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Originally Posted by thewicked
you will absolutley LOVE this stuff. I've never been a creatine or creatine blended fan until I gave ALN's Results a LEGIT shot.. in two weeks as advertised I started noticing a difference. I love it so much now that I'll take it until it's no longer being made!
the nausea happens when you hit it hard and have anything in your stomach before your workouts in general. Hell even drinking gatorade makes me nauseous. I've just started taking my results in the morning with my Nitrean shakes and still feel the same in training. what flavor did you get? Orange blast is damn tasty..but i'm in LOVE with cherry blast! Stick with it luci..trust me...out of all of us lifters that take it...not one of us has wanted to stop using it. |
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Originally Posted by workingatit43
I will be following
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Awesome!
As Wicked said, it is more important to use it daily than the actual timing of use. You can take it with a meal if you prefer. Oh, and it takes about 10 days to fully kick-in for most. At that point you should be hitting PRs left and right! Chris |
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
4/30/08
Day 2Nothing new to report, I took my serving of RESULTS about an hour and a half before training and did not have any nausea, so I think that's gonna be my target now. Training went well, nothing spectacular, but a good session: Chest & Tri's: Low Incline Bench: 135 x 10 225 x 10 245 x 8, 8, 5 Low Incline DB Press: 60's x 10, 10, 9 Skull Crushers: 85 x 10, 9, 6 1/2 (heh, failure) Press Downs: 80 x 8, 8, 7 Crunches:25, 15 5/1/08 Day 3 No weights tonight! I'll be taking my RESULTS as directed. I feel good, just a little more run down than usual. I haven't gotten much sleep so far this week and as a result I'm really looking forward to not training tonight! LOL I'm looking forward to the 'kick in' (for lack of a better term). Stronger is always good... hopefully some size will come along with it ! |
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Originally Posted by workingatit43
Nice workout bro
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Originally Posted by workingatit43
Nice workout bro
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Originally Posted by tomuchgear
sounds like things are going well.
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
Day 4
5/2/08 Howdy folks. Checking in , nothing to report yet. The only thing 'different' is that muscle soreness seems to be lasting an inordinate amount of time. My legs and chest are still sore from this weeks previous workouts. Nothing too terrible, just noticeable. I only mention it because I normally only feel sore for a day, if I get sore at all anymore. Anyway, moving right along... A nice torture session tonight. Chins: 8, 8, 8 Wide Grip Pulldowns: 80 x 10 180 x 4, 5, 5, 4 Neutral Grip Pulldowns: 80 x 15 (drop) 65 x 15 (drop) 50 x 15 Stiff Arm Pulldowns: 50 x 12 55 x 10 60 x 8 EZ Bar Curls: 85 x 9 95 x 6 (neg) 95 x 5 (neg) Single Arm Preachers: 40's x 5, 5, 5 (drop) 30's x 5 (drop) 20's x 7 (drop) 15's x 8 -ouch- |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
My guess is that the soreness is from the extra push the product gives you in the gym. As I mentioned, some of the ingredients take a bit longer to kick-in. When that occurs you should also notice improved recovery.
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Originally Posted by thewicked
yeah chris is right..it takes about two weeks or a little longer to get it kicked in but once it gets kicked it it's AWESOME! Might check into ETS from ALN too.. I take both..and the soreness for me only lasts into the next day and that's IF I have a BRUTAL workout the day before. I don't feel anything from my typical workouts now soreness wise.. even when i ramp the weights up. Keep this log up! You're kickin some ass in here luci!
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S.D.M.F.
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Originally Posted by katt
Nice!! I'm looking forward to starting my thread on the freebie I received!!
Looks like the Results is workin' for ya! |
i should try some new supps when we get back from our vacation in june. is there one that will give me big calves like yours?
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Originally Posted by katt
I have a couple things going on in the next couple days, so my first day will be Monday.. I'm taking Nitor At Large Nutrition - Nitor - The Ultimate Fat Burner because I'm cutting..
I'm excited to try it!! |
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Originally Posted by workingatit43
This is a very good and detailed log bro
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Originally Posted by the other half
great "pr's". you werent just holdin out on us, were you?
i should try some new supps when we get back from our vacation in june. is there one that will give me big calves like yours? |
| YouTube Video | |
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
Maybe you can answer this for me, Chris.
What makes RESULTS that much better than other creatines such as Cell Mass or SizeOn for isntance? |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
The ingredients and their dosing. None of the products you mentioned contain creatine, beta alanine, and HMB. RESULTS does, plus dextrose to drive the creatine delivery. Each of the ingredients in RESULTS is included at lab proven levels which is another big difference between it and many other products. We also don't confuse the label, you can cleary see exactly what is in our product and at what dose.
Chris |
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
Day 9
5/8/08 Neutral Grip Chins: BW x 8, 8, 6 Rack Pulls: 245 x 5 275 x 5 315 x 5 325 x 4 PR Bent Over Rows: 155 10 165 x 10, 10 PR Dumbell Rows: 70's x 8, 8, 8 Standing Barbell Curls: 95 x 6 100 x 5, 4 (dropped down to 45 lbs for a set of 21's) Hammer curls: 40's x 7, 7, 7 drop set: 30's x 4, 25's x 4, 20's x 4, 15's x 4 Session went very well again. I dunno if it's the dextrose or what, but I've started breaking out with acne like I was a sophmore in highschool. Very irritating. Seriously? That's it? Nothing else sneaking around in this stuff? I gotta be honest with ya Chris, if I wasn't the one actually experiencing this, I doubt I'd believe a word of it. Admittedly I've never used HMB before, but I find it tough to attribute these results (pun not intended) to just that along with sugar, creatine, and b-ala.... I'm not complaining or anything, just curious. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Good job on the military press!
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one of the most intimidating lifts I've ever done
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Originally Posted by katt
Wow... after looking at all your PR's, I'm seriously going to have to try this.!
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Originally Posted by chris mason
As we say, give it 10 days and PR city!
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Originally Posted by chris mason
The ingredients and their dosing. None of the products you mentioned contain creatine, beta alanine, and HMB. RESULTS does, plus dextrose to drive the creatine delivery. Each of the ingredients in RESULTS is included at lab proven levels which is another big difference between it and many other products. We also don't confuse the label, you can cleary see exactly what is in our product and at what dose.
