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Machine/Cable Training


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Posted by: mike456

Does it make a big difference compared to Freeweights.

The reason I ask is because the gym available to me has 1 universal weight machine. (Levers for pushing movements, and Cables for pulling movements)

I will only be using the machine for pulling movements (Wide Grip Cable Row, Lat-Pulldowns, And V-Bar Lat Pulldowns to my lower chest while leaning back)

And then for pushing movements I will use my bench and bar (Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Military Press)

And for Legs I will be doing Deep Deadlifts, and SLDL

I been using only freeweights for all of my training (about 20 months)


Posted by: GoLdeN M 07

With cables u can do more exercises.


Posted by: Tough Old Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLdeN M 07
With cables u can do more exercises.
Go back to school lad and take up some other topic as you have no fucking idea what your talkijng about. What the hell does you can do more exercises. Give me a set of Db's and I will show you 10 x the exercises.


Ok poster.....Free weights are the best for strength and size. Free weigths work the stablizer muscles. Look at it this way. Your pulling down on a cable. It does all the balancing for you. Now put a pair iof Db's in your hands and press them over your head. Who's balancing the weights. your or a machine.


Posted by: Malley

Mike gotta use what you have access to. If you cant get your hands onto free weights then it looks like you need to use machines.


Posted by: CowPimp

I like cable equipment. At least you aren't moving on a fixed plan of motion and you have to coordinate the movement to get the weight moved from A to B. I would still try to throw in some freeweight movements where possible, but cable stuff is good if it's what you access to.


Posted by: assassin

u can do pull downs various grips / seated cable rows various grips / use a pull up bar if you can do pull and chinups...that's ok for your pulling movements.........

if you won't have a bar or dumbells ..... do bench pressing on a smith or on seated lever machines ... mix it up with weighted push ups ...........cables will work instead of shoulder side lateral raises with dumbells .... u could do flyes / all triceps work / most isolation work , by using cables ..... any way i think it won't make a big difference using cables and levers....untill you buy a bar and a pair of dumbbells it'll work the same for you ....


Posted by: assassin

for the leg work ...do hack squats on the lever machine , glute ham raises , cable pull throughs and hyper extensions for the lower back.....i think i saw an exercise of doing squats and dead lifts on lever machines search for those exercises on exrx


Posted by: Tough Old Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
I like cable equipment. At least you aren't moving on a fixed plan of motion and you have to coordinate the movement to get the weight moved from A to B. I would still try to throw in some freeweight movements where possible, but cable stuff is good if it's what you access to.
Get a grip on yourself CP. Never mind if you want to take all your knowledge and stay at a buck 75, cool.

Get some free weights and lifts the fuck out of them poster. 95% of the biggest guys on this board stick with free weights. Those that are intelligent and in the early 20's are spinning there wheels and going in the opposite direction will stay little and have sticks for shape.

You want size and mass, get a hold of as much free weight as you can and use it to push and pull and squat..


Cables are fine for rotator cuff exercises.

Do your self a favor and look into bill starrs program. You see a cable movement there, let me knpw. All you'll see is Squats, Deadlifts and Bench and he has made some of the strongest and biggest people walking. You can fiond a bencher, deadlifter or squatter doing it with cables.

The above should tell you something......Sorry CP


Posted by: assassin

he's 15 .... levers and cables will work for him........ there is also no need for free weights for upper back.... u can use your body as a free weight and do pull ups and chin ups .... rows are ok with the cables ....... cables are good for isolation ... levers will work for pushing .... as i said before he's 15 any thing will work for him as a starting program... he could do nice progress using what he has got...... ofcourse mike if you can get free weights , do it ... but if yoou can't stick with what you have got..... and stick to your diet and you'll be bigger and stronger ... untill you have the chance to use more free weights.... (using weighted bw exercises will work even better than free weights ...for example if you can bench 130 lbs add 40 lbs to your body and do push ups ........that won't work for bigger guys that could bench high weights cause they won't be able to add all that weight to their body while doing bw exercise , so the free weights are the only choice..but since you are at the begining of the road do weighted bw ex's and it's ok ..... diet must be your first concern...and good luck mike


Posted by: assassin

i meant that you mix bw with the machines that you have already got.... not bw alone ....then there wouldn't be a point of joining the gym lol benefit from every piece you have got....free weights / cables / machines / levers / bw...


