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Originally Posted by ecwholic
I was playing around with diet stats on fitday and noticed that my diet with a homemade weight gainer would consist of 347 grams of protein, at 160 lbs, if I were to consume this much protein, would it be a problem?
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Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563
If that is per day...its still a little high, but if that is per meal then a total waste.
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Originally Posted by BigDyl
Too much protein = gluconeogenesis.
Although is your on a cycle of AAS, your protein synthesis is 50x higher, so I'm sure you can go much higher then. In any case the jury is still out on the best macronutrient ratio for BB'ing. Some suggest 33/33/33. Others say 40/40/20. It's probably more individual specific. |
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Originally Posted by BigDyl
Too much protein = gluconeogenesis.
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Doesn't gluconeogenesis only occur in a glycogen depleted state? ie ketosis.
Why would the body waste the time to convert excess protein to Glucose if its glycogen stores are full? |
Yeah, that was my understanding too, but I'm also surprised that the body wouldn't utilize such a significant source of energy. |
Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Doesn't gluconeogenesis only occur in a glycogen depleted state? ie ketosis.
Why would the body waste the time to convert excess protein to Glucose if its glycogen stores are full? |
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Doesn't gluconeogenesis only occur in a glycogen depleted state? ie ketosis. Why would the body waste the time to convert excess protein to Glucose if its glycogen stores are full?
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Proteins are broken down to amino acids which are used in the body. Excess would be converted to sugar or fat.
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Originally Posted by ecwholic
Just wanted to know, I heard to up my calories within 2 weeks or so if I stop seeing gains by at least 10 percent or 500 calories...wasn't sure how this worked out, if someone can help me out with that it would be greatly appreciated.
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
I personally don't see a need for 2g of Protein per lb. That is ridiculously expensive.
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Comparing lbs to dollars for different macros is like comparing apples and oranges.
Tell me how many cals are in a 1lb of almonds and how many are in a 1 of turkey breast. Get my point? |
No... I don't.|
Originally Posted by Tier
As long as your ok with a good portion of that turning in to fat
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Originally Posted by Big G
No... I don't.So lets take Peanut butter for instance. what $2 for 1lb, Which is 2600 cals, with a more balance portion of macros Your Chicken is 461 cals per pound. See the cost difference, let alone the effort it takes to eat the same amount of cals. That is the point 1. Protein is still inexpensive compared to a LOT of carbs! Far from it. Compare it to any rice, oats, barley. 2. The National Kidney Association still sees no problem with up to 3g/lb LBM. I don't really care about that study. What would be the point of using 3g/lb? 3. 3oz of chicken (for examaple) instead of 6oz with each meal still sucks. 6 oz of chicken is like 36g of protein, assuming you are eating 6 meals a day that would equal just over 1g/lb. 4. Your body still uses more calories to convert protein to fat than it does to convert carbs to fat. Really a null point. If you think it makes that big of a difference you are fooling yourself i.e. I still see no reason to reduce intake. Balance your diet with Adequate Carbs, Fats, and Protein. You can do whatever you chose. 2g of protein is a waste. |
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Originally Posted by Uthinkso
Does it really turn into fat though?
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Originally Posted by P-funk
this thread gets better by the minute.
there are other issues with that high of protein intake besides just your kidneys. 3g/lb is absurd. |
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Originally Posted by P-funk
3g/lb is absurd.
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Originally Posted by P-funk
there are other issues with that high of protein intake besides just your kidneys.
