scheduling compounds [Forum Archive]

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scheduling compounds

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Posted by: natural^

hello i posted a similar thread about my horrible training routines and got info from P and bigg. but im not really sure where to match up the big compound movements in my workout routines.

sat: widegrip pullups,barbell curl,barbell rows,lat pulldowns *deadlifts?*
rest
mon:closed grip BP,tri pushdowns, dips, widegrip BP,skullcrushers *insert compound movement?*
rest
wed:lunges, good mornings, leg curl, leg press *squats?*

i accidently did squats with my tri/chest workout, should i squat again on ym leg day? feedback on whether im balancing out my compund/isolation workouts would be much appreciated along with any other exercises or routines.

Posted by: Built

natural, have a look at what Irons and Nadir are doing - you may like it.

It's a four-day split based around movement patterns and lead by heavy compounds followed by concentration work.

You interested?

You can read about it here on my blog, or here, with my other publications.

The one on my blog has been updated a bit.

Posted by: natural^

thanks built, thats a very interesting blog, along with the 2 random 'pwnd' avatars haha. but in all seriousness, it looks like something that i would definitly try in the summer. right now, i work and am starting to prep up for exams and what not, so a 3 day split would be more ideal for me at the moment. im soakin in the compound workout info and focsuing less on iso movements.

is it wise to squat only once a week? or can i fit it into another day as well?

Posted by: Triple Threat

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural^

a 3 day split would be more ideal for me at the moment.

Push/Pull/Legs would work.
So would full-body 3 times a week.
Also, an upper/lower split like this:
Week 1 - upper, lower, upper
Week 2 - lower, upper, lower
Week 3 - repeat cycle

Posted by: Built

I have links to EXRX in there and they keep getting pwned - which means I do, sadly.

Okay, three days.

Well, I'll offer you my current setup:

Basically, it's a three-day for the lifting, with a forth day for hill repeats (cardio only). I sometimes toss a yoga class between days 1 and 2, but that's lower back and hip-stretching 'cause I'm an old lady. I don't really think of it as a workout; it's more of a massage.
Within the three workouts, you can still see the structure of quad and ham dominant work balanced off with pushing and pulling in orthogonal planes. Now keep in mind I'm cutting, so my volume is low and I'm not bothering with direct bicep and tricep work, but you can easily see where to add these in:

Monday
Workout 1:
quad dominant with vertical pushing (front squats, lighter front squats, Oly bar shoulder press, arnies);
HIIT + ss cardio (treadmill sprints, hamstring focus)

Tuesday
Yoga or rest/casual walking

Wednesday:
Off

Thursday:
Workout 2
cleans/clean and press with vertical pulling (cleans/clean and press, weighted chins, hammerstrength "spiderman" lat work or unweighted chins, weighted ab work);
HIIT + ss cardio to total 20 minutes (recumbent bicycle sprints aka "8 seconds of doom", quad focus)

Friday:
Workout 3
horizontal pushing with deads/ham dominant work (bb bench, dumbbell incline bench with bands, RDLs, split squats);
HIIT + ss cardio to total 20 minutes (complexes, full body metabolic work)

Saturday or Sunday:
Hill repeats for 20-40 minutes (described in my cardio article)

Notes:
Some of the work I do in straight sets, some as antagonist pairs. This varies organically, depending on the availability of equipment, and also whether or not I'm particularly pressed for time.

Diet:
I'm dieting a little differently this cut - I'm fiddling with VERY high calories on the 3 training days, basically PSMF levels on the off days. The differential is about 2500/1200, which works out to about 1700-1800 calories on average. While this represents about a 15% deficit for me, the training days are always over maintenance - kinda sweet while cutting! So far, it translates to me not feeling like I'm overtraining from the lifting/interval work I do three days a week - I have a ton of food on lifting days and plenty of time to recover on the down days.

Kinda nice always training really well-fed during a cut. So far, seems quite comfortable - and effective. As an added perk, I seem to be able to manage without tracking: PSMF-level rations completely kill my appetite, and if I don't eat stupid, I naturally seen to settle at around 2500 calories if I eat to satiety (but not beyond) on my "usual" food choices.

_______________________________________

Now, to tailor this to suit you, you can increase the volume a bit - so something like this:

Workout 1:
quad dominant with vertical pushing (front squats, lighter front squats, Oly bar shoulder press, arnies);

5x5 heavy ass to floor free squats
3x8 front squats (also free and below parallel)
5x5 military press
3x8 Oly bar corner press (like a t-bar, but you face the corner and push UP with one arm)
3x12 Arnies
If you like...
Toss in 3x10 standing alternating bicep curls

Workout 2
cleans/clean and press with vertical pulling (cleans/clean and press, weighted chins, hammerstrength "spiderman" lat work or unweighted chins, weighted ab work);

power cleans
5x5 push presses or split jerks
5x5 weighted chins - NO WIDER THAN SHOULDER WIDTH! Wider does NOT build width - it just trashes your rotator cuffs!
3x8 one arm lat pulls, or hammerstrength pulldowns done with alternating arms, like you're crawling up a wall (AKA "Spidermans")
3x8-12 weighted bosu-ball crunches (sit on edge of bosu near floor, lie back, anchor feet if needed, place dumbbell on its end on your chest, sit to less than halfway up, plant your face on the ceiling and hold, lower all the way down, fully rest, repeat...

