Clemens reportedly named in Mitchell report (AP) [Forum Archive]

-->

Pages: 1

Clemens reportedly named in Mitchell report (AP)

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: RSS Feed Robot

AP - Judgment day arrived for baseball's steroids era, with the Mitchell report set to be released and posted on the Internet for all to see. The first name to emerge Thursday was seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens.

Read More...

Posted by: I Are Baboon

What a buttknuckle.

Posted by: P-funk

who cares?

Posted by: I Are Baboon

America does, you commie.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Good thing I live in Canuck-land cause I don't give a shit.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

RSS Feed Robot cares about this subject. Show him (or her?) some respect.

Posted by: IainDaniel

RSS Feed Robot can lick my balls.

Posted by: cheesegrater

i wonder what the disparity between condemnation/ support of the mitchell report would be on this board versus the general public/ sports fan's viewpoints...

Posted by: largepkg

I think most of us understand the competitive nature of sports and the drive it requires to do what some can't/won't.

Posted by: NordicNacho

Clemens is a peice of shit who will now be barred from the hall of fame.

Hope it was worth it.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

It'll be interesting to see the fallout from this report. I'm curious as to how bad a hit Clemens' reputation is going to take.

Posted by: cheesegrater

Quote:

Originally Posted by largepkg

I think most of us understand the competitive nature of sports and the drive it requires to do what some can't/won't.

uhh, yeah...

anyway, it's interesting that of all the big names, none of them are the players who are "carrying" the league right now. Are we supposed to believe that when Bonds, McGwire, Canseco, Clemens, Tejada, Gagne, Giambi etc were doing things nobody had ever done they were dirty, but now, when Pujols, ARod, Ortiz, Santana, Manny etc are doing things nobody has ever done, they're clean?

Posted by: IainDaniel

Clemens is still awesome.

Posted by: cheesegrater

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesegrater

just to be clear, i don't necessarily care that X great player is doing roids, because i think they all are, so X player isn't cheating. Just be open about it. If nobody was doing drugs, then i'd feel cheated by watching Bonds. But under the assumption that if 100% of players are doing drugs that the disparity between the great and the good remains the same, Bonds is still the best since Babe Ruth.

i can't be convinced that ARod isn't on it, or Pujols, or any pitcher throwing 102mph....or that Lance Armstrong wasn't taking whatever cyclists take, but if every cyclist was doping, and his main competitors have all been implicated, does his doping tarnish his record? What kills me is that we're expected to believe two years after he's nearly dead and depleted from chemotherapy, he wins 7 tours in a row, clean, against a field riddled with drug use.

btw, if there were open and comprehensive steroid/ HGH tests in the NFL, i'm putting the over under at 99%, and i dont think that'd be a shock value number.

Posted by: WillBrink

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSS Feed Robot

Here's what I wrote about the issue after talking to Senetor Mitchell's group:

As some of you who follow this issue, you may recall that pro baseball tasked George Mitchell, Senate Majority Leader and ex senator from ME, to look into the “steroid problem.” I was interviewed by Senator Mitchell’s group about this issue, though I have nothing directly to do with pro baseball or any pro baseball players. They asked my opinion on what could be done, how prevalent did I think steroid use was in pro baseball, did I think it was higher then in pro football, and a bunch of others, but you get the idea. So what did I tell them? The major points I made to them was this:

• If they truly want to make a dent in the use of steroids in pro baseball, they will need to initiate true random testing as the IOC does (though I suspect the union would never go for that)

• I made it clear to them that the people who develop these “designer” steroids and advise the athletes in the use of these compounds, are at least 10 steps ahead of the testers, so drug use will always be a part of pro sports. Some drugs, such as Growth Hormone, can’t be tested for at all! Neither can a whole mess of different drugs.

• Relating to the last comments above, I told them that as long as we pay grown men millions of dollars to hit or catch a ball and view them as heroes and demigods, there would always be drugs in pro sports.

• Finally, I told them the real problem in baseball is not steroids, it’s the use of amphetamines also known as “greenies” in baseball circles. Times Sports Columnist Gary Shelton, recently wrote an article that spilled the beans. His article was called “Steroids hoopla overshadowing deadlier drug” and was Published November 18, 2005. As Mr. Shelton put it:

“… in witch-hunting season, 'roids are all the rage. Congressmen are talking about them. Ballplayers are talking about them. Except for Mark McGwire and the person in charge of Rafael Palmeiro's B-12 shot, everybody is talking about them. In baseball, steroids have become the fashionable outrage.”

