Need a good mass cycle? [Forum Archive]

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Need a good mass cycle?

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Posted by: SSJWILDFIRE7

Hey all. I'm looking for a good cycle, where I can put on some decent mass and still try to keep my bodyfat around 8-10%. My current schedule looks like this: M = Chest, T = Back, W = Legs, Th = Arms, F = Shoulders. I do cardio(stepper) for 30-45 mins everyday except sunday and leg day. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Stats:
Hgt: 5'5
Wgt: 173.2 lbs
Bench: 270 x 6 reps
Squat: 405 x 5 reps (ass to the ground)
Hack Squat : 800 x 6 reps
Training: 5 years seriously, 7 years total.(i.e. 3 MWF for two years.)

Posted by: BigPapaPump68

173 is kind of light but you are also pretty short. Do you have any cycle experience?

Posted by: TJ Cline

Fix the workout first then you can cycle.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=60738

Posted by: Pirate!

Have you used any steroids before?

Posted by: TJ Cline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!

Have you used any steroids before?

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=49090

Posted by: 19-chief

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJWILDFIRE7

Hey all. I'm looking for a good cycle, where I can put on some decent mass and still try to keep my bodyfat around 8-10%. My current schedule looks like this: M = Chest, T = Back, W = Legs, Th = Arms, F = Shoulders. I do cardio(stepper) for 30-45 mins everyday except sunday and leg day. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Stats:
Hgt: 5'5
Wgt: 173.2 lbs
Bench: 270 x 6 reps
Squat: 405 x 5 reps (ass to the ground)
Hack Squat : 800 x 6 reps
Training: 5 years seriously, 7 years total.(i.e. 3 MWF for two years.)

looks like you messed with them before... just run some testosterone for 6-12 weeks. t-prop at 100-150mg eod for 6-8 weeks or some t-enan at 200-300mg e3.5d for 8-12 weeks. have ai's on hand. run proper pct... nolva at 40/40/20/20. if you do that much cardio regularly, you are going to have to figure out how to maintain a positive caloric intake to grow. (less calorie burning or consuming more calories.)

Posted by: SSJWILDFIRE7

Thanks for all the info and yes I have used before I cycled sust (10wks/ew) with dbol (5mg/ed & and increased 5mg until wk4 and then started to decline until i was back to 5 on wk 8) and then as my pct I used nolved the 60/40/20 and HCG. I had a contest that i leaned down for but do to lack of participation( i.e. a good # other contestants in the show.) , I decided not to do it. It was only about 5 people who were going to participate since ther was a bigger event going on across town. I perfer to judge myself against the best that is there and if they are not there then it's not worth it.So thankfully the cardio is now back to once or twice a wk for 45 mins and my diet is back up to 4-5000 calories a day, with 2g of protien per lb of body weight. I'm eating 5-6 tiems ad day and two of those being protien shakes and I also have a shake with three different kinds of protein before bed so I do not get catabloic whkle I sleep. And as for my traing I don't see what's wrong with it. With my chest and back at the begining of the week and my arms and shoulders after legs I give my upper body a days rest and then two on the weekend. Right now I'm messing around with MIke Mentzer's H.I.T training and can't really tell what my gains are or gaining to be since I have only been on it for two weeks. But the increase in intensithy and energy is noticable. I have also done Dante's Doggcrapp training and I liked it but do to lack of a lifting partner sometimes it is hard to go all out with-out a spot being readily available. So my cycle question is this: I have heard good things concerning tren and I knwo I will definitely be using that but in your opinion's what would eb the best to cycle with it and what oral I heard that if you can get Anavar it's worth the money as an oral and I will be doing HCG and Nolva 60/40/20 as my pct. Sorry the late reply I work twelve hour shifts at my one job and go to school the rest of the time.

Age: 24

Cycle Exp: Yes, sust 250 and dbol

Training: MWF H.I.T.
M = 2 sets chest pre-exhasust/compound superstet with back 2 sets same deal.
W = Legs Squats and leg extensoin superset then either hack squats or leg press and abs.
F= Arms and Shoulders - Dumbell curls supered with rope pushdowns, barbel curls on the preacher supered with skulls, arnold presses supere3d with lat raises, running the rack on rear delt raises

Diet: 5-6 times a day 1st meal = Protein shake 40g prtn, 6 eggs with shredded chedder and a slice of wheat bread and a 8 oz glass of orange juice. 2nd = packet of tuna and nuts 3rd = usually subway club on wheat with olives and italian or a chickenbreats sub on wheat with provlone and sweet onion dressing 4th= packet of tuna or protien bar "Big 100". After workout shake = 40g prtn. 5th = steak/2 chicken breats/fish with a baked potato or steamed rice and a salad with low fat italian. Before Bed shake: 62g protein: Micellular matrix two scoops 36 grams of protein

Yr's working out: 5 seriously.(7 total.)

Posted by: dg806

Even though you have trained for a decent number of years, your age is still young. At your weight I think you could benefit from a few more natural yrs of training before taking anything.