Chris |
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Originally Posted by dg806
Chris, when you mention lab proven levels, do you have info that you could share on that? I would be interested in seeing that.
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
My only 'complaint' is the acne it seems to be causing.
That's just my neck... it's on my chest, shoulder's, and head as well. I'm 34, and I've never broken out like this, not even from pro-hormone/AAS use. I figure it's gotta be the sugar ... |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Well, yes and no. I have a few studies which we paid for that I cannot publish. I can give you a link to a free abstract:
Creatine and beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB...[Nutrition. 2001 Jul-Aug] - PubMed Result |
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Originally Posted by nni
also why use hmb instead of leucine?
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Originally Posted by Prince
how would that be the same?
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Originally Posted by nni
if you paid for a study why wouldnt it be published? also why use hmb instead of leucine?
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Originally Posted by chris mason
No, you misunderstand, I paid for the study therefore I cannot provide a free link to it. In order to read the study I had to pay for it.
HMB is a leucine metabolite. A metabolite and that from which is it derived do not necessarily produce the same effects. In addition, there is the issue of quantity. |
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Originally Posted by nni
oh, sorry, was confused about the study part.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Yep, that is the only thing I can think of.
Ahhh well, a small price to pay for PRs baby! Oh, and just an FYI for anyone reading this, the vast majority of its users will not get a breakout from said use. |
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Originally Posted by the other half
numbers keep going up, that awesome.
i take tribulus and dhea, and i break out alot like that. but like chris said, its a small price to pay for added strenght and size. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
No, you misunderstand, I paid for the study therefore I cannot provide a free link to it. In order to read the study I had to pay for it.
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Originally Posted by dg806
Trying to understand............you paid to have access to a study done by someone else??
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Originally Posted by dg806
Trying to understand............you paid to have access to a study done by someone else??
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S.D.M.F.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Right. There was a study done on some of the ingredients I was considering for the product and it was not available online for free. I had to purchase it.
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"Forty healthy male subjects 19 to 23 y old were enrolled into the study. All had been involved in prior exercise but none were highly trained. Potential subjects were excluded from the study if they had evidence or history of any disease, recent joint or bone injury, or obesity. Subjects also were excluded if they had participated in resistance-exercise programs in the previous 6 mo or had consumed HMB or CR in the previous 3 mo before the study"
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Originally Posted by Built
DG, I have a copy of the full study if you'd like to see it.
"Forty healthy male subjects 19 to 23 y old were enrolled into the study. All had been involved in prior exercise but none were highly trained. Potential subjects were excluded from the study if they had evidence or history of any disease, recent joint or bone injury, or obesity. Subjects also were excluded if they had participated in resistance-exercise programs in the previous 6 mo or had consumed HMB or CR in the previous 3 mo before the study" HMB appears to work well on untrained/detrained subjects, particularly with the addition of the known ergogens dextrose and creatine. On well-conditioned athletes, HMB's efficacy has not been established. However, with 80g of dextrose to spike insulin, my feeling is that previous creatine "non-responders" may be finally enjoying the benefits now that sufficient dextrose is driving it in - a clear gain due to this product. Not to mention the addition of over 300 calories. |
not so good
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Originally Posted by nni
there is actually a study with well trained athletes, so the effects have been established.
not so good |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Yep, that is the only thing I can think of.
Ahhh well, a small price to pay for PRs baby! Oh, and just an FYI for anyone reading this, the vast majority of its users will not get a breakout from said use. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
There are also several studies (or reviews of studies) showing it to be effective.
Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) ...[Nutr Metab (Lond). 2008] - PubMed Result http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
There are also several studies (or reviews of studies) showing it to be effective.
Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) ...[Nutr Metab (Lond). 2008] - PubMed Result |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Here is a bit more about HMB...
Quote:
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The first purpose of this paper was to provide an in depth and objective analysis of HMB research. While various studies analyzed in this manuscript support the efficacy of HMB as an effective ergogenic aid for athletes that decreases DOMS, markers of muscle damage, and body fat, while increasing various markers of performance, including LBM and strength in resistance trained athletes, and OBLA and VO2 peak in endurance trained athletes, a number of studies analyzed did not support the efficacy of HMB supplementation. The current authors suggest that these conflicting results may in part be attributed to the variability in humans, inadequate sample sizes, and methodological issues such as the specificity of testing conditions, cases of overtraining, elicitation of an inadequate training stimulus in experienced participants, limited dependent variables, and short duration experiments. Collectively, these results warrant further research on HMB supplementation while taking into account these various issues. Tables 1 and 2 summarize the results from the HMB literature.
Table 1
Studies Which Support the Efficacy of HMB supplementation in Varying Populations
Table 2
Studies Which do not Support the Efficacy of HMB Supplementation in Varying Populations
There is compelling evidence that HMB supplementation may be useful for clinical muscle wasting conditions including AIDS, cancer, bed-rest, and during periods of caloric deficits. HMB also appears to be safe, and may improve various markers of health, including blood pressure and LDL-cholesterol. When supplementing with HMB, current evidence suggests that 1 g of HMB should be consumed 3 times per day, for a total of 3 g of HMB daily (or 38 mg/kg of bodyweight). However, more studies are needed to determine the optimal dosage and frequency of HMB supplementation, and the overall efficacy of HMB supplementation as an ergogenic aid for athletes.
The second purpose of this paper was to provide an in depth analysis of possible mechanisms that HMB may exert its effects. Results from this review showed that HMB appears to primarily exert its effects through protective and anticatabolic mechanism. The prevailing explanation is the cholesterol synthesis hypothesis. However, recent studies have shown that HMB's anticatabolic effects are at least in part mediated by attenuation of the activation and increased gene expression of the ubiquitin-pathway. Furthermore, there is evidence that HMB may directly increase protein synthesis.
