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article by Boyle on t-nation

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Posted by: P-funk

Boyle on T-nation

Posted by: CowPimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Boyle on T-nation

I had a feeling you would post this up. Good article overall. Boyle is a smart fella.

Posted by: fUnc17

Nice

Posted by: P-funk

that is crazy that his average athletes can perform pull ups with as much or more then their 1RM bench press!

Those 1-leg suqats off a box are bad ass.

Posted by: Gazhole

1-leg box squats!?

My brain just exploded, but in a good way!

Posted by: Dale Mabry

I like that he posted it at T-mag, some of the responses are hilarious.

I like doing both back and front squats. The spinal loading is something I want, studies have shown bone density in later years is highly correlated to bone density in earlier years, regardless of training level at the test. I do hate leg presses, though, and my gym has a belt squat machine so I may give that a try.

Dumbbell snatches rule.

I never really paid attention to my inverted rowing, I may have to peep it and see if I can do 10 touching my chest to the bar.

I think it kind of sucks that you end up being either a functional guy or a hardcore big three guy. I see no problem picking from either or, but it seems most can't or won't.

That chick did 3 pull-ups with a 45lbs plate, that shit is crazy.

Posted by: Witchblade

1 leg box squats look a lot like pistols. Those are really, really badass for sure.

Good article. I still think he went a bit overboard though. Backsquatting and deadlifting shouldn't be avoided. You might not need them in every program, but I'd incorporate them (with perfect form!) in at least one or two programs per year.

Agreed on the leg press though, always thought those were knee killers.

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

1 leg box squats look a lot like pistols. Those are really, really badass for sure.

Yeah, they are great for people who lack the hip flexor strength or ham/glute flexibility in the non-stance leg to do them properly

Good article. I still think he went a bit overboard though. Backsquatting and deadlifting shouldn't be avoided. You might not need them in every program, but I'd incorporate them (with perfect form!) in at least one or two programs per year.

I concur, I think most of the dudes on T-mag do them heavy, year-round, though.

Agreed on the leg press though, always thought those were knee killers.

Posted by: fufu

Cool stuff. I love my back squats though, I love front squats too. I actually just decided to stop deadlifting for a while.

I thought it was funny when he mentioned the part about individuals should be able to DB row 80% what you can DB bench, because my DB bench is pretty sad compared to my rowing.

Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I like that he posted it at T-mag, some of the responses are hilarious.

I like doing both back and front squats. The spinal loading is something I want, studies have shown bone density in later years is highly correlated to bone density in earlier years, regardless of training level at the test. I do hate leg presses, though, and my gym has a belt squat machine so I may give that a try.

Dumbbell snatches rule.

I never really paid attention to my inverted rowing, I may have to peep it and see if I can do 10 touching my chest to the bar.

I think it kind of sucks that you end up being either a functional guy or a hardcore big three guy. I see no problem picking from either or, but it seems most can't or won't.

That chick did 3 pull-ups with a 45lbs plate, that shit is crazy.

lol... yeah mike caught some heat for that post.

People didn't understand that mike trains athletes and that how much they can deadlift is of no consequence.

He mentioned the word "overuse" earlier but didn't elaborate at all on it...I figured he might discuss bodybuilding splits with shoulder activation 4 days a week....

I'm also suprised he didn't mention a proper warmup as a great way to prevent injury..or perhaps exercises that are rotator friendly.

Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Cool stuff. I love my back squats though, I love front squats too. I actually just decided to stop deadlifting for a while.

I thought it was funny when he mentioned the part about individuals should be able to DB row 80% what you can DB bench, because my DB bench is pretty sad compared to my rowing.

Same here...and I thought it sad that he used 80% as a rule. Not saying he's wrong, but I really think a balanced individual should be able to pull more than they push in a lot of scenarios.

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Not gonna happen, in a BP your body is supported by a bench, in a row, your lower back does the supporting. Plus, the bench gives you something to push against while a row has no such feature.

Posted by: viet_jon

80% is about right for me.

I could probably do 120% of my dbBP....... with bad form.

