Should I loose fat and then gain muscle? [Forum Archive]

Pages: 1

Should I loose fat and then gain muscle?

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Leever

I have been a big lifter for a long time. I have had a really good year with my increases in my lifts. I do cardio every day that I lift and I lift on M, W, F. I then rest my muscles on the weekend but I try to stay active for my little girl. My wife wants me to stop lifting and do more cardio because my body fat is a little higher than most 20-25%. i don't want to give up lifting because I worked hard for what I have but then part of me wants me to lose the bodyfat so I can stop tearing my pants in the crotch.

My question to the masses is: Should I stop lifting and do more cardio and such or should I keep lifting and add another cardio onto everything?

My current configuration is:
Monday - Chest/Biceps - Elliptical Machine 44 min
Wednesday - Shoulders/Legs - Elliptical Machine 44 min
Friday - Triceps/Back - Elliptical Machine 44 min

I can only workout on these three days and I have a window of 1.5 hours to work with on these three days. The weekend I usaully keep active with walking, biking, play at the gym with my 2.5 y/o daughter. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

Posted by: Double D

get your body where you are happy at then bulk. At 20-25%bf I dont think its a good idea to bulk.

Posted by: ABCs

I would say concentrate on the cutting first. Your workout seems to be fine, the culprit must be your diet. What's it look like, what are your eating habbits, etc etc?

Posted by: Double D

Hell at 20-25% you may not even have to cut, just trim up your diet a bit. Cut out the junk. Eat better foods. It is very easy. At that bf your eating habits cant be good. best of luck to you.

Posted by: Leever

I have to admit that my eating habits are not the best. I mean my diet consists of whole grain in both our pasta and breads. We eat chicken most of the time and eat a little bit of beef and canned tuna. We always keep fresh veggies and fruits in our refrigerator and the reason why we have been eating like this is because it has helped me greatly to reduce my cholesterol.

My main problem is knowing when to stop and the fact that I eat to fast doesn't help either.

Posted by: ABCs

Originally Posted by Leever

I have to admit that my eating habits are not the best. I mean my diet consists of whole grain in both our pasta and breads. We eat chicken most of the time and eat a little bit of beef and canned tuna. We always keep fresh veggies and fruits in our refrigerator and the reason why we have been eating like this is because it has helped me greatly to reduce my cholesterol.

My main problem is knowing when to stop and the fact that I eat to fast doesn't help either.

Well if you don't want all your hard work to go to nothing, then I advise counting the numbers. If your just eating, don't know the portion size and how many calories, then who knows what your intaking. I say crunch your numbers and adjust your diet accordingly.

Posted by: Leever

Thank you very much Double D.

I am trying to map out some meals right now and see what I can have in relation to the other meals. I am a systems engineer so I need to map it out and plan for different meals throughout the day. For instance if I have breakfast A then I can eat either lunch A-C and also have supper B-D. The reason why I wanted to start planning it out like that is so I don't have to think about it when I want to eat.

I am also looking at possibly speed up my current routine and see if I cannot squeeze in another exercise that might be cardio based. If anyone has any suggestions please yell them out.

Posted by: Leever

Originally Posted by ABCs

I say crunch your numbers and adjust your diet accordingly.

Thank you for the suggestion. I will do it again and see what happens. I was told by the nutrionist that I should crunch the numbers and try to get my intake down to around 2100 calories in order for me to see any results. I did that and I fould that my daily average was 1800 calories. I kept to that intake for two weeks and I kept coming up with 1800 calories. I reported that to the nutrionist and she had nothing to say to that. She thought I was lying and basically stopped helping me. So I kep eating what I was eating and kept lifting. I am slowly seeing definition but I think by the time that I look cut, I will be huge and my kids will have been moved out of the house.

I need to do a very detailed report on my caloric intake to see where the gaps might be.

Again, thank you for your suggestion.

Posted by: P-funk

worko n eating a healthy diet and training properly and efficiently and your BF% and weight will balance themselves out.

