Elevated Liver Enzymes [Forum Archive]

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Elevated Liver Enzymes

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Posted by: danzik17

I was getting blood work done to check my health for going on a medication when we found out that my AST, ALT, and Alkaline Phosphatase levels are all high, but especially the AST and ALT are ridiculous.

Values are actual/normal maximum
Alkaline Phosphate = 181/150
AST=133/40
ALT=261/55

Just wondering if anyone here has any idea as what that could mean - I am working with a doctor on this, but outside ideas couldn't hurt to check into. I was taking multi-vitamins, ginseng, and minocycline, all of which I am stopping and then getting re-tested in about 3 weeks.

On a better note, cholesterol levels are exactly 1:1. Kickass.

Posted by: Jodi

Have you used any AAS or other supplements?

Posted by: danzik17

I tried creatine and the free sample of leviathan for a few days but really didn't feel the need to continue them, and that was like 2 months ago either way.

The only supplements I have actively been using are a multi-vitamin, ginseng, fish oil, and whey protein. I was also taking minocycline for my skin.

Posted by: tucker01

How long have you been using monocycline?

There has been links although rare to Liver and kidney problems in long term use.

Posted by: Jodi

Ah yeah, the minocycline is definately your problem then.

Quote:

As minocycline is a widely used drug, clinicians should be aware of the risk of HS, even in the presence of neurological abnormalities. Early warning signs include an acute rash with fever, eosinophilia and elevated liver enzymes. The drug should be immediately and definitively withdrawn for the patient. If used, minocycline should be strictly monitored, especially in African or HIV-infected patients.

Journal of Medical Case Reports | Full text | Minocycline-induced hypersensitivity syndrome presenting with meningitis and brain edema: a case report

Posted by: danzik17

Been using it since around the end of April, and that was what my doctor thought also. As of today I'm discontinuing using it, the multi-vitamin, and ginseng, and in 2-3 weeks I'm going to have more blood work again to hopefully see that the enzymes have gone back to normal.

Posted by: BoneCrusher

Been in the cage with Bas Rutten? Car crashes? Rough landing while base-jumping? Impact trauma also throws your levels out of whack.

Posted by: danzik17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Been in the cage with Bas Rutten? Car crashes? Rough landing while base-jumping? Impact trauma also throws your levels out of whack.

I have been hitting myself in the face with a brick lately....

Posted by: Jodi

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

I have been hitting myself in the face with a brick lately....

Posted by: Blooming Lotus

Alot of those western meds can have some pretty nasty side effects.. that's why I personally prefer to attack things dietarily if I can put it together.
Do you do many bitter or estrigent ph.s and green herbs in your diet???

Chinese med practioners have this red bark and bits ( ??) combo cleanse that I've used before and found quite good . $20 aus for 7-10 days worth of daily 1 lt brew bags. and 1 round usually being all you might need.
worth mentioning anyway

.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

Posted by: danzik17

Nah I don't think I need to do any kind of cleansing, just stopping the medicines I am on will probably set me right.

I will say I really should work harder at eating more vegetables though, I'm sure it would help out a lot. Sadly, that's one of the only remaining parts of my diet where I'm doing terribly

Posted by: Gordo

Been there, frequent use of the cyclines (usually for Acne) can elevate your liver enzymes (or at least they did for both my brother and I). The cyclines can beat up on the liver in some folks. I wouldn't even bother getting worked up over the ginseng and the multi-vit. My money's on the cycline.

Keep this in mind in case you're ever offered accutane. You think your liver is getting fucked with now, just wait. If offered, make sure they take your liver reaction to the cyclines into account before going forward (ie: a specialist should be consulted).

Look into alterantive acne treatments (assuming it's for acne). For me, the cyclines never worked out and you risk turning your teeth blue.
Look more towards diet, play around with ratios and see what starts giving you results. Especially look at things designed to promote insulin rushes (and consider cutting that out. Knock out post workout shakes for instance). I found a higher protein, higher quality fat, low carbohydrate diet did wonders for my skin.

