this!
THose 1 and 1/2 reps sound Killer.

Posted by: shiznit2169

great read

Posted by: Rocco32

Thanks so much for posting that Gopro!! This should be made a sticky

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by topolo

Thanks GP

You are welcome my friend.

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

That sounds like a horribly wonderful workout there gopro. Ouch.

Good lookin' article too. An excellent way to keep things interesting with an already fun and effective workout protocol.

Yeah, to say it was painful would be more than a mild understatement!

Thank you.

Posted by: gopro

Nate, shiz, Rocco...thank you very much.

Posted by: pengers84

I've had great results from p/rr/s, probably the best strength gains in my 6 years of training. Definately give it another go soon, cheers!

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by pengers84

I've had great results from p/rr/s, probably the best strength gains in my 6 years of training. Definately give it another go soon, cheers!

Thanks for that! I am so glad you have done well with my program!

Posted by: DiGiTaL

haha P/RR/S just keeps getting better and better.. i love it.

Posted by: bludevil

Great read, will be putting advanced techniques to use in my p/rr/s routine.

Posted by: Rocco32

Quote:

Originally Posted by bludevil

Great read, will be putting advanced techniques to use in my p/rr/s routine.

Holy crap it's Bludevil!!!!! What's up buddy, it's been forever...

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiGiTaL

haha P/RR/S just keeps getting better and better.. i love it.

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by bludevil

Great read, will be putting advanced techniques to use in my p/rr/s routine.

Good to hear from you my friend! Glad to hear you are still P/RR/Shocking!

Posted by: assassin

i'm 19 yrs (172 cm height 79 kgs weight) i've been training for 8 months now and i stopped progressing what do u think works best for me ????? how many sets per body part ,best split ,best tempo???

Posted by: bludevil

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

Good to hear from you my friend! Glad to hear you are still P/RR/Shocking!

Just started back a few weeks ago. I ran P/RR/S for about a year then wanted to try different things like HIT, WestSide, GVT, OVT etc.. but found out that nothing worked for me or helped motivate me like P/RR/S. Just on a side note - workouts have been kicking my butt, I had to lay off weights for 3 months due to broken hand and stupidity. I broke my hand and had a hard cast put on. I work on computers and was having trouble typing with just 1 hand so I convinced my dr. to take cast off early. He warned me if I did in physical activity it may break again because the Calcium around the break had not hardened yet. We'll the very next night I played basketball and broke it again. Needless to say the second time I listened.

Posted by: mrmark

With regards to the 'Lifting Tempo: 4/0/X', does this mean specifically on back day, eg when rowing, is it i pull for 4 seconds then let it go back in ~0 seconds OR is it i pull hard then let it back at a duration of ~4 seconds.

Thanks again, and awesome program.

Posted by: assassin

this zero refers to the time spent on the maximum contraction point i guess

Posted by: Phred

For rowing it would be as if you started in the pulled position - let the wt down for 4 seconds, no pause at the bottom and then pull with explosive contraction. With bench lower the wt for 4 seconds, no pause at bottom, and explode up to complete the rep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmark

With regards to the 'Lifting Tempo: 4/0/X', does this mean specifically on back day, eg when rowing, is it i pull for 4 seconds then let it go back in ~0 seconds OR is it i pull hard then let it back at a duration of ~4 seconds.

Thanks again, and awesome program.

Posted by: assassin

ummmm i guess 3 seconds are enough or wt do u think?? i mean in the negative movement??? when using the explosive contraction ??

Posted by: mrmark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phred

For rowing it would be as if you started in the pulled position - let the wt down for 4 seconds, no pause at the bottom and then pull with explosive contraction. With bench lower the wt for 4 seconds, no pause at bottom, and explode up to complete the rep.

Thanks Phred - that was exactly what i needed to know.

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by bludevil

Oh jeez...be careful with that hand!

Thanks for the comments about P/RR/S! To hear that my program motivates you more than all of those other fine programs is quite a compliment!

