Safety Problem [Forum Archive]

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Safety Problem

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Posted by: michiganfball01

My friend who is 18 was talking about taking steriods particularly D-bol. He talked to me about everything and and told me he had the cycle all worked out. First taking the Dianabol and Nolvadex and PCT, he is taking milk thistle and joint replenisher to make sure his muscles dont outgrow his joints too much and all the protein he needs i guess according to his source so it should be safe according to him and it seems like it to me. He seemed to have it figured out and I read up on Dianabol myself. I guess it was invented awhile ago for track athletes and such. This lead me to believe that it was a good "SPORT" steriod and not just a bodybuilding steriod if that is an ok assumption. I know I only know a fraction of what all you guys know who have dealt with steriods know; so I have a few questions. He is one of our star players thin but still good muscle mass and strong as well. He wants to go on the cycle which will take him about 10 weeks. This means into football with the cylce. I have a few questions with this.

1. With football starting in a month would it be bad for him to be doing the cycle while intense conditioning and hard hitting is going on or do they still take roids in the nfl during the season, I mean with the track and field background that d-bol had that i read it wouldnt seem like a bad thing to me to be running so much but i dont know too much?
2. With him having ripped muscles and not being a thick linebacker type would it hurt him running the football to put on the mass Dianabol does?

Basically just need a little information on if this is a good idea; i mean, I know steriods wouldnt be a good thing for him to take at 18 like he and I have read but I just would like to know if you guys would definitely not think it was a good idea to do it with football starting and just wait until after football to do a cycle when there isnt intense running and conditioning and such? Thanks I appreciate all the feedback in advance

Posted by: TJ Cline

Your friend is an idiot....

Next

Posted by: musclepump

Moron.

Tell him to enjoy the shutdown.

Posted by: michiganfball01

what do u mean shut down? serious body shut down or what?

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiganfball01

what do u mean shut down? serious body shut down or what?

This question is one of many reasons a 18 year old should not use steroids

Posted by: BigPapaPump68

Testosterone shutdown he meant. Are you sure its your friend your talking about and not you who is the jackass? Tell your friend that he's a dipshit.

Posted by: Mudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiganfball01

what do u mean shut down? serious body shut down or what?

Liver is one possibility, but testosterone suppression and testicular atrophy were implied. Cholesterol will take a hit as well, which will probably take months to correct.

Posted by: musclepump

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Liver is one possibility, but testosterone suppression and testicular atrophy were implied. Cholesterol will take a hit as well, which will probably take months to correct.

I love being able to come off as the smart ass, and Mudge follows-up with the intelligent explanation so I don't have to. Thanks bro

Posted by: ag-guys

18 is VERY young, not a good idea

AG-Guys
www.AG-Guys.com

Posted by: ZECH

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiganfball01

he is taking milk thistle and joint replenisher to make sure his muscles dont outgrow his joints

I didn't know that could happen

What really happens in this case is that your muscles grow very fast and get strong quickly, and your tendons lag behind and it is very easy to tear or injure one.

Posted by: Trouble

Hey Michigan,

Couple good reason why both you and your friend should rethink anabolic steroid use.

1. You are still undergoing full body and mental development. Muscle, bone/thymus/spleen, connective tissue, liver, adrenals, thyroid, and brain are all still turning genes on and off, a function of tissue differentiation that represents the adult regulated state. Anabolics and lipolytics (aas) bind to to the key regulators of metabolism in brain, liver, and muscle tissue.

If you screw with this very high level of cellular regulation now, before those adult genes are fully functioning and also while genes that regulate puberty are still active, you will pay a price for the rest of your life, in metabolic control.

2. Muscle is now known to be the key tissue that regulates energy metabolism, through its interaction with the liver. AAS turns on liver drug metabolising genes, and these, in turn, changes the way your liver makes its own lipids. These lipids have been recently discovered to signal for glucose and fatty acid metaboism. Glucose regulates muscle anabolic response. You do not want to alter this delicate cascade, as the there are long term reprocussions in fiddling with the controls of energy metabolism.

3. These liver lipids also regulate thyroid and adnrenal function. Change the way they are made, and you will have shifted the ability of these organs to operate normally in adulthood. In turn, they affect brain, and the brain sends the all important signals for test production to testes and test producing peripheral tissues. While you have high levels of test, you do not want to shut down this production for several years (being candid on the likelihood of continued cycle use once started), or you may find yourself on maintenance doses of HRT (thyroid and test ) for the rest of your adult life.

4. If you active stem cells in bone at your present age, you will fuck badly with your ability to replace damaged cells once they have run out of division capacity in the future.

5. You also are altering how the body reacts to stress, because these aas compounds also bind to glucocorticoid receptor in many tissues. How you react to stress hormone affects the rate your cells age.

6. AAS also binds to growth regulators in cardiac tissue; there are unpleasant results from playing with cardiac controls in mid-adult and mature adult years.

7. You are fucking with brain neurohormones at the same time. This affects bheavior, in a well known and documented cascade of events. It changes risk sensing, addiction probability, anxiety modulation, pain sensing and control, goal reward behaviors, and social behavior / mood controls.

In short, you are promoting very unhealthy brain function that will worsen over time, because it encourages continued use. One cycle leads to the next, when aas temporarily "fixes" body image and social function (self confidence) and lagging aggression issues.

I could go on, there are immune system tradeoffs that are quite detrimental, as well as bone growth plate and connective tissue repair problems. Elevated aggression, changes in sleep patterns, high rates of drug detoxification in liver, growth promoting diet, and reduced immune function all contribute to a problem in how the body responds to stress.