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
Originally Posted by Big G
No... I don't. So lets take Peanut butter for instance. what $2 for 1lb, Which is 2600 cals, with a more balance portion of macros Your Chicken is 461 cals per pound. See the cost difference, let alone the effort it takes to eat the same amount of cals. That is the point There is no point in comparing fat-calories-per-dollar to protein-calories-per-dollar unless you're some broke-ass-bitch who's wondering how he can buy as many calories as he can for a pocket full of change! In which case fat would be an excellent choice, I agree. BTW, do you really think eating is an "effort"!? 1. Protein is still inexpensive compared to a LOT of carbs! Far from it. Compare it to any rice, oats, barley. Congratulations! You managed to list some carbs that are cheaper than protein. Well done.  In reality however, I don't eat anywhere near as much rice/oats/barley as I do fresh fruit/veg which, incidentally, are actually "ridiculously expensive"!!I can't believe I'm having a debate about whether protein is "ridiculously expensive" or not. If I swapped ½ my protein calories for fresh fruit/veg my grocery bill would go up. If I swapped those calories for rice/oats/barley it would go down. So what? Who cares? 2. The National Kidney Association still sees no problem with up to 3g/lb LBM. I don't really care about that study. What would be the point of using 3g/lb? I didn't invent, conduct or draw conclusions from the National Kidney Foundation's test. I merely referenced it. Why are you asking me the point of doing something that I don't do? 3. 3oz of chicken (for examaple) instead of 6oz with each meal still sucks. 6 oz of chicken is like 36g of protein, assuming you are eating 6 meals a day that would equal just over 1g/lb. OK, well... That's that then! End of discussion! Yesterday's Fitday.com data shows 4,117cal consumed with 359g protein. Looking through my food log, complete proteins per meal average at 44g (which was actually a little higher than normal because I had an oversized portion of turkey at one point). The balance was incomplete proteins but they still get recorded as protein because they are. 4. Your body still uses more calories to convert protein to fat than it does to convert carbs to fat. Really a null point. If you think it makes that big of a difference you are fooling yourself 4calories is 4calories is 4calories. I need 3,500-4,000 to keep from losing weight depending on if I'm training that day or not. I'm aiming for 4,250 at the moment because I'm bulking, but I'm not anticipating much, if any, of that to become body fat. I eat when I'm hungry. I get hungry every 2-3hours. It's that simple. i.e. I still see no reason to reduce intake. Balance your diet with Adequate Carbs, Fats, and Protein. You can do whatever you chose. 2g of protein is a waste. 20%fat, 45%carbs, 35% protein isn't balanced? I figured that was a pretty balanced ratio. |
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Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563
3g/lb is crazy....I couldn't eat 630g protein per day (going off LBM)....that would mean eating HUGE meals or hourly meals....that would be crazy. I can't see doing that without gaining fat.
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Originally Posted by KelJu
Way too high! Eat less protein, and more fruit, slow burning carbs, and veggies.
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Have you even seen my food log!?
Originally Posted by IainDaniel  Originally Posted by Big G No... I don't. So lets take Peanut butter for instance. what $2 for 1lb, Which is 2600 cals, with a more balance portion of macros Your Chicken is 461 cals per pound. See the cost difference, let alone the effort it takes to eat the same amount of cals. That is the point There is no point in comparing fat-calories-per-dollar to protein-calories-per-dollar unless you're some broke-ass-bitch who's wondering how he can buy as many calories as he can for a pocket full of change! In which case fat would be an excellent choice, I agree. BTW, do you really think eating is an "effort"!? Sure there is, maybe not for you but there are other people here learning as well. At 4000+ cals a day of clean eating, yes I do think eating is a chore. 1. Protein is still inexpensive compared to a LOT of carbs! Far from it. Compare it to any rice, oats, barley. Congratulations! You managed to list some carbs that are cheaper than protein. Well done. In reality however, I don't eat anywhere near as much rice/oats/barley as I do fresh fruit/veg which, incidentally, are actually "ridiculously expensive"!!I can't believe I'm having a debate about whether protein is "ridiculously expensive" or not. If I swapped ½ my protein calories for fresh fruit/veg my grocery bill would go up. If I swapped those calories for rice/oats/barley it would go down. So what? Who cares? Why do you skip on Oats, Sweet Potatoes, Red Potatoes, Barley, Rice in favour of fruits? 2. The National Kidney Association still sees no problem with up to 3g/lb LBM. I don't really care about that study. What would be the point of using 3g/lb? I didn't invent, conduct or draw conclusions from the National Kidney Foundation's test. I merely referenced it. Why are you asking me the point of doing something that I don't do? I am saying that 2 g / lb of protein is waste. Why not eat something that will benefit you, some more fats, ie omega 3 fatty acids. 3. 3oz of chicken (for examaple) instead of 6oz with each meal still sucks. 6 oz of chicken is like 36g of protein, assuming you are eating 6 meals a day that would equal just over 1g/lb. OK, well... That's that then! End of discussion! Yesterday's Fitday.com data shows 4,117cal consumed with 359g protein. Looking through my food log, complete proteins per meal average at 44g (which was actually a little higher than normal because I had an oversized portion of turkey at one point). The balance was incomplete proteins but they still get recorded as protein because they are. I am not sure what your point is here. 4. Your body still uses more calories to convert protein to fat than it does to convert carbs to fat. Really a null point. If you think it makes that big of a difference you are fooling yourself 4calories is 4calories is 4calories. I need 3,500-4,000 to keep from losing weight depending on if I'm training that day or not. I'm aiming for 4,250 at the moment because I'm bulking, but I'm not anticipating much, if any, of that to become body fat. I eat when I'm hungry. I get hungry every 2-3hours. It's that simple. So if you are bulking they why even bother with the thermal properties of digestion? You like to complicate things too much. Eating shouldn't be that difficult. i.e. I still see no reason to reduce intake. Balance your diet with Adequate Carbs, Fats, and Protein. You can do whatever you chose. 2g of protein is a waste. 20%fat, 45%carbs, 35% protein isn't balanced? I figured that was a pretty balanced ratio. I agree. You could up the Fat intake a little. |
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
I looked at you fitday, and your carb are decent, but you eat too much fruit.
