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Originally Posted by ab2al2
lurker's advice is also sound, but if you are trying to bulk up - it may be wise to do more reps and fewer sets (ex 3 to 4 sets of 8-12 reps) for compund movements. |
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Originally Posted by ab2al2
lurker's advice is also sound, but if you are trying to bulk up - it may be wise to do more reps and fewer sets (ex 3 to 4 sets of 8-12 reps) for compund movements. |
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Originally Posted by lurker1
Not enough frequency. I suggest a 4 day upper/lower split. Something like:
Monday-upper-heavy Chest-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 Back-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 Shoulders/Traps-1 movement 5x5 or 4x6 Bis/Tris- 1 movement 5x5 or 3x8 Tuesday-lower-heavy Quads-2 movements 8x3 Hams/Pos. chain-2 movements 8x3 or 5x5 Calves-1/2 movements 5x10-12 Wednesday Off Thursday-upper-moderate Chest-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Back-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Shoulder/Traps-1 @ 3x8 Bis/Tris-1 @ 3x8 Friday-lower-moderate Quad dominant-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Hip dominant-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Calves-1 @ 5x12-15 Sat and Sun-off You'll find this will work much better than just hitting a group once a week. Now you will have to do your homework and get adequate nutrition and rest, but adopting a routine more like what I posted will prove to be more rewarding and more fun. Enjoy. |
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Originally Posted by jinks
is this ur first time at a gym, if so i would start with more reps,reps of around 15,this will encourage growth and help get ur muscles into a growth "mode", i would also keep your sets at 3, there is no reason to do more sets than three but no less than 1.
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Originally Posted by jinks
is this ur first time at a gym, if so i would start with more reps,reps of around 15,this will encourage growth and help get ur muscles into a growth "mode", i would also keep your sets at 3, there is no reason to do more sets than three but no less than 1.
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
im kinda cofused about these " pushing " and " pulling " excerises but i will read the stickys.
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Originally Posted by lurker1
That is a misconception. There is no reason to use a 3x15 scheme just because he's a beginner. This does not encourage growth the same as fewer reps more sets with 80-85% 1rep max. The 3x10 3x15 dogma has been laid to rest a long time ago, yet people are still hanging on to it.
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
im kinda cofused about these " pushing " and " pulling " excerises but i will read the stickys.
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Originally Posted by Gazhole
True that higher reps doesnt have bearing on hypertrophy, but sticking to relatively low intensity and higher reps for an ABSOLUTE beginner is a very good idea to build up motor patterns, and general base conditioning.
If you take a beginner and put them on 6-8 reps straight away, they will more than likely fuck up. Not sure if that applies here, i dont think he's stated his exact level of experience yet. What i class as intermediate is around where im at after 4 years of training. And only then a middle intermediate. Everything is relative for each person. Thats the downside of absolute advice, especially on message board - you cant actually assess where thus guy is. |
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Originally Posted by Gazhole
True that higher reps doesnt have bearing on hypertrophy, but sticking to relatively low intensity and higher reps for an ABSOLUTE beginner is a very good idea to build up motor patterns, and general base conditioning.
If you take a beginner and put them on 6-8 reps straight away, they will more than likely fuck up. Not sure if that applies here, i dont think he's stated his exact level of experience yet. What i class as intermediate is around where im at after 4 years of training. And only then a middle intermediate. Everything is relative for each person. Thats the downside of absolute advice, especially on message board - you cant actually assess where thus guy is. |
, isnt that a lot of sets, i usually try to keep my workout at the hour mark, i heard if you workout more than an hour your body will enter a catabolic state and break down muscle, how long does this type of workout usually take you ? |
Originally Posted by AKIRA
Spoken like a prodigy. I was going to chime in, but that says it clearly. P-Funk I think made a sticky on this...or Cowpimp. "Designing a Routine" I believe it is.
Anyway, by the looks of his first idea, Id say its best to call him an absolute newbie. Better to be safe than sorry. |
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
quick question tho, i noticed that in the upper body workout were looking at 40 sets total
, isnt that a lot of sets, i usually try to keep my workout at the hour mark, i heard if you workout more than an hour your body will enter a catabolic state and break down muscle, how long does this type of workout usually take you ? thanks |
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Originally Posted by AKIRA
Where? I dont see one that high.
And yes youre a newb. Look at my gallery. I am in between moderate - very experienced |
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
see what i put in bold...
Monday-upper-heavy Chest-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 ( 10 sets ) Back-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 (10 sets) Shoulders/Traps-1 movement 5x5 or 4x6 (10sets ) Bis/Tris- 1 movement 5x5 or 3x8 (10 sets) unless im reading his routine wrong it looks like 40 sets. ok im a noob for sure but i dont think 15 reps/exercises will help me gain mass. |
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Originally Posted by lurker1
If you feel that 20sets for chest and back are too much, you can certainly pick just one exercise for each to start. Now the shoulder/trap part I include as one entity. Either you press or you pull for this. High/face pulls are great for rear delts and traps.