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Originally Posted by nni
other than the first study from 2001, nothing significant is there.
as for the pubmed game, i hate this game, but i will paly, for you. Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate on aer...[Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007] - PubMed Result Regarding body composition, there were no significant differences. Effects of six weeks of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbu...[J Strength Cond Res. 2007] - PubMed Result HMB and HMBCr were concluded to have no ergogenic effect on muscular strength and endurance, leg power, or anthropometry when taken orally by highly trained male athletes over 6 weeks. hmb isnt new, i found it needs to be dosed above 10g to really see results, and at that point ill stick with leucine. |
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Originally Posted by Built
Since you are recycling your assertions, I'll respond with a recycled argument from your own board:
I read the first study you posted - the full version is available here: Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) on exercise performance and body composition across varying levels of age, sex, and training experience: A review Interesting overview. The authors conclude: The first purpose of this paper was to provide an in depth and objective analysis of HMB research. While various studies analyzed in this manuscript support the efficacy of HMB as an effective ergogenic aid for athletes that decreases DOMS, markers of muscle damage, and body fat, while increasing various markers of performance, including LBM and strength in resistance trained athletes, and OBLA and VO2 peak in endurance trained athletes, a number of studies analyzed did not support the efficacy of HMB supplementation. The current authors suggest that these conflicting results may in part be attributed to the variability in humans, inadequate sample sizes, and methodological issues such as the specificity of testing conditions, cases of overtraining, elicitation of an inadequate training stimulus in experienced participants, limited dependent variables, and short duration experiments. Collectively, these results warrant further research on HMB supplementation while taking into account these various issues. Tables 1 and 2 summarize the results from the HMB literature. <shrug> At least we know it's probably safe. I'd be interested to see how well a sugar-free version of results works. 80g of sugar is too rich for my budget. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
First, I am not playing a game? I posted what I did to show an alternative to your opinion.
Next, you are entitled to your opinion, but that does not preclude the fact RESULTS works exceptionally well and HMB is an integral component in the product. If I did not believe it was, I would remove it as it is relatively expensive and raises the price point of the product. If I thought it ineffective I could remove it and sell the product for significantly less and still make the same profit margin. I would be an idiot not to do that as more people will buy an effective product which costs less, no? My business acumen is relatively ok. Finally, you do not have ANY study which looks at HMB in the context of RESULTS. In other words, when it is combined with creatine and beta alanine. It would be ignorant to assume that HMB would have the same effects independently as it does in the context I have referenced. |
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Originally Posted by nni
the second study is with creatine, and through the mechanisms in which creatine, beta alanine and hmb work there really is no synergy. creatine is effective as is beta alanine, as are carbs. there is synergy between carbs and creatine, but the others work on their own. point is if a study shows hmb doesnt work on its own, adding the above isnt going to change that imo. but, take out the hmb and half the carbs and results looks good to me, add in 7grams of eaa's and i would make it a staple.
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Originally Posted by powerrack
Yo Chris,
Just curious, why do you keep telling us about your sponsored athletes loving the product. That doesn't really mean shit. If I was sponsered by you, I'd love Results too. If you put me on the Atlarge payroll and allotment list, I'd probably grab some Results too. You know those guys aren't gonna say any bad shit about the product, they are sponsored athletes, why would they ruin their sponsership? You think Ronnie Coleman is gonna say any f'd up shit about NO Xplode? No! I know business is business, but to most of us that are not teenagers anymore, we don't get all gay over hearing the names of well known atheltes linked to products that are provided by their sponser. I'm not saying it's not a decent product, I just think that bringing up the names of sponsered athletes every few threads is kinda gay, it doesn't really prove anything if they are using it or asking you for it. BTW, I love Nitrean, one of my favorite products out there. Tastes great, mixes well. Love it! Peace |
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Originally Posted by Built
Chris - I haven't said the product doesn't work - if you feel something from it and your clients like it, there may be something to it.
The facts are that the research is inconclusive at best, and that the product has a LOT of sugar for an ordinary lifter. For a 300-lb powerlifter, an assisted 6' tall male bodybuilder, or a skinny 19-year-old male on a bulk - perhaps not a problem. But for little old me,I'd need an insulin chaser! I've asked before - others have as well: how about a sugar-free version? |
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
Chris, nni, and built... no disrespect intended and pissing match aside, it really is a great product.
I'm already planning on ordering it again, however (in a nod to the opinions expressed by built and nni) I'll be cutting back to one scoop. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
As I have said over and over again, there is a reason the lifters at Westside, the strongest powerlifter on the planet Donnie Thompson, and the baddest powerlifter on the planet Chuch Vogelpohl ALL request the product... IT WORKS!!!
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Originally Posted by dg806
Chris, I say this with much respect and I don't want to get in a pissing match saying that it does or does not work. I'm sure it does to some degree. But if these guys you mention are world class atheletes, then I've never seen any that are not on something stronger (gear). So how can you relate their success with your product? I think if you are honest, you have to say that it's not related. But again, that's not saying your product doesn't work. I just want to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
Chris, nni, and built... no disrespect intended and pissing match aside, it really is a great product.
I'm already planning on ordering it again, however (in a nod to the opinions expressed by built and nni) I'll be cutting back to one scoop. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
I want to say this nicely and to not have you lose face in the process. I know you are both trying to educate and learn and I respect that.
First, whether or not HMB works by itself is something that is open to argument based upon various studies. I feel that it does, but could agree to disagree on that point. Now, IF you were correct and it did not work by itself that in no way indicates what it would do in concert with other ingredients and to make assumptions about it, especially when they fly in the face of empirical evidence, is just poor science. Chris |
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Originally Posted by Built
Chris - I haven't said the product doesn't work - if you feel something from it and your clients like it, there may be something to it.
The facts are that the research is inconclusive at best, and that the product has a LOT of sugar for an ordinary lifter. For a 300-lb powerlifter, an assisted 6' tall male bodybuilder, or a skinny 19-year-old male on a bulk - perhaps not a problem. But for little old me,I'd need an insulin chaser! I've asked before - others have as well: how about a sugar-free version? |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
No, the FACT is the product works extremely well as is evidenced by this log and that of nearly all of its users. Your comment about a 300 lbs powerlifter is really poor form.
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Originally Posted by nni
yeah, sorry to clutter up your thread, ill bow out and not clutter it up anymore.
im not worried about losing face, and feel confident in what i have offered. hmb is not new, it is not a giant mystery to understand how it works, and the other ingredients are not new. they work on their own towards a common goal, but no research has shown that creatine enhances BA, or ba enhances hmb etc. by no means do i expect you to agree, that would be foolish. i just wanted to chime in and did, and expressed my feelings over the product, now for the sake of the person whose thread this is, ill stop posting, but by no means does that change anything i said. |
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Originally Posted by nni
yeah, sorry to clutter up your thread, ill bow out and not clutter it up anymore.
