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Dips

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Posted by: UFC rocks

hi guys i have a few questions on dips.

1) can i gain mass from dips, i known it is a great mass builder for the triceps, but will it also help put mass on the chest aswell?

2) On most exercise i do, i really start to feel the muscle working in the last few reps, for example if i do a set of 10 then usally the first 5 reps are easy, then it starts geting hard and i start to feel the muscle really work,then in the last 2-3 rep i really feel the muscle work, (i think this is normal) so to sumarise on all exercises i feel it more and more as the reps go on. but with dips as soon as i down for the first rep i feel it in the chest sraight away. it's not that i find them hard because i can do 20 reps. when doing dips the triceps act as normall, i start to feel the triceps really working on the last few reps, but the chest on the first rep, does any one know why this is?

3) i know that pump is not everything and that even if you never get a pump you can still grow muscel. but does it work the other way round, if you do get a pump does that definitely mean you are working the muscle well and it will grow. i read a post befor once and some ome was asking about the pump, someone replyed by saying something like this, if i get 50lbs dumbells and curl them for 8-12 reps and dont get much of a pump it will still be better for growing muscle than geting 5lbs dumbells and curling them for 100 reps and getting the best pump of your life. but what i am asking is if say in the 8-12 rep range and get a really good pump in the chest from doing weighted dips will this pump mean the chest will grow.

the reason i asked these questions is because i get a great workout for the chest from doing dips, rather than bench press. thanks in advance


Posted by: Gazhole

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
hi guys i have a few questions on dips.
1) can i gain mass from dips, i known it is a great mass builder for the triceps, but will it also help put mass on the chest aswell?
Its not a tricep movement, its a compound movement. It will stimulate the muscles involved as much as any other movement will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
2) On most exercise i do, i really start to feel the muscle working in the last few reps, for example if i do a set of 10 then usally the first 5 reps are easy, then it starts geting hard and i start to feel the muscle really work,then in the last 2-3 rep i really feel the muscle work, (i think this is normal) so to sumarise on all exercises i feel it more and more as the reps go on. but with dips as soon as i down for the first rep i feel it in the chest sraight away. it's not that i find them hard because i can do 20 reps. when doing dips the triceps act as normall, i start to feel the triceps really working on the last few reps, but the chest on the first rep, does any one know why this is?
How long have you been doing dips? If youve only recently started doing them you're probably just not as good at them as you are at something like benching. Personally i think theyre just a more difficult movement anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
3) i know that pump is not everything and that even if you never get a pump you can still grow muscel. but does it work the other way round, if you do get a pump does that definitely mean you are working the muscle well and it will grow. i read a post befor once and some ome was asking about the pump, someone replyed by saying something like this, if i get 50lbs dumbells and curl them for 8-12 reps and dont get much of a pump it will still be better for growing muscle than geting 5lbs dumbells and curling them for 100 reps and getting the best pump of your life. but what i am asking is if say in the 8-12 rep range and get a really good pump in the chest from doing weighted dips will this pump mean the chest will grow.
Pump has absolutely NO bearing on whether you are having a good workout, working the muscles enough, or anything else. Pump is just blood going to a muscle. I rarely get pumps from anything, and the only times i do is when i do an absurd amount of reps.

What that person was saying with their example, is that you should judge your program's effectiveness not by the pump but by something else like progressive overload and PRs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
the reason i asked these questions is because i get a great workout for the chest from doing dips, rather than bench press. thanks in advance
Whats the problem then? If you get a good workout from doing dips what else do you need. Benching isnt the be all and end all of pressing movements.

Dont sweat it.


Posted by: XFatMan

1.) You can gain mass with every single exercise - provided you're doing them right.
2.) My personal view is that if you can't feel the target muscle doing the work, you're doing something wrong. Dips are hard. If I'm not very wrong, you're a beginner. And that being the fact, I doubt that you can do 20 dips with acceptable form and speed.
3.) The pump has absolutely nothing to do with growth or a muscle being worked well, or whatever. It's simply trapped blood. And a five-pound dumbbell is not exactly weight enough to stimulate muscle growth - even if you can curl it 1,000 times.

Personal opinion: The Bench Press is a better mass builder than the Chest Dip. But stepping a bit further: Dumbbell Bench Presses give you a greater range of motion, which in turn means you can move only lower weights than with barbells. That's an even greater stimuli for the muscle. But that's just my opinion.


Posted by: UFC rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazhole View Post
How long have you been doing dips?If youve only recently started doing them you're probably just not as good at them as you are at something like benching. Personally i think theyre just a more difficult movement anyway.

i never really use to do them properly, just every now and again, but the thing is i am good at them, because i can do 20 reps, what i dont get is if i can do 20 reps then the frist 10 or so should be no problem, but as soon as i go down for the first rep i straight away feel it on the chest.