Posted by: Trouble

"So thankfully the cardio is now back to once or twice a wk for 45 mins "

Sorry, sir, but you are clueless on the benefits of daily cardio conditioning. It need not be intensive, but it must be near-daily, for glucose tolerance control.

You are also too young to be using gear.

"Sorry the late reply I work twelve hour shifts at my one job and go to school the rest of the time. "

Sleep is likely to suffer, and for that, you will have glucose tolerance problems.

Not a good condition under which to use gear. Thats two reasons why you should wait..

The third is your idea of diet. You have a lot to learn about what constitutes health mass gains through diet and training.

You have barely touched on training methods. The high volume training approaches you've sampled aren't optimal for most folks - too harsh on the CNS (invites overtraining in the underconditioned = that would be you).

Go read up on sled workouts, and GPP. Read up on macro- and micronutrient timing and TCD (sorry, but your idea of diet sucks ass), and spend some time in our training and journal sections, learning about different training styles. You need to feature large compound movements, and leave off reliance on the accessory muscle isolation movements..they're dessert, not the main course.

Then come back in a few years, when you're more knowledgable, and ask us again about cycles and your readiness. At this point, you haven't damaged yourself too much with your diet and training naivity. Continue on this path of gear use, and I can guarantee you problems down the road maintaining mass and dealing with longterm sides.

Posted by: pengers84

So trouble, when you say cardio need not be intensive but near daily for glucose tolerance control, would walking or jogging to the gym (which is about 2km) 3 times a week + tennis 2hrs a week be adequate when I'm bulking?

Posted by: Trouble

I absolutely recommend walking daily, six out of seven days. IronAddict and I encourage our clients to walk 20-30 min twice daily when possible, otherwise, he uses sled pulling for cardio conditioning and I have my guys using weighted backpacks for the same purpose (I also have them switch off to sled pulling as well).

The benefits:

- improves sleep quality and energy levels during the day
- faster and more thorough recovery between workouts
- reduces chance of overtraining
- improves appetite and digestion and waste elimination efficiency
- reduced nightime and afternoon cortisol lags
- positive mood, focus and concentration, sharpens memory, less depression
- reduces social isolation and counteracts social deficit disorders
- improves body image and general self acceptance
- regulates breathing, counters stress-related breath holding and hypoxia
- reduces infection susceptibility, improves wound and soft tissue healing
- improves flexibility and joint stability (when correct posture is present)
- reduces seasonal allergies, SAD and ADD
- provides for better bone density, vitamin D synthesis and bone repair
- stabilizes blood glucose, insulin sensivitity, fluid and bodyfat levels

Thats more return on your time spent, than you would receive as additional health and performance benefits in comparable expenditure on supplements OR gear.

(Sorry, I owe you a reply to your post in health. Its going to be a long one. :-)

Posted by: pengers84

Cool, im definately going to start walking to the gym then.

(Sorry, I owe you a reply to your post in health. Its going to be a long one. :-)[/quote]

haha Thats cool, look fwd to reading it.

cheers, penguin.

Posted by: Gazhole

Walking for 30 mins seriously does all that?

Fucking-A.

Im gonna start this later on! Any optimal times of day? Before or after workout? Or doesnt it really matter that much at all?

Posted by: Trouble

I advocate walking first thing in the morning (after eating a light meal of protein and healthy fats, maybe a little carbs). And then again, in the evening.

For the higher bodyfat mass folks (> 12-15%) , it can trim off many pounds of excess fatmass in a year, all other factors held constant.

Posted by: Gazhole

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

I advocate walking first thing in the morning (after eating a light meal of protein and healthy fats, maybe a little carbs). And then again, in the evening.

For the higher bodyfat mass folks (> 12-15%) , it can trim off many pounds of excess fatmass in a year, all other factors held constant.

Awesome. Time to get me some walking music.

Cheers, Trouble.

Posted by: Trouble

Good thing you got your thinking cap on, Gaz! I plumb forgot to mention it...

Using motivating, but not a beat faster than your intermediate walking speed, can help put your brain into a focused but relaxed state.

Read this to learn about brainwave states.

Too slow a beat, and its sedating (delta and theta types). Too fast, and its primarily beta beats. Too excitatory for our needs.

The alpha brainwave state is the desired goal for this activity... And it and the beta brainwave state, are the alternating states you want in the gym.

Most of us can easily muster the beta state...you can induce it with CNS stimulants. Downside in using the stimulants, is that they also exact a heavy toll in oxidative stress damage because you don't *oscillate* off of that excited state, for the duration of the period of drug action.

In the self induced state in the gym, you can switch back and forth, to ease CNS negative effects of brief periods of intense exertion. In fact, if you have ever felt like you were in a trance state in the gym or while relaxing to good music, your brain was functioning primarily in the alpha state.

Now hear this: alpha brain wave states induce hGH release, and from that, IGF-1. It also co-induces NGF (nerve growth) and other peptides, ones that control hunger, immune and connective, bone and blood supply and repair functions to muscle and muscle support matrix.

In other words, this is the mind-muscle connection state you want. If you do this, you will considerably enhance the benefits of both regular walking and resistance training.

