Sleep and recovery [Forum Archive]

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Sleep and recovery

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Posted by: PreMier

Ok, lets say I sleep 6 hours at night, then get a 1-2 hour nap during the day.. will I recover just as well if I slept 7-8hrs straight at night?

Posted by: Trouble

No.

Sleep induced recovery means that the brain shuts down to a low idle, and much needed repairs take place during down time - this happens between hours 4 and 7, the first few hours are for data sorting, processing and storage, and the last for forging new associations, a sort of internal learning and integration of knowledge, for which a slow awakening of certain parts of your brain are necessary. This coincides with the rise in autocrine function as the body prepares for the business of survival for another day.

Naps temporarily provide energy by shutting down drain on low supplies. Thats all. Once you pass out of the early stages of sleep into deeper sleep in a long nap, you confuse and disrupt important internal clock processes.

This is not a good practice. I can't recommend it, Premier, as neuromuscular fatigue is associated with a higher baseline of stress hormone. Normally, this is due to the accumulation of oxidative damage (wear and tear) from simple living and hard training for extended periods. Not so in the case of missed sleep. This is the disturbance of fundamental nighly repairs. Once the cells are damaged beyond a certain point (as they are, in chronic sleep deprivation), they cannot be repaired.

You have only so many cell divisions. In order for higher order creatures, like humans, to survive to have long natural lives, our bodies must be very parsimonious (hang on tightly to our cells), and so we have clever repair and defense mechanisms.

Each one of these mechanisms is disabled when we short cut our sleep. There is no real recovery and repair under these circumstances. Furthermore, sleep is the golden key for growth hormone release. Its pulsate, and its minions, IGF-1 and other anabolic hypertrophic factors, are being tuned to do their cellular best at about the time you are cutting sleep off...

In other words, it promotes accelerated aging. I can tick off other issues, like faulty blood sugar control and appetite management..need I really say more?

I think not.

Posted by: PreMier

Thanks for the insight.. I work long hours, so I tend to sleep 6 or so hours at night, then nap in the mid day. Looks like I will just have to try and get more sleep.

Posted by: Vieope

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Ok, lets say I sleep 6 hours at night, then get a 1-2 hour nap during the day.. will I recover just as well if I slept 7-8hrs straight at night?

No.

Posted by: Trouble

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Thanks for the insight.. I work long hours, so I tend to sleep 6 or so hours at night, then nap in the mid day. Looks like I will just have to try and get more sleep.

Its very easy to run into this situation. In recent surveys by sleep physiologists, the vast majority of the chronotype (sleep preference type) for people who function (have the most energy) at night - so called night owls - is determined by work hours.

But, the reasons of personal preference for people working these jobs, outside of small pay differential, is more obscure. It appears to arise from unusual changes in the hypopituitary portion of the brain, often manifesting early in life (the colicky baby who easily stays up late, is one example) - and it results in unnatural patterns of stress hormone release throught the day and on into evening.

However, even "lark" or morning chronotype people like myself can make changes in daily living patterns that contribute towards an adoption of "night owl" preference over time. It only took about 3 or 4 months, in my case, of working extended hours, often late at night.

As they say, "been there, done that", Premier.

Posted by: hardasnails1973

This could have been useful when I was competing because during my lunch hour i would go in the first aid room with lights off and take a good 30 minute snooze and i would wake up usually by my own snoring LOL. So in the short term it was a quick fix gave me great energy, however over the long term could have been more detrimental. I was always under the impression cat naps were always good obviously I have been mistaken for many years. Amazing how we have been miss lead for so many years..

Posted by: Trouble

HAN, you twist my words again, but not deliberately I think.

Let me clarify:

As a temporary stop gap (not daily), for the occasional missed nights sleep (anxiety, illness, extenuating circumstances), short naps (cat naps are OK).

Longer sleep, 1 or more hours, not good --> disturbs sleep cycling

Chronic reliance on naps mid-day is a bad idea --> its stop gap, not a replacement for missed sleep at night --> sign of elevated cortisol tail, blunted peak and elevated night time cortisol --> can lead to adrenal insufficiency --> can result in hypopituitary / hpogonadal issues in adult years

Posted by: hardasnails1973

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

HAN, you twist my words again, but not deliberately I think.

Let me clarify:

As a temporary stop gap (not daily), for the occasional missed nights sleep (anxiety, illness, extenuating circumstances), short naps (cat naps are OK).

