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T-Bar Rows...?

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Posted by: Platinum

Do you guys reckon T-bar rows are an essential part of a beginner/intermediate back routine to beef up the traps and the middle of the back or will rows and pulldowns and chins as well as deads suffice for a complete back routine?



Posted by: mike456

no T_BAr rows are definitly not needed in any routine, but you do need some type of row and some type of pull-up/pull-down, and for the erectors- deads



Posted by: Richie1888

i use t bar rows as part of my back routine if that helps

just make sure u do it with a full range of movement to get the full bennifit form the exercise. even if that means dropping down the wait

hope that helps mate



Posted by: Platinum

Thanks champ



Posted by: CowPimp

No one movement is essential, but I think t-bar rows are decent as far as machines go.



Posted by: AKIRA

I love them! I cant get enough of them!

BUT.

My current problem, a big problem is the fucking bar itself.

I use the wide handles (the horizontal bar of a "T"), but my full ROM is screwed cuz of the two neutral handles! They hit my thighs. Sure I can step back some, but my back doesnt like this, plus I dont get the same satisfying feeling from when I am closer.

I knwo theres a way around this as I have managed to get full ROM reps when I step closer, but its one of those movements where I forget where to put my feet, how much I should bend, etc, just to get shit situated.

In other words, i have dropped T-bars sadly.



Posted by: Pedigree

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowPimp View Post
No one movement is essential, but I think t-bar rows are decent as far as machines go.
I throw the end of the olympic bar in the corner of my weightroom and load up the other end. No machines for me.
I love t-bar rows.



Posted by: ihateschoolmt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree View Post
I throw the end of the olympic bar in the corner of my weightroom and load up the other end. No machines for me.
I love t-bar rows.
That's what I do too.



Posted by: wilwn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree View Post
I throw the end of the olympic bar in the corner of my weightroom and load up the other end. No machines for me.
I love t-bar rows.
hardly any different from a "machine" t-bar row. it's still a somewhat restrict motion compared to a pure freeweight exercise such as bent rows.



Posted by: mike456

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree View Post
I throw the end of the olympic bar in the corner of my weightroom and load up the other end. No machines for me.
I love t-bar rows.
when you think about it thats like killing the purpose of freeweights, its jammed in the corner, so you don't have to stabilize, just do BB Bent-over Rows, One of the hardest exercises!



Posted by: AKIRA

Plus it puts holes in the wall after frequent heavy use. Golds wont allow it anymore.



Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike456 View Post
when you think about it thats like killing the purpose of freeweights, its jammed in the corner, so you don't have to stabilize, just do BB Bent-over Rows, One of the hardest exercises!
...no it doesn't...It's not on a fixed plane. And you hold the same isometric contraction as when doing bent rows, provided you don't lean back and stand up with it...

. I do the ghetto T-bar rows at my studio because we don't have dumbells heavy enough for me to do DB rows and even the cable stack is too light come time to do sets of higher intensity...



Posted by: LoadedBats

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike456 View Post
when you think about it thats like killing the purpose of freeweights, its jammed in the corner, so you don't have to stabilize, just do BB Bent-over Rows, One of the hardest exercises!
I think the barbell Row is overrated. i'll save my explanation and just copy and paste this from a Q & A column with CHarles Poliquin. Whom i agree with on this subject.

Q: In both your "Poliquin Principles" book and the Top Seven Upper Back Exercises article, you hardly mention barbell rows. Sure, most guys don't perform the movement correctly. But is that a reason to ignore a great exercise? Could you provide a quick primer in barbell rows just in case we get bored of chin-ups?

A: The reason that I didn't mention barbell rows is simply because I don't believe that they're a great upper back exercise, even when performed correctly. Why? Because there's too much neural drive expended in firing the muscles involved in maintaining the postural aspect of the exercise. The body and mind are in high neural gear as they're firing the erector spinae, glutes, and hamstrings at the same time — so much so that the level of recruitment finally left over for the lats is too minimal to be worth it.

That's why I'd rather stick to variations of one-armed rowing exercises. I can hear the "functionalist cult" already arguing, "What about function? This a primary movement." My answer to that is, if you did a good job in the loading parameters for the squat and deadlifting exercises, why overtrain the posterior chain?




Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadedBats View Post
I think the barbell Row is overrated. i'll save my explanation and just copy and paste this from a Q & A column with CHarles Poliquin. Whom i agree with on this subject.