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phred

Phred is correct. When tempos are listed, the first number refers to the eccentric (negative contraction), the second number refers to stretch position, and the third refers to the concentric (positive) contraction.

When an X is listed that means "explosive contraction."

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin

i'm 19 yrs (172 cm height 79 kgs weight) i've been training for 8 months now and i stopped progressing what do u think works best for me ????? how many sets per body part ,best split ,best tempo???

You can try just using the POWER and REP RANGE portions of my program. I would leave SHOCK alone until after a year of training.

I recommend about 8-10 sets for larger bodyparts and 5-7 for smaller bodyparts.

I would use a 4-day split, hitting each muscle once per week.

Posted by: assassin

umm i started doing about 10-13 per big body parts (bench and back) and 9 per biceps & triceps and 3-5 per small areas (traps rear deltoid forearms) is that fine or shall i decrease it again??

thnx 4 the support

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin

umm i started doing about 10-13 per big body parts (bench and back) and 9 per biceps & triceps and 3-5 per small areas (traps rear deltoid forearms) is that fine or shall i decrease it again??

thnx 4 the support

I would drop back to 10 sets for larger bodyparts...7-8 for arms and shoulders...and you can stay with 3-5 for traps/forearms/calves/abs.

Posted by: Bakerboy

Interesting read, Gorpo. It's great to know there are trainers/bodybuilders/athletes out there who think outside the box. You don't seem afraid to look towards the future of strength training. Reading some of your other posts, you seem very knowledgeable and sharp when it comes to your own training principles. You don't come across as a preacher either, which is refreshing, (none of the moderators on this site do) and seem to be open minded to a variety of training philosophies. I appreciate you passing on your article to all of us... good stuff! Keep up the good work.

Posted by: assassin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Interesting read, Gorpo. It's great to know there are trainers/bodybuilders/athletes out there who think outside the box. You don't seem afraid to look towards the future of strength training. Reading some of your other posts, you seem very knowledgeable and sharp when it comes to your own training principles. You don't come across as a preacher either, which is refreshing, (none of the moderators on this site do) and seem to be open minded to a variety of training philosophies. I appreciate you passing on your article to all of us... good stuff! Keep up the good work.

agreeeeeee

gopro has good knowledge and he's so helpfull too

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Thank you very much. I truly appreciate your kind words. I will do my best to continue to bring the members here the best information possible.

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin

agreeeeeee

gopro has good knowledge and he's so helpfull too

Glad I could help you assassin.

Posted by: assassin

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

Glad I could help you assassin.

thnx a lot gopro i'm glad to meet u too

Posted by: IRON MAN

no way!!!

Did I just read where you are using up to 50 reps per each set on lateral raises. My delts burn just thinking about it..

Posted by: liljojo4711

just wondering when you were gonna go over the beginner guide to p/rr/s?

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRON MAN

no way!!!

Did I just read where you are using up to 50 reps per each set on lateral raises. My delts burn just thinking about it..

Not a "normal" practice, but done on occasion for the shock value!

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by liljojo4711

just wondering when you were gonna go over the beginner guide to p/rr/s?

For the beginner I recommend using just P and RR weeks, while foregoing SHOCK for about 6 months. I also do not recommend training to failure on each set, but staying about a rep short on most sets.

Posted by: liljojo4711

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

For the beginner I recommend using just P and RR weeks, while foregoing SHOCK for about 6 months. I also do not recommend training to failure on each set, but staying about a rep short on most sets.

ok thanks man

Posted by: sheadogg20

Ive been running p/rr/s for 3 months soon to start my 4th and im still amazed at all the progress I have made. Thanks gopro!

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheadogg20

Ive been running p/rr/s for 3 months soon to start my 4th and im still amazed at all the progress I have made. Thanks gopro!

Awesome to hear! You are very welcome my friend!