If you like...

toss in 3x10 standing calf raises, hold for three seconds at the bottom of EACH REP.
Toss in 3x10 close grip bench press or weighted dips for triceps (biceps will be fried from the chins)

Workout 3
horizontal pushing with deads/ham dominant work (bb bench, dumbbell incline bench with bands, RDLs, split squats);

5x5 deadlifts or Romanian deads or rack pulls
3x8 T-bars or one arm heavy rows or pendlay rows...
3x8 barbell split squats (like lunges, but all one leg, then all the other leg. Optionally you could do walking lunges here)
5x5 heavy bb bench or incline bb bench
3x8 dips if you didn't do them on the last workout.
3x8 flat or incline dumbbell bench
3x15 seated calves, pause at the bottom of each rep for 3 seconds.

_______________________________________

My rationale for this is to keep the heavy compounds in low rep ranges, then to do the higher rep stuff for accessory/concentration/unilateral work.
You can read more about this from Thibaudeau.

Helpful at all?

Posted by: natural^

wow, thats very helpful built, thanks! i will try it out next week.

as a sidenote, wider chins aren't effective? ive read on several sites that wider is mroe beneficial, not to doubt you or anything just wondering whats the most effective

Posted by: Irons77

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural^

wow, thats very helpful built, thanks! i will try it out next week.

as a sidenote, wider chins aren't effective? ive read on several sites that wider is mroe beneficial, not to doubt you or anything just wondering whats the most effective

This "Built" chick will kick you in the ass. Ok, now you are warned. Wider then the shoulder can cause damage to your shoulders.

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural^

It is a persistent myth, and it refuses to die, but no, wide grips don't build width.

Think about it. Why would they? You are pulling with the lat. If you pull straight down, you are using lat and bicep, right?

Now reach out and at an angle. What happens when you take a force and spread it out over a rise and a run? Part gets taken up by the rise, and part by the run - and in this case, the "run" gets taken up by the rotator cuff.

Next time you're at the gym, try something. Grab one of those stirrup attachments - the ones you use for crossover cables. Hook it up to the lat pulldown pulley and do one-arm pulldowns. You can reach out and up, then pull it RIGHT into your torso, right? Crunch your abdomen down over your hip when you do to get a really full ROM? Feel a lat pump?

Now, try to mimic that movement with both arms at once.

You can't, right? Notice the lack of flexion in your lats? Notice your shoulders limiting you? Do they hurt?

That's why I do my chins at shoulder-width and narrower, weighted, in low reps to really pull as large a load straight down onto my lats as possible.

And that's why I do my higher-rep lat work one arm at a time, to get full flexion and ROM into the side I'm working to pump it full of blood after the heavy moving from the weighted chins.

You'll still see plenty of arguments for wider grip. But I doubt any of them will consider trigonometry in the argument!

Meanwhile, you'll be enjoying your killer taper... and you'll still have rotator cuffs that work!

PS avoid upright rows. Similar reason.

Posted by: natural^

wouldnt doubt that she could haha. and alright thanks, hard to weed out the phony info from the real info.

Posted by: Irons77

I'm on one of her cut routine and it rocks bro! Brutal but feels good after a few days of soreness.

Posted by: natural^

haha yeah that makes sense, they need to have a mythbusters for bodybuilders

and iron-yeah cant wait to start it next week, brutal = good!

Posted by: Built

It is REALLY hard to weed out the bad shit.

I put everything good I can find into my articles and my blog. You'll find when you do a lot of reading, the good stuff converges into patterns.

It DOES get easier to figure out what to avoid over time. But after all these years, I still learn something new every day.

Posted by: natural^

yeah no lie, looks like i will become an avid blog reader of built

Posted by: Irons77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

It is REALLY hard to weed out the bad shit.

I put everything good I can find into my articles and my blog. You'll find when you do a lot of reading, the good stuff converges into patterns.

It DOES get easier to figure out what to avoid over time. But after all these years, I still learn something new every day.

That's the wheels of life. Once you stop learning your done

Posted by: natural^

oh how i wish i was there

Posted by: Built

Read the people I reference. Then read the people THEY reference.

I'll give you a short list to start with, in no particular order:

Lyle McDonald
Christian Thibaudeau
Ian King
Charles Pollequin
John Berardi
Paul Chek
Erik Ledin
Dave Barr
Dave Tate
Joel Marion
Eric Cressy
Mike Robertson
Alwyn Cosgrove
Krista Scott (stumptuous)

Note that nobody will agree 100% with ANY of these writers. But these are people whose information has shaped my thoughts and from whom I have incorporated strategies and methods to achieve what I set out to do when I was a fat 38 year old jogger who was tired of doing shit that wasn't working.

Happy reading...

Posted by: chris mason

You might try the following:

Mon-
legs (squats)
chest
back
abs

Wed-
shoulders
arms
lower back (deads, stiffs, etc)
calves

Fri-
legs (leg press or the like)
chest (different exercises than Mon)
back
abs
calves

I would suggest 1-2 exercises per body part per day with 2-4 working sets.

If you want a bit more detail let me know.

Chris

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