Body Fat [Forum Archive]

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Body Fat

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Posted by: Jonny

I am 16 years old, 6ft 1" and about 12 stone. I have a little bit of body fat, not a huge amount but enough to stop muscles such as the abdominal's and pectorals's looking so impressive.

What is the best/quickest/safest way to lose body fat. A friend of mine used to take something which reduced body fat by speeding up the heart rate, but unfortunately I was born with a slight heart murmur, and although I think it has just about cleared up now, it's not something I would like to risk.

I am aware that the amount of body fat a person has is largely dependent on diet and excercise, but is there anything else I can do to help?

Thanks,
Jonny

Posted by: PreacherMan

Proteins to get that appetite down, and increased cardio (5 times/week).

Also, very important: consult your physician before trying anything on your own.

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Do you work out ?

Posted by: Prince

It's all about your diet!

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

Posted by: Scotty the Body

Yes, its diet, you can increase your meals to 6 times a day (smaller meals of course) this will help to increase your metabolism and loose fat quicker.

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Just another day in the gutter

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

I hate to say it, but a ketogenic diet would be the fastest way to lose fat. As far as best and safest that's up for debate, but IMHO for the time that is needed to be on the diet it's perfectly safe, and whether or not it's the best depends on a lot of things.

Anyhow, I can give you a great plan for losing fat if you're willing to follow it....

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: Foodio

Friends,
Eat less food. It’s simple.
If you want some definition on top of that then eat less food, work out and do some cardio (jogging).

Friends

Posted by: Foodio

Ohh, and make sure that the less food is of a healthier variety.

I mean, don't right-off-the-bat go cold turkey and chop your food intake in half. Gradually bring it down...

Friends Forever

Posted by: Scotty the Body

Quote:

Originally posted by Foodio:
Friends,
Eat less food. It’s simple.
If you want some definition on top of that then eat less food, work out and do some cardio (jogging).

Friends

I wouldn't necessarily eat less food, just less cals but I would increase the frequency of eating, say 6 meals a day.

Back when I didn't know shit about diet (I'm still learning all the time know) I did just that, eat less food, just salids and fruit.
Sure I lost alot of weight, like 40lb but about half of that was muscle cause I wasn't eating enough protein or enough calories.
So don't just "eat less", eat right.

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Just another day in the gutter

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

Eating frequently isn't necessary....

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

Foodio - define what makes a food "healthy".

And I agree, dropping calories too quickly is the worst thing you can do.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: MtnBikerChick

Foodio, my friend. I think you are in for a big debate.

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

No, I was just trying to make him realize that there is no such thing as "healthy" foods.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: w8lifter

TSB...if you're going to post something like this, why don't you post the whole thing. Give all the reasons why eating frequently isn't necessary (like you did elsewhere), and explain why you still choose to eat more frequently. These one-liners only serve to confuse newbies and stir up sh!t.

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
Eating frequently isn't necessary....

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Behind every great man is his BUTT

My FitPit

Posted by: junebug

TSB you said you had a plan to loose some fat with regards to one's diet. If you don't mind sending me that, it would be great. I am having a hard time shedding right now. I lost about 12 pounds over the last 10 weeks but the last week or so I have been in a rut, with no weight loss. Later...

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Limits are only mental.

Posted by: Foodio

Listen, what goes on here is people simply eat too much food.
Your body only needs a certain amount.

After that “certain amount” food basically turns in to a narcotic, like cocaine, ludes or hash – you just want more and more.

People love food, and a lot of people have mental issues, like myself, so they eat to forget, because eating food is like a temporary high.

Get a hobby, eat less food, your body doesn’t need all this extra food floating around in the neurons and cells and enzymes.

Friends forever

Posted by: Scotty the Body

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
Eating frequently isn't necessary....

I never said it was necessary, I said it would help.
A cobination of what I said along with other things would all help loose weight.

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Just another day in the gutter

Posted by: Prince

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing:
Eating frequently isn't necessary....

I disagree.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

Posted by: Maki Riddington

Prince as you frequently dissagree with TSB can you explain why you dissagree?

Thanks.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

[Edited 1 time by Maki Riddington on 08-17-2001 at 08:30 PM]

Posted by: Foodio

Just eat less food. Everyone is always trying to find ways to stuff their mouths.

Posted by: Prince

Sure, by eating small, frequent meals you keep your metaboism high and it prevents spikes in blood sugar levels, it prevents you from over eating, when you skip meals your body will hold onto fat calories (survival mode) and burn muscle because that is the most readily available energy source. This will in turn lower your metabolism, making it that much harder to lose weight.

It's pretty simple, do you see it differently Maki?

Has TSB ever dieted for a contest, or even weight loss? I doubt it! From what I remember he has to eat 5,000 calories per day just to gain weight.

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

Posted by: Maki Riddington

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince:
It's pretty simple, do you see it differently Maki?

*** I agree with the notion you disagree.
Just wanted to see why.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

OK this is what I posted "elsewhere":

Benefits of frequent feedings...
OK, it is often said that more meals are superior to less when it comes to dieting.