This in't rocket science. Everyone wants to make is so complicated..."should I bulk up first and then cut? Should I lose fat and then bulk up?"

Just eat healthy and train properly and you wont have to worry about terms like 'bulk' and 'cut', you will be at a point in your health where you feel good and look good and you are living a proper lifestyle. Those are the most important goals that you need to focus on.

Posted by: JerseyDevil

Originally Posted by P-funk

worko n eating a healthy diet and training properly and efficiently and your BF% and weight will balance themselves out.

This in't rocket science. Everyone wants to make is so complicated..."should I bulk up first and then cut? Should I lose fat and then bulk up?"

Just eat healthy and train properly and you wont have to worry about terms like 'bulk' and 'cut', you will be at a point in your health where you feel good and look good and you are living a proper lifestyle. Those are the most important goals that you need to focus on.

Patrick knows what he is talking about.

Posted by: Leever

Originally Posted by P-funk

Just eat healthy and train properly and you wont have to worry about terms like 'bulk' and 'cut',

Thank you P-Funk. That is now a bigger driver to review my calories and try harder in limiting my intake.

Posted by: Adamjs

Originally Posted by P-funk

Just eat healthy and train properly and you wont have to worry about terms like 'bulk' and 'cut', you will be at a point in your health where you feel good and look good and you are living a proper lifestyle. Those are the most important goals that you need to focus on.

Couldn't agree more. When being healthy becomes your lifestyle bulking/cutting or whatever you want to do will come with greater ease as you get to know your own bodies limitations.

Posted by: ABCs

Originally Posted by Adamjs

Couldn't agree more. When being healthy becomes your lifestyle bulking/cutting or whatever you want to do will come with greater ease as you get to know your own bodies limitations.

Agreed. But as of right now, it seems Leever needs to crunch some numbers before he can just let his diet roll out normally.

Posted by: Leever

Absolutely ABCs. I started counting my calories this morning. I am treating this as a research project as if I was at work. I am also going to try to be more conscious of what I am eating...portion wise.

I have always had the mentality of "I am lifting heavy and doing cardio so I can eat whatever I want...no big deal!" I have been eating large portions of food because of that and that is why I have been having such a slow time trimming up. I have been getting trim and my weight has stayed the same but it has taken me over a year to get to where I am right now. The only reason why I have any definition is because I have been bulking up throughout the years. But you guys are absolutly right and I need to be more serious about my portion size than I have been in the past. I have a little book from The Calorie King which will be useful when we go out to eat. Does anyone have any tips on going out to eat or do you use that as a day to spoil yourself?

Now you know, my wife has been hounding me about my calorie intake and portion size for years and because I have not gained weight and my lifts have been increasing, she has mellowed out. She is going to wave this in my face for years to come.

Posted by: Uberfreak

Hey Leever, your getting some good advice here. The only things I might add are to cut out any fried foods, sugar (as much as possable), and choose complex carbs like brown rice, baked potato, and old fashioned oatmeal over simple carbs like pasta, white bread, baked goods and packaged cereals.
Your cardio is real close to mine. I do 4x a week after w/o for 40-60 min. The last couple of weeks I have added a fat burner. Lipotrophin AM and PM and it has really made a difference, I was able to drop 7-8 lbs (depending on the scale) in just over 2 weeks. Your on the right path, stick with it and you should see good results.

Posted by: yuppy

your diet is whats keeping your BF so high. your running is impressive, but try adding some HIIT into that...

Posted by: Yanick

If you're really eating only 1800kcal/day, lifting three times/week and doing cardio 4x/week you might need to increase your kcal for a couple of weeks to reset your metabolism. 1800kcal is what a woman should be eating not a grown, active male.

At this juncture you need to keep a food log for a week and see how many avg kcals you are eating each day. 1800kcals doesn't sound like a big eater to me.

Posted by: Uthinkso

Your in a similar situation to me. It was my diet that was hurting me. I've moved around my diet, and I eat between 2000-2750 calories a day and about 300g of protein a day on work out days and 200g on non-workout days. I try and make sure I'm eating every 3hrs, with my last meal being after the gym at 9:30-10pm.