Posted by: ShnouzedUp

Posted by: Diablo1990

Week 1 -- Power

Monday (Push)
CG bench press...3 x 4-6
Skull crushers 2 x 4-6
Single arm dumbell extension...1-2 x 4-6
Incline dumbell press...3 x 6-8
Bench press...3 x 8-10
Flye...2 x 10-12
Single arm dumbell press...2 x 6-8
Bent lateral...2-3 x 8-10
Cable side lateral...2 x 10-12 (Substitute)

Wednesday (Pull)
Rack deadlift...3 x 3-6
Bent row...3 x 4-6
Weighted chin...2-3 x 4-6
CG seated row...2-3 x 4-6
Barbell curl...2 x 4-6
Preacher curl...2 x 4-6
Hammer curl...1-2 x 4-6

Friday (Legs)
Squats...3 x 4-6
Leg press...3 x 4-6 (Substitute)
Single leg extension...2 x 4-6 (Substitute)
Lying leg curl...3 x 4-6 (Substitute)
Stiff deadlift...2-3 x 4-6

Week 2 -- Rep Range

Monday (Push)
Weighted dip...3 x 6-8
Pushdown...2 x 8-10
Kickback...1-2 x 10-12
Incline dumbell press...3 x 6-8
Bench press...3 x 8-10
Flye...2 x 10-12
Single arm dumbell press...2 x 6-8
Bent lateral...2-3 x 8-10
Cable side lateral...2 x 10-12 (Substitute)

Wednesday (Pull)
CG weighted chin...2 x 6-8
WG T-Bar row...2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
Dumbell row...2 x 10-12
Pullover...2 x 12-15 (Substitute)
Alternating dumbell curl...2 x 6-8
Cable curl...2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
Concentration curl...1-2 x 10-12

Friday (Legs)
- Leg extension...2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
- Hack squat...3 x 10-12 (Substitute)
- One legged leg press...3 x 12-15 (Substitute)
- Lying leg curl...2 x 6-8 (Substitute)
- Stiff deadlift...2 x 8-10
- Single leg curl or seated leg curl...1-2 x 10-12 (Substitute)

Week 3 -- Shock

Monday (Push)
Pushdown/CG bench press superset...1-2 x 6-10 each
Reverse grip pushdown/incline overhead extension superset...1-2 x 6-10 each --??
Dropset weighted bench dip...1 x 8-10, drop 8-10
Superset...cable crossover/incline smith press...1-2 x 8-10 reps each (Substitute)
Superset...incline flye/dips...1 x 8-10 reps each
Dropset...machine bench press...1 x 8-10, drop 6-8, drop 6-8 optional (Substitute)
Seated side lateral/hammer machine press superset...1-2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
Severse pec deck/WG upright row superset...1-2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
Cable front raise dropset...1 x 6-8, drop 6-8, drop 6-8 optional (Substitute)

Wednesday (Pull)
Pullover/WG pulldown superset...1-2 x 8-10 each
Stiff arm pulldown/reverse grip bent row...1-2 x 8-10 each (Substitute)
CG seated pully row dropset...1 x 6-8, drop, 6-8, drop, 6-8 (Substitute)
EZ bar curl/CG chin superset...1 x 6-10 each
Preacher curl/reverse curl superset...1 x 6-10 each
Dropset cable single arm curl...1 x 6-10, drop 6-10 (Substitute)

Friday (Legs)
Superset: leg extension/front squat...1-2 x 8-10 each (Substitute)
Superset: leg extension/sissy squat or leg press...1-2 x 8-10 each (Substitute)
Dropset: lunge...1 x 8-10, drop, 8-10
Superset: leg curl seated or lying/toes pointed hyperextension...1-2 x 8-10 each (Substitute)
Dropset: single leg curl...1-2 x 8-10, drop, 8-10 (Substitute)

What are pullovers?? I don't know what a lot of these excercises are and I am limited to mostly Dumbbells, Barbells, Dip / Pullup Machine, Lat Pulldown Machine. I need exercises for the ones that say (Substitute).

~Thanks in advance.

