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Originally Posted by MCPaulyB I'm looking to develop my shouders and upper back more. I want more rounded shoulders. Here's my routine: M-abs, chest, shrugs T-legs W-abs, shoulders Th-abs, arms F or S or Sun-back What shall I do? Thanks!

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  Don't train more than 2 consecutive days without taking a day off. Try to keep the lifting portion of your workout to an hour or less. Take a week off every 3 months or so, or implement planned deloading phases. A general rule of thumb is to perform 2-4 sets of each exercise, although I suggest consulting my guide to designing routines (Guide To Designing A Routine) for more information on this topic. Do at least one freeweight movement for push movements, pull movements, and leg exercises. Do more if at all possible. In general, you should workout larger muscles first. As well, perform heavier compound movements first. Rep range should primarily hang in the 6-12 range. However, going higher or lower on occasion is certainly a good idea. If you also value strength, then journey into the 3-6 range more frequently. Conversely, if you also value endurance, then go in the 15+ range more frequently. Try to balance your pressing and pulling movements. Also, try to balance your quad-dominant and hamstring-dominant lower body exercises. 2 day split examples: Upper - Lower (Full Body Push - Pull) Quads, Chest, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps, Abs - Hamstrings, Back, Posterior Delts, Biceps, Abs 3 day split examples: Week A: Upper - Lower - Upper / Week B: Lower - Upper - Lower (Push - Pull - Legs) Chest, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps - Back, Posterior Delts, Biceps - Legs, Calves, Abs (Upper Horizontal - Upper Vertical - Legs) Chest, Back Thickness, Biceps - Back Width, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps - Legs, Calves, Abs 4 day split examples: Lower - Upper - Lower - Upper Chest - Back - Legs - Delts, Arms, Abs Week A: Push - Pull - Legs - Push / Week B: Pull - Legs - Push - Pull / Week C: Legs - Push - Pull - Legs As you can see, there is a wide variety of viable splits, and it should be no problem to find one that fits your schedule. As long as you follow the general guidelines I laid out, or something close to them that affords you full recovery, then you can cram muscle groups together virtually however you please. The split doesn't even have to be based around a calendar week if you don't want to do it that way.

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Originally Posted by snoops Im not asking for help with my routines, Ive been lifting for over 6 years. Instead of listing every single lift, how many reps, etc, I summarized with body part to emphasize I would not be hitting the same part two days in a row. My question really doesnt have much to do with what lifts Im actually doing, but more with frequency of lifting while on cycle. So yes, I know how to lift but am new to anabolics. And what stickie would you refer me to that answers this directly?

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Originally Posted by snoops I dont want to hijack this thread but I just saw the part about not working out more than 2 days in a row without taking a day off. Ive been using a 4 day a week routine basicly since high school and def understand that, but I am considering changing my routine for an upcoming cycle. I was wondering if I could go day 1: chest, triceps, shoulders day 2: back, biceps, abs day 3: legs day 4: off than start over again and throw in a few times where I take two days off in between. Any input since my recovery time should be better?

• face pulls, **good for rear delt and mid trap, posture
• upright rows, **avoid - there are far better movements that give much better shoulder development with less risk of rotator cuff damage
• lat pulldowns to the front, **good, even better one arm at a time
• and to the back. **avoid for the same reasons as upright rows
• rear delt row, **good for the same reasons as face pulls
• shrugs, **mostly overrated if you do heavy deads and cleans, but good
• shrug rolls, **avoid
• military press, **good, try to do 'em standing to involve more core and to avoid lower back strain
• bench press variations, **especially at an incline
• side lateral raises. **good for side delts at the end, but not much of a mass builder
• upright row to a roll. **avoid
• rear delt fly's. **good as a shoulder warmup/prehab/rehab
• last but not least lat pull ups. **overhand or underhand, chins are the bomb.

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Originally Posted by Built face pulls, **good for rear delt and mid trap, posture upright rows, **avoid - there are far better movements that give much better shoulder development with less risk of rotator cuff damage lat pulldowns to the front, **good, even better one arm at a time and to the back. **avoid for the same reasons as upright rows rear delt row, **good for the same reasons as face pulls shrugs, **mostly overrated if you do heavy deads and cleans, but good shrug rolls, **avoid military press, **good, try to do 'em standing to involve more core and to avoid lower back strain bench press variations, **especially at an incline side lateral raises. **good for side delts at the end, but not much of a mass builder upright row to a roll. **avoid rear delt fly's. **good as a shoulder warmup/prehab/rehab last but not least lat pull ups. **overhand or underhand, chins are the bomb. Comments: hang cleans, clean and press, olympic bar corner press (like a t-bar, but you face the corner and do a push press one arm at a time holding the end of the bar as a hand grip), jerks/push press, Arnold press and side laterals are all really great shoulder movements that will do nothing but condition and improve the your entire trap/shoulder area. Oly bar corner presses: From 7 Exercises From Thib's Toolbox My favourite "shoulder" routines are, in no particular order, as follow: 5x5 hang cleans 3x8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals 5x5 Oly bar corner presses 3x8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals If I've got extra piss and vinegar that day... 5x5 hang cleans 3x5 split jerks or push presses 3x8 Oly bar corner presses 3x6-8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals

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Originally Posted by Built My training partner prefers snatches. They're both good. Follow them with split jerks or push presses, then as above.

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Originally Posted by Built My training partner prefers snatches. They're both good. Follow them with split jerks or push presses, then as above. Quote: Originally Posted by biggfly Ya me too!!! OOPs, wrong forum!!!

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Originally Posted by Built I love men. <giggles>

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Originally Posted by P-funk just make sure that you have someone teach you proper technique for these lifts.

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