Can you determine your genetic potential? [Forum Archive]

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Can you determine your genetic potential?

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Posted by: Destram

I've seen people here advising others not to take roids unless they have the genetic potential to be bodybuilders. Now im not looking to use roids or anything like that, id just like to know if there is a way to determine about how big you can get after years of training. I mean, how would people know if they could become professional bodybuilders?

Posted by: Sub-Zero

Train hard for a few years, then ask the same question. Is it quite hard to determine ur potential without training for a few years.

Posted by: mick01

At an untrained 22yrs I was a lean 180lbs. I must assume by that age I had grown all I was going to.
After 10yrs of hard training I have achieved a lean 220. Now you must take into account the years with little experience. Over training, thinking my diet was good, the first few years I was still parting pretty hard. So I’m sure the first 5 or so years were not optimal growth years.
40lbs later I still haven’t hit my potential. I’m still growing and getting stronger at 33yrs.
If I knew then what I know now........who knows......but that’s part of the game. Nothing is more valuable than experience and paying your dues.

IMO using AS in large amounts are not worth the risks. The amount of drugs used by today’s professionals are staggering! I'm curious to see how long some of these guys will live and what their quality of life will be after bodybuilding.
What’s sad is the amount of money they are spending on the drugs and the damage they are doing to themselves for the small amount of money a BB might make. What’s the winner of the Olympia get 100K? They probably spend 50K a year in drugs! I guess they make some money off supplement endorsements but to me my liver would be more important.

Posted by: Mudge

Even rather smallish people can achieve good size, plenty of hard work, and the appropriate diet. I hope you dont think your almost there, dont put yourself in too much of a rush, it comes with time - which is why most people don't get too far, persistence is the key.

Posted by: Destram

Well what i mean is, lets say in 2 years i look at myself and say "is this all i could have gotten?". Is there any way of knowing what to expect or if you are actually working up to your potential?

Posted by: Prince

To make it as a pro bodybuilder these days you have to be a genetic freak. One of those guys you hate that has awesome shape, proportion, symmetry and size without drugs.

You also need the cash to support your drugs, which can cost thousands per year, and lastly the desire to basically ruin your body for the sake of maybe getting your pics in the major mags.

I honestly think the guys that make it in the pro world have a mental disorder. I cannot see any other reason to get that huge, and ruin your health for the sake of "bodybuilding fame". Even if you make it, even the best Weider boys who end up with sweet contracts do not end up millionaires or even rich for that matter. Ther are a few that retire and start a business such as Lee Labrada, and actually become successful, but most do not.

Posted by: Destram

Yeah i agree with you. I probably shouldn't have put that in there, thats just why i heard people telling others not to take steroids. I'm not looking to be a pro bodybuilder, i dont have the body or the desire to do that. I was just wondering if there is any way to gauge my progress or see if i am where i should be later on down the road.

Posted by: Mudge

Arnold said the same thing, to be the best you need to be disturbed - to push yourself to those levels. I have several hobbies, anyone who is super die hard on a single one, not that I put it down, is just something that I could never do myself.

BTW, I'm sure you have more than 2 years to go too

Posted by: Destram

Originally posted by Mudge

BTW, I'm sure you have more than 2 years to go too

????

Thanks for the replies.

Posted by: Prince

I do not know if there is any way to determine your genetic potential, why would you really care?

Posted by: Chest Rockwell

Originally posted by Prince
I honestly think the guys that make it in the pro world have a mental disorder.

The mental disorder is called reverse anorexia nervosa
or Bigorexia. Its kind of a body dysmorphic disorder.
http://www.fit-zone.com/library/b/bo..._anorexia.html

Posted by: Destram

Originally posted by Prince
I do not know if there is any way to determine your genetic potential, why would you really care?

How else would you know that you need to make a change to your training/diet/etc? You wouldn't want to know if you are/were working up to your potential?

Posted by: Mudge

Destram, you and I have a VERY long way to go before we reach our natural potentials. Look at Gopro, still going, and us rather far behind.

Experience, and persistence will get you moving along, and with that experience you learn to make adjustments when you reach sticking points. You need to find the diet(s) and workout plans that work for you, and at the right times make a switch when something is stagnant.

