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deadlifts and swats


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Posted by: UFC rocks

i have heard from a lot of people that deadlifts and swats can help you increase in your other exercises.

1) how is this, i do belive it, but i would like to know the science behind it.

2) serval people have told me that the best full body exercise is deadlifts and alot of people say if you want a big back do deadlifts. can some one tell me what parts of the back get worked in deadlifts, i know that it works the lower back and traps and also works the legs quiet well.

3) i have just started doing deadlift, do you think it will help me increase in my bench press - and how does this work (answer to question 2). dont worry i am not expecting miracles, i dont expect my bench to shoot up, but will it help increase it.

i cant really do heavy swats because i dont have a swat rack. but this is ok for me because i dont want really big legs, when doing swats i have to pick the weight of the floor and lift it over my head to get into the swat postion and once i have finish the swats i have to get it out of the swat postion and place it back down on the floor, this means i cant swat as heavy as my legs can handle because i wont be able to get it into postion, so this means the number of swats is usally 20+. for me this and deadlifts (which also work the legs queit good ) is ok because i dont want big legs.


Posted by: Namo

I'm assuming you mean squats?

Deadlifts and squats recruit the most muscle, therefore inspiring more growth overall. I think doing all of the major compound movements complement one another, so just adding deadlifts probably wont do a whole lot as far as your bench, but doing deads, squats, rows, benches, pullups, and military presses will help you see overall growth. One isn't necessarily the missing link.

As far as not wanting big legs, trust me, its not gonna be like your gonna wake up one morning and say "fuck, i knew i shouldnt of squatted that much, now my legs are enourmous" it doesnt work that way. Personally I think that heavy squats and front squats are the most important workout you can do for overall growth (again, its not the magic workout, just the most bang for your buck). Try to figure out a way to get a rack, or build something... I use my adjustable bench to do them, it works fine, just make sure you have a spotter. I think that deadlifts are a very close second to squats, but doing them both is where you will start to see the difference in your other workouts.

I'm sure someone else can add more detail, or completely disagree with my statements, but thats just my take


Posted by: soxmuscle

Swats are my favorite exercise.


Posted by: Witchblade

I'm so tired I can barely think right now, but basically:

Squats/deadlifts recruit most of the muscles in your body => greatest overall growth response + strong neurological adaptions + whole body hormone changes => biggest contributors to overall body growth.

Your legs won't get too big. Besides, a lot of girls like strong legs.


Posted by: soxmuscle

Nobody should ever go into weight training and say that they don't want to get "too big." That just simply won't happen.


Posted by: Namo

Quote:
Originally Posted by soxmuscle View Post
Nobody should ever go into weight training and say that they don't want to get "too big." That just simply won't happen.
Yeah, I love that mentality... Like its that easy... I get so annoyed when people say that to me, like its and instant transformation or something.


Posted by: katt

I think girls are the worst about it


Posted by: Big G

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchblade View Post
Squats/deadlifts recruit most of the muscles in your body => greatest overall growth response + strong neurological adaptions + whole body hormone changes => biggest contributors to overall body growth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchblade View Post
Your legs won't get too big.
Not strictly true. My upper legs have absolutely ballooned over the past nine months of intensive squatting ("swatting").

In the past month I've given at least a half-dozen pairs of jeans to my wife becuase they now look as if they're Ciran-wrapped around my thighs. There's no way I could wear them. I'd just look stupid. They were definitely baggy when I bought them.

In Macy's After-Xmas Clothing-Sale I was bummed to find numerous pairs of really, really cheap 32x32 pants (even dress pants) that were simply too tight for my upper legs to fit into. I never had that problem before, ever.

Still... I love my legs being bigger. I look better in the mirror, my wife likes 'em, plus I even feel like I move differently these days, especially up stairs. It feels good.

Also, from what I understand, bigger legs consume more calories so I get to eat more without gaining bodyfat. More food = Mmm-Mmm-Good.


Posted by: Metallibanger

1) Deadlifts and squats are multi joint movements that recruit a lot of muscles. For this reason, given the amount of weight one can use, they are excellent overall-strength builders.
2) Deadlifts work your whole back, head to toe.
3) Keep in mind that by doing deadlifts your body gets accustomed to handle heavy weight, which, in turn, benefits all the other exercises.
4) Don’t want big legs?


