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Originally Posted by plewser2006
agreed...
but coming from my scronny ass maybe i should just shut up... [12 inch arms] |
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Originally Posted by Prince
just get arm implants.
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Originally Posted by zl214
BTW, can anyone explain waht core strength is?
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Originally Posted by zl214
BTW, can anyone explain waht core strength is?
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Originally Posted by Triple Threat
Center of the body strength. For me that means abs, obliques, lower back, hips, and glutes.
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
core strength is kind of overrated; whenever you do compounds your core is utilized, as well as several other exercises. I believe that "core strength" got its popularity from the fatasses that merely sit on their fat fucking asses looking for the latest gadget found on tv that will work their core strength or in their pencilneck minds burn the fat while building abs. We as BBers and fitness enthusiasts alike work our core most of the time when we pick a weight up.
I actually FUHHHHCKING hate saying those two words. It makes me think of a really bad movie called Perfect with when Jamie Lee Curtis was actually hot, or those dumb fucking Tony Little commercials. |
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Originally Posted by zl214
I dont do direct ab workout at all, but i do other compound exercises such as front squating, DL, Power clean. can these compound exercises replace direct ab exercises?
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Originally Posted by camarosuper6
A few things Ive noticed....
Rack deads and pulls do much more for my traps than shrugs... Ill never do shrugs again. Chins destroy my biceps...even more than heavy barbell curls. I rotate three bicep exercises... barbell curls, one arm dumbell curls and closegrip chins. Military Pressreally hammers my triceps... along with heavy dips for my and close grip bench on a smith machine for safety. Overhead pressing movements are all I need for shoulders. I no longer do laterals....although I do see the validity for using them. I do believe they cap the shoulders well. I do not hate machines... as long as the weight is heavy, I use free weights, smith and hammer strength. Granted free weight being my first choice, I see nothing wrong with using smith and hammer for saftey puposes. As long as your overload is progressive... you will get larger. Squats and deadlifts period. If your doing all the above exercises.... your core gets very strong, so doing direct core work should be kept at minimal volume, or if will effect your other lifts. |
| Deadlift variations, good mornings, farmer's walks, and good ol' rows take care of the traps. |
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
core strength is kind of overrated; whenever you do compounds your core is utilized, as well as several other exercises. I believe that "core strength" got its popularity from the fatasses that merely sit on their fat fucking asses looking for the latest gadget found on tv that will work their core strength or in their pencilneck minds burn the fat while building abs. We as BBers and fitness enthusiasts alike work our core most of the time when we pick a weight up.
I actually FUHHHHCKING hate saying those two words. It makes me think of a really bad movie called Perfect with when Jamie Lee Curtis was actually hot, or those dumb fucking Tony Little commercials. |
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Originally Posted by zl214
interesting enough, This is something i came across today.
i was laughing my head off when i saw this pic. |
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Originally Posted by Strongwarrior
Arms are very important! Show me a bodybuilder with small arms, and I'll automaticaly think he is pathetic! It's also about proportion too, you can't just have huge legs, chest and back, and have spaggetii arms, it just looks bad
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Originally Posted by zl214
the original post was about the redundancy of direct arm exercise, not about the actual arm size.
i think the point of this post is that if you have a huge back/chest/legs, you will have huge arms. that is why excessive direct arm workout (which many people are using) is not necessary. |
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Originally Posted by StanUk
Wow, that guys arms are huge compared to his chest, that just doesnt look right at all!
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Originally Posted by KarlW
Ahhh..... dips with several pounds of weight dangling between your legs. There's no better feeling.
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Originally Posted by Strongwarrior
Other professional bodybuilders, like Flex Wheeler and Lee priest had huge arms, but a relatively underdeveloped torso...Someone with good proportions, in my opinion, would be Arnold Scharzzenegger, huge arms but also huge chest and great back
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
But arnold had terrible legs. Although he was symmetrical, he still didnt have better legs (and overall better package) than lou ferrigno, a bber who didnt get half the credit he deserved. Dont get me wrong, Arnold was great, but there were better physiques out there.
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Originally Posted by Prince
by today's standards Arnold's legs were weak, however back in the 70's they were fine.
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Originally Posted by Strongwarrior
This is very true...How big were his legs? I know his arms were 22''
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Originally Posted by Double D
Start by doing compound exercises. Your muscles will strengthen faster this way than they would doing 3 sets of tricep kickbacks and 3 sets of preacher curls supersetted with 3 sets of cable crossovers and a abductor machine.