Some of the arguements are that frequent feedings keep the metabolism high throughout the day. But, let's look at this closer. Each macronutrient consumed requires some number of calories to digest, and this number doesn't change. So, say you eat 3000 cals in 6 meals, each meal = 500 cals. So, the whatever amount of cals needed to digest that meal would be burned. What if you ate 3000 cals in 2 meals? That's 1500 cals per meal, so the body would have to burn however many cals it takes to digest that meal. The metabolic rate is not changed.

Another arguement is that frequent feedings are required to keep amino acids available at all times. But, if you eat, for example, 30g of protein it will take about 2-3 hours to digest (depending on the protein source). But, if you were to eat 100g, it would take much longer to digest, for the sake of arguement let's say 6-8 hours (although it's prolly more). So, regardless amino acids are in the blood stream the same amount of time.

Another arguement is that the body will go into "starvation mode" if you don't frequently eat. But, if you are eating enough calories to maintain your weight then why would the body think it's starving? Remember, you still have the same amount of nutrients in the body between feedings, metabolic reaction is equal, etc...so that arguement is flawed.

OK so you like eating often, why not? Well, eating carbs often keeps insulin high. You may be thinking, "but insulin release will be the same". Perhaps, but insulin is release as a "spike", meaning it rises and falls quite rapidly. So, while a larger meal would have a higher spike it would return to normal before the next feeding. With frequent meals the spike may be lower, but since you are eating more often you keep the spike high, not letting it return to normal. High insulin = less ability to burn fat and higher potential for fat storage.

You may also be thinking that because the body can only absorb so much food at one time you will store fat with big meals. True, but if you don't eat often this newly stored fat will just be metabolized and used as energy later on. No harm done.

Less meals also means more hGH, which is a fat burning hormone...better yet.

And the reason I choose to eat more frequently is appetite and craving control, along with less cortisol release and more ease of eating more food. Basically, because it's easier to stick to. If you were to find it easier to stick to 2 meals per day, than 2 meals per day are superior.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

BTW Prince, yes I've dieted for fat loss a couple times. The first time I went from 15% to 10% in 6 weeks, and the second time (still going at it now) I've gone from 16% to currently 7% and planning on hitting 6% by the end of next week...it's been 9 weeks.

The plan I was going to recommend to him is basically the plan I followed this time, to go from 16% to 7% without any muscle loss as far as I can tell, and my piece of shit calipers concur.

For the first 6 weeks of dieting you use a 50/35/15 ratio of protein/carbs/fat, and you progressively lower calories by 200/week for 6 weeks.

After this, you take a week of "off" dieting to give yourself a break, don't gorge but don't supress either, this week is optional but it does help a lot.

Then, you go into a ketogenic diet for 4 weeks (maybe less or more, depending on how well it works), personally I started with a CKD, and am now going into a TKD for a few reasons.

With the CKD you eat protein and fat during the week with a 25-30% : 70-75% ratio, with 3 hours between meals and supplment with calcium, magnesium, multivitamin/mineral, and optionally fiber, creatine and glutamine.

On the weekends you carb load, the purpose of this is to saturate glycogen sotres with enough glucose to fuel your monday and teusday workouts, but prevent fat re-gain. So, lots 'o carbs (about 8-10g per kb of bodyweight), 1g of protein per pound, and little fat. Personally, I use a 36 hour carb load.

Before the carb load you perform a "depletion workout", this is high rep low rest period circuit training type workout, and you stop short of failure, very short, like 3-5 reps. Have about 25g of carbs before this workout, the purpose is to deplete muscle glyocgen as fully as possible, so they will take up as much glucose as possible during the carb load.

On a TKD you don't change your training at all, just follow the keto ratio's of 25-30% protein, 70-75% fat, and eat 25-50g of glucose based carbs (not fructose/fruit of dairy) before or after your workouts...whichever you prefer. I'm doing before.

After this you take a week of "off dieting" again, this should get glucose back in ya without much fat storage, as to prepare you for gaining again (if that's what you wanna do). Then, to come out of the diet, it is recommended that you use an isocaloric diet (33/33/33) and slowely go into this by slowly adding carbs and dropping fat.

A good place to reas about a CKD is here:
http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/

I could never find a similar reference for a TKD.

Additional optional supplements would be an ECA stack (I like dymetadrine xtreme), and green tea...both taken 2-3 times a day, I take both 3x a day and green tea whenever else I want some. Also some 5-HTP may be of use, as it's a carb suppresant, I use it 2x a day...50mg each dose.

That it, extremely effective, and keto is surprisingly easy to stick to and tastes damn great...for me anyhow.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by TheSupremeBeing on 08-17-2001 at 10:04 PM]

Posted by: Maki Riddington

A better way of wording it instaed of using "healthy foods" would be to use the term "functional foods".