Posted by: Leever

I only said that I was trying to get down to 1800 cal. I did one assessment on my caloric intake for just one day and I found that I was eating in the 3500 area. Like I said at the beginning, I am not gaining weight....but I am not losing fat either... My lifts have been going up and I am bulking up everywhere. If I should be around 2500 calories then that sounds better and then I wouldn't be so hunger.

I have to take off.

Posted by: P-funk

why don't you use the generic formula:

lose= 10-12 cals per LB of BW

maintain= 14-16 cals per LB of BW

gain= 18-20 cals per LB of BW

start with the maintain and do it for 4 weeks and see what happens. From there, you will know what to do.

Posted by: Seanp156

That formula doesn't take into account physical activity, does it? There's no way I would maintain on 2660-3040 cals per day.

Posted by: P-funk

it isn't 100% accurate. if you have a fast metabolism, start at the higher number. After a couple weeks you will know what to do from there.

Posted by: JonnyStead

Originally Posted by Uberfreak

Hey Leever, your getting some good advice here. The only things I might add are to cut out any fried foods, sugar (as much as possable), and choose complex carbs like brown rice, baked potato, and old fashioned oatmeal over simple carbs like pasta, white bread, baked goods and packaged cereals.
Your cardio is real close to mine. I do 4x a week after w/o for 40-60 min. The last couple of weeks I have added a fat burner. Lipotrophin AM and PM and it has really made a difference, I was able to drop 7-8 lbs (depending on the scale) in just over 2 weeks. Your on the right path, stick with it and you should see good results.

Hey mate - whats the brand name of the Lipotrophin fat burner you're using?

Posted by: SkwatButt

Side note:

As soon as I stopped obsessing over every single calorie I started losing weight. I tried using "the book" and counting every single thing I ate, and it took far too much of my time.

My keys:

- Portion control. Don't eat until you're full, eat the meal you've planned out.
- Eat your six meals/day, and eat them 2.5-3 hours apart. No meals should be "make up meals" for when you've skipped one by mistake
- No bread, even whole grain. Too much yeast can wreak havoc on your digestive system, and could get in the way of nutrient absorption. I'm getting along fine with brown rice, steel cut oats and sweet potatoes.
- As many fresh fruit and veggies as you can. I've learned those calories don't really count, as you're subsituting it for less healthy choices. I eat several pounds of fruit/veggies per day and I'm still losing
- Water. Up your intake to as much as you can stand. Everyone talks about "water poisoning" like it's common, but it's tough to do. Just drink as much as you can.
- No processed drinks. Sure, Gatorade/Powerade is great for hardcore endurance athletes, but you don't really need it. Drink some more water. Diet sodas are NOT an okay subsititute. Take a caffeine pill or FOOSH energy mints.
- When you get tired of brown rice, try a lil' hot sauce.

Spices don't have calories that count.

Just a few tips from my vault of "what works for me". It may not work for you, or anyone that wants to flame me for not counting every calorie, but it does for some and I suggest everyone try it.

Posted by: ABCs

Originally Posted by SkwatButt

Just a few tips from my vault of "what works for me". It may not work for you, or anyone that wants to flame me for not counting every calorie, but it does for some and I suggest everyone try it.

First off, you have some great advice in there and secondly, if it works for you, then who gives a shit? That's all that truly matters in the end... results.

Posted by: motiv8ed

Originally Posted by SkwatButt

Side note:

As soon as I stopped obsessing over every single calorie I started losing weight. I tried using "the book" and counting every single thing I ate, and it took far too much of my time.

