My new program [Forum Archive]

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My new program

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Posted by: Bakerboy

So I am starting a new program in a few days based around 3 full- body workouts per week with my main focus being improving my olympic lifting.
I also want to include some unilateral work to improve my balance. On my off days I will be doing tai chi or yoga, sprint work, as well as some form of steady state cardio - biking, swimming or running.
The rep/ set range I was thinking of using for the olympic lifts was: 5 x 5, 3 x 3 and 3 x 1. All other movements will be a mix of high reps in the 8-10 range and or 12, 10, 8 for 3 sets and the lower reps/ sets will be 5-6 x 3-4.

Tell me what you think. Any ideas on how to improve it? Thanks.

Day 1 Snatch day

BB snatch
One uni-lateral movement (bulgarian squats or step-ups)
Rows- BW or DB

Circuit

Pushups- Rolling MB between hands, clapping, box pushups etc.
Pullups- L pull ups

Stabilization/ core work

Day 2 Front squat day

Front squat
Uni-lateral bench press (incline or flat)
Rows

Circuit

Single-leg RDL's/ chinups

Rotator cuff work
Stabilization/ core work (rollouts, planks, bird dogs, v-ups, supermans etc.)

Day 3 Clean and press day

BB clean + press
Lunges or pistols
Chinups
Reverse fly's
Stabilization/ core

Posted by: Bakerboy

I was thinking of doing regular deadlifts also but I didn't know where to fit them in. If I do include them it will likely be on week 3 when I am doing singles x 3 after snatches on Day 1.

Posted by: Bakerboy

Bump

Posted by: P-funk

I guess it looks okay. I am not really understanding your loading and how it is going to progress.

what are the specific goals of each phase of training? How long will each phase last and what phase is this. Those are somethings you need to ask yourself. Also, why did I chose these exercises and place them in this order on these days. it just looks random to me...like you chose some exericses and through them down on paper.

Posted by: Bakerboy

Snatch, Front squat, Clean and press 5 x 5, 3 x 3, 3 x 1 (1st week, 2nd week, 3rd week) then repeat.

Sample first Day (week 1)

BB snatch 5 x 5 RI 45 sec

Bulgarian squat - 12, 10, 8 RI 60 sec
One arm DB rows 5-6 reps x 3-4 sets RI 90 sec

Circuit RI 60 sec

25 medicine ball pushups/ 15 pullups x 3

30 v-ups/ times bird dogs

How is that "random"? Talk about a huge insult.

Posted by: P-funk

it is just random. I don't get the whole idea of what you are trying to do.

Why do 5x5, 3x3 and then 3x1? Why not work on 5x5 for 3 weeks, 3x3 for 3 weeks and then 3x1 one for 3 weeks? Work on building a base.

Posted by: Bakerboy

Because it works.
I have a base.
When I do the second cycle I will increase the weight. It's not random because you don't understand. This type of loading has worked for me in the past.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Because it works.
I have a base.
When I do the second cycle I will increase the weight. It's not random because you don't understand. This type of loading has worked for me in the past.

so why ask for people's opinions?

If something works, then stick with it.

I have a base too. It doesn't mean that you just stop going back to the begining and trying to develop things though. like I said, you need to have specific phases of training. that looks like a phase that would lend itself to max strength. How are you getting into that phase? What have you been doing prior to this in terms of your olympic lifts (volume, intensity) etc.....I am saying you shouldn't just jump right in trying to work up to max (or near max) loads each month. Things need to be developed. That is why they have periodization and why you have specific training phases with different goals and different loading parameters and variables. Look at what you did for the last 6 weeks, what about before that? How do they relate together. How did one build off the other, etc.....

Don't get pissed off. I am just trying to help you make it better, so that you can get the most out of what you are trying to accomplish.

Posted by: Dale Mabry

If your goal is to improve your olympic lifting, I would just drill technique on those lifts and try to gain some strength that you can use later down the road. Are you trying to become an olympic lifter? If not, I would do a power version of the olympic lifts, possibly even from the hang. I wouldn't do 5 reps per set, and I would get more than 45 seconds between sets. You could do cluster sets with a lighter weight, but I think the most important thing would be to drill technique under rested conditions.