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
cool man, i will need to get 1 min rest to pull off all those sets, im hitting the gym right now ill see how it goes.
thanks. |
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
see what i put in bold...
Monday-upper-heavy Chest-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 ( 10 sets ) Back-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 (10 sets) Shoulders/Traps-1 movement 5x5 or 4x6 (10sets ) Bis/Tris- 1 movement 5x5 or 3x8 (10 sets) unless im reading his routine wrong it looks like 40 sets. ok im a noob for sure but i dont think 15 reps/exercises will help me gain mass. |
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
see what i put in bold...
Monday-upper-heavy Chest-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 ( 10 sets ) Back-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 (10 sets) Shoulders/Traps-1 movement 5x5 or 4x6 (10sets ) Bis/Tris- 1 movement 5x5 or 3x8 (10 sets) unless im reading his routine wrong it looks like 40 sets. ok im a noob for sure but i dont think 15 reps/exercises will help me gain mass. |
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Originally Posted by lurker1
On the heavy days it is fine to get 90sec rest between sets. You want to limit rest to 60sec on the lighter days.
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Originally Posted by Scarface30
okay correct me if I am wrong but from what I am gathering you did that 40 set push routine?! take AKIRA's advice, that is way too excessive, especially if it took you over an hour. 20 sets max for chest...your going to be burnt out in no time.
also don't measure the effectiveness of your training by how sore you get. |
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Originally Posted by Gazhole
Id be less concerned with overtraining and more concerned with outright shoulder injury with that amount of pushing volume.
But whatever, you asked our advice, received it, and chose not to follow it. Theres little more we can do here. Good luck to you. You obviously know what you're talking about |
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Originally Posted by lurker1
Not enough frequency. I suggest a 4 day upper/lower split. Something like:
Monday-upper-heavy Chest-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 Back-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 Shoulders/Traps-1 movement 5x5 or 4x6 Bis/Tris- 1 movement 5x5 or 3x8 Tuesday-lower-heavy Quads-2 movements 8x3 Hams/Pos. chain-2 movements 8x3 or 5x5 Calves-1/2 movements 5x10-12 Wednesday Off Thursday-upper-moderate Chest-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Back-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Shoulder/Traps-1 @ 3x8 Bis/Tris-1 @ 3x8 Friday-lower-moderate Quad dominant-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Hip dominant-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Calves-1 @ 5x12-15 |
Holy Shit
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Originally Posted by lurker1
If I can chime in once again...there's nothing wrong with the workout itself. If he's going to use a template like that, he will need to tweak it to suit his abilitites and needs. 10 sets for back/chest may be excessive for him. However, he can certainly just pick one exercise and do 5-6 sets and still get results since he is doing it twice a week. That is also the reason there isn't much more direct shoulder work. Now, as far as shoulder injury, he will to balance his pulling with pushing, meaning rows and high pulls will be a part of the back exercises.
The template is one that I had great success with. I have been lifting for many years and found this type of split to be superior to other splits. It's simple and efficient. |
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Originally Posted by AKIRA
Soooo which one do you recommend now? Cuz in the first template you offered him, you gave a +- 39 set upper day...then hes got ANOTHER upper in the same week.
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Originally Posted by AKIRA
Soooo which one do you recommend now? Cuz in the first template you offered him, you gave a +- 39 set upper day...then hes got ANOTHER upper in the same week.
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Originally Posted by sakbar
Hi Lurker1,
How much time would you take to wrap up each workout mentioned above? Presently I am on a following four-day split: Monday: Shoulders and Forearms Tuesday: Legs Wednesdays: Off Thursdays: Back and Biceps Fridays: Chest and Triceps With Lurker1's split, I'd be training each body part twice a week but with the following differences: 1. Much, much lesser work on biceps and triceps 2. Upper day would be around 30 sets(!) as against the lower days, which go 21 sets and which is the norm for me. Also, can one effectively squeeze in all compounds - bench press, deadlifts, military press - in one workout? 3. No direct forearm work 4. Each major body part gets trained twice per week Please advice, SakBar |
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
I built myself using the big three and adding in military presses and 1 set of curls and 1 set of close grip benches. Compounds put the mass on, not a ton of exercises! Thats just spinning the wheels.
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Originally Posted by sakbar
Agreed juggernaut, but then how frequently do you do these six exercises per week? And what is the intensity level in each session? After a couple of months won't the same routine day in and day out begin to get monotonous?