Posted by: SAMIAM

Very interesting article- I'm intrigued by the inverted row reference am I correct in assuming this is basically a pull up performed under the bench BB with feet elevated on something?

Posted by: P-funk

I still have people back squat and do RDLs. I don't have people do cleans from the floor (unless they are training for olympic lifting), only the hang. We do lots of DB snatches also.

Inverted rows are great and an exercise I have used a lot.

I think with the squats and the deadlifts there are a few things that are important:

a) if it hurts, don't do it.

b) if you are hurt, don't do it.

c) use common sense and use the "technical failure", like he advocates.

d) cycle intensities

e) cycle the exercises in and out of the program

Posted by: JimSnow

I love this. New approaches! Smarter.

Why I'm here. These will take some time to master, retraining! I hate deadlifts because there's too much room for 'cheat'... thus injury. That Front Squat - I'm not sure about!

Fav Quote:
Charles Poliquin uses a term I like called "technical failure." What it basically means is that the set ends when you can no longer do another correct rep. I'm a big believer in the technical failure concept. The set ends at technical failure, not when you can't cheat through another rep. I'd always rather undertrain than overtrain. Tomorrow is another day. The tortoise beat the hare. The healthy trainee lives to train another day while the hurt guy goes to PT.

I don't think I can pull my 1RM on a chin. Yes, I'm finally realizing the "Push/Pull" value you guys are always talking about.

"Think Better, Work Smarter."

Posted by: Pedigree

Great article. I have always trained for athletic performance, not size or raw strength, so it makes perfect sense to me.
Unilateral legwork makes sense for athletes because an athlete spends very little time on both legs during a game or match, yet they spend so much time training legs bilaterally.

Posted by: CowPimp

A lot of good points in the article. My thoughts:

I definitely like to cycle back squats out of my programs periodically. I'm in the last week of a 6 week phase where I didn't do any back squatting, only front squats and split squats. Front squats are very underutilized, but I like them a lot. Front squats with dumbbells are great for a progression too. I also like one legged squats a lot. I do those in my GPP programs often enough.

DB snatches are awesome. Honestly, I don't use them enough with my clients, but I really want to start. This was a good reminder. It's fairly easy to teach and yields excellent results. I include these in my GPP programs sometimes also.

Chinups own. I can personally chinup more than I can bench press. I do chinups all the damned time, and agree that pulling strength is very important. Inverted rows also own, and I use these with my clients a lot as well. Really, I try to get all of my clients doing inverted rows and chinups without assistance.

I disagree, to some extent, about what he said with regard to deadlifts. Some compressive load is good for your spine so long as you don't chronically outpace the tissue's ability to adapt. There is a U shaped curve with regard to those who experience low back problem when discussing loading. Those who don't load their spines enough tend to have problems, and those who do it too much tend to have problems. Also, when training others you can much more appropriately implement technical failure too. If I start to see any rounding in one of my clients' backs, then we stop then and there. Granted, I see his point and I do think one leg deadlifts are fucking awesome. I use this exercise a lot on myself and my clients as well.

Also, I must say that you have to consider the individual. Some people cannot deadlift off the floor without rounding their backs because of poor hip mobility. I don't have these people deadlift, or if I do then it's off the pins in a rack.

I think hang cleans are great, and that's generally what I use when I implement cleans in my own programs. Actually, I don't even bother having my clients do cleans. If I was dealing with an athlete, then perhaps, but I see no reason Joe Average needs cleans. There are plenty of other less technical movements where you can work on developing explosive power for the less aggressive individual.

Posted by: PWGriffin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Not gonna happen, in a BP your body is supported by a bench, in a row, your lower back does the supporting. Plus, the bench gives you something to push against while a row has no such feature.

That's a good point...

But I've been doing DB rows with 120's for reps for many moons now and have never picked up 100's for DB presses. Perhaps my form could've been better before on the rows. But my back is way stronger than my chest it seems...

Posted by: Brutus_G

I have a very weak BB row but my DB row is almost on par with my db bench. I have been doing 1 leg squats and must admit they are hard and an excellent way to force balance between the two legs.

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