Whats the problem then? If you get a good workout from doing dips what else do you need. Benching isnt the be all and end all of pressing movements.

i guess your right, i think that as long as i keep progressing on them i will keep doing them. oh by the way what part of the chest gets worked from doing dips, on one of my threads someone said dips work the outher part of the chest, but i mainly feel it in the centre.



Posted by: UFC rocks

man i cant work out how to used these quotes right.


Posted by: UFC rocks

[quote=XFatMan;1725622]2.)
If I'm not very wrong, you're a beginner. And that being the fact, I doubt that you can do 20 dips with acceptable form and speed.

QUOTE]

just because i am new to the site does not mean i am a begginer, i have been working out for close to 2 years. i did 19 reps on dips just a few hours ago, first thing for my pust day, i said 20 just to round it of, sorry should have been honist, form was good i dont really think you can cheat on dips, as far as speed goes i will be honist i didnt really foucus on going down slowly, but still i did get 19 reps.


Posted by: XFatMan

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
just because i am new to the site does not mean i am a begginer, i have been working out for close to 2 years. i did 19 reps on dips just a few hours ago, first thing for my pust day, i said 20 just to round it of, sorry should have been honist, form was good i dont really think you can cheat on dips, as far as speed goes i will be honist i didnt really foucus on going down slowly, but still i did get 19 reps.
Actually, it was your question that made me think you're a beginner.

Right, you can't really cheat on dips, but some people do 20 reps in 10 seconds.


Posted by: KelJu

I LOVE DIPS!

They are my favorite upper body exercise. Gaz is dead on, it is not a triceps movement. It is a compound exercise...hell I believe they are the squat of the upper body. I didn't make that up, I read it somewhere. Dips will add some serious size to your arms if you are dedicated, but they will also strengthen your chest.


Posted by: UFC rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFatMan View Post
Right, you can't really cheat on dips, but some people do 20 reps in 10 seconds.
Maybe those people dont go to parrel arms and dont lock out at the top. but then that is not range full of motion, not cheating. take biceps curls for example is someone only curls half way up that is not full range of motion, not cheating, cheating would be swinging with your back.

what i am saying is that i dont really think you can cheat to make dips easlier to do, it not like curling were you can swing, because you have to push your own weight up.

please correct me if i am wrong, if there is a way to cheat then could you tell what it is to make sure i am not doing it. by the way whos says they can dip 20 reps in 10 seconds, have you seen it, and if so how were they cheating.


Posted by: Elson

is it better to tuck your arms back or flare them out? i put my arms somewhere in between but not sure if it makes a difference. read somewhere that dips are good to hit your pectoralis minor. i also put a 25 lb plate on my thighs and feet on a Swiss ball so when i do them i have to stabilize my shoulders and core. Anything wrong with that?


Posted by: XFatMan

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
what i am saying is that i dont really think you can cheat to make dips easlier to do, ...
Aw boy, you should see some guys in my gym. They move down, and for the up movement, they bounce their feet off the floor because otherwise they couldn't make it. A rep hardly ever takes more than one second - two max. I call that cheating. Others have a 2-inch range of motion to "make the dips easier to do". I call that cheating, too. Limited range of motion has its place, but they do it that way because they don't know better - and that's a huge difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
by the way whos says they can dip 20 reps in 10 seconds, have you seen it, and if so how were they cheating.
Nobody. I have seen people doing this. Which included bouncing their feet off the floor, etc., etc. If that ain't cheating, I'm the Pope.


Posted by: UFC rocks

XFatMan - good point, thanks. if i can work out how to attach videos to the thread then for my next push day i will record my first set of dips and try and post it. one more question - i know that most people are much stronger in pushing movements, then they are in there pulling movements. for example if someone can bench press 200lbs, they wont be able to do barbell rows with the same weight. so i think it is normall to be better on dips then, pullups. for this reason i dont expect my self to be doing the same number of reps for dips and pullups. but i still think i am weaker than normall for pullups, because if i can do 19 dips then does that mean i should be doing about 10 pullups. i can only do 6 full range of motion wide grip pullups. is there a average ratio for dips and pullups for example half the number of dips for pullups, i.e. 20 dips so that means 10 pullups, is there a average push/pull ratio.

thanks in adavance.


Posted by: XFatMan

You're pretty right on the money in terms of pushing / pulling. But I don't have any idea if there is any ratio. I do know that I'm much weaker than you are. I can do 12 strict dips, but I can only do 3 strict pull up. So that makes my dip -pull-up ratio 4 : 1, right?