Posted by: Malley

Like I said you gotta use what you have access to, but as soon as you get a chance to ditch the machines do it. I started training with weights whenever I was 14 and found out real fast how much more balanced my body got whenever I switched mostly to free weights. But do your best for now.


Posted by: mike456

In my original post I said I will only be using the machine for pulling movements, I will not use the lever just the cables.

I am just asking will it make a big difference if I do freeweight rows instead of cable rows. I know the levers are shitty, but I see alot of routines were people have cables in there pull day for lat-pull downs and seated rows.
I have freeweights at home and I will be using them for leg day and push day.


Posted by: goob

My gym has heaps of machines and to start with i used them exclusively, and they helped me get good gains. recently i switched to free weights, and felt the difference after every workout - muscles a lot soarer after, more worked. As im relitively new to this i don't know the ins and outs, but from what gains ive had and fatigue after workouts, i'd say freeweights are the way to go.


Posted by: Squaggleboggin

If you're trying to gain size, you will probably see no noticeable differences between pulleys and free weights. If you want to get stronger, incorporate free weights as much as possible so as not to become imbalanced.


Posted by: mike456

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin
If you're trying to gain size, you will probably see no noticeable differences between pulleys and free weights. If you want to get stronger, incorporate free weights as much as possible so as not to become imbalanced.
Yea thats what I was thinking, I have goals for strength and size, Ill try to use only DB's


Posted by: assassin

lol i thought you have no dbs .....dbs will work well... instead of any bb exercise ....


Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Old Man
Get a grip on yourself CP. Never mind if you want to take all your knowledge and stay at a buck 75, cool.
I would be happy to be 175, so long as I had the strength I wanted to go along with it. Remember, I'm not a bodybuilder. There's no need to be an ass.


Quote:
Get some free weights and lifts the fuck out of them poster. 95% of the biggest guys on this board stick with free weights. Those that are intelligent and in the early 20's are spinning there wheels and going in the opposite direction will stay little and have sticks for shape.

You want size and mass, get a hold of as much free weight as you can and use it to push and pull and squat..


Cables are fine for rotator cuff exercises.

Do your self a favor and look into bill starrs program. You see a cable movement there, let me knpw. All you'll see is Squats, Deadlifts and Bench and he has made some of the strongest and biggest people walking. You can fiond a bencher, deadlifter or squatter doing it with cables.

The above should tell you something......Sorry CP
I am definitely not advocating replacing freeweight exercises with cable work all over the place. If you read my quote carefully, it says that I suggest he use freeweights, but if cables are all he has access to then use them. Nonetheless, I still think cable exercises can be used sometimes, just like machines and isolation work.

I prefer to stick with freeweights and compound movements for the most part; you know this if you've ever read my journals or programs I put together. Unforutunately, sometimes people have to use what they can, and sometimes people need to change things a lot to prevent boredom. I would rather see someone use cable equipment than give up on exercising because he's tired of the same old crap or doesn't have access to good freeweight equipment.


Posted by: viet_jon

Personally, I've been overlooking cables and machines. You hear people say everyday, if u wanna get big do the freeweights bla bla bla.

I think there's advantages to both. I dont know the technical breakdown of how it hits your muscles, but by feel, i think they hit them differently at different angles. ex. cable curls vs. db curls. The same movement, but somehow they feel alot different.

so why not get the best of both worlds.


Posted by: viet_jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike456

I been using only freeweights for all of my training (about 20 months)


are u making progress at all? i think u need to work harder judgig by your picture


Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by viet_jon
Personally, I've been overlooking cables and machines. You hear people say everyday, if u wanna get big do the freeweights bla bla bla.

I think there's advantages to both. I dont know the technical breakdown of how it hits your muscles, but by feel, i think they hit them differently at different angles. ex. cable curls vs. db curls. The same movement, but somehow they feel alot different.

so why not get the best of both worlds.
One advantage of using cable equipment is altering the line of pull. With freeweights, you can't do this because gravity always pulls straight down. By applying the force of gravity along a cable, you can alter this so that tension is the fullest throughout the entire movement. Cable flys are a good example. With dumbbells, there is no tension at the very top of the movement where the chest hits its peak contraction point. If you use cables, then there is tension throughout the entire range of motion.


Posted by: viet_jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
One advantage of using cable equipment is altering the line of pull. With freeweights, you can't do this because gravity always pulls straight down. By applying the force of gravity along a cable, you can alter this so that tension is the fullest throughout the entire movement. Cable flys are a good example. With dumbbells, there is no tension at the very top of the movement where the chest hits its peak contraction point. If you use cables, then there is tension throughout the entire range of motion.

this explanation makes perfect sense.