Train your brain. Do it while walking. It makes it much easier to slip into this focused but not-CNS-taxing state, and also to alternate it with that more excited (high intensity exertion ready state) - the beta state - when necessary in the gym. This is a simple, clever trick to spare your CNS excess damage, and avoid overtraining from high intensity workouts.

Interestingly enough, if you go to Frank Zanes website, you will see that he happened on this same notion, and uses a audio-visual feedback system to elict the same brain training.

Ours is a better approach. Why? There's the oxygen angle. Hypoxia, a common state in those with chronic stress, induces the expression of a gene that causes breath holding, unconsciously.

During the day, it manifests as shallow, interrupted breathing. Same at night, but more prominent in its negative impact..you have this lowered heart rate, and it tends to stop the heart, momentarily. Its called sleep apnea.

See, there is actually a gene for this breath holding habit! And, its turned ON by a lack of GABA from too much time spent in the beta state. You make and release GABA and taurine, in the alpha state. You make and release glutamate and acetylcholine, in the excited state in the brain and body CNS.

Not good chemical karma, to have too much excitement, and not enough calm - causes aging and rapid cellular damage to the CNS. Negates the positive effects of training (its overtraining).

Thanks, Gaz! This notion of alpha brainwave chemistry is really the driver behind those benefits I mentioned...

If you haven't cottoned on yet, this whole thread is fricking GOLD. Very advanced, yet simple notions to grasp.

This is using your head outside, as well as while in the gym, to optimize human performance.

Posted by: Gazhole

I guess im a genius without realising it :P.

Heavy metal music always 'wakes' me up. I guess ive just trained my brain to do that. I listen to the same sort of music when i workout to when i do cardio, to when i walk anywhere.

Whenever im moving im pretty much always listening to music.

Posted by: Trouble

Yes sir, listening to music is generally good...

But if you only listen to metal that puts your in the highly mentally stimulated state, you are burning up your brain's ability to counter stress.

You are *inducing a stressfuls state* in the CNS. Not only in the brain, but in the body...in the gut, the stomach, the kidneys and the lungs.

Feed your brain, but do it meaningfully. There are some heavy metal tracks that induce the alpha state. I didn't realize it until quite recently. Be choosey. If you feel your heartbeat pick up quite a bit, along with your breathing, while standing still, its excitatory, Gaz.

Its also addictive. Thats the problem, you see... Its causes shutdown of anabolic conditions - growth hormone, NGF and IGF-1 release.

Oops.

Posted by: Gazhole

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Yes sir, listening to music is generally good...

But if you only listen to metal that puts your in the highly mentally stimulated state, you are burning up your brain's ability to counter stress.

You are *inducing a stressfuls state* in the CNS. Not only in the brain, but in the body...in the gut, the stomach, the kidneys and the lungs.

Feed your brain, but do it meaningfully. There are some heavy metal tracks that induce the alpha state. I didn't realize it until quite recently. Be choosey. If you feel your heartbeat pick up quite a bit, along with your breathing, while standing still, its excitatory, Gaz.

Its also addictive. Thats the problem, you see... Its causes shutdown of anabolic conditions - growth hormone, NGF and IGF-1 release.

Oops.

How come i can go to sleep with it on? Thats one thing thats always confused me.

I dont listen to metal exclusively, though it is a large part of it. I listen to some Trance (very psychadelic...) prog, general rock, blues, and Colin Hay when i really want to chill.

Im usually pretty awesome when it comes to dealing with stress though. People in work get stressed to hell, sometimes in the same situations as me, and im perfectly fine. It takes an extortionate amount of bother to get me feeling panicked or helpless.

I do appreciate the importance of brain activity on physiological changes though. Its an amazing organ, but so many purely mental problems manifest themselves physically in people that its pretty tough to ignore.

What would you reccomend to help out? Stop me un-wittingly under-mining my mental state when training etc?

Music being addictive is something i wholly agree with though :P.

Posted by: Trouble

Too trance-y, and it puts you to sleep because your brain becomes synchronized to the slow beat (or beatless) music.

Too frantic, and it speeds you up for long periods of time. Thats exhausting precious CNS anti-excitatory chemical reserves.

You know when you hear music that makes you feel slightly energized, but not stressed. Use that music throughout your listening time, to keep you in the most growth promoting state. Use the trancey type, for deep relaxation. You can fall asleep to it, but its best to use it while awake.

The exergizing music that mimics the use of uppers (stimulants).. Use it sparingly, when you need a lift, for short periods (25 min or less). I use it during HITT aerobics, to get me motivated to grind thru a hard cardio workout. I never use it for relaxing.

"but so many purely mental problems manifest themselves physically in people that its pretty tough to ignore."

There is only mental electrical activity that is translated to chemical response in the same tissue or elsewhere. Its all physical/chemical in the end. There is no higher orbit of purely mental anything in the body.

Posted by: Gazhole

Its interesting stuff. Complicated, but still!

Now that you mention it, i do have good workouts when listening to AC/DC and things like that. Energetic but doesnt want to make me headbang my neck into a pulp.

Even though in a workout im not really concentrating on the music too much, from what youve said it still has a pretty profound effect on what happens during that workout.

I love how the brain works.

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