Joint pain [Forum Archive]

Pages: 1

Joint pain

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: fufu

I've been experiencing joint pain in my knees, ankles, shoulders, and hips. It always starts after I play tennis for two or more days in a row. I hate this seeing as I'm 19. I do stretch well after training, but I don't really think it has much to do with stretching. I'm looking into some joint aid supplements. Any suggestions?

Posted by: fufu

OK maybe this should have gone into the supplements section, idk. There must be other means to help the pain though.

Posted by: Trouble

What does a day of play constitute? Many hours on hard clay or asphalt courts?

Lets ask why you are having this problem rather than looking for a bandaide.

Posted by: shiznit2169

It's probably because you are doing too much. I mean, looking through your journal, you say that you play tennis for about 1.5-2 hours and that is a lot of running and using your legs to get back and forth. Then you hit the gym and have a heavy leg session consisting of squats, deads, sldl's, and so forth. You may feel fine and can get through it but in the long run, your joints are going to ache up and become tight.

If it keeps up any longer, either go see a doctor or just give it some rest and cut down the leg sessions or tennis playing in the future.

Posted by: Seanp156

My knees somewhat bother me just from throwing cardio into the mix... Moreso if it's on a treadmill, but sometimes even just from a couple 15-20 min sessions of biking/elliptical per week.

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

What does a day of play constitute? Many hours on hard clay or asphalt courts?

Lets ask why you are having this problem rather than looking for a bandaide.

I probably play between 2-4 hours a week on hard court. I supposed I could possibly look into some new shoes.

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

It's probably because you are doing too much. I mean, looking through your journal, you say that you play tennis for about 1.5-2 hours and that is a lot of running and using your legs to get back and forth. Then you hit the gym and have a heavy leg session consisting of squats, deads, sldl's, and so forth. You may feel fine and can get through it but in the long run, your joints are going to ache up and become tight.

If it keeps up any longer, either go see a doctor or just give it some rest and cut down the leg sessions or tennis playing in the future.

Tennis is alot of running, and in a way it isn't. It mostly short explosive sprints, which I supposed might take a harder toll on the joints than jogging.

Posted by: JordanMang

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Tennis is alot of running, and in a way it isn't. It mostly short explosive sprints, which I supposed might take a harder toll on the joints than jogging.

I get he same pains after football practice. My trainer said it's because my joints inflame because of the short explosive burst we do as lineman ( 5-10 yards ). A lot of guys get them. I get them for the first 2-3 weeks then they start to fade. In the meanwhile I usually go and take a dip in the ice-cold whirl-pool.

Posted by: fufu

I do like go to for a swim after playing tennis. Feels good on the joints.

Posted by: Trouble

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanp156

My knees somewhat bother me just from throwing cardio into the mix... Moreso if it's on a treadmill, but sometimes even just from a couple 15-20 min sessions of biking/elliptical per week.

Well that's strange, since both of these cardio exercises are recommended for patients with knee problems. They are nearly zero impact...unless you are over enthusiastic in your peddling force. Or your leg workouts, take your pick.

Posted by: Trouble

Yup, sounds like an over-use problem. Plus, you started a new training program, right? Try new shoes, use the cold showers or ice packs, or refrain from playing for as frequently for the time being.

Try Cissus quadrangularis and glucosamine HCL (not sulfate). I would also recommend turmeric extract, twice per day with meals.

Posted by: fufu

Alright, I thought cissus might be brought up at some point. I'm looking into some new tennis shoes because I am currently wearing classic style which have nearly no shock absorption, but they were alot cheaper than the others.

The tendonitis in my right arm has been disheartening, it tends to come up when I play 2-3 days in a row. It hasn't been bothering me as much since I started play matches instead of just practicing. I'll look into those supplements and see what I can do, thanks.

Posted by: Trouble

Okey dokey.

Your shoulder problem is on your dominant side, and its primarily an over use issue with the shoulder girdle. Only way to fix that is to start rotator cuff rehab exercises. There are number of really good sites on the web. I wrote an indepth response elsewhere with links; I'll try to dig it up for you here in the next day or two.

Hips are a related issue, and that a biomechanical torsion and flex problem originating in stance and dictated by the relative strength of columnar support (not locomotion as much as structure stabilization for bipedal motion). These muscles must be brought into balance.