Posted by: Squaggleboggin

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike456
I been using only freeweights for all of my training (about 20 months)
I have, too. I have yet to find a reason not to with my goals. Keep at it. You'll go far, trust me.


Posted by: mike456

Quote:
Originally Posted by viet_jon
are u making progress at all? i think u need to work harder judgig by your picture
my strength gains have gone up good, but size/and bf are very bad because I have a shitty diet, I am trying to stay on a good diet


Posted by: viet_jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike456
my strength gains have gone up good, but size/and bf are very bad because I have a shitty diet, I am trying to stay on a good diet

dude, i know your young and all......so it's not like your running out of time. But what's the point of working out for almost 2 years, getting all the trianing fundamentals down........but slacking on the diet?
....seams like a waste of time to me.

But still, I think there's something else your doing wrong that you havn't figured out yet.


Posted by: Tough Old Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
I would rather see someone use cable equipment than give up on exercising because he's tired of the same old crap or doesn't have access to good freeweight equipment.
That's fucking lame. Let's just advocate the bowflex to everyone because there tired of using freeweights or just plain old lazy. Some cable exercises are fine. About the only one I find usefull is pulldowns if a person can't do pullups. But that about it. The day i get sick of using freeweights and have to switch over because of pure laziness, is the day I stop completely. If your gym doesn't have enough freeweights, change gyms. Hell for $1000 a person can have a home gym and get absolutely hugh. But if he spends that $1000 on a bunch iof cables, then his size is going nowhere quick.

You keep thinking like the above and everyone here can switch to the bowflex.. and then I/M can have strong man contest against the girls from the other sites. Cause that's what your going to turn these kids into, a bunch of sissy's


Posted by: Pedigree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Old Man
That's fucking lame. Let's just advocate the bowflex to everyone because there tired of using freeweights or just plain old lazy. Some cable exercises are fine. About the only one I find usefull is pulldowns if a person can't do pullups. But that about it. The day i get sock of using freeweights and have to switch over because of pure laziness, is the day I stop completely.

You keep thinking like the above and everyone here can switch to the bowflex.. and then I?m can have strong man contest against the girls from the other sites. Cause that's what yopur going to turn these kids into, a bunch of sissy's
Tough is cracking the
Free weights is obviously the way to go, but if I didn't have access to free weights and had to pick between cables and machines, I would use cables because they don't work in fixed planes of motion. I hate 98% of all machines.


Posted by: viet_jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Old Man
That's fucking lame. Let's just advocate the bowflex to everyone because there tired of using freeweights or just plain old lazy. Some cable exercises are fine. About the only one I find usefull is pulldowns if a person can't do pullups. But that about it. The day i get sick of using freeweights and have to switch over because of pure laziness, is the day I stop completely. If your gym doesn't have enough freeweights, change gyms. Hell for $1000 a person can have a home gym and get absolutely hugh. But if he spends that $1000 on a bunch iof cables, then his size is going nowhere quick.

You keep thinking like the above and everyone here can switch to the bowflex.. and then I/M can have strong man contest against the girls from the other sites. Cause that's what your going to turn these kids into, a bunch of sissy's

your missing cp's point. He agrees freeweights are better, but if you don't have a car to go to a big gym.....and live walking distance from a small sissy gym, it's better to do the cables then do nothign.

people don't use cables because of laziness..........variety old man, variety. Get off the " I'm tough, so I only do freeweights" cliche , stop being so narrow minded.


Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Old Man
That's fucking lame. Let's just advocate the bowflex to everyone because there tired of using freeweights or just plain old lazy. Some cable exercises are fine. About the only one I find usefull is pulldowns if a person can't do pullups. But that about it. The day i get sick of using freeweights and have to switch over because of pure laziness, is the day I stop completely. If your gym doesn't have enough freeweights, change gyms. Hell for $1000 a person can have a home gym and get absolutely hugh. But if he spends that $1000 on a bunch iof cables, then his size is going nowhere quick.

You keep thinking like the above and everyone here can switch to the bowflex.. and then I/M can have strong man contest against the girls from the other sites. Cause that's what your going to turn these kids into, a bunch of sissy's
Remember TOM, we're talking about a 15 year old kid here. I don't think he has the money to afford a freeweight setup, and he said that he moved into an apartment if I'm not mistaken, so this limits his ability to get a good freeweight setup going in the first place. He can't drive, so his gym selection is probably very limited.

