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Exogeneous T question...

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Posted by: musclepump

Because the body generally falls within a natural range, is it possible that there's a certain amount of Test one can adminster to themselves without shutting down natural T prodution? Or is it simply the release of exogeneous hormone into the body that causes the shutdown, no matter how much?


Posted by: Pirate!

If your levels are low, you can use enough to put you within normal levels without causing shut down. My dad's on hrt, and that is what he is doing.


Posted by: brogers

I thought I had seen a study demonstrating that even subphysiological doses of exogenous testosterone caused essentially the same LH drop as did supraphysiologic doses.


Posted by: Trouble

I would give a cautious...no as an answer.

See this page of abstracts.. To my eye, several of these suggest that test in oil alone at sub-to low supra won't quite cause total shutdown, you need progestins as well (just as you do in wimmin on bc, even though estrins - patentable estrogens- are used in that case).

Looks like the majority of applications is for medical castration and male birthcontrol pills.

Interesting.


Posted by: musclepump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trouble
I would give a cautious...no as an answer.

See this page of abstracts.. To my eye, several of these suggest that test in oil alone at sub-to low supra won't quite cause total shutdown, you need progestins as well (just as you do in wimmin on bc, even though estrins - patentable estrogens- are used in that case).

Looks like the majority of applications is for medical castration and male birthcontrol pills.

Interesting.
So would Test gels prevent shutdown?


Posted by: Pirate!

You need your LH level checked. If it is primary hypogonadism, your LH will be fine, which means it's you balls that aren't responding. If this is the case, HRT is possilbe without lowering your LH. My dad does 200 mg Test C every three weeks and still has normal LH levels. If you are going to be on HRT, why do you care if you are shut down?


Posted by: musclepump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate!
If you are going to be on HRT, why do you care if you are shut down?
I don't think anyone would want to be on HRT forever. I think it would be nice to know that if you quit taking in the extra, you'd still function as before (albeit with low levels of T).


Posted by: aceshigh

just do a cycle u know u want to


Posted by: Trouble

Pirates point is well taken. Find out if you have either primary or secondary hypogonadal issues.

"Function" is a relative term. Depends on the gene expression modifications that have occured as a result of exogenous steroid use - and the downstream biochemistry that is disturbed.

It also depends on whether you want to reproduce, or whether it affects your mental and immune function. Oh yeah, it used to be thought that immune function was mostly the function of ER (estrogen receptor). Nope, been provent that various immune response components (that protect against cancer malignancy) are stimulated by test production.

Unless steps are taken to correct the induced dysfunction, it seems unlikely that you would spontaneously return to normal test production. Dysfunction can occur from gene regulation problems in testes, liver, adrenal, thyroid, and pituitary/thalamus/hypothalamus. There maybe a combinations of tissues that have become dysregulated through feedback loop conditioning.

Note that factors associated with inappropriate lifestyle are apparently inducing hypogondism in young men who have never touched steroids.


Posted by: Pirate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by musclepump
I don't think anyone would want to be on HRT forever.
That is how it works. Your body won't start making more testosterone as you get older. HRT is usually a life commitment when dealing with testosterone. If you want to produce more testosterone, don’t look into HRT. Look at lifestyle, diet etc, as Trouble mentioned.


Posted by: musclepump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate!
That is how it works. Your body won't start making more testosterone as you get older. HRT is usually a life commitment when dealing with testosterone. If you want to produce more testosterone, don’t look into HRT. Look at lifestyle, diet etc, as Trouble mentioned.
I'm not sure I could get healthier than I am now. I can only imagine what my T levels would be if I was eating crap and not working out.


Posted by: musclepump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate!
That is how it works. Your body won't start making more testosterone as you get older. HRT is usually a life commitment when dealing with testosterone. If you want to produce more testosterone, don’t look into HRT. Look at lifestyle, diet etc, as Trouble mentioned.
Also, I'm less worried about having 340 ng/dl at age 35 than I am at my age. As a young guy there's a lot more effect that low T has than if I were older.


Posted by: Trouble

If you are making less that you should be at your age, you might want to do a litttle detective work to figure out why. Like i said, look at liver, thyroid and anterior pituitary diagnostics. Did it start out low and get hammered by roids?

Stress (acute and chronic), acute illness, low body fat, liver problem, thyoid meds/lipolytics/other drugs, alcohol, high fat diet (not your problem, just mentioning it), lack of adquate rest at the right time of night, history of depression, can play a role in artificially repressing test production.

Do not assume its not reversible or restorable. Get some lab tests done and then come back to the health section.


Posted by: musclepump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trouble
If you are making less that you should be at your age, you might want to do a litttle detective work to figure out why. Like i said, look at liver, thyroid and anterior pituitary diagnostics. Did it start out low and get hammered by roids?

Stress (acute and chronic), acute illness, low body fat, liver problem, thyoid meds/lipolytics/other drugs, alcohol, high fat diet (not your problem, just mentioning it), lack of adquate rest at the right time of night, history of depression, can play a role in artificially repressing test production.

Do not assume its not reversible or restorable. Get some lab tests done and then come back to the health section.
Well, the only drugs I've used are M1T and 1-AD/4-Derm. It has been awhile since the last of two runs with them, as well. I'm using directlabs.com to get my LH levels checked, and I'll go from there.


Posted by: Pirate!

What time of day was your test? Your T level can vary alot in a short period of time. With a few adjustments to diet (good fats, slight caloric excess etc) and other lifestyle adjustments, it's possible that your T level will be closer to 600 in a week. You have to get regular tests before you can determine a problem.


Posted by: musclepump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate!
What time of day was your test? Your T level can vary alot in a short period of time. With a few adjustments to diet (good fats, slight caloric excess etc) and other lifestyle adjustments, it's possible that your T level will be closer to 600 in a week. You have to get regular tests before you can determine a problem.
It was about an hour and a half after I woke up.


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Exogeneous T question...


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