10x10 Training [Forum Archive]

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10x10 Training

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Posted by: Pedigree

Curious to know if anyone at IM has tried GVT or any variations of high volume training and their experiences with it...good, bad? I'm not sure if my body could handle the full blown GVT program anymore, but what if only one exercise was performed 4 days per week?

All reps and sets would be 10x10.

Monday: Squats

Tuesday: Pull (rows)

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Deadlifts

Friday: Off

Saturday: Push (flat bench, incline bench, or overhead press)

Sunday: Off

I've heard first hand from people who have done high volume training training for 3-4 week stretches have experienced some serious hypertrophy.
Thoughts and opinions please.

Posted by: Mudge

Not a very dynamic program is it.

Posted by: Pedigree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Not a very dynamic program is it.

No, not really! I was just reading more stuff on GVT and just thought that if somebody was short on time or just wanted to grow their largest muscle groups, they could utilize a short stint of high volume stuff in a simple program like that.

Posted by: CowPimp

I think it could work if your goal is hypertrophy. You could probably throw in a little accessory work on top of that too, but goddamn that would suck the day after 10x10 squats. I've never tried it though, so I'm really just talking out of my ass.

Posted by: Matt1973

I have met one person who did this routine. He would be on it for 3 weeks then off for 2. He did it for about 7 months and it gave him huge gains. Not sure what his diet or supplement intake was like but for him it seemed to work quite well.

Posted by: Pedigree

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

that would suck the day after 10x10 squats.

I agree 100%.

Posted by: TJ Cline

I did it a long long time ago.....up to set seven I was doing fine by nine I was dead.

Posted by: Pedigree

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I did it a long long time ago.....up to set seven I was doing fine by nine I was dead.

Any size gains to speak of Foreman?

Posted by: LoadedBats

I also tried it about a year ago. The weight is kinda light, at first you don't feel like it's doing anything....till about set 6 on it starts to really beat hurt.

I did it for about 3 weeks, took a week off, then did a modified version which took two exercises for the same muscle group and alternated them. so i ended up doing 5x10 for each exercise, 10x10 for the whole group. Example
Incline barbell press/Chest Dips - 10x10
T-bar rows/pull ups
squats/hacks or legpress or whatever.....you get the point. It seemed to add size pretty well, though my strength didn't seem to improve much.

Posted by: Schez

I tried it and got some good results, man it was tough though. I was lifting these pissy weights but by about the 6th set I was dead! I definitely gained a lot of muscle though but it's not something I'd recommend long-term.

Posted by: Pedigree

The reason I'm posting this is because I'm getting ready to run the Bill Starr again as soon as my softball season is done. I want to put on some size ahead of The Starr to see how it affects my strength gains. The previous two times I've run the program, I didn't come off a hypertrophy-focused program, so I'm curious to see if my strength will be better, worse, or the same.
Good info so far - please keep it coming!

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree

Any size gains to speak of Foreman?

Didn't see anything amazing about it, just a nice change of pace.

Posted by: Pedigree

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Didn't see anything amazing about it, just a nice change of pace.

NICE? 100 reps of squats sounds like freakin' torture!

I think I'll try it in about 4 weeks.

Posted by: SuperFlex

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree

Curious to know if anyone at IM has tried GVT or any variations of high volume training and their experiences with it...good, bad? I'm not sure if my body could handle the full blown GVT program anymore, but what if only one exercise was performed 4 days per week?

All reps and sets would be 10x10.

Monday: Squats

Tuesday: Pull (rows)

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Deadlifts

Friday: Off

Saturday: Push (flat bench, incline bench, or overhead press)

Sunday: Off

I've heard first hand from people who have done high volume training training for 3-4 week stretches have experienced some serious hypertrophy.
Thoughts and opinions please.

I've done it for squats, but nothing else. The program I was on suggested doing this type of training for only one bodypart at a time! It was pretty tough by the 6th set. 1-5 are a piece of cake. Not sure how your set-up is but here's what I did. First of all you use the same weight for all 10 sets. By the 10th set ideally you'll reach failure on the 10th rep. It takes a couple workouts to find the right weight, but you probably have a good idea. Once you're able to do 10 sets of 10 then increase the weight by 10lbs. for the next workout. It's a great workout for size, endurance, and strength. My biggest gains were in strength and they came every workout...

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree

NICE? 100 reps of squats sounds like freakin' torture!

I think I'll try it in about 4 weeks.

Back then I was doing 3-4 sets, so when I changed it to 10 sets I had to drop my workout weight ..think at the time I was doing 275 for 3 sets of 10, so when I changed to 10 sets we used 225......it was eazy till set 7 or 8, then it became hell.