Longer sleep, 1 or more hours, not good --> disturbs sleep cycling

Chronic reliance on naps mid-day is a bad idea --> its stop gap, not a replacement for missed sleep at night --> sign of elevated cortisol tail, blunted peak and elevated night time cortisol --> can lead to adrenal insufficiency --> can result in hypopituitary / hpogonadal issues in adult years

I know i have a bad habit of doing that but the last part of the chain events looks all too familar ..kind of like deja vu.

Posted by: Trouble

Yes, you have this hypopituuitary/hypogonadal issue...

and do so a whole heck of a lot of adults..now, many young adults as well.

Posted by: hardasnails1973

So what has to be done in order for americans to understand this? I guess it will have to take either a famous head of state or some high profile athlete or movie star to fall prey to it before something is done. What has society become nothing but a bunch of robots and numbers. I guess the days of pioneer of free thinking are history.

Posted by: Trouble

*sarcastic tone*

Maybe the current health crisis and the thought of having a hefty percentage of our population on $600+/month chronic symptom supression medication will be incentive enough...

Or maybe not. We are inured to the "just in time" mentality.

Why fix today what you can put off until tommow?

Posted by: hardasnails1973

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

*sarcastic tone*

Maybe the current health crisis and the thought of having a hefty percentage of our population on $600+/month chronic symptom supression medication will be incentive enough...

Or maybe not. We are inured to the "just in time" mentality.

Why fix today what you can put off until tommow?

I love one day to see orthomolecular medicine and traditional medicine combine to work together to give people a better quality of life, but your better off seeing hell freeze over first.

In a perfect world one could see the usrda revamp for higher nutritional needs of vitamins and nutrients. if I remember right the daily allowance of Mg in canada is 600 mgs vs our 320? and with this new standards in place. an indept nutritional profile at the tissue level would be part of a person bi annual check up. From the results of the test then the drug companies could produce a supplement based on the individual needs. This would not be a curall but rather strong preventative measure. During the check up the dr would emphaisis stress modification and offer lifestyle changes NOT PAXIL. We can all dream right..

Check email trouble sent you something that might interests you

Posted by: Trouble

If I look back over my shoulder, I can just see the tiny figures at the forefront of orthomolecular medicine. I am a bit farther along in the comprehension of cause, although there is synergy with treatment and prevention.

Posted by: Gordo

So is it just myth that we need less sleep as we get older? You hear a lot of older folks claim this. Does that have something to do with diminishing Growth Hormone production as we age. The body is doing less cellular repair and as a result less sleep is the outcome?

From what I gather: "“Early to bed and early to rise, Makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise” still rings as true today as it ever did.

Posted by: Trouble

More likely, lifestyle factors depresses growth hormone output beyond typical age-related reduction. But there are also issues: increased tendency towards intestinal (upper and lower) GI, a direct result of shitty diet lacking in fruits and vegetables and enriched in the wrong fats and high in carbs, with lower to nil fiber. This causes a reduction in the efficiency of food ingestion and uptake, and that leads to deficiency in key enzymes and micronutrients necessary for melatonin production. This curtails sleep. Lifestyle also engenders an increase in cortisol, which can become a factor in what we called Advanced sleep phase syndrome (ASPS), very common in those with hypogonadal issues (low hGH), low thyroid - the elderly and peri- and post menopausal women.

Note that a sedentary lifetyle is also closely associated with sleep cycle disorders and reduced growth hormone output; the two are coupled by integrated brain and liver chemistry cycles.

Posted by: CowPimp

Good question Premier. Sometimes I am simply not able to get sufficient sleep in one fell swoop. Anyone else who is or was a personal trainer knows the fucked up hours you have to work to make it.

I don't get home until 10:30 most nights of the week, and sometimes I have to be awake at 4:30 the next morning, 5:30 at the latest. I am usually asleep by 11:30, so I grab 5 hours, 6 if I'm lucky, but I definitely need a 1-3 hour nap mid day if that happens or I just feel like shit.

To make up for it, I don't work mornings Tuesday and Thursday. Those days I get a cool 8 hours of sleep, and sometimes a bit more. I don't think I could handle this schedule otherwise.

I do try and get some decent sleep (7+ hours a night) on the weekends too. So, usually 3 days a week I get sleep in 2 parts, and the other 4 I get a solid bout of sleep in one session. Do you think this is a reasonable way to combat the odd hours I have to work?