My keys:

- Portion control. Don't eat until you're full, eat the meal you've planned out.
- Eat your six meals/day, and eat them 2.5-3 hours apart. No meals should be "make up meals" for when you've skipped one by mistake
- No bread, even whole grain. Too much yeast can wreak havoc on your digestive system, and could get in the way of nutrient absorption. I'm getting along fine with brown rice, steel cut oats and sweet potatoes.
- As many fresh fruit and veggies as you can. I've learned those calories don't really count, as you're subsituting it for less healthy choices. I eat several pounds of fruit/veggies per day and I'm still losing
- Water. Up your intake to as much as you can stand. Everyone talks about "water poisoning" like it's common, but it's tough to do. Just drink as much as you can.
- No processed drinks. Sure, Gatorade/Powerade is great for hardcore endurance athletes, but you don't really need it. Drink some more water. Diet sodas are NOT an okay subsititute. Take a caffeine pill or FOOSH energy mints.
- When you get tired of brown rice, try a lil' hot sauce.

Check out this bread:
Ezekiel 4:9® Organic Sprouted 100% Whole Grain Flourless Bread
www.foodforlife.com
From their website:
00% FLOURLESS ? COMPLETE PROTEIN ? WHOLE GRAIN BREAD

GLYCEMIC INDEX: 36

Ezekiel 4:9® Sprouted Grain Bread is inspired by the Holy Scripture verse: "Take also unto thee Wheat, and Barley, and beans, and lentils, and millet, and Spelt, and put them in one vessel, and make bread of it..."Ez 4:9

We discovered when these six grains and legumes are sprouted and combined, an amazing thing happens. A complete protein is created that closely parallels the protein found in milk and eggs. In fact, the protein quality is so high, that it is 84.3% as efficient as the highest recognized source of protein, containing all 9 essential amino acids. There are 18 amino acids present in this unique bread - from all vegetable sources - naturally balanced in nature.

Ezekiel 4:9® Bread is made from freshly sprouted organically grown grains, is naturally flavorful and bursting with nutrients. Rich in protein, vitamins, minerals and natural fiber with no added fat.

INGREDIENTS: Organic Sprouted Whole Wheat, Filtered Water, Organic Malted Barley, Organic Sprouted Whole Millet, Organic Sprouted Whole Barley, Organic Sprouted Whole Lentils, Organic Sprouted Whole Soybeans, Organic Sprouted Whole Spelt, Fresh Yeast, Sea Salt.

Serving Size: 1 Slice
Calories: 80 From Fat: 5
Total Fat: 0.5
Sodium: 75
Total Carbohydrate: 15
Dietary Fiber: 3
Sugars: 0
Protein: 4

I get this stuff at super wal mart in the frozen section... like $3.50 a loaf. Normal price, but Its so good you can eat it without butter or antyhing, just toast it up

Posted by: SkwatButt

I've had Ezekiel, and it tastes bloody terrible. I'd rather eat a real piece of bread than substitute that rubber/cardboard mix.

Posted by: Double D

Nice I was wondering where in the hell to get that from! This bread is ok, ask an old pro......Oh Jodi your needed.

Oh and as far as cutting out Diet soda, well yes to an extent but everyone has to have some type of get away. If your drinking enough water the soda shouldnt harm you to much. I drink one once every 3 days or so. Trying to keep my sanity.

Posted by: Leever

Originally Posted by SkwatButt

Side note:

- Eat your six meals/day, and eat them 2.5-3 hours apart. No meals should be "make up meals" for when you've skipped one by mistake

I used to eat six meals a day and I was never hungry and I lost a lot of weight. That was the main thing that helped me lose the weight. The nice thing about eating six meals, is that there was little waste. I understand the concept that what goes in must come out but with me, it didn't. What I hate about eating three meals is the fact that I am hungry between meals so I eat a lot. I also try to eat slowly so I get filled up and respond to my stomach before it is too late, but that is hard to do. I have been trying to get my family on the six meals a day but I am having no luck. Our daughter, who is 2.5 years old, eats about six meals a day but that is naturally programmed in her head. My wife understands that of toddlers and children of earlier ages because she is only responding to the need for food and not the schedule.

I believe that that is how our bodies are made to work and being intelligent mammals, we came up with something other than what nature intended. I have been dividing up my wifes meals so I can eat them later in the day or night.