This is all simply opinion, your doc has the last say for the obvious reasons.

Posted by: danzik17

Gordo:

The blood test actually was for accutane, and yes my liver reaction was probably the #1 side-effect I was concerned about.

I don't eat much that promotes insulin spikes at all - my PWO shake is just milk and whey, nothing really in the way of dextrose or anything.

I'm not sure if a really low carb diet will work for me. I remember before I changed my diet again, I was eating more protein and less carbs and I felt like complete crap. Always tired and whatnot.

Jodi:

Since you're the diet expert

, do you have any good resources for eating for clearing up/maintaining healthy skin?

I've already cut out about all sugar and greasy foods minus one weekly or bi-weekly cheat meat for the most part. I do know that eating my vegetables would help a lot, which I'm currently not doing, need to work on that. Not sure if there is anything else I could be doing diet wise.

Posted by: danzik17

I would be willing to to something like a carb cycling diet so that I have a few low carb days in a row or whatever, I'd have to read up on designing a diet like that. I just know that for me, extended low carb diets just don't work, they leave me feeling like garbage.

Posted by: Gordo

Many people who go low carb are scared to increase their good fats appropriately. A lower carb lifestyle can take several weeks of adjustment. You do adjust, it takes time though. Look into the work of Cassandra Forsythe. Over the years I came to the conclusion that the cyclines are used to really only treat the symptoms and not the problem. Docs are way to overloaded to get into the dietary issues that are likely setting off the chain of events that promote acne. In other words they don't have time to consider all the other factors (lifestyle, diet etc...)

Working with a ND might be of benefit in this case (as a suggestion). If you try to "treat acne" but change nothing else, you'll simply continue to have to live with it.

Posted by: Gordo

A had a lot of background talk with Trouble on the subject and the discussion of leaky guts came into play as well. You may want to research that topic alittle and see how it might apply to what you're eating now. Also look for past posts from Trouble; topic: acne ('my skin is disgusting' is one thread that I remember)

Posted by: danzik17

I got some good general information out of those threads, but a lot of the information seems tailored to the individuals though, so I really don't know how to apply it to myself.

There are two things I can work on though: eating more vegetables, getting a better quality sleep.

The sleep thing will improve dramatically in about 7 days; I'm moving off campus, which means I will finally have a single after 3 damn years of having a roommate. He's a good guy and all, been roommates for 2 years and friends for 3 years now, but his night habits continually keep me awake much longer than I would like.

I'll work on ideas for a new diet over the next week or so and post them up, but I'm not going to be adding any supplements for at least 3 weeks. Even though they probably won't affect my liver, I want to let it settle down and become healthy again before I do anything.

Posted by: Blooming Lotus

Have you ever tried this

1. Lipovox was developed accidently by a Hawaiian college student while watching the Oprah Whinfrey show on "How to look 10 Years Younger in 10 Days." She went on a special diet eating 10 "SuperFoods" recommended by renowned Dermatologist Dr. Perricone daily to lose her "Surfing Wrinkles." To her surprise she didn't lose the wrinkles but she lost 11 Pounds in 10 days and her Acne vanished. It was difficult for her to eat the 10 foods daily so she decided to supplement with 10 Highly Concentrated Extracts and her results were identical to the whole foods. Lipovox is now not only all the rave in the weight loss world but also by athletes, actresses, and celebrities wanting perfect skin. All ten "SuperFoods" are contained in highly concentrated extracts plus 3 additional Antioxidants recommended by Dr. Perricone. A 30 day supply retails for $69.00. 94/100 99/100 Aids Acne, Wrinkles, and Detoxifies Body.
PricesExposed.net | An Internet Resource for Diet Pill Truth

I know youre probably snotting on my advice, but take it or leave it. Liver function and hormone balance has kiid of become a speciality of mine.( shrug)
Lipofusion is another good one.. escpecially with the EE and L-tyrosine if youre planning carb cycling.
Whatever. Good luck with your skin girly.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

Posted by: danzik17

Lotus:

I'm not a girl first off, but thanks for the advise. I won't be trying those pills though, at least not right now. There is no actual research that has been done on those pills, and no proof that they actually *do* anything. Not only that, but here is the fourth link down on google - Lipovox Reviewed... Acne, Wrinkle And Weight Loss Fighter?. It states right in there, with several customers backing up the review, that it is a scam and does nothing.