Posted by: BigDyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Good question Premier. Sometimes I am simply not able to get sufficient sleep in one fell swoop. Anyone else who is or was a personal trainer knows the fucked up hours you have to work to make it.

I don't get home until 10:30 most nights of the week, and sometimes I have to be awake at 4:30 the next morning, 5:30 at the latest. I am usually asleep by 11:30, so I grab 5 hours, 6 if I'm lucky, but I definitely need a 1-3 hour nap mid day if that happens or I just feel like shit.

To make up for it, I don't work mornings Tuesday and Thursday. Those days I get a cool 8 hours of sleep, and sometimes a bit more. I don't think I could handle this schedule otherwise.

I do try and get some decent sleep (7+ hours a night) on the weekends too. So, usually 3 days a week I get sleep in 2 parts, and the other 4 I get a solid bout of sleep in one session. Do you think this is a reasonable way to combat the odd hours I have to work?

You may have to do the best you can until you can work your way out of the situation. If you are still making gains, and are keeping relatively sane, then don't stress. Although I'm sure Trouble will mention it's screwing you circadian rythm up. I believe that can be fixed when the time is right though.

Sincerely,

BigD

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDyl

I don't have a circadian rhythm. The times I goto sleep and wake up are totally different depending on which day of the week it is, and not necessarily consistent from week to week.

Ever since I started exercising again I can adjust my sleeping habits to any situation very well. I used to have trouble falling asleep sometimes too; now that is very rare.

Posted by: Trouble

I'll be back tomorrow to answer this thread. I think we need to chat about sleep phasing and its physiology.

Posted by: BigDyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

I'll be back tomorrow to answer this thread. I think we need to chat about sleep phasing and its physiology.

You work too hard. Take a break. Get a massage or something.

Posted by: Trouble

Thank, D, for the thoughtful recommendation. I did just that - took a break on Saturday to go hear excellent jazz at a semi-local jazz fest. I did a little on line work yesterday morning and evening, but managed to get in some relaxation and a useful trip to stock up on supplies, while enjoying unseasonably cool conditions.

Sure wish I could get that massage; touch therapy has manyfold benefits. Beg pardon for my delay in replying to your missives (needed the break this past weekend).

Posted by: hardasnails1973

Very true getting away from the computer for a few days really helps calm my mind and relieve alittle stress.

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Thank, D, for the thoughtful recommendation. I did just that - took a break on Saturday to go hear excellent jazz at a semi-local jazz fest. I did a little on line work yesterday morning and evening, but managed to get in some relaxation and a useful trip to stock up on supplies, while enjoying unseasonably cool conditions.

Sure wish I could get that massage; touch therapy has manyfold benefits. Beg pardon for my delay in replying to your missives (needed the break this past weekend).

No worries. In my case, there isn't really much I can do about it anyway.

Posted by: Trouble

Read this and this, and while you're at it, read and this one too.

Sorry, I'm known to be a bit wordy; I have no intention of pasting up all the info here. It will take you a while to read and digest that information. Let me know when you have chomped your way thru them; I'll answer questions. Indole nutritional biochemistry leads into tryptophan biochemistry in liver and brain. They're all connected to stress/cortisol regulation, via the hGH regulatory cascade and GABA/glutathione imbalances.

Any chance you like to do your cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning?

Rules of Engagement:

There is no such thing as catching up on sleep.

Sleeping in on the weekends is bad karma for cortisol controls.

Tradeoffs for adequate rest are NOT an option. Need to find ways to fix your schedule. Don't say you can't do it; you can.

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Tradeoffs for adequate rest are NOT an option. Need to find ways to fix your schedule. Don't say you can't do it; you can.

I really can't, unless I want to take a paycut (Absolutely cannot happen). It is impossible for me to get home from my last client with sufficient time to get a good night's sleep even if I went to sleep immediately after getting home. It's only a couple nights a week though.

Posted by: CowPimp

Oh, and I never do fasted cardio. It's practically pointless in my opinion.

Posted by: SuperFlex

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Ok, lets say I sleep 6 hours at night, then get a 1-2 hour nap during the day.. will I recover just as well if I slept 7-8hrs straight at night?

It's still good to get the rest. Even a 30 minute nap helps...

Posted by: BigDyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFlex

It's still good to get the rest. Even a 30 minute nap helps...