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo1990

Week 1 -- Power

Monday (Push)
CG bench press...3 x 4-6
Skull crushers 2 x 4-6
Single arm dumbell extension...1-2 x 4-6
Incline dumbell press...3 x 6-8
Bench press...3 x 8-10
Flye...2 x 10-12
Single arm dumbell press...2 x 6-8
Bent lateral...2-3 x 8-10
Cable side lateral...2 x 10-12 (Substitute)

Wednesday (Pull)
Rack deadlift...3 x 3-6
Bent row...3 x 4-6
Weighted chin...2-3 x 4-6
CG seated row...2-3 x 4-6
Barbell curl...2 x 4-6
Preacher curl...2 x 4-6
Hammer curl...1-2 x 4-6

Friday (Legs)
Squats...3 x 4-6
Leg press...3 x 4-6 (Substitute)
Single leg extension...2 x 4-6 (Substitute)
Lying leg curl...3 x 4-6 (Substitute)
Stiff deadlift...2-3 x 4-6

Week 2 -- Rep Range

Monday (Push)
Weighted dip...3 x 6-8
Pushdown...2 x 8-10
Kickback...1-2 x 10-12
Incline dumbell press...3 x 6-8
Bench press...3 x 8-10
Flye...2 x 10-12
Single arm dumbell press...2 x 6-8
Bent lateral...2-3 x 8-10
Cable side lateral...2 x 10-12 (Substitute)

Wednesday (Pull)
CG weighted chin...2 x 6-8
WG T-Bar row...2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
Dumbell row...2 x 10-12
Pullover...2 x 12-15 (Substitute)
Alternating dumbell curl...2 x 6-8
Cable curl...2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
Concentration curl...1-2 x 10-12

Friday (Legs)
- Leg extension...2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
- Hack squat...3 x 10-12 (Substitute)
- One legged leg press...3 x 12-15 (Substitute)
- Lying leg curl...2 x 6-8 (Substitute)
- Stiff deadlift...2 x 8-10
- Single leg curl or seated leg curl...1-2 x 10-12 (Substitute)

Week 3 -- Shock

Monday (Push)
Pushdown/CG bench press superset...1-2 x 6-10 each
Reverse grip pushdown/incline overhead extension superset...1-2 x 6-10 each --??
Dropset weighted bench dip...1 x 8-10, drop 8-10
Superset...cable crossover/incline smith press...1-2 x 8-10 reps each (Substitute)
Superset...incline flye/dips...1 x 8-10 reps each
Dropset...machine bench press...1 x 8-10, drop 6-8, drop 6-8 optional (Substitute)
Seated side lateral/hammer machine press superset...1-2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
Severse pec deck/WG upright row superset...1-2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
Cable front raise dropset...1 x 6-8, drop 6-8, drop 6-8 optional (Substitute)

Wednesday (Pull)
Pullover/WG pulldown superset...1-2 x 8-10 each
Stiff arm pulldown/reverse grip bent row...1-2 x 8-10 each (Substitute)
CG seated pully row dropset...1 x 6-8, drop, 6-8, drop, 6-8 (Substitute)
EZ bar curl/CG chin superset...1 x 6-10 each
Preacher curl/reverse curl superset...1 x 6-10 each
Dropset cable single arm curl...1 x 6-10, drop 6-10 (Substitute)

Friday (Legs)
Superset: leg extension/front squat...1-2 x 8-10 each (Substitute)
Superset: leg extension/sissy squat or leg press...1-2 x 8-10 each (Substitute)
Dropset: lunge...1 x 8-10, drop, 8-10
Superset: leg curl seated or lying/toes pointed hyperextension...1-2 x 8-10 each (Substitute)
Dropset: single leg curl...1-2 x 8-10, drop, 8-10 (Substitute)

What are pullovers?? I don't know what a lot of these excercises are and I am limited to mostly Dumbbells, Barbells, Dip / Pullup Machine, Lat Pulldown Machine. I need exercises for the ones that say (Substitute).

~Thanks in advance.

Well, that is a bit of a tall order. Try this first...go to this site:

http://www.exrx.net/

Click on exercise instruction, then exercise directory and you will be able to find dozens of exercises (with video) for each bodypart. This should help you make substitutions with what you have available.