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Originally Posted by zl214
Sorry, this may a little bit off the arnold vs Lou topic, but i didnt want to start another post
it is funny that in my gym, most people think that DL, squating, power clean, are more advanced exercises that beginners should keep off of. i think this is true becasue you need to be lifting or playing enough sport to develop sufficient neuro-coordination and strength to perform a lot of these compound exercises. for example, when i started lifting, i couldnt do a full rep of deadlift until i developed enough strength on the lower back and the hammies by doing back hyperextension and leg-curl. and i can still remmeber when i started doing bench press with an empty bar, it was all shaky and i couldnt lower tha bar to my chest because my triceps were too weak. what i am try to say is not everyone in the gym is strong enough or coordinated enough to do compound exercises and it is probably safer for them to wait until they develops enough strength/coordination through isolation exercises. |
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Originally Posted by CowPimp
It depends on the individual. To an extent you have the right idea. However, the way I would get someone performing a solid rep on the bench would not be with kickbacks, machine flys, and lateral raises. That isn't going to do much for intermuscular coordination. It might strengthen the individual muscles in a very general way, but that isn't going to make for a pretty bench press the first time out.
I start people off with pushup variations and progress from there. Usually that gives them a good prerequisite level of strength and stabilizer control to allow them to bench press without being too shaky. Still, the first time you bench isn't going to be poetry in motion; you have to get used to the movement specifically, and open chain exercises like that in general, before it will be entirely smooth. |
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Originally Posted by zl214
what i am try to say is not everyone in the gym is strong enough or coordinated enough to do compound exercises and it is probably safer for them to wait until they develops enough strength/coordination through isolation exercises.
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Originally Posted by CowPimp
It depends on the individual. To an extent you have the right idea. However, the way I would get someone performing a solid rep on the bench would not be with kickbacks, machine flys, and lateral raises. That isn't going to do much for intermuscular coordination. It might strengthen the individual muscles in a very general way, but that isn't going to make for a pretty bench press the first time out.
I start people off with pushup variations and progress from there. Usually that gives them a good prerequisite level of strength and stabilizer control to allow them to bench press without being too shaky. Still, the first time you bench isn't going to be poetry in motion; you have to get used to the movement specifically, and open chain exercises like that in general, before it will be entirely smooth. |
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Originally Posted by CowPimp
It depends on the individual. To an extent you have the right idea. However, the way I would get someone performing a solid rep on the bench would not be with kickbacks, machine flys, and lateral raises. That isn't going to do much for intermuscular coordination. It might strengthen the individual muscles in a very general way, but that isn't going to make for a pretty bench press the first time out.
I start people off with pushup variations and progress from there. Usually that gives them a good prerequisite level of strength and stabilizer control to allow them to bench press without being too shaky. Still, the first time you bench isn't going to be poetry in motion; you have to get used to the movement specifically, and open chain exercises like that in general, before it will be entirely smooth. |
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Originally Posted by Stewart20
when I began lifting way back when, I started doing a bunch of pushups every night before bed. then I progressed to pushups using pushup bars, and assorted curls. Then I progressed to the bench press, plus other movements you can perform with just a barbell like shoulder presses and tricep extensions.
So it's funny you mention that, cause I began the same way |
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Originally Posted by zl214
god.... i am such a mum.
how do you delete a post? |
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Originally Posted by zl214
also, it is different to start with a trainer compared to start all on your own. it is much safer with someone who knows what to do. if you start by yourself, the net is basically the only place that a newbie can turn into (talking to the big guys can be very intimidating for some), which can be very confusing becasue you dont necessarily get all the information in the right order. I think this board is definitely one of the better place to start with and i dont want beginners on this site get put off by not being able to do coumpound exercises and feel inadequate or anything.
or is it me being condescending? |
after lifting for two year.
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Originally Posted by CowPimp
You have a good point with regard to not having a trainer. Still, as you mentioned before, you need to develop a certain level of neuromuscular coordination to perform compound exercises with any kind of proficiency. You are going to get a very limited improvement in neuromuscular coordination by doing a bunch of isolation exercises.
