Originally Posted by Stalker23

ive been stuck on a platue for bench for a long time now. I am dissapointed to even say i have loss power. I WAS doing 160x5 for four sets, and now i can barly do that for one set.

I dont know what im doing wrong. I triend Bill Starrs 5x5 for intermediates, and i worked up to my current 5 RM, which was 160, and wehn i treid to get 165 for 5 reps, i failed and only got 4.

I know that when i am going for the heavier weights, my form goes to hell, so maybe resetting will allow me to perfect my bench form. my elbows tend to flare out (not at 45 degree angles), and one arm raises faster than the other. the weight also seems to be to far towards my head (near the top of my chest)

If you are stuggling with teh weight, should you use improper form- or will this only hurt you wehn you try to get bigger weights?

Any suggestions....should i reset and try to go at the 5 x 5 again thsi time making sure i use proper form?

thanks

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Post your exact workout....not just your bench workout.
Post when and how long was your last break from working out.
Post how many times a week you lift and how many times a week you hit each muscle.

Originally Posted by Stalker23

I follow Bill stars intermediat program- heres the link to it
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...4&postcount=15

and heres what it is

Monday
Squat 5x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Bench 5x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Barbell Row 5x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups

Wednesday
Squat 4x5
First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again
Incline or Military 4x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5
Deadlift 4x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups

Friday
Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Barbell Row 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)

after my lifts began to decrease is when i took a 2 week break from benching, and came back weaker barly able to do 160 x 4. so thats when i went on this program, and ive alread stalled...still weaker than i was before.

thanks for you help

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I hate workouts like that espically for a beginner. I recomend you do push/pull/legs for the next several months. Hitting a muscle group 3x a week is way too much IMO.

Originally Posted by P-funk

actually, the bill starr 5x5 program is a great program for someone that is just past that "begning"/learning phase of training (about 8-10 weeks into just starting training). The program that he has up there is just a little over the top and advanced for him. But, the 5x5 is great for people starting out to really add size and strength. As wellas it teaches you basic periodization and how to use the fitness fatiuge model.

Push/pull/legs spreads things out to much and is not enough frequency.....kind of like body part training...why wait 7 days to train push muscles again? Lift more frequenty and take advantage of the fact that metabolic recovery is taking place. Not that you can't use it though. I would cycle it through in the under-reaching portion of a program, so that you have great rest between workouts and can be more fresh. Something like 4-6 weeks of total body workouts, ramping up volume like a mother fucker and then unload for a week and follow up with push/pull/legs, with low volume but kick the intensity up and take advantage of the fitenss gains that you made with the higher volume/work load of training.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

3x a week is too much for most people over the long run. Sure it will work for a short time espically for young kids or guys on the juice. When you hit 35 let us know how 3x a week feels on your old body.

Originally Posted by P-funk

I train most people on three times a week. Even those that are into their 60s. Most of my buddies that are approaching 40 still train three times a week.

It has to do with how you break up your volume and manage intensity.


If you are smart and understand periodization, you can make anything work.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Damn, that rules me out

Originally Posted by Stalker23

arent periiodized programs for more advanced lifters. Im not a begginer, but im not ready to peridize my wokrouts.

Originally Posted by P-funk

not really. periodization is just the method of organization/planning that you use.

it is for anyone.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Indeed. However, I think for advanced lifters some form of periodization is a must. You reach a point where you essentially have to overreach in order to stimulate some form of adaptation from your body. If you did this all the time, then you would reach a state of overtraining.

Originally Posted by P-funk

yea, I said "not really" to his question of whether he needs it or not.....I wasn't saying it to mean that advanced lifters DON'T need it.

everyone needs it. even the begniners.....that is the way you progress from the begining phase into more intense/complex training.

Originally Posted by Stalker23

you talk about overtraining...and i was thinking of switching ot the begginer version of the 5 x 5, where you end up squating 3 days per week (same weight easch day, until you incease 2;5% at the end of the week) It just looked like way to much to me.

Originally Posted by Stalker23

you talk about overtraining...and i was thinking of switching ot the begginer version of the 5 x 5, where you end up squating 3 days per week (same weight easch day, until you incease 2;5% at the end of the week) It just looked like way to much to me.

Originally Posted by P-funk

3x's a week but day 2 is 20% of day one. that is more like active rest then anything. that is really light.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You mean a 20% decrease right? That's what I'm doing right now for my unload week. I cut the volume down a bit and decreased all the weights I would be using by about 20%.

Originally Posted by P-funk

yes, 20% decrease.

so 100kg on monday would be 80kg/5x5 on wed.

Originally Posted by thebarbarianway

Sorry if I just broke forum etiqute by reading the first post...scrolling down and than posting. I was just having this same conversation:

Never do a exercise that you are no longer making gains in. I give every exercise '2 chances.' Meaning that if I have a workout that does not 'out do' my previous one than I will do that exercise ONE more workout (to give it another chance to make sure it was not just the day etc). If I can not out do myself or see improvement than I dump that exercise temporarily and pick a different exercise.

Moral of the story: You should ALWAYS be making gains in some size, shape or form...