Q: In both your "Poliquin Principles" book and the Top Seven Upper Back Exercises article, you hardly mention barbell rows. Sure, most guys don't perform the movement correctly. But is that a reason to ignore a great exercise? Could you provide a quick primer in barbell rows just in case we get bored of chin-ups?

A: The reason that I didn't mention barbell rows is simply because I don't believe that they're a great upper back exercise, even when performed correctly. Why? Because there's too much neural drive expended in firing the muscles involved in maintaining the postural aspect of the exercise. The body and mind are in high neural gear as they're firing the erector spinae, glutes, and hamstrings at the same time — so much so that the level of recruitment finally left over for the lats is too minimal to be worth it.

That's why I'd rather stick to variations of one-armed rowing exercises. I can hear the "functionalist cult" already arguing, "What about function? This a primary movement." My answer to that is, if you did a good job in the loading parameters for the squat and deadlifting exercises, why overtrain the posterior chain?
Respectable answer, but you can still implement pretty high loads with a bent row. I understand where he's coming from. You don't want to do one legged bent over rows with a dumbbell in only one hard standing on an upside down bosu, but I still think the classic bent row is a good exercise. They work well enough that I'm typing this with sore traps from 4 sets of them yesterday, heh.



Posted by: viet_jon

I use to hate bb bent rows. Never really felt my lats.

I tried dropping the weight by 35%, and now they're one of my fav. exercises.



Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:
Originally Posted by viet_jon View Post
I use to hate bb bent rows. Never really felt my lats.

I tried dropping the weight by 35%, and now they're one of my fav. exercises.
I too love bent rows...they are a staple in my routine.

About that article...I could see that if the person had really strong lats and a relatively weak posterior chain. I for one, don't feel these...at....all...in my glutes/hams/erectors...

And if anything, I think the vast majority of lifters neglect the posterior chain in their programs.



Posted by: LoadedBats

I use them occasionally, but generally i use lighter weight, and really hammer the form. I prefer prone rows with a barbell or the lever t-bar style.


similar to this one.
Attachment 22987



Posted by: viet_jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadedBats View Post
I use them occasionally, but generally i use lighter weight, and really hammer the form. I prefer prone rows with a barbell or the lever t-bar style.

same here man. I use to arch my back like a mofo, and load up the plates. ITs really easy to cheat with these.



Posted by: wilwn

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWGriffin View Post
...no it doesn't...It's not on a fixed plane. And you hold the same isometric contraction as when doing bent rows, provided you don't lean back and stand up with it...

. I do the ghetto T-bar rows at my studio because we don't have dumbells heavy enough for me to do DB rows and even the cable stack is too light come time to do sets of higher intensity...
it may not be a fixed plane, but it is a fixed arc, assuming the fixed end doesn't move.



Posted by: Phred

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilwn View Post
it may not be a fixed plane, but it is a fixed arc, assuming the fixed end doesn't move.
If I am not mistaken, it is a fixed weight too. So what? It is still a good movement to include in your tool box of exercises.



Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilwn View Post
it may not be a fixed plane, but it is a fixed arc, assuming the fixed end doesn't move.
That is a good point. But I wouldn't group them with machines in terms of effectiveness and efficiency...heh...you should see my set up....I use the rope from the cable stack and jam one end of the bar into the corner of the power rack. So you could see how there is still an element of "control" in this lift for myself.



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by viet_jon View Post
I use to hate bb bent rows. Never really felt my lats.

I tried dropping the weight by 35%, and now they're one of my fav. exercises.
Definitely easy to cheat on these. I try to keep my form strict and focus on getting a good scapular retraction.



Posted by: AKIRA

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadedBats View Post
I use them occasionally, but generally i use lighter weight, and really hammer the form. I prefer prone rows with a barbell or the lever t-bar style.


similar to this one.
Attachment 22987

I thought that row was called a "spider row."



Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKIRA View Post
I thought that row was called a "spider row."
Spider rows are like that, except you use a double cable stack.



Posted by: juggernaut

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree View Post
I throw the end of the olympic bar in the corner of my weightroom and load up the other end. No machines for me.
I love t-bar rows.
you're cool.



Posted by: AKIRA

I guess no one else is aggravated when the neutral bars of the T-bar hit your thighs huh.



Posted by: Double D

Pullups, Deads, Bent over Rows......all you need. Of course incorporate different exercises like t-bar rows from time to time.



Posted by: camarosuper6

I love both T-Bar and Bent Barbell Rows. Great to incorporate in your workouts... but so are one armed movements.

Variation is a wonderful thing.








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