Posted by: Metallibanger

Yeah you're right, it makes me laugh


Posted by: Namo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallibanger View Post
Dont want big legs?
Yeah I dont get that either... Legs are what carry you, who wants to be top heavy? Doesn't make much sense


Posted by: UFC rocks

[quote=Big G;1722887

Also, from what I understand, bigger legs consume more calories so I get to eat more without gaining bodyfat. More food = Mmm-Mmm-Good. [/QUOTE]

you guys have made some good points, looks like i will have work more on my legs, you guys will most likely think i am stupid for one of the reasons i am going to give for keeping away from swats, but doesnt swats work the muscles in the ass - giveing you a bigger ass.

but i must say i like the statement Big G made, i will do any thing which means i can eat more.


Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namo View Post
Yeah, I love that mentality... Like its that easy... I get so annoyed when people say that to me, like its and instant transformation or something.
...Or I don't want to get big, I just want to get toned.




Posted by: soxmuscle

Quote:
Originally Posted by katt View Post
I think girls are the worst about it
'

Like I said in another thread yesterday, girls are dumb in terms of exercising. That's why I really respect girls I see in the gym who are actually doing something productive.


Posted by: bwt502

This is how somebody put it to me once (keep in mind this guy was a linebacker/ satety at a state school in CA) "You can't have the top without the bottom."


Posted by: rahaas

I see so much upper body workout in my gym, very little lower.

I'm definity a minority there doing squats and deadlifts.

Oh well, at least the squat rack is open for me most of the time except when the gym idots are doing curls in front of it

BTW women with muscular legs and calves are sexy as hell IMO, why would they worry about them getting too big?


Posted by: soxmuscle

thunder thighs are great, especially when they're toned.


Posted by: Metallibanger

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
you guys have made some good points, looks like i will have work more on my legs, you guys will most likely think i am stupid for one of the reasons i am going to give for keeping away from swats, but doesnt swats work the muscles in the ass - giveing you a bigger ass.

but i must say i like the statement Big G made, i will do any thing which means i can eat more.
The concept that squats give you a big ass is a stupidity. If you are a serious trainer, you can't avoid squats. They're meat and potatoes. However, if you don't have access to a squat rack, the way you do squats is fine. You can do hack squats too, that's placing the barbell behind your body. I think that legs are never too big unless you are Tom Platz...


Posted by: Metallibanger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namo View Post
Yeah I dont get that either... Legs are what carry you, who wants to be top heavy? Doesn't make much sense
What doesn't make much sense is trying to be stronger avoiding the strength builders


Posted by: danny81

Quote:
Originally Posted by soxmuscle View Post
...Or I don't want to get big, I just want to get toned.
i dont understand why you get mad at guys who dont want to get huge. i mean most girls like that type of guy


Posted by: danny81

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahaas View Post
I see so much upper body workout in my gym, very little lower.

I'm definity a minority there doing squats and deadlifts.

Oh well, at least the squat rack is open for me most of the time except when the gym idots are doing curls in front of it

BTW women with muscular legs and calves are sexy as hell IMO, why would they worry about them getting too big?
thats fucking disgusting


Posted by: Namo

Quote:
Originally Posted by danny81 View Post
thats fucking disgusting
you're the last person that should have any input on this thread, anorexic douche


Posted by: Metallibanger

Don't forget that building strength is building mass. If you lift heavy, you get big


Posted by: Big G

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namo View Post
you're the last person that should have any input on this thread, anorexic douche
Absolutely!!

Danny.... Serioiusly.


Posted by: Big G

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
you guys have made some good points, looks like i will have work more on my legs, you guys will most likely think i am stupid for one of the reasons i am going to give for keeping away from swats, but doesnt swats work the muscles in the ass - giveing you a bigger ass.

but i must say i like the statement Big G made, i will do any thing which means i can eat more.
From experience... My upper legs have grown tremendously but I have not developed a big ass. Admittedly after last week's 220lb 20rep set my ass hurt something chronic for a few days, so there's no doubt that your glutes do get involved. But, seriously, I wouldn't worry about getting a big ass. It'll probably get hard, but I've never heard a girl complain about her man's buns being too firm!

Oh! And no more calling SQUATS "swats" please. Once is forgivable, but twice is just plain ignorant. No offense. I'm just saying. Swat flies. Squat heavy!


Posted by: Big G

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Absolutely!!

Danny.... Serioiusly.
Dammit.. Typo... s-e-r-i-o-u-s-l-y

And I bitch at Danny about that shit.

Then again, what am I worrying about. We're discussing "swats" afterall!


Posted by: Big G

Quote:
Originally Posted by danny81 View Post
thats fucking disgusting
Really?



Posted by: Metallibanger

Respect the hardcore swaters () SWAT OR DIE


Posted by: Burner02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Swat flies. Squat heavy!
hmm...sounds like a new motto!