Posted by: Diablo1990

I wanted to start today but like most exercises I don't know which sucks bad

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo1990

I wanted to start today but like most exercises I don't know which sucks bad

Did you look on that site? Which exercises do you not know?

Posted by: Diablo1990

Cable side lateral...2 x 10-12 --> Lateral Raises?
Rack deadlift...3 x 3-6 -- > RDL? If I have SLDL friday won't this be to much? basically same thing right?

Leg press...3 x 4-6 (Substitute)
Single leg extension...2 x 4-6 (Substitute)
Lying leg curl...3 x 4-6 (Substitute)

Can I substitute them 3 with just deadlifts? How many sets?

Single arm dumbell extension --> Don't know this exercise
Incline dumbell press --> Meaning like military presses or what
Single arm dumbell press -- > like DB bench press but with one arm?
Bent Laterals -- > How do I do them exactly?

Leg extension...2 x 8-10 (Substitute)
- Hack squat...3 x 10-12 (Substitute)
- One legged leg press...3 x 12-15 (Substitute)
- Lying leg curl...2 x 6-8 (Substitute)
Single leg curl or seated leg curl...1-2 x 10-12 (Substitute)

What can I substitute with all them?

I am totally lost what to put for the shock week lol

~Thanks in advance

Posted by: Alpha

WOW! This is another thread on p/rr/s

But nevertheless, very good information. Thanks gopro!

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

WOW! This is another thread on p/rr/s

But nevertheless, very good information. Thanks gopro!

LOL...they are everywhere!

Posted by: PGT

Hey Gopro Ive been using your P/R/S system im 5'7 182lbs %fat not sure ill say 20ish or more, Want to cut ive been using your example of exercises exactly just wondering is there anything your would change for cutting ive been doing p/p/r/s or p/r/r/s or p/r/s/s after 2 full cycles i take 1 week off.
any advice is helpful thanks,

Posted by: AKIRA

I am wondering if this program would be good for me. I am training for size right now, especially in my legs. I have a herniated disk, but after months of rehab, the doctor has let me do squats and deads again. So far so good, but the weight is light.

I want to put a program together, but I wouldnt know if this is a good idea with my back.. Since Ive been back at the gym, my back hasnt gotten any worse and my weight is coming back on the deads and squats, so I kinda really dont know!

Posted by: AKIRA

My power week irritated my back when I did squats. It was the first time my back felt affected since Ive been back into the gym. I believe it was cuz of my extreme jump in weight for the sake of the Power week.

I was doing 4 sets 155lbs before p/rr/s.
I did 3 sets of 225lbs, 6 reps. Pretty big jump.

I am in rep range week and all is better. I will have to substiture squats though...then again, if that intesity is what did it, then much lighter weights for common sense AND the rep range week could entail atg squats again.

Might be better off being safer than sorry.

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGT

Hey Gopro Ive been using your P/R/S system im 5'7 182lbs %fat not sure ill say 20ish or more, Want to cut ive been using your example of exercises exactly just wondering is there anything your would change for cutting ive been doing p/p/r/s or p/r/r/s or p/r/s/s after 2 full cycles i take 1 week off.
any advice is helpful thanks,

You don't need to change anything! Let PRRS maintain all of your muscle, while diet and cardio takes care of the fat burning!

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

I am wondering if this program would be good for me. I am training for size right now, especially in my legs. I have a herniated disk, but after months of rehab, the doctor has let me do squats and deads again. So far so good, but the weight is light.

I want to put a program together, but I wouldnt know if this is a good idea with my back.. Since Ive been back at the gym, my back hasnt gotten any worse and my weight is coming back on the deads and squats, so I kinda really dont know!

I also have a severely herniated disk in my low back, but continue to make gains on PRRS. I just have had to adjust the exercises a bit.

Posted by: MillerMan

doing triceps before chest not the smartest thing to do in the same workout.