Posted by: Blooming Lotus

Okaay. My liver function results soar up past 75 x normal at times so I just thought I'd share what's helped me out over the past 15- 17 yrs of it, even though you replied how you did. Acne iis hormonal though. Hormonal correction can be re-balanced dietarily. It is my prefered method . I can see what you're not getting but good luck with your chem anyway.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

Posted by: Jodi

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

Gordo:

The blood test actually was for accutane, and yes my liver reaction was probably the #1 side-effect I was concerned about.

I don't eat much that promotes insulin spikes at all - my PWO shake is just milk and whey, nothing really in the way of dextrose or anything.

I'm not sure if a really low carb diet will work for me. I remember before I changed my diet again, I was eating more protein and less carbs and I felt like complete crap. Always tired and whatnot.

Jodi:

Since you're the diet expert

n3 deficiencies are notorious with acne.

Posted by: danzik17

I do supplement 8g of fish oil every day and I believe another 2.5 comes comes out of my whole egg in the morning, so I should be sitting at 10.5g minimum, not including if I happen to eat fish that day or other omega 3 foods.

Posted by: katt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooming Lotus

Alot of those western meds can have some pretty nasty side effects.. that's why I personally prefer to attack things dietarily if I can put it together.
Do you do many bitter or estrigent ph.s and green herbs in your diet???

Chinese med practioners have this red bark and bits ( ??) combo cleanse that I've used before and found quite good . $20 aus for 7-10 days worth of daily 1 lt brew bags. and 1 round usually being all you might need.
worth mentioning anyway

.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

Do you have a link for this?

Posted by: danzik17

Liver enzymes are apparently still elevated even after being off the minocycline for over 3 weeks

Going to probably be seeing a specialist within a week or two, but in the mean time - anyone got any other ideas as to what it might be?

Posted by: Gordo

Did you have a hard workout before going for the test?

How much protein do you get in you daily diet. What's your current body weight?

Posted by: Tatyana

Have you been tested for hepatitis?

What is your blood pressure?

x
x
x

T

Posted by: danzik17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

Did you have a hard workout before going for the test?

How much protein do you get in you daily diet. What's your current body weight?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana

Have you been tested for hepatitis?

What is your blood pressure?

x
x
x

T

I definitely know I don't have hepatitis, blood pressure I have no idea about at all honestly, I haven't had that looked at in a long time (last physical).

Posted by: Tatyana

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

Nope, every blood test was done either before I worked out, or on an off day.

I honestly have no idea what my body weight is since I really stopped caring and go by the mirror now, don't even have a scale. Protein I should be around 200g/day - probably should up that now that I think about it.

I definitely know I don't have hepatitis, blood pressure I have no idea about at all honestly, I haven't had that looked at in a long time (last physical).

How do you 'definitely' know you don't have hepatitis?

Have you ever had a hep B test?

Hep A, NO as this is acute and you would be yellow.

Hep C is also a possibility, and I can't remember much about the other hepatitis viruses.

They are nasty little buggers, highly virulent, easy to catch. Hep B can live in a wee bit of serum for MONTHS

How long have your liver enzymes been elevated for?

Do you have any other symptoms?

ALT and AST are also in muscle tissue, they are not specific to liver.

Alk phos is also present in bone

What was your bilirubin?

It may be that you suffered damage from the medication you were on, and your liver just needs some time to repair itself.

Do you have any other symptoms?