Thank you very much for your suggestions and I will make a note of that.

Posted by: Leever

Motiv8ed,
Thank you for the bread suggestion. My wife and I will keep it in mind for groceries.

Posted by: Leever

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I appreciate you input and you have given me more to think about. I will start incorporating your suggestions in my everyday life activities.

Thank you.

Posted by: P-funk

oh, and never stop lifting. stopping will make your fat loss goals go right down the drain.

you could use a better structured training program though. if you are only training 3x's a week, you need to be efficient.

Posted by: Leever

What would you suggest me doing to improve my plan?

I get to the gym around & 7:30pm and start lifting. I will get done doing my two body parts by 8:30pm or so...usually later on the days that I do legs. Then I do about 40-44minutes of cardio which is done on the elliptical machine. I am just now starting to incorporate jogging instead of the elliptical machine. I walk one lap around the tennis courts then I jog the next lap. Then walk the next and then jog again...I sometimes sprint the long straight aways. I want to get to a point that I am just jogging and doing some sprints. I am doing that because it seems that you are favoring sprinting to help lose fat.

That is currently how I am working out on those three days.

Posted by: P-funk

if your goal is fat loss......total body workouts. Use upper/lower supersets. Set up specific phases of training with goals and just hit it.

Posted by: motiv8ed

Originally Posted by SkwatButt

I've had Ezekiel, and it tastes bloody terrible. I'd rather eat a real piece of bread than substitute that rubber/cardboard mix.

oh man! I just had a peice of toast... I dont put anything on it, butter/pb/spreads... I just eat it plane. I think it has a fantastic taste!

But I guess to each his own!

Leever: Dont know if anyone suggested this to you... but CONSISTANTLY AND WITHOUT FAIL! JOURNAL YOUR DIET! JOURNAL JOURNAL JOURNAL!

I have a mac, and I use my iCal to journal my diet/training/cardio If i eat a frickin snickers bar, I have to go through the pain of writing it in my journal, how many calories it has/pro/carbs all that stuff...

And it doesnt take that long typing it in. After every meal, Just open up my iCal and write it in. Its become a normal part of my routine now.

It has been working out really well for me. Just a suggestion though.

Cheers
J

Posted by: motiv8ed

Originally Posted by Leever

What would you suggest me doing to improve my plan?

I get to the gym around & 7:30pm and start lifting. I will get done doing my two body parts by 8:30pm or so...usually later on the days that I do legs. Then I do about 40-44minutes of cardio which is done on the elliptical machine. I am just now starting to incorporate jogging instead of the elliptical machine. I walk one lap around the tennis courts then I jog the next lap. Then walk the next and then jog again...I sometimes sprint the long straight aways. I want to get to a point that I am just jogging and doing some sprints. I am doing that because it seems that you are favoring sprinting to help lose fat.

That is currently how I am working out on those three days.

Your better sticking to the eliptical. Your goal should be to get your heartrate up and keep it there for no less than 30 minutes, not greater than 60.

I'm quoting a concept i read in the burn the fat feed the muscle chapter on cardio here... but the higher intensity, the better. People say use HIIT to prevent the body from breaking down muscle for energy but bffm says that your more likely to loose LBM through not eating enough pro rather than by doing too much cardio also if your training the muscles they wont get smaller... Heres a little fun fact: I read that drinking coffee before doing your cardio will persuade the body not to use the (amino acids i think it said) from muscles, effectivly not breaking down the muscle for energy when glycose runs out. (from memory, sorry if i screwed the pooch on this one)

WIth that understanding... the Eliptical is going to be the most effective means of cardio for the purpose of fat loss. BFFM suggests anywhere between 30 mins - 1 hour. I do 45 a day, sometimes twice a day. I was at 20%bf I'm lower now, I need to get it measured, but in 3 weeks I've seen HUGE losses of fat by sticking to my diet and by using this method of cardio.
It works for my body type... perhaps it may work for yours.

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Should I loose fat and then gain muscle?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34