You will be a prime candidate for chronic stress disorders in your mid-adult years, maybe earlier.

These are the tradeoffs for a few short years at best of anabolic benefits if you start them now or begin use before age 26-28. Even then, there are longterm tradeoffs, including fertility and the strong probability of germ line gene changes that will manifest itself in your offspring. Note that this last condition can also occur from use of drugs that also bind to those liver lipid gene regulators - like accutane and pct compounds.

Like it or not, estrogen nuclear receptor is expressed in males for a damn good reason, and its shutdown post cycle is assinine practice. Protection of delicate brain tissue from anabolic induced respiratory oxidation is just one of many assaults from use of estrogen receptor modifiers.

Are these strong words in an anabolic form dedicated to the intelligent use of these steroid analogs??

Yes sir, they are. We would be remiss if we didn't describe to you the costs associated with the use of these compounds.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:

These are the tradeoffs for a few short years at best of anabolic benefits if you start them now or begin use before age 26-28. Even then, there are longterm tradeoffs, including fertility and the strong probability of germ line gene changes that will manifest itself in your offspring. Note that this last condition can also occur from use of drugs that also bind to those liver lipid gene regulators - like accutane and pct compounds.

Like it or not, estrogen nuclear receptor is expressed in males for a damn good reason, and its shutdown post cycle is assinine practice. Protection of delicate brain tissue from anabolic induced respiratory oxidation is just one of many assaults from use of estrogen receptor modifiers.

Now I'm almost 23 now, and I've done a couple cycles already (not when I was 18, more like almost 22) so I'm in that "fucked" category right? What about these IFBB pro's, were they not juicin at a fairly early age?? What do we know of their mental and physical well being??

And that second paragraph...are you advocating against PCT in general??? Or just in the case of young males?? Or maybe you mean that AI's are a better choice than say nolvadex?

Posted by: Trouble

Ahh Birmingham AL. I was down in Tuscaloosa for about a decade.

Per the ER regulation by pct: No, you can go without it, I'm jest pointing out the tradeoffs, as I said clearly in my post. Overzealous damping of ER isn't a good idea.

Are you in the fucked category? Don't know, depends on what you use, how long you use it, and how badly you are screwing with gene regulation.

Now, I wonder how much benefit you can get out of starting aas before you reach your maximum natural potential (mass)? Seems kinda foolhardy to take them risks when you haven't really stepped up to the plate in terms of development potential. Can't do that much before you're in your mid-20s, unless you have unusual genetics.

Don't give a rat's patoot about what the pros use. Little chance of you making it to that level, and they pay quite a cost. Of course, there arent that many that make it to the top and actually reap monetary rewards for them tradeoffs.

If you're using it for other reasons, body image or self confidence issues, well...its stop gap. Its not going to fix perceptual or anxiety issues, is it? If you're using it for athletic gains..thats an ethics issue, I guess. Not gonna touch that one with a ten-foot pole.

Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Ahh Birmingham AL. I was down in Tuscaloosa for about a decade.

Per the ER regulation by pct: No, you can go without it, I'm jest pointing out the tradeoffs, as I said clearly in my post. Overzealous damping of ER isn't a good idea.

Are you in the fucked category? Don't know, depends on what you use, how long you use it, and how badly you are screwing with gene regulation.

Now, I wonder how much benefit you can get out of starting aas before you reach your maximum natural potential (mass)? Seems kinda foolhardy to take them risks when you haven't really stepped up to the plate in terms of development potential. Can't do that much before you're in your mid-20s, unless you have unusual genetics.

Don't give a rat's patoot about what the pros use. Little chance of you making it to that level, and they pay quite a cost. Of course, there arent that many that make it to the top and actually reap monetary rewards for them tradeoffs.

If you're using it for other reasons, body image or self confidence issues, well...its stop gap. Its not going to fix perceptual or anxiety issues, is it? If you're using it for athletic gains..thats an ethics issue, I guess. Not gonna touch that one with a ten-foot pole.

Well I'm actually a personal trainer, so image is important, yes...worth SERIOUS health risks...probably not....but from what I've seen and read, serious long term health risks appear to be low. With irresponsible use I'm sure the risk goes up...

I also want to get into bodybuilding...at my age I don't consider it to be an unattainable goal.

My first cycle was pretty mild...just a little bit of test E and that was all...one shot E5D...second was 1cc sust/1cc deca E7D...last one was 1cc tren ace/2cc prop EOD. I also take quite the long breaks between cycles...3months+

As far as emotional problems or mood swings...I would be a prime candidate for the evils of steroid use....but to be honest, I've gotten BETTER at controlling my emotional state and my temper since I've used AAS. I'm accrediting that to an increased level of maturity, not the drugs heh...

As far as how much you can get out of AAS before you reach a natural genetic potential....that's debatable, I don't care what anybody says....I think it's a great idea to have years of training under your belt...but waiting for gray hair and the imminent mid life crisis is surely not the rule of thumb...I gained 20lbs+ the first cycle....a little over 20lbs again with the second cycle and with the 3rd cycle (cutting cycle) I lost 10lbs. (funny thing is, I only lost weight ON cycle...didn't lose any weight at all post cycle like I expected, I did up my cals a little purposefully)

When you say overzealous dampening of ER, be more specific please...I haven't visited this section of the forum for a little while but last I checked people were advocating 60/40/40/20 PCT with nolv..and maybe some aromasin.

Posted by: musclepump

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

Brother, if you're on 8-12 weeks, staying off 3 months really isn't a long time. I'd say of the dozens of users I know, the average is two cycles a year.

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