Untrue.

Posted by: Stewart14

is taking a melatonin supplement at night before bed a bad thing? I find it is one of the only things that helps me to fall asleep and actually stay asleep throughout the entire night. I just don't want to wind up depending on taking it every night to sleep and then suffering negative effects of it somewhere down the road...

Posted by: DaMayor

Oh, sorry.

Nice exchange of information, guys.

Posted by: JimSnow

Trouble,

When I was adapting to a new schedule and didn't get much sleep, if any over days... I found that as long as I could get some frequent REM time - it seemed to make the crucial difference in how I felt and performed!

How would you explain this?

Posted by: Trouble

Had to chew on this question for a while to understand it.

What I believe happened: this was a short-term period of sleep disruption. You found that periods of sleep that appear to re-balance neurochemistry and the associated excitatory activity within brain centers (so-called de-synchonization of the brain). Call it base-line reset. Its really what it this REM sleep appears to be, a reset button that allows you daily to cope with new larger and minor stressors (emotional, physical, environmental) without accumulating damage from these daily (chronic) exposure periods.

Biomedical evidence for this supposition:

Purpose of REM sleep: endogenous anti-epileptogenesis in man -- a hypothesis. Jaseja H. Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(4):546-8.

Neuro-scientists, worldwide, are endeavoring to elucidate the purpose of sleep which still remains largely elusive. There is, however, consensus on many aspects of sleep functions; one such aspect is its relationship with seizures/epilepsy. There is unequivocal agreement on increased susceptibility to epilepsy during nonrapid eye movement (NREM, slow-wave) sleep. Large number of studies have shown increased frequency of seizures and epilepti-form discharges in epileptic patients during NREM sleep (esp., stages I and II) which is associated with EEG synchronization. Similarly, there is widespread acceptance of de-synchronized brain-activity states being associated with rarity/total absence of epileptic potentials, one such state being rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. Certain drugs and substances which inhibit NREM sleep have been found to possess anti-convulsant properties. Not surprisingly, drugs/chemicals which enhance/promote NREM sleep or suppress/inhibit REM sleep are associated with increased susceptibility to seizures and are contraindicated in epilepsy. The manner and pattern in which REM phase occurs in sleep are also naturally programmed to exert anti-epileptogenic influence. This hypothesis-article highlights and conceptualizes the primary function of REM-sleep as endogenous anti-epileptogenic system in the body akin to the endogenous analgesia and immune systems man is born with.

Seizures can be thought of as massed charges that build up like static in the air before a thunderstorm. This rem sleep acts to difuse this buildup and turn the brain system down to "low" setting, to allow healing and tissue recovery and rebuilding to occur nightly.

So, when you don't have this REM sleep period, you feel foggy, maybe a little nauseous, disoriented, maybe have a short-temper, and a hard time concentrating and retaining information. Why? Probably because the brain centers needed for normal mental function need to be reset, returned to a normalized baseline state of normalized biochemical activity.

Not sure if this makes sense. Jim. There is no 'right' explanation for your observation. Just a little clever guesswork based on current opinion/theory.

Posted by: JimSnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Had to chew on this question for a while to understand it.

What I believe happened: this was a short-term period of sleep disruption. You found that periods of sleep that appear to re-balance neurochemistry and the associated excitatory activity within brain centers (so-called de-synchonization of the brain). Call it base-line reset. Its really what it this REM sleep appears to be, a reset button that allows you daily to cope with new larger and minor stressors (emotional, physical, environmental) without accumulating damage from these daily (chronic) exposure periods.

Biomedical evidence for this supposition:

Purpose of REM sleep: endogenous anti-epileptogenesis in man -- a hypothesis. Jaseja H. Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(4):546-8.

Neuro-scientists, worldwide, are endeavoring to elucidate the purpose of sleep which still remains largely elusive. There is, however, consensus on many aspects of sleep functions; one such aspect is its relationship with seizures/epilepsy. There is unequivocal agreement on increased susceptibility to epilepsy during nonrapid eye movement (NREM, slow-wave) sleep. Large number of studies have shown increased frequency of seizures and epilepti-form discharges in epileptic patients during NREM sleep (esp., stages I and II) which is associated with EEG synchronization. Similarly, there is widespread acceptance of de-synchronized brain-activity states being associated with rarity/total absence of epileptic potentials, one such state being rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. Certain drugs and substances which inhibit NREM sleep have been found to possess anti-convulsant properties. Not surprisingly, drugs/chemicals which enhance/promote NREM sleep or suppress/inhibit REM sleep are associated with increased susceptibility to seizures and are contraindicated in epilepsy. The manner and pattern in which REM phase occurs in sleep are also naturally programmed to exert anti-epileptogenic influence. This hypothesis-article highlights and conceptualizes the primary function of REM-sleep as endogenous anti-epileptogenic system in the body akin to the endogenous analgesia and immune systems man is born with.