I am close to 17.5" arms now, and I know that I am not going to be hitting my limits in 2 years. How tall are you, and what are your stats? I saw you list your before/after pix at the 3 month point, but don't recall if you listed stats...

Posted by: Mudge

Originally posted by Destram

How else would you know that you need to make a change to your training/diet/etc? You wouldn't want to know if you are/were working up to your potential?

He is either saying this because,

a) you'll be such a freak you'll scare all the normal people around you,

or

b) because you are years and years away from reaching any kind of "limit", the gains will come slower as time goes on, partially because the mass takes longer to fill out since your covering more "volume" as you go on.

Posted by: Destram

I get what you're saying but im just worried that in a year or whatever im gonna find out that because i lacked the experience/knowledge/etc that i could have been a lot farther along than i actually ended up being if you know what i mean. I'd like to get the best results out of the time i spend, want to make the most of it. I got a LONG way to go, i know, and i plan on going till im well into middle age and hopefully continuing lifting even as i get into my 60's and up (if i live that long

). I just want to know if there is any way to establish what a person's foundation is, and how far one SHOULD be able to go in a given amount of time. I'm not asking for a fix-all or asking for somebody to tell me what I'll look like in 10 years, I just wanted to know if there is some way to gauge whatever progress i make.

My stats are
5' 9"
173lbs
13% bf (my readings, hope they are accuate)
15" arms (i would like to take more measurements but i dont know where exactly to measure each thing)

Posted by: Sub-Zero

Sorry, but accorind to that back photo in your avatar, you are not 13% BF. Who took the measurements and how many sites were used ?

Posted by: Mudge

Originally posted by Destram I get what you're saying but im just worried that in a year or whatever im gonna find out that because i lacked the experience/knowledge/etc that i could have been a lot farther along than i actually ended up being if you know what i mean.

Yes, I get exactly what you mean. As a 'beginner' you will make great gains for awhile, that slow down as time goes on. Make sure your diet is 'correct', that is one thing I ignored when I started out, especially since my early years of lifting were from age 11-15, somehow I just didn't spend alot of time investigating that end, and I had a hard enough time getting any data, just kind of did whatever.

Anyhow, if you try to follow the 'rules' and ask questions, learn to make adjustments you will continue to progress. What I may add as advice is early on I forced myself (I probably still should technically) to track my measurements once every week, and daily when I worked out I kept a training log, during my rest period between sets I would wright down the weightxreps I used during that set. I also wrote down all my workout before I started, that way all I did was fill in reps, I only put starter weights for my first working sets though, that way I could make adjustments.

You can try to compare these logs every month-3 months or whatever when your starting to slow down, look at what your doing, when I started using this routine my ____ doesn't seem to respond anymore, or my strength is not increasing, whatever you may be watching.

If there is something else I could suggest, while everyones brain is different, try not to freak out about I WANT TO BE HUGE NOW syndrome, alot of people burn out this way. I make sure to keep my workouts to no more than 60 minutes, and more often I'm out of the gym in 40-45, not only for your GH levels but for your brain, keep the workout short, do your stuff and get out. Don't dick off talking between sets, your in there to do a job right? Also I find that your hungry for more later on, you feel good you did your 'job', and you aren't sick of seeing the gym the next day because you weren't in there for 3 hours falling asleep on the bench talking to someone.

How much protein are you intaking daily? I weight 217 and am doing 345g per day now, 1g per pound did not seem to be getting me very far at all.

Hope this jib-jab makes some sense.

Posted by: Destram

Yeah makes a lot of sense man. I should track my progress more, i do casually watch my weight/reps, but i dont write it down or monitor it like i should. My workouts usually last about 90-120 minutes. Sometimes ill take longer rests between sets if i have something i have to do inbetween like talk to somebody on the phone or something (i lift at home). Thanks for helping man.

My protein intake is probably between 190-230g per day. I don't have a SUPER strict diet, and things change daily, but i do stick to the same overall basics.

Posted by: Mudge

See, where you should be making progress that is trackable every week or two weeks, a month or two could EASILY go by where you are not able to see (on paper) "hey, I should be putting on 5/10 more pounds here and I'm not", in other words, it is easy to allow yourself to progress slower than you should be able to.