As for less frequent eatings, I have yet to see someone lose weight effectively and keep it off with 1-2 meals a day.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

Posted by: cytrix

to The Supreme Being: i just read your reply regarding the TKD. i have been doing a high protein, low-fat, low-carb diet for two weeks, and i am tired of this low cal diet. i wanna switch to a TKD, and my question is, how many calories total do you consume then? some say regular maintenance (BW in lbsx15), some say 500 or 1000 below. which is quicker, does it really make a difference, because it would be easier to be able to eat more calories (of course only as protein and fat).

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

Well I pretty much knew my metabolic rate before starting the diet, so I went from there...but if I turned it into a formula it would be about bodyweight in pounds X 14.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: w8lifter

I always wanted to do a ckd but I'm too chicken shit I think. I just did a carb deplete and it was hard. Of course, I had to stay away from sodium at the time too. I'm guessing if that's not a problem there would be more food choices. Cheese and different meats and stuff.

The green tea...is that just regular old green tea from the grocery store? How do you drink it?

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Behind every great man is his BUTT

My FitPit

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

I found the carb depletion and stuff to be very easy...the carb suppresant will help, so will diet coke and sugar free snacks.

I documented the whole thing over at wannabebig if you wanna see what I did.

Yeah, I just buy the green tea, nuke it, and drink it w/o anything in it, pretty good actually.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: cytrix

hi The Supreme Being (and everybody else too

), i'll try that bw in lbsx14. i will have 50g dextrose 30 min. before my training, do you suggest to add any protein powder and creatine to that? what about glutamine? how do you do it? when i'm not dieting i ususally have glutamine first, then 10min later dextrose with whey protein and creatine, everything right after my training. or should you just stick with the dextrose alone? thanx for your help!!

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

Well dextrose is high GI, so the glucose resond will be rapid. You would probably want a slow absorbing carb like oatmeal so you have steady energy levels throughout your workout. If you eat the carbs post workout then the dextrose will be great, remember it's personal preference whether you want them pre or post workout.

I have glutamine before and after my workout.

Creatine after.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: Mule

I thought you said glutimine is shit!!

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Im an Iron Addict!

Posted by: cytrix

hi everyone, The Supreme Being, i have some more questions:
1. wouldn't it be better to take carbs before your workout while on a TKD? i thought it's purpose is to get you through the workout.
2. also, if you took it before, it would be used while training, and ketosis would be reestablished immidiately, or not?
3. i read somewhere regarding TKD that you are supposed to use dextrose (they mentioned some kind of candy that contains it)
4. can you suggest a particular site on the web on this? thankx again!!

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

1. I think so.

2. Pretty soon, which is one of the huge benefits of a TKD over a CKD - more time in ketosis.

3. You could, you don't have to though.

4. I could never find anything on TKD's worth referencing, but if you have some more Q's I should have the answers

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: cytrix

thanks, what about adding whey protein to the carbs before training? and do you think it would possibly be better to take the creatine together with the dextrose, instead of after by itself?
by the way, i was just looking for a good site on TKD and couldn't find nothing really good either.

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

No to the protein before training, save that for after. Yes you can take the creatine beforehand.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: cytrix

i just found a manuals on different ketogenic diets, incl. TKD, at www.elitefitness.com/articles/mrx.html
basically, it's what you've been saying TSB

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

I've seen some of his articles, never saw that one though...I personally don't like his writing at all.

That one seemed ok though.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: cytrix

i've never read anything of his before, i just liked that he gave info on creatine and glutamine and protein in conjunction with TKD which is something i couldn't find before and why i asked you for advise. what don't you like about his writing in general TSB?

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

Well I don't like his writing style at all, wtf is with his poems and shit on an article about injecting insulin? LOL.

I also don't like how he tries to invent these amazing new diets, which are really nothing special and have been done before.

He is pretty knowledgable, I just don't like how he puts in into writing...

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: bharminder

Where can you buy dextrose from? Is it cheap? Does it make a big difference if i use it?

Posted by: cytrix

hey TSB, i agree with you on mr.x, after looking into it some more.
bharminder, regarding the dextrose, i bought mine from dave's powerstore, it's about $1.20 for 2 lbs
and if you buy 11 you get the 12 one free, and shipping is only 4.95 flat.

Posted by: cytrix

oh.yeah, here's where to go if interested: thepowerstore.com

[Edited 1 time by w8lifter on 08-21-2001 at 07:04 AM]

Posted by: cytrix

The Supreme Being, since you know everything about TKD, how do you suggest to put together the workouts? i thought to just do two total body workouts, since it is only about keeping the muscle anyway, right? how many sets per muscle group do you think is best?

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

I'm just doing a pull/push/legs thing.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: bharminder

Cack, what foods are high in dextrose? I looked at the mendosa list and the highest ones were the complex carbs like a bagel, spaghetti..stuff like that...so can u just give a few examples that i can eat for carbs after a workout?

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

Stop worrying about it so much, just eat some carbs as long as it's not fruit/fructose or dairy/lactose/galactose.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

Posted by: The Rose

What's wrong with fructose and lactose?

Posted by: TheSupremeBeing

They preferentailly saturate liver glycogen, rather than muscle glycogen.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

[Edited 1 time by Maki Riddington on 08-28-2001 at 07:35 AM]

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