Do the rotator cuff work as activation work during your warm-up before every workout, and do stuff like drop push-ups to get better at engaging them more quickly. I really don't like isolation internal/external rotation for someone who has no RC issues.

IMO, when you are at the level of doing a program this complex, your core work can be done as a few sets of activation work in your warm-up as well.

Also, you do knee dominant work at low reps, but all hip dominant stuff is high rep. I would match them up just like you do push/pull.

As far as the reps go...12,10,8 is something you do to get ready for this. If you are already strong for your size, then maintain strength with 1-2 sets of low rep work after your olympic lifts. There is no reason to have volume so high in a program like this, all you will do is lose limit strength which will be detrimental to the O-lifts.

If I were you, I would go

O-lift 3-4 sets of 1 for technique
Leg-2 sets of 4 knee dominant
Leg-2 sets of 4 hip dominant
Push-2 sets of 4
Pull-2 sets of 4

You can alternate lifts between 4-8 reps if you want to give yourself a break, or do some exercises at 8 reps one day and the others at 8 reps the next.

Posted by: Bakerboy

Sorry for acting like an ass. I do appreciate both of your advice (P-funk, Dale)

I'm going to think this over and come back with something new.

You can alternate lifts between 4-8 reps if you want to give yourself a break, or do some exercises at 8 reps one day and the others at 8 reps the next.

Dale, what do you mean by this?

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Say you do this general template...

O-lift 4 sets of 1 for technique
Leg-2 sets knee dominant
Leg-2 sets hip dominant
Push-2 sets
Pull-2 sets

You could go...

O-lift 4 sets of 1 for technique
Leg-2x4 knee dominant
Leg-2x8 hip dominant
Push-2x4 sets
Pull-2x8 sets

One day, and...

O-lift 4 sets of 1 for technique
Leg-2x8 knee dominant
Leg-2x4 hip dominant
Push-2x8
Pull-2x4

The other day, flipping back and forth each time. Or, you could alternate them every couple of weeks.

Posted by: Bakerboy

That looks pretty good Dale. So on my O- lift working sets how heavy should I go- should I be incresing the weght each time
What I mean is because I am only doing singles should I go balls out on all 4 working sets or like just the last set?

My one rep max for BB snatch is 150 so what % should I lift in my first week, second week, third week etc.?

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Drill technique until you gain strength, then switch to heavier weights on the power exercises. I would stay low, probably around 115lbs drilling technique, and do it before the strength stuff.

Posted by: Bakerboy

I will do that. What about the front squats how low should I keep those reps- I assume I should use them to work on my strength? What if I did what P was saying- 5 x 5 to start?

Posted by: P-funk

5x5 will be pretty fatiguing. You really would have to know your percentages and know when to give up on a set because the technique is slowing down or slipping.

High sets of 2's would probably be best at first, just to drill technique.

Posted by: Bakerboy

So if I understand you correctly, P, you mean do 2 reps of something like 5 sets to start for the snatches and clean + press?

What about front squats should I just make an A and B day and put front squats on one day with clean and press and deadlifts with snatches- alternating A, B, A, B, A, B?

I think I could only manage 5 movements each day.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

So if I understand you correctly, P, you mean do 2 reps of something like 5 sets to start for the snatches and clean + press?

What about front squats should I just make an A and B day and put front squats on one day with clean and press and deadlifts with snatches- alternating A, B, A, B, A, B?

I think I could only manage 5 movements each day.

5x2 is okay. Still low volume. maybe something like 8-10x2 (light weight/short rest/drill technique).

Snatch on days that you front squat so that the cleans don't fatigue you and you can work up to good weight.

day1
snatch
front squat

day2
clean and press
deadlift

what is the loading going to be for other exercises besides the olympic lifts?

Posted by: Bakerboy

Dale suggested alternating 2 sets x 4 reps with 2 sets x 8 reps

two leg movements hip/knee 2 x 4/ 2 x 8
And two push/pull 2 sets 2 x 4/ 2 x 8

Posted by: P-funk

oh, i see.

Posted by: Bakerboy

That's MinO's line.

I would like your opinion. What do you think funk?

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

That's MinO's line.

I would like your opinion. What do you think funk?