I wear a stop watch and am using 60 seconds timer right now, so my rest is 70-75 seconds, I dont go more than about 80s on the watch which is 90 second rest period. If you want to go heavy for a week or two (3-8 reps, whatever), then you can use 2min or more if you like.

I dont carry around a huge notepad or anything, just a small notepad that is big enough to write down the workouts on. Since I abreviate most of the excersize names, there is plenty of space.

Posted by: Mudge

When you do measurements, just make sure your doing it the same way every time, that way you at least know where your going

Use a "cloth"/sewers tape if you don't have one already, you can find them at any sewing supply type place.

Posted by: Destram

Yeah thats what i used to measure my arms. I just don't know about like chest, calves, forearms, all those things where exactly to measure at. On my arms i just measure in the middle of the bicep where the peak is the biggest. Do i just go to the biggest spot on my calves and chest and everything?

Posted by: Mudge

Pretty much the same everywhere else yes, the only factor is how you decide to do the chest, hold air in, how much to hold in, or just relaxed or what. So long as its the same every time you measure.

Posted by: gopro

You can have a biopsy done of all of your muscles to see your approximate amount of muscle fibers and whether you are blessed with a high amount of Type II fibers...you can check and see if all of your hormone levels are in the proper to high range...you can look at your muscle insertion/attatchments to see if your muscle belly's are nice and long...

...or, you can get in the gym, bust your ass year after year, and reach whatever potential your genetics will allow (oh, and NEVER believe you are at your limit...what your mind believes your body will accept!).

Posted by: LAM

90-120 minutes is WAY TO LONG ! you need to either lower the volume of your training or up the intensity. there is no reason why you can not do 1 large and 1 small body part in an hour.

It has been proven that cortisol levels remain high after a high volume of resistance exercise (irrespective of whether a post-exercise carbohydrate-protein supplement is used).

Posted by: Mudge

Yep, GH levels drop off after 45 minutes approximately, so its rather like your wasting your time after that (minus drugs).

Posted by: Snake_Eyes

Originally posted by gopro
You can have a biopsy done of all of your muscles to see your approximate amount of muscle fibers and whether you are blessed with a high amount of Type II fibers...you can check and see if all of your hormone levels are in the proper to high range...you can look at your muscle insertion/attatchments to see if your muscle belly's are nice and long...

Man I hope you're kidding here.

...or, you can get in the gym, bust your ass year after year, and reach whatever potential your genetics will allow (oh, and NEVER believe you are at your limit...what your mind believes your body will accept!).

Good work.........I agree totally.

Now, regarding the hormone factor.. I agree that training for more than 60 minutes or so can be detrimental....however, I do it pretty regularly with little if any drawbacks.

True, the test/cortisol ratio does decline after that period, and if you're into muscle mass, 60 min. should be about the limit.

But do remember that rules are made to be broken...nothing's set in stone. If things like progression in weight are going to be sacrificed because of hormones, then forget the hormones.

Posted by: gopro

Only kidding in the fact that anyone that did this would be completely nuts, hence, the statement I followed with...

Posted by: LAM

Snake_Eyes...if one is strength training then that would be the case. is one is training for hypertrophy then strength takes a back seat. there are numerous studies that prove high-volume routines cause cortisol levels to stay elevated for several hours after a high-volume training session, regardless if a high GI/GR carb drink is consumed after to spike insulin...

Posted by: Vale Tudo

i totally agree with mudge on the keeping of a notebook. I used to not record my weights and reps, and then after 6 months of training i would still be doing the same weights and not have gained much mass, and wonder why...(Yeah i know I was an idiot!) Anyway since I have been kepping track i try to go up at least 5 to 10 lbs on all of the sets of my lifts and it has made my workouts much more intense and I have seen a lot of new growth! So start to record what you are doing!!! Ond if you really want results you should try tightening up your diet some...that can make all of the change in the world!!