Mr. Shelton summed it up well when he stated:

“Amphetamines are a bigger problem than steroids. They are a greater danger. And, yes, the ban against them is going to have more of an affect.” How common is the use of amphetamines in pro baseball? According to Shelton:

“All you can say about amphetamine [in professional baseball] use is that it is as common as a fungo bat and, pretty much, is accepted as easily. Two years ago, Gwynn suggested that as many as 50 percent of position players used amphetamines to get ready for games. Chad Curtis, the former Yankees outfielder, says the number is 85 percent. Caminiti said there were only one or two players per team who didn't take them…"

What about other sports who have faced this problem? He states:

“The NFL tests for amphetamines, as do the NBA and the NHL and the Olympics. Baseball never has. In baseball, it often has been a bigger disgrace for a player not to take amphetamines than to take them, and sometimes, it seems the key statistic might not be a batting average but a dosage. Turns out, this might be real Green Monster in the game.”

So what we have here is a rampant use of a much more dangerous drug than steroids that has apparently been ignored by the powers that be and the public in general. So what do I think of drug use in sports in general? I take a fairly Libertarian view of such things. Unless we as a society are willing and able to change our paradigm, drug use will remain an issue. If we continue to view athletes as defacto heroes and pay them tens of millions of dollar salaries, then they will continue to look for ways to get an edge over their teammates to get the big contracts. The problem is only going to get worse. Once gene manipulation, gene doping, and other tricks that are right around the corner arrive, there wont be any way to catch them, test them, or stop them. I don’t know what the answer is (drug tested and non drug tested leagues?) but I do know the current policies for dealing with drugs in pro sports have not worked and never will.

Posted by: Triple Threat

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

RSS Feed Robot cares about this subject. Show him (or her?) some respect.

RSS Feed Robot is getting to be quite the post whore, no?

Posted by: Dale Mabry

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

drug tested and non drug tested leagues?

Which one do you think more people will go to? Actually, let me rephrase the question, WNBA or NBA?

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

RSS Feed Robot can lick my balls.

The Robot has a higher ranking than you, so you've been pawned.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesegrater

huh, yeah...

anyway, it's interesting that of all the big names, none of them are the players who are "carrying" the league right now. Are we supposed to believe that when Bonds, McGwire, Canseco, Clemens, Tejada, Gagne, Giambi etc were doing things nobody had ever done they were dirty, but now, when Pujols, ARod, Ortiz, Santana, Manny etc are doing things nobody has ever done, they're clean?

No, they are Domenicans

Posted by: min0 lee

I always sensed he used them......

Can we now say that he had roid rage when he threw Piazza's broken bat at him?

Posted by: min0 lee

The names are popping up now, Pettite, Ben Santiago and Mo Vuagn????

Posted by: IainDaniel

I hate MLB even more now.... selling out there stars when only a few years ago they were too pussy to act then cause of the ratings they were getting following the slide from the strike.

Fuck bud selig and the league, I am done with MLB.

Posted by: Triple Threat

So does this mean that Clemens retires for good?

Posted by: dg806

I bet it's a good bet. I'd hate to see it, and I could care less who takes what steriod. Mitchell is a dumbass. Why bother with it...it will only drive it deeper into secrecy.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Buster Olney and Sean Salisbury were on Mike and Mike this morning and they say the Yankee titles of the 90's are all tainted now.

What a couple of sperm dumps.

Posted by: IainDaniel

All yankee championships are tainted.

Ass Tainted.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

I watched Jose Canseco on Larry King last night. How ironic that Jose Canseco is about the only player I believe. He hides nothing.

Posted by: IainDaniel

I still hate Bud Selig and his cronies.

Posted by: min0 lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

I watched Jose Canseco on Larry King last night. How ironic that Jose Canseco is about the only player I believe. He hides nothing.

Canseco surprised A-Rod is not on Mitchell's list -- Newsday.com

Canseco surprised A-Rod is not on Mitchell's list

Posted by: Triple Threat

I find it funny how Clemens is denying supposed usage. So far the report seems to be dead nuts on, with several of those named coming forward and admitting to past usage, effectively corroborating McNamee's stories. Why would McNamee fabricate a story about Clemens and chance spoiling his credibility?

Posted by: shiznit2169

Clemens is a fool. Do you honestly think McNamee would tell the truth about Andy Pettitte (which he admitted using it) and lie about Clemens? Clemens is just being in constant denial just like when Palmeiro said "I have never used steroids" with a serious look on his face in court.

Clemens very well knows that he is doing everything he can to get out of this because he doesn't want his legendary career to be tarnished. You're a fool Clemens.

Posted by: P-funk

Anyone watch him lie on 60 minutes last night?

His attempts to defend his name were terrible.

Posted by: crazy_enough

I watched part of it last night... The lies and deception were too painful for me to watch the entire thing

Posted by: I Are Baboon

I watched. I really felt for the guy.