You are looking at this in a black/white context. I agree freeweights are superior, but sometimes you have to make compromises. Honestly, I would love to see him use various bodyweight exercises in his program as opposed to machines. I think bodyweight exercises are highly underrated, but there are plenty of ways to perform challenging variations of bodyweight movements. Nonetheless, I think the usage of cable machines will help him keep things interesting with his workouts.


Posted by: Tough Old Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
Remember TOM, we're talking about a 15 year old kid here. I don't think he has the money to afford a freeweight setup, and he said that he moved into an apartment if I'm not mistaken, so this limits his ability to get a good freeweight setup going in the first place. He can't drive, so his gym selection is probably very limited.

You are looking at this in a black/white context. I agree freeweights are superior, but sometimes you have to make compromises. Honestly, I would love to see him use various bodyweight exercises in his program as opposed to machines. I think bodyweight exercises are highly underrated, but there are plenty of ways to perform challenging variations of bodyweight movements. Nonetheless, I think the usage of cable machines will help him keep things interesting with his workouts.
Look I back off here. My post was originally posted to that 15 yr old that told the original posted that cables are better then freeweights. Then this little fucker sends me a PM telling me that I'm old and that he is 15 and has a lot of experience with weightlifting and that he knows for a fact that cables are better. Will here's my response to that. I have cables but very seldom use them. I just finished with my workout. It consisted of bench 5 x 5's, Squats 5 x 5, heavy bent rows (back parallel to floor) 5 x 5 and weighted dips 3 x 8. Now you think I'm going to have some 15 yr old lad tell me that using cables would have been better. I'm not missing anything here guys. This was directed at that little peep sqeak 15 yr old 7. Golden M 07. If the rest of you don't like what i have to say to him, I don't give a good fuck. CP you know I consider you a friend, but you happen to jump between Golden and I and that set me off. Sorry brother. Golden kiss my ass.

Now as for a home gym. Back in the 70's all I had was about 600 lbs of freeweights, a bench, Ez curls bar. About what $500 right now. Lets see what could I do with that.

Squats
Deadlifts
Bench
Military presses
Skulls
Curls.

If one of you don't think you can't get hugh using just that, then you have totally lost that art of getting hugh~!


Posted by: Tough Old Man

Posters original question.....

Does it make a big difference compared to Freeweights.

The reason I ask is because the gym available to me has 1 universal weight machine. (Levers for pushing movements, and Cables for pulling movements)

I will only be using the machine for pulling movements (Wide Grip Cable Row, Lat-Pulldowns, And V-Bar Lat Pulldowns to my lower chest while leaning back)

And then for pushing movements I will use my bench and bar (Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Military Press)

And for Legs I will be doing Deep Deadlifts, and SLDL

I been using only freeweights for all of my training (about 20 months)

Well Cp does it? Golden m response. Cables are better. Well CP are they? The poster is not saying he doesn't have a car or the money for another gym membership. He wants to know if there's a big difference between freeweights and Cables/machines. Well Cow we both know there is. If your looking for strength and mass, nothing beats a lot of good food, cardio and freeweights.


Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Old Man
Well Cp does it? Golden m response. Cables are better. Well CP are they? The poster is not saying he doesn't have a car or the money for another gym membership. He wants to know if there's a big difference between freeweights and Cables/machines. Well Cow we both know there is. If your looking for strength and mass, nothing beats a lot of good food, cardio and freeweights.
TOM, I happen to know from other posts the original poster made that he is moving to an apartment and I know he can't drive because he's 15. He didn't say it here, but I know it. What he did say was that a universal machine is all he had access to, he just didn't explain why.

Again, I believe freeweights are better. Everyone knows I do, that's primarily what I use. Reread my responses carefully and you'll notice I say this, but understand when there are limits on available equipment.


Posted by: Tough Old Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp
TOM, I happen to know from other posts the original poster made that he is moving to an apartment and I know he can't drive because he's 15. He didn't say it here, but I know it. What he did say was that a universal machine is all he had access to, he just didn't explain why.

Again, I believe freeweights are better. Everyone knows I do, that's primarily what I use. Reread my responses carefully and you'll notice I say this, but understand when there are limits on available equipment.
Ok got you bro. I wasn't aware of the above.



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