Posted by: BigPapaPump68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo1990

I know this is old, but would this be to much training? GP, if using a 3 day split, what changes would you make to it? Thank you!

Posted by: BigPapaPump68

Bump for previous post

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPapaPump68

I know this is old, but would this be to much training? GP, if using a 3 day split, what changes would you make to it? Thank you!

No, it is not too much training as long as you are getting enough rest and proper food to recover from workout to workout.

Do not train triceps before chest, but chest, then delts, then tris.

Here is the best site I know of to find BB/DB exercises for each muscle:

Exercise & Muscle Directory

Posted by: BigPapaPump68

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

Exrx has to be one of the, if not the best site for exercises. Thanks a lot Eric

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPapaPump68

Exrx has to be one of the, if not the best site for exercises. Thanks a lot Eric

Glad to help!

Posted by: Built

I rarely train chest and delts on the same workout so this doesn't often come up for me, but why do you recommend training chest before delts?

(I'm not disagreeing, I've heard it before - I just don't remember hearing the reason.)

Posted by: rantorcha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I rarely train chest and delts on the same workout so this doesn't often come up for me, but why do you recommend training chest before delts?

(I'm not disagreeing, I've heard it before - I just don't remember hearing the reason.)

Not to answer this in a condescending way at ALL (I want to make sure you don't take it that way), but try working out delts one day first before chest and you will see that your chest training sufferes greatly. Clearly I don't know the scientific reason per se, but I think since there are so many stabalizer muscles when doing delts that if you do them first they are "fried" and stabalizing the weight for chest is tha much harder...at least that's what has happened to me when I've stupidly tried it once....a long, long time ago. lol

If you want scientific proof, perhaps someone wrote a paper on it once and will post it.

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by rantorcha

Rantorcha, I have a rotator cuff impingement. I have broken my right shoulder and my right collarbone in two separate injuries, and I have a rotator cuff impingement that flares up if I don't baby the hell out of my delts. If I train delts and pecs on the same day, neither gets hit very hard.

When I train hard and heavy, I generally train delts and pecs on separate workouts, to avoid pissing off my right RC. That's one of the many perqs of training upper body in Ian King's arrangement of horizontal and vertical planes - RC strain is minimized, spread out over two workouts instead of hammering them all at once. Delts of course are used for both vertical and horizontal pressing, of course - this way you have more frequent hits, a strategy that many natural lifters find beneficial.

You're quite right about the stabilizers - but wouldn't the converse also be true, that your delt work would suffer from having trained pecs first? I can't imagine doing heavy clean-and-press after floor-presses and dips!

Posted by: rantorcha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

You're quite right about the stabilizers - but wouldn't the converse also be true, that your delt work would suffer from having trained pecs first? I can't imagine doing heavy clean-and-press after floor-presses and dips!

I guess if you were using those types of exercises, there is NO WAY you would be able to hit delts afterwards. But if you stick to regular presses, laterals, and rear laterals (if you do rears on that day), you should be ok. Obviously, your "presses weight" would have to go down a smidge, but IMO delts (although much more intricate of a muscle group than chest) are a smaller muscle group and can (emphasis on can) be hit after chest.

You also have to take into consideration what your goals are. That also determines the type of split you incorporate.

Posted by: Built

Sure, that makes sense.

My goal is hypertrophy in the pecs and hypertrophy in the delts. That's why I use the heavy movements I use, and on separate days.

What is the purpose, in your opinion, of hitting them both with isolation movements and on the same day?

Posted by: highpockets

Don't mean to butt in, but I will anyway.

I've been working my chest and delts on the same day for a few P/RR/S 9 week cycles now and I feel that I'm not getting a very good shoulder workout due to hitting the chest first.

I'm going very light this week as I just finished a 9 week cycle last week. Next week I have changed my new 9 week cycle of P/RR/S like this.

Monday: Chest, Tris, Abs
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Back, Bis, Abs
Friday: Delts

I'm curious to see how this works out for me. Just my .02.

Posted by: Built

See, that's why I like splitting up chest and delts: you get to hit delts hard, too.