Posted by: Snake_Eyes

Originally posted by LAM
Snake_Eyes...if one is strength training then that would be the case. is one is training for hypertrophy then strength takes a back seat. there are numerous studies that prove high-volume routines cause cortisol levels to stay elevated for several hours after a high-volume training session, regardless if a high GI/GR carb drink is consumed after to spike insulin...

Some would argue that those elevated cortisol levels are necessary to initiate the body's repair process.

Posted by: LAM

That would only be the case with a trainer with poor post-workout nutrition as the amino acid pool would be insufficient to repair contractile proteins. As cortisol accelerates proteolysis there would be no benefit if post workout nutrition were adequate.

Posted by: Snake_Eyes

That makes it sound as if muscle repair occurs immediately post-session, and not in the period of increased protein synthesis that occurs over the next 24-72 hours after lifting.

Posted by: LAM

in the exercised muscle(s) protein sysnthesis resumes immediately after resistance training has ended...

Posted by: Snake_Eyes

In all actuality it never truly stops. The muscle is in a constant state of syntheis vs. degradation, and only during the periods that ATP is being spent on mechanical work does the synthesis truly slow down. The repair process doesn't begin immediately even so.

My argument is that the period of heightened cortisol after lifting is a *necessary* part of the entire inflammation/repair process.

Posted by: Robboe

There is a theory going that cortisol is responsible for muscle maturity.

Think of it the same way as leopards go for the weakest link of the bunch ie the buffalo with the gammy leg lol.

The idea goes that much in the same way, cortisol picks of the weaker of the muscle cells, leaving only the top dogs, if you will. Ad thus, a possible (and reasonable) explaination for why more advanced lifters (ie old guys who squat) look like a brick wall. (of course there's always the bodyfat issue, but if they're lean...)

Posted by: gopro

Interesting argument guys!

Posted by: Robboe

Originally posted by Snake_Eyes
In all actuality it never truly stops. The muscle is in a constant state of syntheis vs. degradation,

Correct.

Thus, when rate of synthesis is greater than degradation, you're in anabolic mode. When rate of synthesis is lower than degradation, you're in a catabolic state.

Higher calories and nitrogen balance determine whether you're in anabolic or catabolic state, thus, eat over maintenance and grow (anabolism) eat under and lose weight (catabolism).

In the broad scope of things, whether you take in a post workout shake immediately post train or an after after training won't make a significant amount of difference. Sure, it'll help your recovery get kick started, but since protein synthesis isn't doubled until 24 hours after training (prolly due to anabolic hormones like testosterone being supressed after training and not climaxing until 24 hours post train - another reason why i'm not particularly a fan of training two days in a row) then the difference isn't essential.

Mike Mentzer and Frank Zane are two respected bodybuilders with great figure who both believed that protein supps were just fad and that 6 meals a day was all that was necessary. They didn't eat straight after training and it did them no harm.

At the end of the day, liquid post workout concoctions are beneficial, but not a requirement.

Posted by: Training God

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

but since protein synthesis isn't doubled until 24 hours after training (prolly due to anabolic hormones like testosterone being supressed after training and not climaxing until 24 hours post train - .

*** Is there a study you can show us?

Posted by: Robboe

Probably.

I read it in a Bryan Haycock article.

It doubles afetr 24 hours and retruns close to baseline after 36 hours.

Posted by: Training God

The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.

MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE.

Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario.

It has been shown that muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by 50% at 4 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hrs following training. This study further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a training session. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms using the primed constant infusion technique over 11 hrs. At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline.

Posted by: Robboe

That looks like the one. Good work, Sherlock.

Did you get it from the bryan haycock article?

Posted by: Training God

No.
I just got it off my 'study' document file folder.
I have so many studies, but I never bother to read them.

Posted by: Robboe

Good idea.

I wish i could be bothered to make myself one of those. it would make things elatively easier...