My guess is that knees, hips and shoulders all have slack-normal movement. Gotta tighten them babies to keep sloppy action from causing excessive movment over the contact surfaces and dislocation from causing joint connective tissue damage. See, each of these ball and soket joints has some play. If the joint movement is too generous, you get excess rubbing of the connection surfaces as well as lateral movement in some cases, which stretches that delicate capsule that frames the joint, keeping it aligned. That can develop stress microtears.

You keep them healing by your combined tennis and lifting routine approach.

Thats your bad karma, the slow recovery process for overuse injury at joints.

Pilates or yoga or a combination of strength and stretch moves will help knees and hips, rotator cuff exercises for the shoulders, which are being worked hard in overhand moves, including serves. Very stressful and high impact again.

See where I'm going here? You are working these in the gym, with those push exercises (overheads and bench) and then working them hard during recovery days.

Might have to rethink your goals and options. Tennis is about very fast move, high-G turn, spin, and torque / force moments on joints. At your age, you shouldn't have these problems...unless you are seriously overstressing them by short-circuiting recovery.

Which you are, unwittingly.

Tell your trainer about your problem, our conversation, and ask him for advice on rehab. P-funk has addressed knee rehab here in other threads. Hips are associated with lower spine erector and abdominal stabilizers. Start to look for online resources and pilates / stretch & strength how to books that help with lower back and hips alignment and tightening.

Sound like a plan?

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Okey dokey.

Your shoulder problem is on your dominant side, and its primarily an over use issue with the shoulder girdle. Only way to fix that is to start rotator cuff rehab exercises. There are number of really good sites on the web. I wrote an indepth response elsewhere with links; I'll try to dig it up for you here in the next day or two.

Hips are a related issue, and that a biomechanical torsion and flex problem originating in stance and dictated by the relative strength of columnar support (not locomotion as much as structure stabilization for bipedal motion). These muscles must be brought into balance.

My guess is that knees, hips and shoulders all have slack-normal movement. Gotta tighten them babies to keep sloppy action from causing excessive movment over the contact surfaces and dislocation from causing joint connective tissue damage. See, each of these ball and soket joints has some play. If the joint movement is too generous, you get excess rubbing of the connection surfaces as well as lateral movement in some cases, which stretches that delicate capsule that frames the joint, keeping it aligned. That can develop stress microtears.

You keep them healing by your combined tennis and lifting routine approach.

Thats your bad karma, the slow recovery process for overuse injury at joints.

Pilates or yoga or a combination of strength and stretch moves will help knees and hips, rotator cuff exercises for the shoulders, which are being worked hard in overhand moves, including serves. Very stressful and high impact again.

See where I'm going here? You are working these in the gym, with those push exercises (overheads and bench) and then working them hard during recovery days.

Might have to rethink your goals and options. Tennis is about very fast move, high-G turn, spin, and torque / force moments on joints. At your age, you shouldn't have these problems...unless you are seriously overstressing them by short-circuiting recovery.

Which you are, unwittingly.

Tell your trainer about your problem, our conversation, and ask him for advice on rehab. P-funk has addressed knee rehab here in other threads. Hips are associated with lower spine erector and abdominal stabilizers. Start to look for online resources and pilates / stretch & strength how to books that help with lower back and hips alignment and tightening.

Sound like a plan?

Ok thanks for the advice. The thing is, I had the exact same tendonitis problems way before I started weight training. The frequency of pain is still the same now. I can take 6 months off from tennis, then if I play 3 days in a row I'll still get the same pains.

By the way, I don't have a trainer.

I have a feeling the back/hip pain could also be from reaching down and gathering balls, in a sort of ballistic manner. I have to cut that out. I should also start some dynamic stretching pre-playing. I'll probably have to cut tennis way down, but I don't know what else to fill my time with.

Posted by: fufu

Also, I can only find glucosamine chondroitin with sulfate. What is HCL, and where can I find it? How does this product look?

Posted by: Trouble

You can buy glucosamine hydrochloride at Wally World.

Get a job or do some volunteer work to fill your day productively.

Posted by: fufu

Washing dishes ftl.