Seizures can be thought of as massed charges that build up like static in the air before a thunderstorm. This rem sleep acts to difuse this buildup and turn the brain system down to "low" setting, to allow healing and tissue recovery and rebuilding to occur nightly.

So, when you don't have this REM sleep period, you feel foggy, maybe a little nauseous, disoriented, maybe have a short-temper, and a hard time concentrating and retaining information. Why? Probably because the brain centers needed for normal mental function need to be reset, returned to a normalized baseline state of normalized biochemical activity.

Not sure if this makes sense. Jim. There is no 'right' explanation for your observation. Just a little clever guesswork based on current opinion/theory.

It makes some sense to me and supports my observation. Very appropriate response!

Perhaps you could research some "sleep deprivation" studies in order to build upon this.

I'm acutely aware of the importance of REM from my ever-changing lifestyle... and often rely upon - when sleep is not an option.

Posted by: Gordo

came by this.....seems that naps aren't worthless....

Quote:

1: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug 29; [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links
Daytime Napping After a Night of Sleep Loss Decreases Sleepiness, Improves Performance, and Causes Beneficial Changes in Cortisol and Interleukin-6 Secretion.

* Vgontzas AN,
* Pejovic S,
* Zoumakis E,
* Lin HM,
* Bixler EO,
* Basta M,
* Fang J,
* Sarrigiannidis A,
* Chrousos GP.

Psychiatry, Sleep Research and Treatment Center, Penn State College of Medicine, Hershey, Pennsylvania, United States.

Abstract Sleep loss has been associated with increased sleepiness, decreased performance, elevations in inflammatory cytokines, and insulin resistance. Daytime napping has been promoted as a countermeasure to sleep loss. To assess the effects of a 2-hour mid-afternoon nap following a night of sleep loss on post-nap sleepiness, performance, cortisol, and interleukin-6 (IL-6), 41 young healthy individuals (20 men, 21 women) participated in a 7-day sleep deprivation experiment (four consecutive nights followed by a night of sleep loss and two recovery nights). Half of the subjects were randomly assigned to take a mid-afternoon nap (1400-1600) the day following the night of total sleep loss. Serial 24-hour blood sampling, multiple sleep latency test (MSLT), subjective levels of sleepiness, and psychomotor vigilance task (PVT) were completed on the fourth (pre-deprivation) and sixth days (post-deprivation). During the nap, subjects had a significant drop in cortisol and IL-6 levels (P< 0.05), while after the nap, they experienced significantly less sleepiness (MSLT and subjective) (P< 0.05) and a smaller improvement on the PVT (P< 0.1). At this time, they had a significant transient increase in their cortisol levels (P< 0.05). In contrast, the levels of IL-6 tended to remain decreased for approximately eight hours (P = 0.1). We conclude that a 2-hour mid-afternoon nap improves alertness and to a lesser degree performance and reverses the effects of one night of sleep loss on cortisol and IL-6. The redistribution of cortisol secretion and the prolonged suppression of IL-6 secretion are beneficial, as they improve alertness and performance. Key words: cortisol, IL-6, alertness, napping, Sleep loss.

PMID: 16940468 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

Not perfect, but not bad.

Posted by: Trouble

I never claimed they didn't have a benefit. I reported that sleep biochemistry studies have shown that *chronic* reliance on afternoon naps to offset poor sleep habits has a negative impact on plasma cortisol, insulin control, immune response and autonomic system function.

Note that the effects of missed sleep are *almost identical* to those of early morning exercise in the fasted state.

Note also that cortisol spiked after the nap - an echo of normal cortisol release after sleep sufficient to induce REM brain state. However, we don't want a chronic spike in cortisol in the early evening hours - it disrupts melatonin formation and release later on in the evening hours.