Posted by: waynelucky

GENETIC POTENTIAL
ARTHUR JONES said over twentyfive years ago that most bodybuilders strongmen are not realistic in their goals.
They want something that is beyond their genetic potential-namely great mus- cular size. In other words, their goal is simply not possible!
he went several steps further by saying that the major genetic factor behind great muscular size, especially in the arms, is extremely long muscle bellies in your biceps and triceps. And the length of your muscle bellies is 100 percent genetically deter- mined. What you were Born with is what you must live and die with.
Many of the bodybuilders especially Boyer Coe, Casey Viator, Sergio Oliva, Ed Robinson, Manfred h. mariuzsi p. and Arnold
have very long muscle bellies in their arms. It is no wondher that they have some of the biggest and best-shaped biceps and triceps in the world.
It is a known physiological fact that the longer a person's muscle, the greater the cross-sectional area and the overall volume of that muscle can become. Simple phys- iology reveals that for a muscle to be wide it has to be long. A short muscle could not be wide because its angle of pull would he so poor it would not be able to function effi- ciently. Thus, the body would not permit a short, wide muscle to exist.
How do you determine if you have long, average, or short muscle bellies in your upperarms?
The key factor is where your biceps and triceps muscles attach to the tendons that cross your elbow joints.
EVALUATING YOUR BICEPS POTENTIAL
let's begin with the biceps. Take off your
shirt and bit a double-biceps pose in front of
a mirror. look closely at the inside elbow
area of both arms. Now, pronate (turn your hands away from your head) and supinate (turn your hands toward your head) your hands. Notice that when you supinate your hands, your biceps get more peaked. That's because the primary function of your biceps
is supination of the hand.
Go back to the double-biceps pose with your hands fully supinated. The bend in your arms, or the angle between the bones in your upper arms and forearms should he 90 degrees. look at the gap between your contracted biceps and elbow. How wide is
the gap?
Before you measure it, relax your arms for a few minutes and while you're relaxing, do the following. Take your right hand and place your fingers and thumb across the crook of your left elbow. You should he able to feel the large tendon of the biceps as it crosses the front of the elbow joint and inserts into the radius bone of the forearm. In fact, as you gently contract your left biceps, dig your
tips into the elbow gap and get a good feel of the cablelike tendon. Follow the tendon up the arm until you feel where it connects to your biceps. It's the distance between where your biceps meets the tendon and where the tendon crosses the elbow joint that you need to determine.
Hit the double-biceps pose once again. Make sure your hands are fully supinated and that the bend in your arms is 90 degrees. Have a friend measure with a ruler the distance between the inside of your elbow (look for the crease in the skin on the front side of your elbow) and the inside edge of your contracted biceps. BY the way this distance will be the same distance before you ever started training and if you train for many years no matter how much muscle you pack on that distance will never move its genetical determined
Do it for both yourleft and right arms
.
What do the resulting figures mean? Although this is certainly not an exact
science by any means, my experience leads me to make the following generalizations:

Biceps Potential for Building Mass

Distance Between Elbow and Edge of
Contracted Biceps.
Biceps length Potential
½ “ or less long Great
½”-1” Above average Good
1”-1 ½” average average
1-1/2” to 2” below average poor
2” or more short very minimal

The bodybuilders with the really massive arms all have 1/2inch or less distance be- tween their elbows and contracted biceps. In other words, in their biceps they have long muscle bellies, short tendons, and great potential.
Sergio Oliva, the man with one of the most mas- sive muscular arms in the world, has biceps muscles that are so long there are no gaps between his elbows and contracted biceps. That's right-no gaps, Sergio's arms would actually measure larger if he could fully contract his biceps by bending his elbows more. Sergio is one of the very few people in the world who has muscles that actually limit his range of movement. But even so, there are thousands of men today who would
gladly trade their biceps for Sergio's.
While no one questions the importance of well-developed biceps, the muscle that con- tributes the most to the mass of the upper arm is the triceps.
EVALUATING YOUR TRICEPS POTENTIAL
The length of the triceps, compared to the biceps, is harder to determine. The difficulty lies in the fact that the junction between the three beads of the triceps and their common tendon is more difficult to measure and evaluate.
The triceps-as the name implies-is composed of three beads: lateral, long, and medial. All three beads attach to a large flat tendon that runs across the back of the elbow and connects to the forearm bone.
Take off your shirt again and look in the mirror. Turn to your side. With your elbow straight and your arm by your side, contract your triceps. You should observe, if you are reasonably lean, a distinct horseshoe shape to your triceps. The lateral head of your triceps forms one side of the horseshoe, the medial head forms the other side, the long head is at the top, and the tendon occupies the flat space in the middle.
What I've observed over many years is
that the men with the really massive triceps