Posted by: SuperFlex

I didn't read through this first, but I see set 6 is when others started feeling it as well.

Foreman is right as well. By 9 you're just wishing it was over... After a few workouts though I really enjoyed it. My training partner couldn't handle it however. A few times he felt pretty bad before we were even finished. Wuss...

Posted by: natural1

I have tried this on squats and bench press

The squats seemed to work realy well, ive been aching for 2 days after words and dread the site of stairs. This may have somthing to do with only training the legs seriously for about 4 month, but even then it does seem like they are extra burnt!! i do train them pretty intensly on a normal day. I finishished of with some steady hack squats and extenders

The bench press was realy diffecult at the time but the morning after and no real aches and pains to shout about. I couldnt even finish my last 3 reps of the last set with help so i defo repped out. Finished of with some dumbell flies and a bit of cable work

Going to try rower today but not exspecting too much, would just stick to using 10x10 for squats every now and agian imo

Posted by: Phineas

I'm currently using a volume program that I wrote myself. I didn't like the GVT 10 x 10 training concepts, so I took principles from several training styles and put together my own volume program tailored to me.

I've had by the far the best gains out of all programs I've done, not just hypertrophy but strength has shot through the roof. I make 2-4 PRs a session, with 4 sessions a week. All my major lifts have gone up 15-25 lbs so far (since July 1), and secondary lifts have also all increase. It's all compounds, I train each plane of motion equally, and it's based on push/pull.

I have so many good things to say about volume training. However, the major con is it takes the most god damn brutal toll on your body. The only reason I'm not only able to see such great results on this program but even just do the program is because I have my diet down to a tee. I'm also doing very high-intensity cardio with running, as I'm training for a half marathon. Surprisingly, all the running helps me heal faster.

Posted by: PushAndPull

I've done 10x10 in the past for some movements, but didn't like it for anything but the squats.

Posted by: gtbmed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

I'm currently using a volume program that I wrote myself. I didn't like the GVT 10 x 10 training concepts, so I took principles from several training styles and put together my own volume program tailored to me.

I've had by the far the best gains out of all programs I've done, not just hypertrophy but strength has shot through the roof. I make 2-4 PRs a session, with 4 sessions a week. All my major lifts have gone up 15-25 lbs so far (since July 1), and secondary lifts have also all increase. It's all compounds, I train each plane of motion equally, and it's based on push/pull.

I have so many good things to say about volume training. However, the major con is it takes the most god damn brutal toll on your body. The only reason I'm not only able to see such great results on this program but even just do the program is because I have my diet down to a tee. I'm also doing very high-intensity cardio with running, as I'm training for a half marathon. Surprisingly, all the running helps me heal faster.

What's your current program like?

Posted by: LAM

with 10x10 your are training the CNS more than the muscles in terms of strength. this type of training is not useful to all athletes but could provide a needed change of pace for some.

Posted by: PushAndPull

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

with 10x10 your are training the CNS more than the muscles in terms of strength. this type of training is not useful to all athletes but could provide a needed change of pace for some.

Depends on what you mean by muscles. If you're talking primary then I agree, but high volume training has always strengthened my secondary muscles of the lift. 10x10 squats will definietly help strengthen you glutes and lower back,. High volume deads will strengthen your grip and glutes. High volume pull-ups will strengthen your arms (excluding tris), abs, and rear delts. I could go on. To say there isn't strength gains from doing high volume routines is incorrect.

Posted by: ahmster

I love the 10x10 workout, but only for legs. My upper body grows easily with just a few sets, but my legs nevcer responded to anything I tried. I would squat with over 405lbs every week, but barely any results. I then tried this routine with very little weight and am completely amazed. Squats are pretty much impossible so I only do that once a month. I mostly stick to Leg Presses and Hack Squats. The key is the 60 seconds of rest between sets. Use a stop watch. Your legs blow up and you are huffing and puffing and sweating like a maniac by set 5. By set 10 you are completely drained so do it as the last exercise of your workout that day.

I start with Poliquin's calf routine of Seated Calf Raise (10,5,5) supersetted with Hammer Donkey Raises (30,30,30), 2minutes rest, and then onto Standing Calf Raises for 10x10 with 15 seconds rest. Then some leg curls and then the 10x10 for the chosen exercise of the week. I do the routine once a week and my legs have gone from pathetic to huge. I am extremely happy with the results and recommned it to everyone. It is pure bodybuilding so you won't get much strength gains from it, but I really haven't lost any strength when I do try a heavy set once in a while.

Posted by: Flathead

That has to be one of the craziest workout routines I've ever seen. A 100* each on my core lifts would put me in my death bed.