He seemed so frustrated and angry to have gotten busted for using 'roids.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Pulling tractors with your teeth, growing a third ear on your forehead...

get real Clemens.

Posted by: IainDaniel

I wish one of these guys would just stand up and say... "fucking right I juiced. This is a business and I need to make money, Bud Selig and MLB didn't give a fuck about Steroids when it was bringing the fans back in after the strike... so why am I the bad guy."

Posted by: soxmuscle

I concur.

Posted by: I Are Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

I wish one of these guys would just stand up and say... "fucking right I juiced. This is a business and I need to make money, Bud Selig and MLB didn't give a fuck about Steroids when it was bringing the fans back in after the strike... so why am I the bad guy."

Jose Canseco did.

Posted by: dg806

Did anyone see the news conference Clemens Held. He was PISSED! Either he is the world's greatest actor or he didn't do it. I don't think he did it. Mcnamee was broke, not a penny, his wife and kids left, and it's been said that the government forced him into saying these things to keep from going to jail. I think it's the government behind the whole steriod scandel.

Posted by: dg806

McNamee has no credibility with me.
Excite - Sports News

Posted by: JerseyDevil

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Pulling tractors with your teeth, growing a third ear on your forehead...

get real Clemens.

I thought the same thing... but then from someone who did juice for a couple of years, I thought that statement was SO ignorant, that he is probably telling the truth. 4 injections, yeah right.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

McNamee has no credibility with me.
Excite - Sports News

these two are going to pull out all the shit on each other over the next few months, you can bet the house on that!

I still think Clemens is lying through his teeth. Watching him in his interview and press confrenece, he just looks like a little kid who is sitting there lying. He has all these "tells." He gets really angry, he swears (which a class act like himself never did), he fidgets, sweats, drinks his water, doesn't have a good defense ("it's not true"), gets angry about the hall of fame. All of these things are uncharacteristic of him.

Posted by: IainDaniel

No doubt Clemens is lying you don't pitch like that at 45....he still rules though.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

No doubt Clemens is lying you don't pitch like that at 45....he still rules though.

Nolan Ryan did.

Rich Gossage did.

Phil Neikro pitched into later years in life....but it doesn't count because he through the fucking knuckle ball.

Posted by: IainDaniel

Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens have similar stats interesting.

Goose Gossage can't be compared to these two pitchers. and Phil Niekro isn't even a blip on the radar.

The difference between Clemens and Ryan is the era they pitched in. I don't think Clemens could have been competitive as long without the juice. I don't really have any evidence to back this up... Just my personal opinion. That and the fact that practically everyone was juicing during this era.

Posted by: soxmuscle

Wow!

That's strange because this story came out a while ago:

QUOTE
The records released Tuesday by the St. Petersburg police show McNamee was suspected of raping a woman he had met at the Renaissance Vinoy Resort in October 2001. The Yankees were in town to close out the regular season against the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, and many players and support staff were staying at the upscale resort.

McNamee was having sex with the woman in the resort's pool and didn't stop when confronted by security, the documents say. Police were notified. When they arrived, they found McNamee had helped the woman out of the pool and get dressed, according to the documents. Groggy and incoherent, she was taken to the hospital, where the documents said she was found to have GHB, the "date-rape drug," in her system.

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

and Phil Niekro isn't even a blip on the radar.

Now you are on drugs! He is right behind Ryan in wins at 318 vs 324 for Ryan. You don't get those numbers not being a blip on the radar!!

List of Major League Baseball leaders in career wins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Posted by: soxmuscle

He had 121 victories after the age of 40.

He was a very good pitcher in his time, but longevity is what made his career numbers so good unlike a Roger Clemens or Nolan Ryan who dominated at all aspects of the game year in and year out.

Posted by: dg806

Actually, Ryan played 3 years longer than Niekro.

Posted by: soxmuscle

I know this.

Posted by: dg806

So how many victories did Nolan have after 40? He was probably older than Phil. So Phil's victories might have been more impressive.

Posted by: soxmuscle

That's true, I probably shouldn't have mentioned Ryan in the same breath with Clemens, in hindsight.

Posted by: NordicNacho

Cy Young awards

Clemens 7

Ryan 0

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

That's true, I probably shouldn't have mentioned Ryan in the same breath with Clemens, in hindsight.

No that was not my point. All of them were great pitchers, no doubt. I thought you kinda threw Phil off as not being any good, which is not true IMO. Different era's bring different pitchers with different abilities. No doubt Clemens is one of the best! And Ryan was a great pitcher. He could still probably out pitch some today!

Posted by: IainDaniel

Miguel Tijeada being investigated by federal agents for perjury.

Posted by: soxmuscle

does the federal government realize we're in a war right now?

Posted by: IainDaniel

What is more important an American past time.... or those dirty Iraqi's liberties.

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37