Could you maybe try chest-and-bis (push and pull); back-and-tris (pull and push); hams-and-abs; delts-and-quads (start with delts, while you're fresh)? Spread it out a bit more?

Just a thought. I'm sure you'll come up with something effective.

Posted by: gopro

Interestingly, I have used every split imaginable, and working delts right after chest works best for me. I like to hit arms in total on a single day, and give back and legs their own days. My delts get a far better workout and much fuller pump when I work them after chest. This seems to warm up the joint and my rotators making all of my shoulder movement more comfortable and effective. The weights I can use are only minimally affected.

Posted by: Prince

I also train shoulders after chest, have done it for years, I have tried training shoulders on a separate day but that seems to lead to over training for me, I have never trained shoulders before chest as I think my chest work-out would suffer quite a bit.

Posted by: Built

I suppose it would be overtraining if you did "shoulder day".

I don't. I train shoulders with at least one other movement pattern, usually a pulling movement, sometimes a pull and legs.

I respect that not everybody needs to spread delt and pec training over different days. I just don't understand why - for those who do - it's better to train delts after pecs if:
1. you train them both on the same day and
2. your objective is hypertrophy for both.

Like I said, I've heard this repeated many times, and it's a moot point for me because it's way too much RC strain on my old injured joints, but it's a puzzle to me.

But then, so is arm day.
I don't think I've ever done "arm day" come to think of it. Or shoulder day or back day or leg day. Hmm... do you perform two bodypart days a week? Or just one?

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I suppose it would be overtraining if you did "shoulder day".

I don't. I train shoulders with at least one other movement pattern, usually a pulling movement, sometimes a pull and legs.

I respect that not everybody needs to spread delt and pec training over different days. I just don't understand why - for those who do - it's better to train delts after pecs if:
1. you train them both on the same day and
2. your objective is hypertrophy for both.

Like I said, I've heard this repeated many times, and it's a moot point for me because it's way too much RC strain on my old injured joints, but it's a puzzle to me.

But then, so is arm day.
I don't think I've ever done "arm day" come to think of it. Or shoulder day or back day or leg day. Hmm... do you perform two bodypart days a week? Or just one?

Current Split:

M: CHEST/DELTS/ABS
T: QUADS/HAMS/CALVES
TH: LATS/TRAPS/LWBACK/ABS
FRI: BIS/TRIS/FOREARMS/CALVES

Exhausted delts will interfere with efficient chest training far more than vice versa because of the nature of the movements/muscles involved.

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Exhausted delts will interfere with efficient chest training far more than vice versa because of the nature of the movements/muscles involved.

Ah, that's what I've been looking for - thank you.

Can you expand upon this a bit more? What specifically do you mean with regard to the movements/muscles involved?

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Ah, that's what I've been looking for - thank you.

Can you expand upon this a bit more? What specifically do you mean with regard to the movements/muscles involved?

Well, basically what I mean here is that all chest movements...presses, dips, and flyes...all strongly engage the anterior delts especially, with some stimulation of the lateral and posterior heads as well. If your delts are exhausted then all of your chest exercises will be affected, making it not only weaker in all movements, but harder to "feel," as well as to train efficiently (delts will reach failure long before the chest).

The other way around the effect on delt training is not all that bad. Perhaps presses will be affected to some degree, but laterals and upright rows can still be used to isolate the delt heads without engaging the chest. Thus, you can still get an effective delt workout.

Posted by: Built

Now that makes sense. So since the front delts have had such a massive hit, you don't need to hit them with another massive hit for the ensuing delt work.

Now personally, I've found from experience that my delts grow better from being hit with more volume and more frequency, plus of course my right rotator cuff "issue", so I'll keep my vertical and horizontal pressing separated. But it's good to know this information for those who routinely train both on the same day. Much obliged.

Posted by: juggernaut

Built, how did this injury come about?

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Now that makes sense. So since the front delts have had such a massive hit, you don't need to hit them with another massive hit for the ensuing delt work.