For one to criticize about 4 cups of milk and the sugar intake, check the amount of sugar from all the fruit in your diet. |
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Originally Posted by Big G
40g complete proteins per meal waaay to high... really? Honestly? Sure?
More fruit!!? Have you even seen my food log!? |
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Originally Posted by Big G
OMG, I know, I know! That's what I said!
I posted a thread on here not very long ago asking about low glycemic fruits because I was getting bored of using only dried peaches & cherries in my muesli (i.e. oats,nuts,dried fruit & milk, eaten like cereal). You replied by saying "Why?" and when I explained that I was concerned about the sugar content Jodi replied with "For bulking, eat any fruit you want." That's when I started eating at least one piece of fruit with every meal. I like fruit. I haven't had much over the past year because I was concerned about the sugar content. Truth be told though, I haven't noticed any significant adverse effects on my physique. I didn't start getting fat or anything. I just recently upped my calories again becuase I seem to be absorbing everything I put in myself. |
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Originally Posted by Big G
ecw... I already discussed this in great length in reply to your PM. Stop thinking so much and just eat! if you start getting fat eat less. if yuo're not getting fat eat more. This isn't freakin' rocket science here!
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Originally Posted by IainDaniel
At 4000+ cals a day of clean eating, yes I do think eating is a chore
Hmm... wierd. I get hungry. I eat. I never thought of it as an effort. 4,000+cal slides down just fine for me. Why do you skip on Oats, Sweet Potatoes, Red Potatoes, Barley, Rice in favour of fruits? I do eat all those things but at work people complain about the smell of food when it's not lunchtime. And, if I'm making a quick turkey sandwich (for example) an apple looks much better sat on the side of my plate than half a cold baked yam. I'd be just as happy to say "screw the apple" and have some walnuts though. I'm not fussy. I just figured more fresh fruit/veg was the name of the game. I did ask first. You were there when Jodi said "Eat up!" like I said above. I am saying that 2 g / lb of protein is waste. Why not eat something that will benefit you, some more fats, ie omega 3 fatty acids. Hold on. I thought we already concluded that 40g complete protein per meal was perfectly fine. If I get an extra 5g from some brussel sprouts surely you don't want me to eat less steak! I am not sure what your point is here. Same point as above... If I get an extra 5g from some brussel sprouts surely you don't want me to eat less steak! So if you are bulking they why even bother with the thermal properties of digestion? You like to complicate things too much. Eating shouldn't be that difficult. Eating isn't difficult and I don't like to complicate things too much. Those are both silly statements to make. I don't know anyone that enjoys complicating things too much. Why would anyone like doing that? I mentioned the thermic effect of food because it's another example of an occassion when you may eat 100cal (for example) but your body uses 40cal in breaking down the food so you only get 60cal out of it. If and when protein is converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis (in ketosis or otherwise) the body uses energy to do this. Hence you could eat 100cal of protein but, by the time the body has used up 20cal converting it to glucose you're only getting 80cal out of it. It's similar in that regard, that's all. You could up the Fat intake a little. That's fine. I don't care. Are you suggesting 25f:45c:30p, 30f,50c,20p, 25f,50c,25p...? Bare in mind those pesky brussel sprouts (again, just for example) have a fair amount of protein in them too (albeit incomplete, fitday still includes those #s in its percentages) . |
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Originally Posted by ecwholic
Whoops, just saw the PM before the post. I've liked the gains I've seen in the 2 weeks doing the bulk in the gym and with my body so far. I'd say so far its been 2-3 lbs or so in the 2 week period.
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Originally Posted by Big G
Hey! It was the national kidney foundation's tests, not mine. .
Care to elaborate/educate? Pretty please. |
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