of a horseshoe shape to the back of their arms. The flat space in the middle of the horseshoe is partially covered by the unusual length of the long head at the top. And the lateral and medial beads on the sides resemble upside-down soft drink bot- tles. What's left of the tendon is about the
size of a rounded-off-at-one-end credit card. Sergio Oliva, for example, has no horse-
shoe shape at all to the back of his arms. Bill Pearl's triceps are much the same as Ser- gio's, as are the triceps of Ray and Mike Mentzer.
To determine your triceps potential, here's what to do. With your elbow straight and your arm by your side, contract your triceps. Have a friend measure the distance from the tip of your elbow to the top of the inside of the horseshoe. In other words, you are measur- ing the longest portion of the flat tendon.
Remember, the longer the tendon, the shorter the muscle. Or the shorter the
tendon, the longer the muscle.
Here are my generalizations for estimating your triceps potential:

Triceps Potential for Building Mass
Distance Between
Elbow Tip and
Top of Inside of
Horseshoe Triceps Length Potential
3" or less long great
3"-4" above average good
4"-6" average average
6"-7" below average poor
7"or more short very minimal

You can still have a massive triceps- even if you have a short, long head-if your lateral and medial beads are long and thick. The triceps chart, therefore, is not as accu- rate as the biceps table.
My advice is to use both the biceps and the triceps charts in a very general, non- definitive manner.
LOOKING AT THE PROBABILITIES
What are your chances for building a really big pair of arms? The type that would place you in the top five of the Mr. Olympia
contest?
First, as you might already suspect, the odds are not good. At best they are perhaps one in a million. In other words, out of every one million men in the United States, only one has the potential to have arms like Boyer Coe or Casey Viator.
Since there are approximately 242 million people in the United States, and only half of them (121 million) are male, that means
there are 121 males in this country with unusual genetic potential for building mus- cular, 20-inch arms.
Second, if you do have the genetic poten- tial for building big arms, you probably already have big arms-even if you don't train. And if you do train, you probably already believe you understand the basics of bodybuilding because you have big arms. In fact, many of you probably have average, or slightly above-average, genetic potential.
Others of you will have much better-than- average genetic potential and you will
achieve much better-than-average results.
But what can you ultimately become? How big will your arms he if you reach your
genetic potential? In other words, what is a realistic goal for your upper arm circum- ference?
A REALISTIC GOAL
Joe Roark, lists the following formula for the average trainee:
To calculate your upper arm potential, THIS IS JUST A GUIDE DON'T HOLD ME BY IT
multiply your wrist size in inches by 2.3.
For example, if your wrist size is exactly 7 inches, then 7 times 2.3 equals 16.1 inches. "But who wants a 16-inch arm?" you might he thinking.
Well, 1 promise you, a lean muscular 16- inch arm actually looks bigger than it is.
Furthermore, you've certainly got to get 16-inch arms before you move higher up the tape. And if you already have legitimate 16- inch arms, then your goal should he 17 inches. Or if you have 17-inch arms, then shoot for 18 inches.
In the final analysis, he realistic and take it one step at a time.
thank you wayne

Posted by: Vieope

Makes sense but I doubt that it is valid for everybody.

Posted by: waynelucky

well hi there, no i don't think its valid for everyone, but i have been lucky to travel a lot and it works pritty good, but as you said its not for everone.
thank you wayne

Posted by: PreMier

Thanks for that Wayne. Very interesting... except for that last part about wrist size

Posted by: Flex

Originally posted by Destram
Can you determine your genetic potential?

No.

it is impossible. there is no way you can possibly know the exact training/diet/sleep and amount of time it takes etc. that would bring you to your absolute maximum genetic potential.

Posted by: Sapphire

Originally posted by gopro

...or, you can get in the gym, bust your ass year after year, and reach whatever potential your genetics will allow (oh, and NEVER believe you are at your limit...what your mind believes your body will accept!).

GP YOU ARE GOOD!!! I love this quote!!

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