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Nearly all power lifters who compete at a high level usually use gear. So somehow they're magically attributing PR's in the gym due to an over the counter supplement that doesn't have a single conclusive study behind the main ingredient... Does this fool anyone over the age of 12?
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
So basically,
through the studies that nni and built brought about in this thread, the BA and HMB are useless and monohydrate is an inferior creatine compared to other types? |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
If I thought it ineffective I could remove it and sell the product for significantly less and still make the same profit margin. I would be an idiot not to do that as more people will buy an effective product which costs less, no? My business acumen is relatively ok.
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
So basically,
through the studies that nni and built brought about in this thread, the BA and HMB are useless and monohydrate is an inferior creatine compared to other types? |
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
Creatine Monohydrate, while tried and true, is no longer the best available creatine option IMO.
Even with a sugar free supplement, why pay top dollar for a mediocre supplement? Gaspari Nutrition's SizeOn is cheaper and better for instance. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Not quite. There are a ton of creatine/dextrose supplements out there that use a combination of these two well known supplements. While your product costs more, it has a certain edge that all those other products don't have-the HMB and Beta. While you still maintain the same profit margin, you sell more total units-which leads to an overall increase in profit.
Nobody would buy your product if it was creatine, dextrose and Beta-because all of those products can be bought dirt cheap, and the overhead costs you would incur from combining them into your mixture wouldn't allow you to sell very much volume-because your costs would increase to the point where it would be stupid to pay for your product because you'd have to charge a higher than normal cost for otherwise dirt cheap products. Adding the HMB allows you to differentiate your product from others, and at the same time still charge a higher price than the separate ingredients purchased on their own. |
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
Creatine Monohydrate, while tried and true, is no longer the best available creatine option IMO.
Even with a sugar free supplement, why pay top dollar for a mediocre supplement? Gaspari Nutrition's SizeOn is cheaper and better for instance. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
You are wrong. I don't know what else to tell you. What you say is "dirt cheap" is still sold at a profit. You are not in the industry (obviously) and therefore have no idea what the true cost of the individual ingredients are. Your conjecture is inaccurate and it is foolish of you to state it as though it were fact.
You can believe what you want, and do what you want, that will not alter the fact RESULTS is a fantastic supplement for size and strength. I must say that I find it amusing that the naysayers in this thread are doing so in the face of a fellow member who is hitting PRs right and left. |
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Originally Posted by Built
Creatine monohydrate is tried and true, and the only kind I ever use. Cheap and proven effective.
BA appears to have some positive attributes, but I honestly don't know enough about it. HMB appears to have some utility under certain circumstances that have been tested under controlled conditions. Other carefully controlled studies have failed to demonstrate an effect. Something to be careful with here is that even if a study fails to demonstrate an effect, this is not proof that it does not have any. Neither is it true that an individual self-selecting to try a substance and reporting a positive result is proof of efficacy. The short answer with regard to HMB supplementation in healthy adult athletes is "we don't know". What we DO know is that HMB may be beneficial to people who are recovering from wasting disease, and that it is not dangerous in the dosing suggested in Results. And I am still interested in a sugar-free product. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Nearly all power lifters who compete at a high level usually use gear. So somehow they're magically attributing PR's in the gym due to an over the counter supplement that doesn't have a single conclusive study behind the main ingredient... Does this fool anyone over the age of 12?
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
So basically,
through the studies that nni and built brought about in this thread, the BA and HMB are useless and monohydrate is an inferior creatine compared to other types? |
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Originally Posted by nni
yeah, sorry to clutter up your thread, ill bow out and not clutter it up anymore.
im not worried about losing face, and feel confident in what i have offered. hmb is not new, it is not a giant mystery to understand how it works, and the other ingredients are not new. they work on their own towards a common goal, but no research has shown that creatine enhances BA, or ba enhances hmb etc. by no means do i expect you to agree, that would be foolish. i just wanted to chime in and did, and expressed my feelings over the product, now for the sake of the person whose thread this is, ill stop posting, but by no means does that change anything i said. |
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
I don't know about 'fooling' anyone. I am simply recording information here. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Built, I might just make a sugar-free version, but not just yet.
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Nearly all power lifters who compete at a high level usually use gear. So somehow they're magically attributing PR's in the gym due to an over the counter supplement that doesn't have a single conclusive study behind the main ingredient... Does this fool anyone over the age of 12?
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Lol, why say such things?
IF a powerlifter were on gear and the only change they made was to add a supplement and they then hit PRs to what would you attribute the progress? Anyway, I am sorry you feel the way you do. You can continue with your life and all of the folks using and loving RESULTS will continue with theirs. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
I understand. Let me put it this way, I will not comment about whether or not said individuals use anabolics. That would be for them. That said, even if they did, if they change nothing else about their drug and training regimen and add a supplement and see significant benefits from said supplement then it stands to reason said supplement was effective for them. That makes sense, no?
I know you do not know me from Sam, but I am not like so many other supplement company owners who will attibute an athlete's success to my products. Chuck was the best prior to ever using my products. That said, if he feels they help his training I think it would be stupid of me not to point that out. In addition, if he asks for the product for no reason other than he feels it works I think that is a great endorsement of the product and want to share it. |
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Originally Posted by dg806
Yeah fair enough. Again I was not knocking your product and I know it's tough in the supp industry. Just look at this thread.
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
I still don't see how he continues to ignore the fact that almost all of the people he's referencing are on massive steroid cycles-consisting of several drugs, and probably close to if not over a gram of testosterone-yet this HMB product is the cause of their strength gains lol. Give me a break.
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
I still don't see how he continues to ignore the fact that almost all of the people he's referencing are on massive steroid cycles-consisting of several drugs, and probably close to if not over a gram of testosterone-yet this HMB product is the cause of their strength gains lol. Give me a break.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Well, I can tell you I am NOT ignoring the fact this is your 5th post on this board which indicates this is the ONLY thread you have posted in. Hmmm...
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
I don't see how you continue to ignore the fact that this thread has almost nothing to do with the powerlifters Chris referred to.