I think it is fine.

strength work followed by metabolic work. Now you have to figure out your rest intervals in there. Also, you need to figure out how intense the sets will be.

here is what I have been doing as of late....

If I am up for 3 sets of 5.

i will start with a weight and knock out 5 reps. If it felt good to add weight, I will put on some for the next set and knock out 5. Depending on how that set went, I either drop the weight down a little bit, stay the same, or increase again for a set of 5. The goal is to then continually improve. So, the following week, I might start with the weight I used for the second set and try and progress....or, I might start with the same weight I used in the first week, but increase 5lbs more than the weight i used in the second set and then go from there. I go in 2-3 week phases (I have been using 3 week blocks as of late), then I progress the loading into my next phase of training.

Posted by: Bakerboy

I'm going to take a look at your journal. I have a general idea of what you are doing because I'm always looking at it (your journal)

but I need to study it a bit more... to see the big picture.

I am so used to mixing high reps with low reps and then switching the following workout... a bit like what Dale was saying but more extreme
5-6 reps x 3-4 sets and 8-10 x 3 or 12, 10, 8...

Posted by: P-funk

The best thing you can do is write out phases and what you hope to achieve in the way of adaptations in those phases and then go from there....

Posted by: Bakerboy

Like what: conditioning phase, strength phase etc.?

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Like what: conditioning phase, strength phase etc.?

like conditioning, anatomical adaptations, neural adaptations, etc....

Here is the problem that I now see.......

Before, people just went into the gym and did a workout. they had no plan. no structure. they went in and did whatever.

So, we started telling people "write programs not workouts! have a plan of attack."

So people got on board with that and did the whole 4 week program thing...wokr hard for 3 weeks, back off for a week, then move onto something else.

The problem now is that after those 4 weeks, they end up moving onto something that doesn't really have to do with the previous 4 weeks. The whole idea was to build off the previous phase and move into the next phase and keep progressing and adapting.

For example. I get a new client. He wants to lose fat, gain muscle, etc, etc...The first thing we do is a movement screen to see where he is at and I analyze what he has done prior to deciding to train with me.

I take that information and think about his goals and when he wants to achieve them by. He has a goal set for mid march. So, that would have given us 12 weeks. Now I think in phases and I start by thinking backwards from the goal:

weeks 12-10= anatomical adaption/energy system development
week 9= unload
week 6-8= strength training/neural adaptations
week 3-5= anatomical adaptation/prepare to transition into strength
week 1-2= base building (work capacity)

So now, I just have to fill in the blanks with the workouts.

What did I do?

I started by building a base, which would last really through those first 5 weeks, I only called it anatomical adaptation because I am starting to transition the reps down from 12-15 (in the first two weeks) to 10-12 and then we start to transition towards 8-10 reps in the 4th and 5th week. Week 6 we start to drop down to the 5-8 rep range. This does not mean that I abadon the work capacity stuff that I did in the previous phases. But, it just means that a higher percentage of the work we are doing is going to be strength work, with less emphasis on the upper rep range stuff. Then, we unload week 9 (back up to 15 reps, 2 sets, easy stuff) and then the last 3 weeks we go balls to the wall with our hypertrophy work. Small amount of tension work (strenght work) in the 5-8 rep range, and then we go with more hypertrophy specific work and increase the volume that he is doing and try and push him to really get his energy system to adapt to higher amounts of work. Then unload after that and he should be right where he wants to be.

Posted by: Bakerboy

That make total sense. The problem is that most people don't have someone to help them see the big picture- this is part of what makes you a good trainer. The problem I have is that I want to be an all around athlete but I realize you can't pursue more than one or two goals at a time. Even that I want to improve my snatch and clean and press is a bit of a joke as I am 35 years old and am not likely to compete in a meet any time soon- but I just like O lifting. A lot of trainers might say why don't you just do DB snatches if you don't plan to compete and although I do like that lift I still like the challenge of BB snatches better. I also want to improve my balance/ agility and to make sure that I am as strong on one side of my body as the other so I do unilateral work too. I also want to get stronger and faster and work on my flexibility... Then there is things like my endurance which I also want to improve- but I realize I can't do it all at once. My head spins at night just thinking about this stuff. I have all the drive but I lack in the organization...
I don't know how to fit everything in... I'm not even a trainer and I think I think about this stuff more than a lot of trainers I have talked to...