Posted by: Seanp156

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

I'll probably have to cut tennis way down, but I don't know what else to fill my time with.

Isn't this a no-brainer for a l33t g4m3R

Posted by: Trouble

I am seeing correctly here?

A fucking product advertisement in the middle of this thread? Of is that banner that didn't quite make it to the right place in the database? No wait, we already have a banner up top...

Posted by: Seanp156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

I am seeing correctly here?

A fucking product advertisement in the middle of this thread? Of is that banner that didn't quite make it to the right place in the database? No wait, we already have a banner up top...

You're correct, unfortunately

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Sad but true.

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanp156

Isn't this a no-brainer for a l33t g4m3R

lawl. I do enjoy video games but my life needs more balance. I really do like working if I can find an interesting jorb. I really should go out and apply more. Tommarow I'll do it! Maybe...

Posted by: BigDyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

lawl. I do enjoy video games but my life needs more balance. I really do like working if I can find an interesting jorb. I really should go out and apply more. Tommarow I'll do it! Maybe...

You should beat Elder Scrolls 3. That will take a year or so, especially if you complete every quest.

On a side note, I haven't touched the 360 in a while.

Posted by: Seanp156

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

lawl. I do enjoy video games but my life needs more balance. I really do like working if I can find an interesting jorb. I really should go out and apply more. Tommarow I'll do it! Maybe...

Work is over-rated, but yes, it is necessary for balance... And money...

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDyl

You should beat Elder Scrolls 3. That will take a year or so, especially if you complete every quest.

On a side note, I haven't touched the 360 in a while.

lawl I beat that about 6 months ago. Took me 2 years of on and off play to beat. My guy is leetx2389 on that.

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanp156

Work is over-rated, but yes, it is necessary for balance... And money...

mmmm....money.

Posted by: SuperFlex

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

I've been experiencing joint pain in my knees, ankles, shoulders, and hips. It always starts after I play tennis for two or more days in a row. I hate this seeing as I'm 19. I do stretch well after training, but I don't really think it has much to do with stretching. I'm looking into some joint aid supplements. Any suggestions?

Are you overweight? If so, that's probably you're problem. It could also be from overuse of your joints. Weight training and sports are often too much for peoples joints. I can't lift and play softball a lot. Benching then throwing is just too much on my shoulder since hurting it. Definitely make sure to warm up and not to go all out right away. Hopefully that helps.

Btw, the best joint medicine I know of is from Labrada.

Posted by: Trouble

Astute observation/comment on the overuse injuries SF.

Would be nice for Fufu to update us on his progress.

Posted by: BigDyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Astute observation/comment on the overuse injuries SF.

Would be nice for Fufu to update us on his progress.

I will mention to him that he needs to reply to this thread.

Posted by: fufu

lawl, ok.

No, I'm not overweight, 5' 11''ish 175-180 lbs. It is probably overuse, I stopped tennis all together, I haven't had any tendonitis problems. That was all expected because I never would if I didn't play tennis.

I did develop another shoulder pain but I have been working on it and the shoulder has been feeling solid for that past week. I have cut out overhead pressing for the time being and been doing rotator cuff work. I couldn't find cissus at either walmarts near my house(45 minute travel). Tennis was pretty much the problem, oh well I can do with out it. Hips are fine, knees are fine, elbows are fine, shoulder is fine(mostly), and ankles are fine(as of the past few weeks). I do get some lower back stiffness now and again but that is from too much time on the computer. Oh yeah, Yoga probably helped out too.

Thanks for the help/comments.

Posted by: P-funk

tennis can be brutal on the joints. Lots of stop/starts, lots of change of direction, lots of high impact as well as lots of pattern overload with the hand that sqings the raquet.

Rotator cuff work would be a good idea.

what kind of things do you do in your workout you prepare for the high impact forces in teniss? I would be doing reactive training to teach the body how to absorb and apply force properly as well as working on stop starts and change of directions to help learn how to land properly and move. This kind of stuff can really pay off if you are playing a lot of tennis.

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

tennis can be brutal on the joints. Lots of stop/starts, lots of change of direction, lots of high impact as well as lots of pattern overload with the hand that sqings the raquet.