This thread is about my experience with "results". If you read the beginning of the thread, I listed everything I'm taking. I'm not on gear for this log, yet I am setting pr's in just about every workout... Point of fact, no one said that HMB is the cause of anything. Actually read the thread before you make stupid statements. Jackass. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Have you ever set PR's before using this supplement, or were you lifting the exact same amount of weight during every session for your entire lifting career? |
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
I don't think Texan is wrong for finding it hard to believe an experienced lifter is setting PR's left and right with a basic creatine monohydrate supplement...
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
I didn't say he was wrong.... in fact, like I mentioned it in an earlier post, I too find it hard to attribute my performace to simply sugar, creatine, hmb, & b-ala.
However, I've been lifting for a little over 8 years, so I think that qualifies me as an experienced lifter, and I've set more than a couple pr's in the past couple weeks. I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying "results" is the greatest thing since sliced bread either. Like I said, I'm only recording information here. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
This thing is $50 for a 30 day supply?
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
This thing is $50 for a 30 day supply?
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Originally Posted by Stewart20
I did notice that as well, which makes it pretty much off limits for me, even if I wanted to try it, I just can't spend that kind of money on creatine, when I can get a 130 serving container for less than $20. Sucks because I have been known to try new things that people say work well, but not at that price unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
That's another reason I'm gonna cut the serving in half when I use it again.
That is pretty salty. |
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Originally Posted by Stewart20
I did notice that as well, which makes it pretty much off limits for me, even if I wanted to try it, I just can't spend that kind of money on creatine, when I can get a 130 serving container for less than $20. Sucks because I have been known to try new things that people say work well, but not at that price unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Let me put it this way, if you ONLY took RESULTS you would make much better progress than you currently do. You could NOT supplement with protein or anything else and just use RESULTS and see very nice gains.
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Most of what has been posted concerning hmb says that the dosage should be a bare minimum of 3 grams a day. I don't think 1.5g of hmb is going to be worth anything at all. Well, I don't think 10 grams of hmb would be worth anything-but if you believe that there's any evidence supporting hmb, you should be using no less than 3 grams a day. This is the reason it's not a very popular supplement. Inconclusive science + very expensive = usually not worth buying.
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
You've been spot on this entire thread.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Sox, you have a Westside training reference in your signature. Did you know that Louie Simmons personally endorses our products? Did you know that most of the guys at Westside use and REQUEST RESULTS? Oh, and you might want to check out the supplements section on their website if you don't believe me...
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Originally Posted by Travis Bell
no Chris isn't kidding. Lou loves this stuff as do all of our guys at Westside
I know he takes it every day.....because I train there haha |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Jay Cutler says he loves anabolic halo too, have you seen their ad?
"Within seconds you'll feel an intense glacial-like chill hit the back of your throat like an avalanche of polar ice. The subzero outbreak has begun! It feels like your entire physiological profile is freezing as the mega-dose of more than 75 cutting-edge and musclebuilding ingredients in the ANABOLIC HALO formula courses through your veins." "The first technology Team MuscleTech researchers and scientists used to create ANABOLIC HALO is Cryogenic Thermomolecular Technology. It utilizes subzero liquid nitrogen as cold as -320 degrees Fahrenheit to thermomolecularly enhance a precise portion of a key musclebuilding compound in ANABOLIC HALO. That's right, Team MuscleTech researchers actually exposed one of the most powerful anabolic compounds in the world to the same impossibly low temperatures on the surface of the planet Neptune. The cryogenically processed anabolic driver is unlike anything your muscles have ever experienced." PPl endorsing supps means absolutely nothing. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Let me put it this way, if you ONLY took RESULTS you would make much better progress than you currently do. You could NOT supplement with protein or anything else and just use RESULTS and see very nice gains.
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Jay Cutler says he loves anabolic halo too, have you seen their ad?
"Within seconds you'll feel an intense glacial-like chill hit the back of your throat like an avalanche of polar ice. The subzero outbreak has begun! It feels like your entire physiological profile is freezing as the mega-dose of more than 75 cutting-edge and musclebuilding ingredients in the ANABOLIC HALO formula courses through your veins." "The first technology Team MuscleTech researchers and scientists used to create ANABOLIC HALO is Cryogenic Thermomolecular Technology. It utilizes subzero liquid nitrogen as cold as -320 degrees Fahrenheit to thermomolecularly enhance a precise portion of a key musclebuilding compound in ANABOLIC HALO. That's right, Team MuscleTech researchers actually exposed one of the most powerful anabolic compounds in the world to the same impossibly low temperatures on the surface of the planet Neptune. The cryogenically processed anabolic driver is unlike anything your muscles have ever experienced." PPl endorsing supps means absolutely nothing. |
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
It's a creatine product. Creatine is a tried and tested proven to work supplement. I'm not doubting it's effectiveness. I'm doubting this "revolutionary" mix that Chris speaks of, because frankly, based off of the ingredients, this certainly isn't some miracle supplement that it's made out to be.
That, coupled with how incredibly overpriced RESULTS is and how other creatine products I've tried have worked better than regular Creatine Monohydrate, I won't be buying this product. |
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Originally Posted by Stewart20
I will not knock the product, this is Chris' company and he is just trying to market his product best he can and I am sure it really does work well for what it is (a creatine product), however, my only knock is the price is prohibitive for me and I am sure lots of other people. It's a catch-22 situation because the only way I would know if it worked better than my current creatine products would be to try it and spend the $50, then, if it worked better, I would be forced with the option of spending $50 a month on the stuff, or going back to my other products and potentially lose any gains I were to make on the product.
I don't even know at what price point it would even be feasible for me to try, so I guess it would be safe to say this would be a product for serious bodybuilders, serious powerlifters, or people with lots of disposable income. I consider it a luxury supplement, a BMW of creatine supps if you will, compared to the honda civic of a supplement I am using now. Both will get you where you want to go, only the BMW might get you there faster |
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Originally Posted by Travis Bell
you base the validity of endorsements on MuscleTech???
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Originally Posted by Travis Bell
Its not overpriced though, but expensive? yes.