Nice citation, Gordo. Thanks for mentioning it. I guess the question becomes...is there a nap duration that is best? The recommendations I've seen are to avoid lengthy naps, keeping them to 30 min.

My own experience is that a long nap screws up the following nights sleep quality and I find myself wired at 11pm.

Posted by: Mudge

I prefer to have my sleep consecutive, no naps. Somehow Jay Cutler pulls off sleeping in shifts which I dont understand, 3x two hour shifts. I dont know if he does this year round or just pre-comp, because he will go to the gym at say, 2am to do cardio to be all alone. He will then tan, and then go home to eat and sleep another shift.

I will say though I swear I spotted some blue under his eyes and he sometimes speaks like even more of a zombie during this time.

Posted by: Gordo

Quote:

My own experience is that a long nap screws up the following nights sleep quality and I find myself wired at 11pm.

Yeah ditto, a short nap I feel like a million bucks. Too long and I acutally feel worse.

sorry if I implied you said naps are worthless (I probably should have said not completely worthless.....I understood you to say they weren't optimal (and I would agree) and definitely not a free pass to bypass quality evening sleep. Long story short, if you have the time to fit in a nap (after a poor night before), it wouldn't be the worst idea

Posted by: katt

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never slept for more than 3 hours at a time without waking up at night.. wake up, go back to sleep, wake up, try to go back to sleep. Even with melatonin, the same thing, only with taking melatonin it made me groggy the next day....

Maybe I'm just a very light sleeper

Posted by: Mista

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

I never claimed they didn't have a benefit. I reported that sleep biochemistry studies have shown that *chronic* reliance on afternoon naps to offset poor sleep habits has a negative impact on plasma cortisol, insulin control, immune response and autonomic system function.

Note that the effects of missed sleep are *almost identical* to those of early morning exercise in the fasted state.

Note also that cortisol spiked after the nap - an echo of normal cortisol release after sleep sufficient to induce REM brain state. However, we don't want a chronic spike in cortisol in the early evening hours - it disrupts melatonin formation and release later on in the evening hours.

Nice citation, Gordo. Thanks for mentioning it. I guess the question becomes...is there a nap duration that is best? The recommendations I've seen are to avoid lengthy naps, keeping them to 30 min.

My own experience is that a long nap screws up the following nights sleep quality and I find myself wired at 11pm.

The last couple of months I have been out late every night during the week (11.30 - 2) and getting up at 7. I have been falling asleep at work in the morning then again after lunch. Then staying out till 4 - 6 on the weekend and sleeping during the day. I have noticed that my imune system is nowhere near what it used to be. A small cut on my hand can take 3 weeks to heal. I had a cut on my leg and its only healed properly now after about 2 months. Im not sure if this is due to poor sleeping patterns but I have developed a problem for sure...

Posted by: BulkMeUp

Quote:

Originally Posted by katt

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never slept for more than 3 hours at a time without waking up at night.. wake up, go back to sleep, wake up, try to go back to sleep. Even with melatonin, the same thing, only with taking melatonin it made me groggy the next day....

Maybe I'm just a very light sleeper

I dont think anyone is meant to sleep in a near unconscious state for 8 straight hours. Sleep goes in cycles. So long as the next day you feel refreshed, i would say your previous nights sleep is good.

Posted by: microtel

for years i've heard that one hour before midnight is equivalent to two hours after midnight, deeper deep sleep takes place before midnight, that according to studies at Loma Linda Med Center in Cali. if i get three hours before midnight it's the same as six afterwards. anyone else heard this? if it's true, then muscle recovery would be even further aided by earlier to bed.

Microtel

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Ok, lets say I sleep 6 hours at night, then get a 1-2 hour nap during the day.. will I recover just as well if I slept 7-8hrs straight at night?

Posted by: Spud

How does that work? The body doesn't have a 24 hour clock.

Posted by: goob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spud

How does that work? The body doesn't have a 24 hour clock.

Intresting...

If your body is synchronized to get tired later, as a proverbial night owls, would that not mean that the pre midnight hours for the earlier synched person would be have the same effect for the night owl, only a couple of hours later?? Especially if the duration of sleep was equal?

Posted by: jasone

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

No kidding! Either go to bed dehydrated or wake up in 4 hours to take a wiz. That wakes me up me every night.

Posted by: microtel

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Oh, and I never do fasted cardio. It's practically pointless in my opinion.

why is fasted cardio pointless?

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