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Clen


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Posted by: Leslie2196

I am sure this was already a thread in the past- but I was wondering about clen. I know it is a fat burner and has similiar effects to the E/C/A stack. I have heard the cycle is best 2 wks on 2wks off and also 2days on 2days off? Is it worth it? Not sure if this is something that should be used pre comp or at all. If anyone has any input about this I'd appreciate it......
Thanks!


Posted by: craig777

If you are talking about the prescription clenbuterol I don't have any knowledge, but my opinion would be to get your diet going, continue with the weights and cardio and it will happen. There are some good over the counter E/C/A stacks, I currently am taking Clenbutrx by VPX sports. It really gets me going. Gopro can suggest some good ones also.


Posted by: Duncan

I have just started to read about Clen as I have a friend getting some in Mexico. I have found that the 2 day on/2 day off cycle will not work due to the half life of the drug and that during your 2 weeeks off you should take ECA. Other than that I have no idea.


Posted by: The_Chicken_Daddy

Clenbuterol isn't worth the hassle of getting it.

Firstly, it'll slowly shut down your body's mechanism for converting T4 to T3 (it does something to the receptors or to the enzyme 5-D or something, just like ECA does).

Secondly, it induces insulin resistance (or reduces insulin sensitivity, whichever way you wanna look at it).

Thirdly, Duncan, Clen and Ephedrine both hit the beta-2 receptors hard. What is the point in taking 2 weeks off clen to let the receptors upregulate when ECA is just gonna hit them hard again?!

When you come off, don't touch ECA.

There's a compound you can take that stops the downregulation of the receptors so you can essentially stay on clen for longer, but i've totally forgotten it's name. I'm sure it begins with a "K"

But anyways...


Posted by: gopro

Clenbuterol is an interesting drug. It seems to work incredibly for periods of about 2-3 weeks, but then, the fat burning effects just stops.

Unlike ephedrine, clen is a "specific" beta 2 agonist, fitting almost perfectly into the receptor site. It stimulates the receptors so well, the body will burn fat very fast. However, being that our bodie's are masters of homeostasis, the body will quickly downregulate the receptors and desensitize them to clen.

Another problem is that clen will slow the rate of T4 to T3 conversion...not good. So, in order for clen to work for a longer amount of time, you must find a way to keep T3 levels optimal.

You see, T3 increases the number of beta receptors on fat and muscle cells, which in turn increases the effect of clen.

This is what leads to the ever popular clen/T3 stack. There is another trick to helping to keep T3 levels high by using phosphates, but that is more complicated and does not work as well as straight T3.

Interestingly enough, ephedrine has been shown to increase levels of T3 after several weeks of use. It also does not downregulate the beta receptor site like clen does.

One trick I have my clients use is to take the E/C stack for about 8 weeks before a show, and then switch to clen for the last 2-3 weeks (this is if they wish to avoid T3 supplementation). The clen seems to have an even more potent effect through raising the T3 to T4 ratio from ephedrine...plus, the receptors will still be affected by the clen even after 8 weeks of E/C use.

Overall I think you can do just as well on E/C as with clen, although clen/T3 is hard to beat...but do you want to risk the side effects?

I manage BF levels of under 4% on just E/C along with a few other tricks...plus diet and cardio. I may have to work harder than the illegal drug user, but I feel its worth it.


Posted by: Duncan

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

Thirdly, Duncan, Clen and Ephedrine both hit the beta-2 receptors hard. What is the point in taking 2 weeks off clen to let the receptors upregulate when ECA is just gonna hit them hard again?!
T-mag has an aswer for this, but I forgot it and cannot find it on their site. I will search again later.


Posted by: Leslie2196

Now I am all confused


Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally posted by Leslie2196
Now I am all confused
You are far to pretty to be confused...I know that makes no sense, but you look great in your little pic! Anyway, forget the clen...just go with a good thermogenic stack, cardio, training, and the right diet.

There are also other supplements that can help. Let me know if you have specific questions.


Posted by: Leslie2196

thanks gopro- actually after reading everything again I have a semi better understanding...


Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally posted by Leslie2196
thanks gopro- actually after reading everything again I have a semi better understanding...
You are welcome


Posted by: The_Chicken_Daddy

Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan


T-mag has an aswer for this, but I forgot it and cannot find it on their site. I will search again later.
Does the answer involve the use of another compound? or was that your way of trying to say i am incorrect? (because i know i'm not).


Posted by: LAM

hmmm...do you think it's a BioTest product ! lol


Posted by: Mifody

ketotifen is what you can take with the clen so it works for longer than 2-3 weeks. also clen has good anti-catabolic properties, much more than e/c. theres also superclen which is clen and ketotifen and maybe something else.. all mixed in one.

thats all very vague.. but perhaps gopro can elaborate on some or all of it


Posted by: gopro

The trouble with clen is twofold...there is the reduction of the active thyroid hormone, T3, caused by clen, and the down regulation of the receptors.

The addition of the T3 drug Cytomel will help with the first problem but not the second. This is where the aforementioned Ketotifen comes in. Ketotifen, trade name Zatiden, is actually and antihistamine drug that can up regulate the beta 2 receptor when taken in the proper dosage.

The dosage for Ketotifen is about ten 1 mg capsules each day for every 60 mcg of clen taken.

Super clen is a combo of clen/T3/ketotifen...a very effecctive product! But not without side effects!


Posted by: The_Chicken_Daddy

Ah!

Ketotifen!

That's the one!

I knew it started with a 'K'.


Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Ah!

Ketotifen!

That's the one!

I knew it started with a 'K'.

See how you need me, LOL.


Posted by: The_Chicken_Daddy

Mifody mentioned it first.


Posted by: gopro

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Mifody mentioned it first.
Yup, I see you are right! Sorry Mifody!


Posted by: Purdue Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopro
The dosage for Ketotifen is about ten 1 mg capsules each day for every 60 mcg of clen taken.
Sorry to bring up such an old thread, but.......

The Ketotifen sold at IBE is 60mL @ 1mg/mL, so that would only last 6 days. Are the caps and the liquid equivalent doses? Would it be cheaper to get some benadryl to clear out the receptors?


Posted by: Purdue Power

Thanks Pirate...always there. You're such a gem.


Posted by: Purdue Power

I bought some generic benadril at WalMart tonight. It was $1.48/box of 24caps at 25mg of diphenhydramine a piece. I will take 3 caps a night towards the middle of my next Clen cycle, unless it is advised to go ahead and clear out my receptors now before I start my next cycle.


Posted by: musclepump

When are you starting your next cycle? Didn't you just finish a pretty heavy one?


Posted by: Purdue Power

No, I finished a 2 week cycle of Clen with standard dosage. I am a week into my ECY that I am going to run for about 2 1/2 weeks and then go back to the Clen. I didn't know if I should go ahead and clear out the receptors prior to starting back up on the Clen or wait until I am already into it.


Posted by: gopro

From my experience with prepping competitors, Benedryl is a good option for prolonging clen's effects. That said, it does not work quite as well as real Ketotofin it seems.



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