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Originally Posted by Travis Bell
nobody is saying its a "miracle" supplement but it does work very well, which I realize you said you don't doubt. You're right its not an inexpensive supplement, the point though is its well worth the cost though. Its not overpriced though, but expensive? yes. Every now and then you'll find a supplement that is worth the expense you put into it and thats the way I feel about Results. You'll notice that it doesn't have tons of worthless filler that bump the price up. Every ingredient has a purpose that is supported by Chris (regardless of whether you agree with the research or not)
At the end of the day though, if you don't like it, don't buy it, like you said. Personally I think you're missing out though |
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Originally Posted by nni
you can stop taking protein and still see results with results!!!!
for those questioning the price, here is something to consider... Results $49.99 Dextrose - 2400g Creatine Mono - 150g Beta Alanine - 105g HMB - 90g to do it yourself... Dextrose (3 bags of NOW dex) 2724g @ $12.75 Creatine Mono (Ultimate mono) 300g @ $7.95 Beta Alanine (Sup Direct BA) 250g @ $14.99 HMB (Scifit) 90g @ $24.79 now, these amounts dont match up, so i will adjust where it is needed to see a true price comparison... Now dextrose 2400g = $11.23 Ultimate mono 150g = $3.98 Sup Dir BA 105g = $6.30 Scifit HMB 90g = $24.79 ---------------------------- $46.30 now this is without flavoring. obviously if you went bulk with everything you can save more, but this is a fair price, so i wont argue with that. |
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Originally Posted by Travis Bell
nobody is saying its a "miracle" supplement but it does work very well, which I realize you said you don't doubt. You're right its not an inexpensive supplement, the point though is its well worth the cost though. Its not overpriced though, but expensive? yes. Every now and then you'll find a supplement that is worth the expense you put into it and thats the way I feel about Results. You'll notice that it doesn't have tons of worthless filler that bump the price up. Every ingredient has a purpose that is supported by Chris (regardless of whether you agree with the research or not)
At the end of the day though, if you don't like it, don't buy it, like you said. Personally I think you're missing out though |
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Originally Posted by thewicked
Results has been the only creatine product i've ever used...either by itself or as a creatine mix that has actually delivered. That alone is worth the price invested in it. Not to mention everyone that's raving about it not only are the pro's that are using it.. but us everyday guys as well looking for a little something extra to help us push ourselve to the limit! Is it worth the money spent? ABSOLUTELY!
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Originally Posted by nni
you can stop taking protein and still see results with results!!!!
for those questioning the price, here is something to consider... Results $49.99 Dextrose - 2400g Creatine Mono - 150g Beta Alanine - 105g HMB - 90g to do it yourself... Dextrose (3 bags of NOW dex) 2724g @ $12.75 Creatine Mono (Ultimate mono) 300g @ $7.95 Beta Alanine (Sup Direct BA) 250g @ $14.99 HMB (Scifit) 90g @ $24.79 now, these amounts dont match up, so i will adjust where it is needed to see a true price comparison... Now dextrose 2400g = $11.23 Ultimate mono 150g = $3.98 Sup Dir BA 105g = $6.30 Scifit HMB 90g = $24.79 ---------------------------- $46.30 now this is without flavoring. obviously if you went bulk with everything you can save more, but this is a fair price, so i wont argue with that. |
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Originally Posted by thewicked
Results has been the only creatine product i've ever used...either by itself or as a creatine mix that has actually delivered. That alone is worth the price invested in it. Not to mention everyone that's raving about it not only are the pro's that are using it.. but us everyday guys as well looking for a little something extra to help us push ourselve to the limit! Is it worth the money spent? ABSOLUTELY!
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Why wouldn't you go bulk with everything? That's how you're going to save money compared to the pre-mixed supplement. When you go bulk, not only are the individual ingredients cheaper, but you save a DRASTIC amount of money in shipping costs over the course of a year. I don't think that's the main debate here. The fact remains that there isn't any conclusive science behind HMB, hence why it's been around for a while and not very popular. If we were talking about creatine, who cares-even if the studies were inconclusive, it's dirt cheap. Why anyone would choose to throw such a ridiculous amount of money behind a supplement that doesn't have jack supporting it from science is insane.
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
I see what you're trying to say nni, but the whole point of buying it all separate is so you can buy it in bulk.
I'm at work so I can't bring out the calculator just yet, but I'll do that tonight and I can't imagine it being much over $10 to $20 dollars for a 30-day serving. Again, I'm not doubting the effectiveness of RESULTS (we get that it works), it's simply a terribly overpriced product in the same boat (if not worse) than any MuscleTech or BSN product. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
If you really want to try this supplement just price the 4 individual ingredients, I will guarantee its much cheaper than 50.
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Originally Posted by nni
you can stop taking protein and still see results with results!!!!
for those questioning the price, here is something to consider... Results $49.99 Dextrose - 2400g Creatine Mono - 150g Beta Alanine - 105g HMB - 90g to do it yourself... Dextrose (3 bags of NOW dex) 2724g @ $12.75 Creatine Mono (Ultimate mono) 300g @ $7.95 Beta Alanine (Sup Direct BA) 250g @ $14.99 HMB (Scifit) 90g @ $24.79 now, these amounts dont match up, so i will adjust where it is needed to see a true price comparison... Now dextrose 2400g = $11.23 Ultimate mono 150g = $3.98 Sup Dir BA 105g = $6.30 Scifit HMB 90g = $24.79 ---------------------------- $46.30 now this is without flavoring. obviously if you went bulk with everything you can save more, but this is a fair price, so i wont argue with that. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Wrong! Make sure you seek Creapure(TM) as the monohydrate source.
Lol, you really should cease the hate-fest. It only reflects poorly on you. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
It's almost as if you play yourself out to be a victim and you want pity from everyone. What we've all stated are FACTS. The individual ingredients in your product can be purchased in bulk separately for cheaper than the cost of your product. Hell, even when not purchased in bulk, it was still slightly cheaper than your product. The science behind HMB is inconclusive, at best, that's A FACT. Stating facts is not a "hate fest".
Creapure is no different than plain creatine monohydrate. It's a marketing gimmic. You give it a fancy name and convince idiots that it's somehow better than plain creatine. Saying otherwise is complete bullshit, and you know it. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
The entire idea behind the original naming of the brand, whoever named it, was a marketing campaign. There's no difference between creapure and regular creatine. Even if there was, it would be so unbelievably minimal that it wouldn't matter. What exactly is a "creatine impurity"?
