Can you work the lower fibers of the trapezius? [Forum Archive]

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Can you work the lower fibers of the trapezius?

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Posted by: the_general64

i was reading that while the upper fibers elevate the scapula, the lower fibers depress the scapula. So doing shrugs wouldn't necessarily work the lower fibers. are there any excercises that would? exrx.net has great pictures of the upper, middle, and lower fibers of the traps.

Posted by: Gazhole

Incline bench rows, deadlifts/rdls...

Posted by: Gordo

pretty much any rowing movement should work.

Posted by: Yanick

The collective trapezius muscle(s) does a number of things to the scapula including elevation, depression and retraction and upward rotation. Therefore, shrugs should hit your upper traps more, shrugs leaning on a bench (or retraction of the scapula) will work more middle and scapular depression while hanging from a pull up bar will hit the lower traps. To what degree one can isolate a certain portion of the traps from another is not certain. As well i doubt one needs to start isolating trapezius portions as long as they have proper movements patterns and do compound lifts like DL's, Pull-ups/downs, and Rows.

Posted by: Witchblade

External rotation in reverse flies and scap pushups isolate the mid and lower traps.

Posted by: the_general64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

External rotation in reverse flies and scap pushups isolate the mid and lower traps.

what are scapula pushups? never heard of them.......

Posted by: Witchblade

You start in the same position as with pushups, hands at shoulder width, but you do not move your arms. Instead you push your upper back up and slowly lower it without moving any other bodypart. Basically you squeeze your shoulder blades (scapula) together and apart. You can also do this in a dip position.

Posted by: wilwn

dips

Posted by: mike456

face pulls

Posted by: Yanick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

External rotation in reverse flies and scap pushups isolate the mid and lower traps.

Off the top of my head, scap pushups shouldn't really be hitting any part of the traps as scap pushups are basically scapular protraction (or abduction) and the traps (mid and lower fibers) are responsible for scapular retraction (adduction). Rather, scap pushups hit more of your pec minor and other musculature which abducts your scapula (i believe the serratus anterior might have a hand in that too).

Posted by: mike456

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

I agree

Posted by: Witchblade

Oops, my bad. Correct. Scapular retraction and depression target the mid/lower traps, protraction doesn't. Exercises like sitting on a seated row machine and retracting your shoulder blades.

And things like prone YTA's.

Posted by: Rhyno

i went to a physio a while back because i tweaked my lower trap (i did not know it was that when i did it) and she gave me a few exercises.

One included push up's where the main aim was to shrug back your shoulders (in a standing position), and keeping that same position exactly, once you go down into a push up lower yourself without moving your scaps.

after i got better at that she moved me onto doing the same thing on a fit ball.

The main point though is to focus on the form of not moving your shoulderbaldes once you get them in position.

(I know this was primarily rehab but she said it was to strenghten that part of my back)

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhyno

i went to a physio a while back because i tweaked my lower trap (i did not know it was that when i did it) and she gave me a few exercises.

One included push up's where the main aim was to shrug back your shoulders (in a standing position), and keeping that same position exactly, once you go down into a push up lower yourself without moving your scaps.

after i got better at that she moved me onto doing the same thing on a fit ball.

The main point though is to focus on the form of not moving your shoulderbaldes once you get them in position.

(I know this was primarily rehab but she said it was to strenghten that part of my back)

sounds like a bad idea if you ask me.

Posted by: Rhyno

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

sounds like a bad idea if you ask me.

Yeah it was a bit weird, the motion is not exactly natural. But when doing them i could feel it working in that part of my back and for the purpose of the rehab i did, it worked ok.

For the purpose of building muscle i can see that it would have limited use.

Posted by: P-funk

for the reason of rehab it is idiotic. She is basically programing a scapular movement that isn't supposed to happen. The scapula should be moving and abduction when the arms are pressing like that. By not doing it you compound your shoulder problems because you are not activating the proper musculature.

Posted by: Yanick

I thought the same when i read it but figured she's the PT and probably knows what she's doing

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

I thought the same when i read it but figured she's the PT and probably knows what she's doing

lol....that is a terrible assumption to make.

I remeber when I was 18, I thought all doctors must be smart and know what they are doing because they are doctors. By 20 I realized that a lot of them are really fucking stupid.

Posted by: Yanick

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

'Tis true. By 17 i knew not doctors are smart and recently i became totally convinced. I tweaked my back in one way or another and felt a shooting pain down my leg leading me to self diagnose a pulled/inflamed muscle and a pinched nerve. Last time that happened to me it was way worse and i couldn't walk for a couple of days, this time it was just a slight pull but i still wanted to heal ASAP. Last time my doc shot me with lidocaine and some sort of muscle relaxer, and this time i wanted to same sans the lidocaine because i wanted to be able to feel the pain to know when it was okay to start training again. I come into the office and tell him i want to feel the pain and for him just to shoot the muscle relaxer so the tightness/inflammation can go down and healing to begin. He comes in with 2 needles and shoots me with lidocaine in the exact spot of the muscle/pain then shoots the relaxer in a completely different spot. I'm sure it would diffuse over but i specifically stated i WANTED to feel the pain. Fuckin prick.

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