A friend of mine just started going to the gym again and when I ask him what his program looks like he says: "I don't have one. I just just do whatever." He doesn't think it's that important- but to me it is a huge part of my life.

Posted by: P-funk

well, you just need to prioritize what you want to train for in different phases.

don't serve to many masters.

Posted by: Bakerboy

What about this: A, B, A B, A, (for one month?)

Workout A

1) Snatch RI 30sec
8 sets x 2 reps (light, working on technique)

2) a) Deadlift RI 45sec
5 sets x 3 reps
b) DB bench press RI 45sec
5 sets x 3 reps

3) a) Step-ups, Lunges or Bulgarian squats RI 45sec
3 sets x 5 reps- each leg
b) Chinups or DB rows RI 45sec
12, 10, 8

Workout B

1) Clean and press RI 30sec
8 sets x 2 reps (light, working on technique)

2) a) Front squat RI 45sec
5 sets x 3 reps
b) Pullup RI 45sec
12, 10, 8,

3) a) One arm OH press RI 45sec
5 reps x 3 sets
b) Single legged RDL's RI 45sec
12, 10, 8

Posted by: P-funk

okay, on day 1, why does it say pull up or row? go with one or the other. and why is the loading 12, 10, 8? Or, why is the loading of the step up 3x5? I thought you were alternating reps? Everything looked good up to there. You lost me with that pairing.

on day 2, same thing. that second pairing just got weird. 3 sets of 5 on the press and then 12, 10, 8 on the 1-leg RDL??

Posted by: Bakerboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

What about this: A, B, A B, A, (for one month?)

Workout A

1) Snatch RI 30sec
8 sets x 2 reps (light, working on technique)

2) a) Deadlift RI 45sec
5 sets x 3 reps
b) DB bench press RI 45sec
5 sets x 3 reps

3) a) Bulgarian squats RI 45sec
3 sets x 5 reps- each leg
b) DB rows RI 45sec
12, 10, 8

Workout B

1) Clean and press RI 30sec
8 sets x 2 reps (light, working on technique)

2) a) Front squat RI 45sec
5 sets x 3 reps
b) Pullup RI 45sec
12, 10, 8,

3) a) One arm OH press RI 45sec
5 reps x 3 sets
b) Single legged RDL's RI 45sec
12, 10, 8

I was thinking of switching back and forth chinups one week rows the next week - but I guess I will just pick one, same with the Bulgarians, step- ups and lunges - but in the end I just went for Bulgarians

Can you make a suggestion of what I should do for my reps/ sets in question as I don't really know what the problem is.

Posted by: P-funk

I thought you had a set and rep scheme picked out and now it looks like you want to do something else?

You have all 5 sets of 3 and then you just throw in 12,10,8 on the last exercise. I don't get it?? What are you trying to do with that?

Also, you are starting a program with 5 sets of 3. Doesn't leave you much room to progress, does it?

Posted by: P-funk

maybe something like:

week1-2= 4x10
week3-4= 3x5
week5-6= 3x8
week7-8= 3x3

Posted by: Bakerboy

So for my first week what should I hit for RI wise between 45-60 sec?

week1-2= 4x10 RI- 30 secends between O-lifts , 45 sec rest after my a)b)
exercises with no rest between

week3-4= 3x5
week5-6= 3x8
week7-8= 3x3

Posted by: P-funk

60sec shoud be good. I would rest between exercises. it depends on how you are going to do the sets of 10 intensity wise. if you are really going to push it, then you would want to rest between the exercises. If you are going to try and do more of a circuit thing, then don't rest between the exercises (rest at the end), but know that the weight wont be as heavy because you will be dealing with metabolic factors leading to fatigue.

Posted by: Bakerboy

Okay, thanks a lot P. I appreciate all your help. I'm going to start tomorrow.

I figured out my 10 rep max for my lifts (bench, bulgarians, rows etc. so I have a basic idea of how much to start with...

Posted by: P-funk

good stuff. don't start with the 10RM though. Leave yourself somewhere to go. Start with maybe a 12-13RM and move up from there.

Posted by: Bakerboy

Sounds good.

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My new program

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