Nobody is trying to discredit anyone. I'm simply pointing out relevant factors surrounding this product. It's overpriced for what it does, drastically overpriced-just like every other hyped up supp out there. Creatine is worth taking simply because it's so cheap. If creatine were 50 dollars for a months supply, it wouldn't make sense to use it anymore. Mulitvitamins are great, they're also very cheap. If they were 5 dollars a piece, it wouldn't make sense to use them anymore. Supplements that aren't food or steroids provide A MINIMAL benefit to the user. When that minimal benefit is costing someone 50 dollars a month, it's retarded. |
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Originally Posted by katt
wow - this journal has taken a turn toward debate..
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
From talking to Texan, all he's after is a non-bias opinion from someone who isn't a representative of their company.Basically, you have all these annoying reps trying to hype up this mediocre product and a few down to earth people who realize that $50 dollars for Results is simply robbery.
I hope I have time today to do some calculations; there isn't a doubt in my mind, you could get a four month to half a year supply of the ingredients in this product for the same price it's costing people who purchase a months supply of Results and IMO thats not fair in any way, shape or form. |
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Originally Posted by katt
wow - this journal has taken a turn toward debate..
Hey L - how's the workouts goin'?? I wonder how Results would work for me as a gal? |
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
Oh, and Katt.. Results would definitely work well for you. Have you ever used a creatine product in the past?
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Originally Posted by katt
I've used Gaspari Size-on and just normal bulk Creatine mixed in crystal light
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Originally Posted by katt
I've used Gaspari Size-on and just normal bulk Creatine mixed in crystal light
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Only one problem with what you are saying about my minion TX, THIS THREAD WAS STARTED AND MAINTAINED BY A MEMBER OF THIS BOARD WHO HAS NO AFFILIATION WITH MY COMPANY. Lol, if that was all he was looking for he would not be posting here...
Oh, and one other thing relative to your proposed cost analysis, there can be a HUGE variance in the quality of ingredients. Manufacturing processes can vary widely, especially in countries like China where less regulation is in place. So, finding the cheapest version is not always the best. Let the buyer beware... In the end, prior to pricing the product we did check into what reasonably priced good quality individual ingredients would cost (at places like Bb.com) and kept our product in line with them thus affording the consumer a product which is pre-made and flavored with its concurrent convenience all at a price which is right in-line with what they would pay to make their own version. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
I just don't believe hitting a few PRs is worth 50 bucks a month. I think its a combination of a placebo effect and consuming 80g of dextrose. If HMB is so remarkable I'm curious as to why this company doesnt offer an HMB only product.
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
You were given a product for free. Your opinion is worthless.
And yes, I won't be buying this product nor should anybody in their right mind. |
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
What?
um, in this thread, especially since you've never used said product YOUR opinion is worthless poopypants. |
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
Are you a fluffy bunny rabbit?
Nobody is doubting the effectiveness of creatine! How many fucking times does this have to be stated? Your opinion is worthless because you didn't saw off your arm and leg to get the product, like others who have to purchase it. |
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Originally Posted by Irons77
Isn't this what a test log is for? Questioning a product and it's price Why edit anything?
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Originally Posted by nni
the personal insults need to be removed. see it is nice now.
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Nice now we are family again
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Originally Posted by nni
the personal insults need to be removed. see it is nice now.
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Originally Posted by Stewart20
My question to L is this...you were given the product to try for a month and you feel you are getting positive results (no pun intended) from it. Now, your free month is over, will you be spending the $50 to continue using the product? Were your results (again, no pun intended) worth $50 a month?
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
You were given a product for free. Your opinion is worthless.
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Originally Posted by Irons77
Isn't this what a test log is for? Questioning a product and it's price Why edit anything?
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
Great question.
P.S: Sorry I snapped, I thought I had made myself clear that I wasn't dissing the product itself, just the price. |
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Originally Posted by dg806
I disagree.........Chris asked for honest feedback and opinions. And this is what L is giving. If you disagree, fine. No one is forcing you to buy the product or even try it. One thing I have tried to install for years is that EVERYONE is different and will react differntly to products. What works for me might not do jack for you and vice versa. As far as money goes, yeah $50 bucks is steep for me too, as I have 2 kids, house payment, truck payment...yada yada. But it's like anything else. It depends on how dedicated you are and how bad you want it. If gaining a few lbs of muscle is worth $50 a month to someone, I see no problem. Others may not opt to pay that and that is fine too.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Right, and the real b.s. of the argument is that ANYONE who uses supplements spends $50 per month or very close to it. The product is VERY effective if it were all one used for supplementation. You really don't need anything else (for size and strength), other things are just a luxury.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
A test log is so that the tester can state their opinion of a product?
I am sure you are a reasonable and intelligent person, as such, you should be able to see through the blatantly baseless attacks on the product. You have people dismissing something they have never used. I will give you a hint, both of the individuals spewing shit in this log are just goofs from another site who don't like me. It has ZERO to do with the product. |
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Originally Posted by nni
are you guys going to force me to actually moderate this thread? you both suck, and should edit your posts before i have to.
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Originally Posted by Stewart20
My question to L is this...you were given the product to try for a month and you feel you are getting positive results (no pun intended) from it. Now, your free month is over, will you be spending the $50 to continue using the product? Were your results (again, no pun intended) worth $50 a month?
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
Great question.
If the product was the sole reason for all these personal records, surely you'd incorporate it into your workout regimen for a long time to come. Are you going to be spending $50 dollars per month for several years to continue this products usage? P.S: Sorry I snapped, I thought I had made myself clear that I wasn't dissing the product itself, just the price. |
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Originally Posted by nni
im all for defending the product, but this is twice you made statements that are outrageous concerning results. lets not blow things up here.
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
Sorry about that, but very good euphemisms. Um, what the hell is a sallytwizz?
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Originally Posted by nni
no idea, first jibberish thing i could make up.
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Originally Posted by nni
im all for defending the product, but this is twice you made statements that are outrageous concerning results. lets not blow things up here.
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Originally Posted by Irons77
I hear ya Chris! This log is a good one, IMO. I don't have a problem with spenting $50 on a product. If it works well I continue with it, if not then I won't buy it again plain and simple. I'm thinking about buying some and logging the results here after my cut. It will not be a free opinion, but a paid opinion.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
First, Creapure(TM) IS better because it is not some cheap ass Chinese creatine monohydrate full of impurities.
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
Still waiting for that explanation of what a "creatine impurity" is...