But as mentioned above, anything is better than sitting on the couch.

Posted by: LAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

in terms of increasing maximum strength in the 1RM it is not optimum for that. you need to use loads in excess 85% of the 1RM for that.

Posted by: Gazhole

I hate this style of excessive volume. Volume is great, but i think 10x10 can be a fast road to overtraining and injury.

If i did a program with this sort of rep range i would literally only do 3 exercises max per session. Either:

Exercise 1 - 10x10
Accessory 1 - 3x10
Accessory 2 - 3x10

Or

Exercise 1 - 10x10
Exercise 2 - 10x10

But thats about it. Thankfully a lot of extreme volume programs worth their salt take this into account and limit the exercise selection, and sometimes use lots of rest days.

Posted by: gtbmed

Maybe this is a good way to gain mass, but it seems like an extremely unfunctional way to train. Lifting a weight 10x10 doesn't seem like it would be good for gains in strength.

Posted by: Gazhole

No, i agree with that totally.

So difficult to increase 10RM strength, simply because theres a lot more things going on from reps 6-10 than there were in reps 1-5, and even less to mess up in reps 1-3.

Posted by: PushAndPull

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

in terms of increasing maximum strength in the 1RM it is not optimum for that. you need to use loads in excess 85% of the 1RM for that.

Only to a certian degree is that true. Continued progress on 1RM is dependent on your secondary muscles as well as your primary. In any lift the involvement of your secondary and primary muscles vary. If the secondary muscle(s) are not up to snuff at the point of it's greatest involvement your lift fails. When this happens you have to strengthen that/those secondary muscles while still maintaining your strength in the primary. I've found high volume routines work perfect for this. Your primary muscle will lose little, if anything from the high volume, while your secondaries gain strength. Leaving you in perfect position to break through your old plateaus.

Posted by: Phineas

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtbmed

What's your current program like?

Tuesday: Lower Push/Calves

(1.) Back Squats: 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM w/ 2-3 min RI
(2.) *instinct calf training
(3.) BB Split Squats: 4 x 8 @ 10-12 RM w/ 1.5 min RI
(4.) *instinct calf training
(5.) Lumberjack Squats: 3 x 15 @ 20 RM w/ 1 min RI
(6.) Seated Calf Raise: 6 x 12 @ 12 RM w/ 30 second RI

Wednesday or Thursday: Upper Horizontal Push/Vertical Pull

(1.) Dead Press: 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM w/ 2-3 min RI
(2.) Pullups: 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM w/ 2-3 min RI
(3.) Bar Dips: 4 x 8 @ 10-12 RM w/ 1.5 min RI
(4.) Close-Grip V-Bar Chinups: 4 x 8 @ 10-12 RM w/ 1.5 min RI
(5.) Incline DB Chest Press: 3 x 15 @ 20 RM w/ 1 min RI
(6.) Close-Grip V-Bar Lat Pulldowns: 3 x 15 @ 20 RM w/ 1 min RI

Friday or Saturday: Lower Pull/Calves

(1.) Deadlifts: 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM w/ 2-3 min RI
(2.) *instinct calf training
(3.) Good Mornings: 4 x 8 @ 10-12 RM w/ 1.5 min RI
(4.) *instinct calf training
(5.) Sumo Deadlifts: 3 x 15 @ 20 RM w/ 1 min RI
(6.) Seated Calf Raise: 6 x 12 @ 12 RM w/ 30 second RI

Sunday: Upper Vertical Push/Horizontal Pull

(1.) Hang Cleans*: 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM w/ 2-3 min RI
(2.) BB Bent-Over Rows: 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM w/ 2-3 min RI
(3.) BB Shoulder Press: 4 x 8 @ 10-12 RM w/ 1.5 min RI
(4.) DB Unilateral Bench Rows: 4 x 8 @ 10-12 RM w/ 1.5 min RI
(5.) DB Military Press: 3 x 15 @ 20 RM w/ 1 min RI
(6.) Close-Grip (w/ V-Bar) BB Rows: 3 x 15 @ 20 RM w/ 1 min RI

*Hang Cleans used as vertical push for shoulder development

-1 cycle is 3 weeks, so each session is performed 3 times
-each 3 week cycle culminates with one week deloading
-repeat for (haven't decided yet) 4 to 6 cycles
-as I'm training for a half marathon, I also run 4 times a week at distances of 3.5-8km
-I also do an ab/torso accessory workout once a week at the end of a workout, which is random ab/oblique/lower back/serratus anterior exercises, but it always begins with and centres around weighted planks
-I also do another post-workout session of weighted planks

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