Now personally, I've found from experience that my delts grow better from being hit with more volume and more frequency, plus of course my right rotator cuff "issue", so I'll keep my vertical and horizontal pressing separated. But it's good to know this information for those who routinely train both on the same day. Much obliged.

Exactly! I sometimes forego a pressing movement for delts altogether because of all the chest pressing work (and I focus quite a bit on various incline angles), and utilize different types of laterals and upright row type movements.

Posted by: Built

So strange how these "personal geometries" allow us to do some things well, and limit us in other aspects. I can NOT do upright rows without pain, but bench dips - an utterly HORRIBLE movement for the RC by all accounts, I'm fine with - and I do 'em with two plates on my lap. There's a youtube up of me doing them in Ohio a couple of years ago. My late friend Mike took it on his camera and put it up. I'm so glad he did that, because I can hear his voice in it. I miss him. He was fabulous.

Do you find certain muscles on you seem to respond to more volume than others, Eric? For me, it's delts and quads. Bis I seem to grow in my sleep, and I think I've done abs three times since last summer, but quads, damn they've been my nemesis. My hams are huge, the always want to do EVERYTHING!

Posted by: Tank316

Quote:

M: CHEST/DELTS/ABS
T: QUADS/HAMS/CALVES
TH: LATS/TRAPS/LWBACK/ABS
FRI: BIS/TRIS/FOREARMS/CALVES

Same here

Quote:

I sometimes forego a pressing movement for delts altogether because of all the chest pressing work (and I focus quite a bit on various incline angles), and utilize different types of laterals and upright row type movements

If I feel up to it, I throw in some OH press, but since I started focusing on SL and uprights rows my shoulders dont get that ''trashed'' feeling. And after my r/c surgery I havent had any issues.

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Built, how did this injury come about?

My shoulder? I wiped out my RD350 back in 1985. Spent 10 months in a figure eight harnass with a busted collarbone. Then again in 1995, busted my right shoulder when I hit a pothole while riding my bicycle going downhill to see the fireworks. Heh - never did make it that year.

Posted by: gopro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Do you find certain muscles on you seem to respond to more volume than others, Eric? For me, it's delts and quads. Bis I seem to grow in my sleep, and I think I've done abs three times since last summer, but quads, damn they've been my nemesis. My hams are huge, the always want to do EVERYTHING!

For me, not really. All my muscles seem to need about equal volume, although I do a bit more for my back than other groups.

Posted by: Pirate!

I have RC issues, and the shoulder plan Eric set up for me had every lateral in the book with no horizontal presses. It was easy on my shoulder and yeilded decent results. However, the lying dumbell pullovers for my lats were problematic. Just seeing people do dips makes me cringe.

I could use some fresh ideas for tightening up my rc. I do all my old rehab exercises, but's it's pretty lose, and I'm getting impingement and sub-acromial bursits. I know baseball pitchers and quarterbacks trainers have some techniques. I showed some swimming techniques to my therapist a few years ago, and he recommend I stop those.

Posted by: Pirate!

After rereading a great article called shoulder savers by Eric Creesey, I realized one of my many errors has been total neglect of subscapularis work, which explains why I can't seem to keep my left humerus depressed dispite all my serratus work.

Posted by: Built

Look for an article by Boris Bachman called "shouldering through the pain", and look for the shoulder series by his nom du plume on youtube: johnny mnemonic.

YouTube Video

Phenomenally helpful.

Have you tried doing Oly bar corner presses for your pushing work? They're awesome! Also, in addition to avoiding the pullovers, no upright rows of course, and no wider-than-shouder pulldowns.

You done scapular pushups? Go to a plank, keep the arms straight, and sink into your scapulae, then push them back up, all with the arms straight. I could barely do them when I started. Now I do them all the time, on my non-upper-body days, when I'm stretching after I train. Do a few sets of ten whenever you think of it.

Posted by: juggernaut

t-nation did an exercise where you start out doing a sumo deadlift and corner press with the end of the bar. My clients love it and it really gets the heart rate going.

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