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Read this article: What's Really in Your Supplements? - An Update on Creatine by Will Brink
I am sure you will find some problem with it, but perhaps you can take it up with Will who is a member here. |
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Originally Posted by TexanTA1996
The article is a great explanation, but they don't list brands they're using-it just says "Chinese Manufacturer". A listing of the brands would really, really help.
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Originally Posted by aussie
I just go with brands that use Creapure monohydrate. Really hard to screw that up.
EDIT: But to clarify, don't see much point in taking a creatine supp that mixes in sugar. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
The dex can make a big difference. I can site you a personal note to that end. Without dex I can only take about 7g of creatine without having intestinal discomfort. With it, I can take up to 20g and have no problems.
In addition, and it seems to get lost on the naysayers, RESULTS has creatine as only 1 ingredient of 3 main ingredients (creatine, beta alanine, and HMB). |
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Originally Posted by aussie
I don't doubt the role that dex plays but that's just in PWO nutrition. It's pure high-GI carbs with no nutritional value so the only time you'd want this stuff in your body is for a workout. But Results recommends daily servings and that's a problem b/c there's no reason to have dex on days I'm not lifting.
Besides, I buy my dex at a local brew supply store and 5-lbs costs me $8. I get 1,000g of Creapure creatine mono for $22. So for $30 I got a 7 month supply that I can mix or keep separate at my discretion. Can't really see myself spending $50 for a 1-month of a creatine mix that forces me to use a carb source. As for the HMB and BA, neither have been proven to do shit for adding strength or LBM. At best BA has shown marginal results with endurance but that's on a good day with a dose that's much larger than what's in Results. And even if you did want to play with it you'd do better buying it in bulk since it's also cheap. Any way you stack it the numbers don't add up to ponying up $50 for a 30-day creatine source. |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
It is sad that you will not based upon your ignorance and bias.
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
You shouldn't be allowed to post the word bias.
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Perhaps the difference is that I do not try to hide the fact. I think everyone here is pretty clear I co-own AtLarge. You, and some others have a clear bias based upon your own ignornace and or feelings for me, but you try to pass it off as being "helpful" to others by "protecting" them.
I wonder, what have you achieved with all of your training and knowledge? Is it possible you might not know everything and that your opinions may be flawed? Just perhaps... |
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Originally Posted by chris mason
Lol, ok Aussie, you are the expert.
Your OPINION is so far from reality it truly surprises me. Tell you what, I have a REAL research scientist who actually conducted some of the studies you are referencing who states that my products are well formulated and effective. I think I will take his word over yours... You can read about it here: At Large Nutrition - Dr. Jeff Volek recommends AtLarge! Something else to consider, I read in another thread about the supplements you already take. You spend more than $50 per month on them. You could drop ALL of them and just use RESULTS and be a heck of a lot better off than you are. It is sad that you will not based upon your ignorance and bias. |
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Originally Posted by Built
Just to clarify here, Dr. Volek - whose research on the benefits of reduced-carbohydrate diets are well known - specifically names Nitor and Thermocin as the At Large products he supports in that link. Both of these products enhance the insulin-resistance and subsequent muscle-sparing that low-carb weight-loss dieting promotes, so his endorsement of them should be of no surprise to anyone who is well-read on the subject.
Has Dr. Volek expressed his expert opinion on your HMB formulation, Chris? |
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Originally Posted by Built
Just to clarify here, Dr. Volek - whose research on the benefits of reduced-carbohydrate diets are well known - specifically names Nitor and Thermocin as the At Large products he supports in that link. Both of these products enhance the insulin-resistance and subsequent muscle-sparing that low-carb weight-loss dieting promotes, so his endorsement of them should be of no surprise to anyone who is well-read on the subject.
Has Dr. Volek expressed his expert opinion on your HMB formulation, Chris? |
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Originally Posted by soxmuscle
Again, you couldn't be farther from the truth.
You honestly might be one of the dumbest people on this message board and that's saying something considering who frequents this board daily. I don't know shit about training in comparison to many other people on this board and I don't claim to, that has nothing to do with me being a smart shopper. Once again, the fact remains your product is overpriced (more overpriced than any BSN or MuscleTech product) and throwing insults at the naysayers saying we're bias, unintelligent, "haven't done anything with training," and last but not least: ignorant, shows just how ignorant and flat out retarded you are. You're lucky you're paying Prince... |
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Originally Posted by aussie
I don't know you Chris but I don't need to. I look at the merits of the product and not the guy standing behind the counter trying to sell it to me because I can guarantee you we're already starting off with two different agendas.
So you got a research scientist. What does that do for me? Do you know how many countless supp sites are out there being "backed" by doctors and scientists. We're talking about an industry that's not even regulated so the last thing I'm going to rely on are the claims from a supplement manufacturer and their staff to tell me what I need in my stack. Oh, and since you brought that up, here's what I take: Whey isolate Creapure creatine mono EFAs: EPA/DHA and some Udo's Choice Oil Blend Green Tea Extract Malto/Dex (PWO only) Caffeine for a little zing But I digress, let's get back to HMB. I've seen enough studies on this to know that with exception to killing a few lab rats with dosage issues the results in the real world are nothing to write home about let alone justify the value that you're placing on it in your creatine mix. No need to waste page real estate here on regurgitating the studies but you can find a nice review here: HMB Review: Does HMB Work? Does It Build Muscle?. I saw in your earlier post that Will Brink is here. If that's the case then I'll put stock in his credentials, reputation, and research than what you can come up with on any day of the week. Unlike you, Brink won't have an agenda to push a product and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that what he has to say on HMB and BA won't help your cause or your bottom line (and arguably one in the same). And if it matters, I did check out your site and the other products. I see the same pattern that others have commented on. It's way overpriced compared to what you can find elsewhere. I also don't see the need to combine compounds/ingredients that only show marginal results at best or are misleading. I mean, c'mon, Nitor? You're using kola nut and guarana extracts as a caffeine source but the research you cite is a study on the effects of caffeine in general. I'm all for caffeine if it helps get you through a workout or maintain some focus but why would I want to pay all that money you're charging for friggin kola nut and guarana extracts when I can pick up a year's worth of caffeine pills for a few bucks? And glucomannan? We're talking fiber right? I'll think of that when I head to the grocery store today and see the Metamucil on the shelf but I get plenty from the veggies I eat. |