Posted by: Gazhole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elson View Post
is it better to tuck your arms back or flare them out? i put my arms somewhere in between but not sure if it makes a difference. read somewhere that dips are good to hit your pectoralis minor. i also put a 25 lb plate on my thighs and feet on a Swiss ball so when i do them i have to stabilize my shoulders and core. Anything wrong with that?
I would keep them close to your body. If you flare them a little bit there is a chance they will completely flare and to you an injury.


Posted by: Gazhole

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
I LOVE DIPS!

They are my favorite upper body exercise. Gaz is dead on, it is not a triceps movement. It is a compound exercise...hell I believe they are the squat of the upper body. I didn't make that up, I read it somewhere. Dips will add some serious size to your arms if you are dedicated, but they will also strengthen your chest.
Who the hell said that "squat of the upper body" thing? Lol. Thats one thing i say a lot to people, its a great analogy but i really cant remember who here said it.


Posted by: Witchblade

Dips are the squats of the upper body!
Pull-ups are the squats of the upper body!

...


Posted by: ALBOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFatMan View Post
Personal opinion: The Bench Press is a better mass builder than the Chest Dip. But stepping a bit further: Dumbbell Bench Presses give you a greater range of motion, which in turn means you can move only lower weights than with barbells. That's an even greater stimuli for the muscle. But that's just my opinion.

Can't agree 100% on this.

#1 The reason you say DB's are better for bench pressing is the same thing that makes dips a better mass builder than using a bar; range of motion. You can get a better range of motion on dips than you can by doing bench presses with a bar.

#2 It's much easier to incorporate high intensity techniques such as negative reps when doing dips because you don't need a training partner.

#3 Hand position has a lot to do with where the stress is placed. (And this is different for everyone.) In my case, when using a straight bar more stress is placed on my front delts than on my pecs. But when using DB's or doing dips I can position my hands so that my palms face each other and I can hit my pecs much better.

Bottom line; dips are an AWESOME chest exercise and, for some people, can completely replace bench presses.


Posted by: Gazhole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchblade View Post
Dips are the squats of the upper body!
Pull-ups are the squats of the upper body!

...
Pullups arent a pressing movement


Posted by: KelJu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazhole View Post
Pullups arent a pressing movement
Thats what I was thinking. Pull-Ups would be the deadlift of the upper body.


Posted by: ALBOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
Thats what I was thinking. Pull-Ups would be the deadlift of the upper body.

I thought the deadlift was the deadlift of the upper body???


Posted by: XFatMan

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBOB View Post
#1 The reason you say DB's are better for bench pressing is the same thing that makes dips a better mass builder than using a bar; range of motion. You can get a better range of motion on dips than you can by doing bench presses with a bar.
That is pretty convincing, you're right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBOB View Post
#3 Hand position has a lot to do with where the stress is placed. (And this is different for everyone.) In my case, when using a straight bar more stress is placed on my front delts than on my pecs. But when using DB's or doing dips I can position my hands so that my palms face each other and I can hit my pecs much better.
That's why I prefer Dips to Dumbbell Presses and Dumbbell Presses to Barbell Presses. The relative chest-bar position also plays a role.


Posted by: Witchblade

That's not the point. The point is that 'squat of the upper body' is a non statement, especially if you take it so literally that you want to compare upper and lower body movements and align them in pairs. What makes dips better than the bench press or military press? What makes pull-ups better than barbell rows or face-pulls?


Posted by: KelJu

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBOB View Post
I thought the deadlift was the deadlift of the upper body???
Deadlift is legs, hips, and lower back.


Posted by: UFC rocks

bench press with barbells or dumbbell, and pushups work the chest, triceps and shoulders. dips work the triceps and chest, but do they also work the shoulders? also when people say bench press with the barbell or dumbbells and pushups work the shoulders, is it all the delts of just the front delts. thanks for all replys you guys are great, keep up the good work.


Posted by: fUnc17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchblade View Post
That's not the point. The point is that 'squat of the upper body' is a non statement, especially if you take it so literally that you want to compare upper and lower body movements and align them in pairs. What makes dips better than the bench press or military press? What makes pull-ups better than barbell rows or face-pulls?
What makes a bicep curl better than a pullup?

Goals.


Posted by: ALBOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
Deadlift is legs, hips, and lower back.
Sorry, I forgot to add the sarcasm smiley.


Posted by: Elson

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFC rocks View Post
bench press with barbells or dumbbell, and pushups work the chest, triceps and shoulders. dips work the triceps and chest, but do they also work the shoulders? also when people say bench press with the barbell or dumbbells and pushups work the shoulders, is it all the delts of just the front delts. thanks for all replys you guys are great, keep up the good work.
dips work all three im sure as i feel them hitting everywhere...benching hits mostly anterior delts and a little lateral in terms of shoulders...think rows do the trick for posterior


Posted by: KelJu

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBOB View Post
Sorry, I forgot to add the sarcasm smiley.
Gotcha!







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