Furthermore, the issue a lot of people have isn't a lack of strength, but a lack of proper knowledge of technique. Sorry to say, but doing leg curls and extensions before your first squat isn't going to do diddly if your technique is still garbage. Most people can do a squat with their bodyweight, they just don't know how to do it properly. Now, there are certainly cases where more remedial work is warranted, but that is not the norm. |
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Originally Posted by camarosuper6
Chins destroy my biceps...even more than heavy barbell curls.
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
I dont think its a good idea to get into a pissing match with me.
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Originally Posted by zl214
this is really getting into a chicken/egg conversation.
I do agree with fact that compound exercises are better than isolation exercises. on the other hand, there are two reasons that lead to the relative low popularity of many of the compound exercise in reality. 1. people are not informed about the benefit of compound exercise, which is not likely to be the case on this site, thanks to the constant effort from moderators and many members 2. people simply cant do them. just want to remind that possibility 2 do exist and there is nothing wrong with not being able to perform those lifts. |
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Originally Posted by AKIRA
I guess what I would simply put it as, people who do lots of isolation movements are pussies who dont want to work harder with compounds...even though in total, its more weight.
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Originally Posted by Double D
I totally disagree. Start by doing compound exercises. Your muscles will strengthen faster this way than they would doing 3 sets of tricep kickbacks and 3 sets of preacher curls supersetted with 3 sets of cable crossovers and a abductor machine.
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Originally Posted by camarosuper6
Its ludicrous to start with isolation exercises.
ANYONE can do basic compound movements. I would say ditch isolation completely the first year of training. |
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Originally Posted by camarosuper6
Its ludicrous to start with isolation exercises.
ANYONE can do basic compound movements. I would say ditch isolation completely the first year of training. |
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
where's the science behind that statement? I'd love to drop the isolation movements, but I need facts.
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Originally Posted by P-funk
the science behind it is that nothing is in isolation. Muscles work synergystically to produce movement. When you do a 'pull', you are always contracting your biceps. It isn't like we can make this up. It is fact. It is the biomechanics of the human body....the proof is in the pudding.
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
I agree up to a point-I'm a HUGE believer in barbell curls and close grip bench presses; However, if you don't work your arms to some degree with a small amount of isolation, aren't you missing out on the small details?
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Originally Posted by P-funk
Steroid abuse can be discussed anytime you mention how BBers train (or any other athlete as it is prevelant in most sports). |
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Maybe you could talk, if we could decipher your spelling mistakes.
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Maybe you could talk, if we could decipher your spelling mistakes.
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Originally Posted by Double D
Most bodybuilders are on a one way track to an early grave. Some practice steroids the right way, but for the most part as far as pro's go, they have been dieing off early for years. Well atleast todays bb'ers anyways. I see nothing good about someone like Ronnie Coleman. I think he looks like hell and if I had to inject all that crap that he does, then I wouldnt want to look like him. I do think there shouldnt be bodybuilding mags in the first place. BB'ers have gotten carried away and this sets a bad example for the youth of today and society as a whole. In my opinion this helps contribute to steroid use. You see a guy this size and automatically you think, "steroids". And this is what it takes to get that big. Young kids then decide to start injecting whatever the corner supplier tells him (which is to much because he is awaiting him to come back for more). And they either suffer an injury (from growing much to fast), burn themselves out, do well and lead a life full of steroid abuse (eventually messing something up before getting to the big show), doing one cycle then stopping (and we all know how easy it is to get fat after a cycle), the very unlucky ones will die, then theres that less than 1% that will actually make it to be a pro-bb'er.
So P I go with you on this one. There is no reason to preach arms arms arms for the simple fact that the majority of people here arent on steroids, but rather high off of life. This is a good honest community. We have a few guys here who use steroids, but they are older fellas and are simply trying to keep they levels up or very experienced in which they know their shit (mudge). The majority of people here dont think that a arm routine of 20 sets will get them anywhere than stuck in a larger rut than they have already dug for themselves. A final look at this would be if you would simply have a hard ass back routine and follow it with a few sets of biceps that is all you need if you are a natural bb'er (in which most here are). |
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
Great statement, although i dont agree with "most bodybuilders" .
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Originally Posted by plewser2006
anyone else think this thread had been drawn out way to long?
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Originally Posted by plewser2006
anyone else think this thread had been drawn out way to long?
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Originally Posted by plewser2006
i knew that was comming...
is it my avatar? seriously? |
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Originally Posted by plewser2006
i knew that was comming...
is it my avatar? seriously? |
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Originally Posted by plewser2006
i knew that was comming...
is it my avatar? seriously? |