Posted by: Namo

I'm gonna do some front swats tonight, maybe some hack swats while im at it......

Then some bunch preaches.....


Posted by: Burner02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namo View Post
I'm gonna do some front swats tonight, maybe some hack swats while im at it......

Then some bunch preaches.....
You northern folk talk funny....


Posted by: Witchblade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Really?
If that is your counterargument, I'm with danny...


Posted by: Namo

the one on the right is pretty hot, the other 2 look like dudes


Posted by: Burner02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namo View Post
the one on the right is pretty hot, the other 2 look like dudes
well, turn the lights off...and hopefully...everything else will fall into place...


Posted by: Big G

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchblade View Post
If that is your counterargument, I'm with danny...


Legs, dude. We're talking legs.

Squats won't fix your face!


Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchblade View Post
If that is your counterargument, I'm with danny...
I agree. those are some nasty bitches....legs and all.


Posted by: rocket3971

looks like they did wayy too many swats


Posted by: danny81

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Really?
gross


Posted by: danny81

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namo View Post
you're the last person that should have any input on this thread, anorexic douche
stfu u fat faggit


Posted by: Hoglander

Danny, you are to young to look at hermaphrodites.


Posted by: danny81

lol


Posted by: Namo

Quote:
Originally Posted by danny81 View Post
stfu u fat faggit
Thats a good one Danny, you almost spelled faggot right, you borderline retard


Posted by: rahaas

Quote:
Originally Posted by danny81 View Post
gross
Those aren't even girls...I think I'm gonna throw up now.


Posted by: AKIRA

Quote:
Originally Posted by katt View Post
I think girls are the worst about it
Yeah, no fucking shit. I grow tired of explaining that working out doesnt get you "bulked up" which is the excuse I hear constantly.

And Big G's pics arent that bad. Ive seen worse...Id fuck them. THe one on the right is best though...even though the middle's have the nicest tits from what can be seen.


To answer the question about why they are considered full body...

Squat: Your quads and hamstrings help extend the knee to do the concentric portion of the lift. Even though the quads do most of the extension work, the hamstrings help with the flexion on the decent. They help make sure you dont just DROP, but slow the weight in the controlled manner. Your calves are also working to keep the ankle stabilized, keeping the heels from coming off the ground. Your glutes also help as much as if not more with hip extension/flexion. Your abs and lower back stabilize the ever loving shit of whatever weight is on your shoulders. If your abs/lower back is weak, you get a bunch of rounding of the torso which is a cunt hair away of basically collapsing. If the abs/lower back is strong, they will keep your torso or CORE straight and stabilized. Your upper back and traps serve as stabilizers too making sure the bar doesnt move. If your shoulders, either the posterior or anterior are moving in any sort of way, that bar is going to break that fuckign neck of yours in a hurry.

Deadlift: This one is a doozy. The legs have similiar duties as the squat, but it depends on the type of deadlift being done. Hamstrings are more dominant in this exercise, however. Only this time, your upper body works differently than before. Your forearms have to be strong enough to lift that bar off the ground, yes? Your traps now serve as major stabilizers cuz they help keep the shoulders back and back arched. Your abs/lower back are once again keeping everything straight. Your glutes final movement mimic the movement of you fucking someone (in stroke )

As you can see, these movements call on a lot of muscles because the body should be TIGHT where movement is not merited. That takes muscular strength and endurance to do correctly. Because the rewards are so great, the demands for such form is so high and thus, is avoided by beginners cuz theyre harder to execute than a barbell curl.

Someone correct me or agree...might be just a matter of opinion, but I believe there is more total body strength going on in deadlifts than in squats. Either way, theyre pretty damn close.


Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKIRA View Post
Yeah, no fucking shit. I grow tired of explaining that working out doesnt get you "bulked up" which is the excuse I hear constantly.

And Big G's pics arent that bad. Ive seen worse...Id fuck them. THe one on the right is best though...even though the middle's have the nicest tits from what can be seen.


To answer the question about why they are considered full body...

Squat: Your quads and hamstrings help extend the knee to do the concentric portion of the lift.

Hamstrings extened the hip mainly. With a closed kinetic chain, hamstrings may help with a small amount of exntesion at the knee by helping to actually pull it to lock out. But, for the most part it is a hip extensor and knee FLEXOR.