Rotator cuff work would be a good idea.

what kind of things do you do in your workout you prepare for the high impact forces in teniss? I would be doing reactive training to teach the body how to absorb and apply force properly as well as working on stop starts and change of directions to help learn how to land properly and move. This kind of stuff can really pay off if you are playing a lot of tennis.

Well I haven't been doing anything speficic in my training to help me with tennis. Do you have any suggestions?

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Well I haven't been doing anything speficic in my training to help me with tennis. Do you have any suggestions?

low level plyo metrics like quick feet drips for time

Both legs first (basically hops on both feet, athletic/hip width stance, knees slight bent, hop as fast as you can for 6 sec, rest, repeat)

alternating feet (like running in place but very quick. same set up as above)

single leg quick feet drills

both legs lateral quick feet
single leg lateral quick feet
ice skaters
squat jumps
lateral hops
foreward hops
since leg lateral hops
single leg foreward hops
agility ladder
lunge jumps
lateral side to sides on cardio step
alternating leg quick feet on cardio step

as far as single leg strength goes:
multi planer lunges
backwards lunges
side lunges
lunge to balance
single leg balance and reach
single leg RDL
single leg squat touchdown
skater lunges
lunge and reach (all planes)
step ups
step ups with hip flexion on non-working leg (90 degrees hip and knee flexion and dorsiflexion at the ankle)
lateral step ups
lateral lunge to balance

if you have great leg strength, you can do more advanced plyos:
depth drop landings
depth jumps
depth jumps with DBs on the drop, and then quick release them before jumping
depth drop to foreward jump
etc....

as far as rotator work goes:
ext. rotation
internal rotation
scaption raises
YTA's
prone incline Y's
shoulder adduction
shoulder protraction
shoulder retraction
high cable reverse flyes
etc....

as far as rotary strength goes:
cable rotations
cable rotatios with back leg triple extension
cable chops
cable reverse chops
cable reverse chops with back leg triple extension
kneeling cross body rowing patterns (PNF patterns)
standing cable PNF
single leg single arm standing PNF
med ball rotation passes
med. ball cross body slams
etc.

lots of shit. tennis is a pretty diverse sport so there are tons of things you can do.

Dale can probably fill in all the things I missed as well.

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Wow, thanks! I'm saving that.

Posted by: fufu

I'm going to play a match today, going to have to play smart.

Posted by: fufu

Thought I'd throw an update in here. I've been doing rotator cuff strengthening movments for a good 4 months now consistantly. I haven't had any shoulder pain at all actually. Except for some instances when I overhead press(after the fact, the next day). However, it is mostly a stiffness and only hurts if I apply a force to the area. So I pretty much cut all overhead pressing out of the mix, but I still do on occasion.

Hips have been great as well. I don't experience any of the pains I used to. I attribute this to a better stretching routine post workout, foam rolling, and unilateral movement.

Ankles, fine. There was a couple weeks period recently where my right one was stiff, but I think I just "tweaked it", it is fine now.

Back is well also. I do get some stiffness and dull pain now and again, but that usually follows prolonged sitting. It was getting some dull chronic pains a while ago throughout my back. I decided to cut out deadlifts for a while and now I have recovered. Started dead again, and back is feeling fine. I think it was just an overuse thing. Taking it easy on those.

Knees. Suffering from some tendonitis I believe. It all came about when I cut out deadlifts, and in turn ended up doing more squatting movements to fill the void. Couple that with doing an olympic lift on one of my upper days, my knee was getting alot of load. I have been taking it easy on the squats, and since I have started doing deads again it is easier. Stopped doing cleans for now also. I find Bulgarian squats don't bother my knee at all, so I've been sticking those in my workouts for now. I've been icing a couple times a day and use ibuprofin/topical analgesic(icy hot) on occasion(only about 1-2 times a week). It is recovering though. It doesn't bother me walking, ascending/descending stairs, running. It actually only bothers me now if I press against it with my fingers. I'll give it another couple weeks and I think I should be fine.

Posted by: fufu

Oh, and of the course the main reason why most the pain is gone is because I stopped high ground impact sports. lawl, forgot to mention that!

Posted by: Vieope

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Knees. Suffering

Posted by: fufu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vieope

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Joint pain

Article Archives

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60