Causes of Elevated ALT or AST Values in Asymptomatic Patients*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Autoimmune hepatitis
B Hepatitis B
C Hepatitis C
D Drugs or toxins
E Ethanol
F Fatty liver
G Growths (i.e., tumors)
H Hemodynamic disorder (congestive heart failure)
I Iron (hemochromatosis), copper (Wilson's disease) or alpha1-antitrypsin deficiency
M Muscle injury

Posted by: danzik17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana

Hepatitis is most commonly distributed as an STD correct? If so, I don't have to worry about that one unfortunately

Now when muscle injury is listed here, could this be a sign of overtraining or is that referring to more shock injury? I haven't been losing strength and have actually been making small gains, so overtraining never really entered my mind.

To be honest, I have no idea how long I've had the condition, I just found out I even had it about a month and a half ago.

Posted by: Tatyana

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

Hepatitis is most commonly distributed as an STD correct? If so, I don't have to worry about that one unfortunately

Hepatitis means 'inflammation of the liver'. It is that most of the usual causes are viral.

Autoimmune hepatitis is not an STD. It would be your own immune system attacking your liver.

You could, theoretically, contract Hep B from kissing (if you has small microfissures-brushing teeth in your mouth) the sucker is that virulent. Seriously, it is scarier than AIDS IMHO.

You haven't had sex in a long time then? ANY sexual contact?

I do find it interesting that people think they would 'know' if they had something cause they don't sleep with 'dirty' people. I am not saying this is you, but it is common.

It is, more than likely, the drug you were taking. Do you know the clearance time for it?

When are you getting tested again?

Did you have any other blood work done? A CBC/FBC? U/E? or Urea and BUN I think they call it in the US

x
x
x

T

Posted by: danzik17

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana

I do find it interesting that people think they would 'know' if they had something cause they don't sleep with 'dirty' people. I am not saying this is you, but it is common.

It is, more than likely, the drug you were taking. Do you know the clearance time for it?

I was taking minocycline, I have no idea about something like a clearance time for it, all I know about it is its purpose. I had been off of it for 3 weeks before my blood test though, I would think that would be plenty.

When are you getting tested again?

Probably within a month.

Did you have any other blood work done? A CBC/FBC? U/E? or Urea and BUN I think they call it in the US

No idea what half of those stand for so I will just say that I had a general metabolic and liver function blood test.

x
x
x

T

Posted by: Tatyana

From pathology textbook:

Drugs may cause damage to hepatocytes, indistinguishable from viral hepatitis, cholestasis by affecting bile production or excretion or other liver dysfunction.

The mechanism of drug-induced damage include direct toxicity to cells, the conversion of the drug to a toxic metabolite and a drug-induced autoimmumne reaction.

Drug-induced autoimmunity usually occurs when the drug or one of its metabolites acts as a hapten (a small molecule that is not immunongenic on its own, but which can bind to another molecule and produce an immune response).

A careful drug history should be taken from anyone with signs and symptoms of liver disease, including drugs taken many months before as there may be a long delay between the administration of the drug and signs of any injury becoming apparent.

Did you tell your doctor about ALL your supplements?

What type of fish oil capsules? Some from liver have high levels of mercury contaminants, which could also insult the liver.......................

Where is your ginseng from? A number of Chinese medicines in the UK have found to be contaminated with other substances. For example, Ma Huang (Ephedra) was contaminated with fenfluramine, resulting in heart valve defects and permanently elevated blood pressure in a few patients......

x
x
x

T

Posted by: danzik17

He knew about all of them, and I did stop taking all of them minus one (the fish oil) so maybe I should take a break on that and try to get n3s from a difference source for a month or two and see if that helps.

The fish oil I was just buying from stop and shop, so the exact brand I have no idea honestly - I can find that out this weekend when I go there to take a look (my last bottle is finished and thrown out). Same deal with the ginseng, though I don't think I'm going to take ginseng anymore period. I was also taking 1 centrum multivitamin per day, which has also been stopped for the past month.

I guess the only variable left really is the fish oil, unless this is a remnant of past medicine/supplements.

Posted by: danzik17

Flaxseed pills perhaps?

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