Even though the quads do most of the extension work,

all of the extension work at the knee.

the hamstrings help with the flexion on the decent. They help make sure you dont just DROP, but slow the weight in the controlled manner.

wrong. you are not actively flexing the hamstrings on the decent of a squat. you are sitting back and your knees are flexing, but what is making sure you don't drop down and fall on your ass is really the knee extensors which are performing a strong eccentric contraction and at the hip, the hip extensors which are also performing a strong eccentric contraction (so at the hip, yes the hamstrings would be doing at eccentric contraction along with the glute max). As well, the glute med/min are helping to prevent you from flopping down as they are also active hip flexors/abductors/internal rotators and are needed for proper frontal plane stability of the hip musculature. Poor glute med/min firing can be seen in old people when they go to sit in a chair and just flop down on the last quarter of the movement.

Your calves are also working to keep the ankle stabilized, keeping the heels from coming off the ground.

Calves work to stabilize the ankle, yes. Expecially the interplay between the peroneals and the posterior tibilalis; as well as the interplay between the plantar flexors and the dorsiflexors (anterior tib.). The heels come of the ground if you are overly tight i plantar flexion. As well, the big objective of the calves at the bottom of the lift is to plantar flex the ankle and develop force from the ground up (as the act of squatting down actively places our ankle into a dorsi flexed position, allowing us to utilize the stretch reflex of the achilles tendon).


Your glutes also help as much as if not more with hip extension/flexion.

Glute max is big time in hip extension if it is firing properly. In most people, their hamstrings are over dominate as well as their adductor magnus, which also helps to extend the hip. But, glute max is the big one. The other two gluteal muscles have slightly different mechanics, with the glute min. being a hip flexor, interal rotator and abductor and the glute med. having posterior fibers which extend and externally rotate the hip and anterior fibers which flex and interally rotate the hip and both anterior and posterior fibers effectively contributing to hip abduction.

Your abs and lower back stabilize the ever loving shit of whatever weight is on your shoulders. If your abs/lower back is weak, you get a bunch of rounding of the torso which is a cunt hair away of basically collapsing. If the abs/lower back is strong, they will keep your torso or CORE straight and stabilized. Your upper back and traps serve as stabilizers too making sure the bar doesnt move.

If your shoulders, either the posterior or anterior are moving in any sort of way, that bar is going to break that fuckign neck of yours in a hurry.

not sure what you mean by that.


Deadlift: This one is a doozy. The legs have similiar duties as the squat, but it depends on the type of deadlift being done. Hamstrings are more dominant in this exercise, however.

Depends on how low you start the lift. All of the hip extensors need to be really strong on this lift.


Only this time, your upper body works differently than before. Your forearms have to be strong enough to lift that bar off the ground, yes? Your traps now serve as major stabilizers cuz they help keep the shoulders back and back arched.

Traps, rhoboids and all scapular stabilizers keep the shoulder back. Erectors (illiocostalis, longisimus and spinalis) keep the back arched as well as some help from the quadratus lumborum.

Your abs/lower back are once again keeping everything straight. Your glutes final movement mimic the movement of you fucking someone (in stroke )

As you can see, these movements call on a lot of muscles because the body should be TIGHT where movement is not merited. That takes muscular strength and endurance to do correctly. Because the rewards are so great, the demands for such form is so high and thus, is avoided by beginners cuz theyre harder to execute than a barbell curl.

Someone correct me or agree...might be just a matter of opinion, but I believe there is more total body strength going on in deadlifts than in squats. Either way, theyre pretty damn close.
anatomy.


Posted by: fufu

good stuff P-Funk


Posted by: AKIRA

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-funk View Post
anatomy.
<ahem> physiology

For some reason I do always confuse "hip" with "knee" when thinking about movement. When I made that post, I kept thinking...hip AKIRA, hip! But you cleared that up nicely.

How does the ab summarization confuse you? I wasnt as technical (obviously), but the idea is still there.


Posted by: P-funk

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKIRA View Post
<ahem> physiology

For some reason I do always confuse "hip" with "knee" when thinking about movement. When I made that post, I kept thinking...hip AKIRA, hip! But you cleared that up nicely.

How does the ab summarization confuse you? I wasnt as technical (obviously), but the idea is still there.
what confused me was this one:

"If your shoulders, either the posterior or anterior are moving in any sort of way, that bar is going to break that fuckign neck of yours in a hurry."

Not sure what you mean by if your shoulders move in any sort of way.


Posted by: AKIRA

I was touching base how the upper body has to remain tight. For example, I was thinking of the latter where the bar rolled forward or backward off of rookies' shoulders on YouTube cuz they didnt know where the placement should be.


Posted by: P-funk

oh. i gotcha.


Posted by: nbako2

Squats Ftw!



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