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Originally Posted by lurker1
Not enough frequency. I suggest a 4 day upper/lower split. Something like:
Monday-upper-heavy Chest-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 Back-2 movements 5x5 or 8x3 Shoulders/Traps-1 movement 5x5 or 4x6 Bis/Tris- 1 movement 5x5 or 3x8 Tuesday-lower-heavy Quads-2 movements 8x3 Hams/Pos. chain-2 movements 8x3 or 5x5 Calves-1/2 movements 5x10-12 Wednesday Off Thursday-upper-moderate Chest-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Back-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Shoulder/Traps-1 @ 3x8 Bis/Tris-1 @ 3x8 Friday-lower-moderate Quad dominant-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Hip dominant-2 @ 4x6 or 3x8 Calves-1 @ 5x12-15 Sat and Sun-off You'll find this will work much better than just hitting a group once a week. Now you will have to do your homework and get adequate nutrition and rest, but adopting a routine more like what I posted will prove to be more rewarding and more fun. Enjoy. |
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Originally Posted by cheesegrater
in the quad dominant/ hip dominant...where do squats fall into? and what would be other exercises for hip dominant or quad dominant?
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
squats are Quad Dominant
heres my updated routine... let me know if there are any issues with the exercises Routine Monday-heavy Upper body Flat Barbell Bench Press 5x5 Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 5X5 Pullups 5x5 Barbell Rows 5X5 Dumbbell Shoulder Press 5X5 Overhead Dumbbell Extension 5X5 Preacher Curl 5X5 Tuesday Heavy Lower body Quads-2 movements 8x3 Squats 5X5 Leg Press : 5X5 Leg extension 5X5 Stiff Legged Deadlifts 5X5 Hamstring Curls 5X5 Calve Raises 5x10-12 Wednesday Off Thursday Moderate Upper body barbell Bench Press 3x8 Incline Dumbbell Press 3x8 Pullups 3x8 Dumbbell Rows 3X8 Shrugs 3X8 Tricep Extension 3X8 Bicep Curl 3X8 Friday-lower-moderate Squats 4X8 Deadlifts 4X8 Leg extensions :4X8 Ham curl : 4X8 Calve Raises 5X12 Sat (Abs) |
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
I saw a similar routine like this one on t-nation. I was thinking of giving it a shot. Has some merit to it, but I would change a couple of things. Like substitute tricep ext. with close grip bench press, Start off with incline bench press instead of flat bench press, regular barbell curls for preacher curls, add in barbell rows instead of dumbbell rows, reduce the arm work, lower the reps on the calf work and go heavier, deads twice weekly? Youre going to need more than a rest day with all of the shit you'll be doing. Abs on Saturday is wasteful.
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
i like the close grip bench press idea, and the preacher curl, i have some questions regarding doing the incline press first why is that?? as for deadlifts im kinda used to stiff legged from my experience its not as bad as regular deadlifts but if its too hectic i will drop 1 of them, but what do you suggest for abs when do i train them ?
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Originally Posted by AKIRA
What does that mean? Are you saying youre more comfortable with one over the other?
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
i like the close grip bench press idea, and the preacher curl, i have some questions regarding doing the incline press first why is that?? as for deadlifts im kinda used to stiff legged from my experience its not as bad as regular deadlifts but if its too hectic i will drop 1 of them, but what do you suggest for abs when do i train them ?
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
ya, im more used to stiff legged as i did them more, i hate deadlifts because the bar keeps on hitting my knees.
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
i like the close grip bench press idea, and the preacher curl, i have some questions regarding doing the incline press first why is that?? as for deadlifts im kinda used to stiff legged from my experience its not as bad as regular deadlifts but if its too hectic i will drop 1 of them, but what do you suggest for abs when do i train them ?
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
I have had GREAT success with 2x per week training. Not like that regimen, but similar. I like training "near overtraining". It keeps me on my toes, and I get two weeks of decompression at the end of the cycle. Plus, the growth is damn near miraculous.
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Originally Posted by sakbar
When I started training a few months ago, I followed the Basic Training Split suggested by Arnold Schwarzenegger in his Encyclopedia, which is:
Folks at the gym scoffed, saying that I am largely over training. Most of the articles and magazines I read suggested that one should train each body part no more than once each week - so I shifted to a four-day split, training each body part once a week. Now with lurker1's training program I seem to have come in a circle, except that there are more rest days included with this program. Before I plunge, I'd like your feedback: I have been regularly working out for about eight months now. Will training body parts twice a week, amount to overtraining? I do intend to incorporate all that I have read here - periodization, alternate between volume and intensity, etc. Please let me know! |
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Originally Posted by juggernaut
I've never been one to bulk in the typical sense of the word. I gain weight very easily just by manipulating my cardio. When I attempted to increase my food intake, it's always been a pain in the ass to lose it for a contest.
That being said, I would say that a realistic gain per week would be .5 to a 2 lb gain. Everything else will be just fat. And that's being generous. |
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Originally Posted by skinnyguy1986
Im 5.9 150 lbs heres my new program im gonna use this till the summer to bulk up, what do you all think??
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