Need help bulking and with routine! [Forum Archive]

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Need help bulking and with routine!

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Posted by: DRUSS42

whats up? anyway I just turned 16 and I'm looking to bulk up ALOT and get bigger (I weigh 138-140 right now) I haven't been too serious about lifting but thats gonna change real soon, i'm still a little confused on what I should start with for my training routine though..

I've gone to the gym on and off, probably three times a week here and there, but i think I'd like it if I was going five-six times a week once I really get into it and I'll be careful not to overtrain. I'll go w/ heavy weight and low reps in the beginning of the week and do some lighter weight at the end of the week. some people have told me that if you wanna get big the fastest and put your body to its max then its good to train each muscle part twice a week.

So can someone tell me how I'd do with a scedule like this:

Mon - Chest and Triceps
Tue - Back and Biceps
Wed - Legs and Shoulders
Thurs - Chest and Triceps
Fri - Back and Biceps
Sat - Legs Shoulder

I'm not sure if it's good or not so thats why im asking. im not that experienced so I wanna make sure I have a good routine before I start doing anything. thanks a lot

Posted by: Built

You need to back up here, son.

The iron won't put ANY weight on you. That part comes from FOOD.

FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

Start tracking. If you don't gain, add 500 calories to your day. If you STILL don't gain, add another 500.

Your split looks like you'll be training 6 days a week. How about four more effective days? Remember, you grow outside the gym, not in it.
http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/...baby-got-back/
(it was published here too: Weight Training and Body Building - Baby Got Back)

Four days, two upper and two lower, arms on the leg days so they get a little extra hit for size, and you get low, medium and high rep ranges undulating through the week so you hit all the muscle fibres.
Kinda like how this referenced article suggests: TESTOSTERONE NATION

Posted by: powerrack

Some solid advice from built. She's right, you grow outside of the gym, when you rest. 6 days is way too much. 3-4 days tops.

Posted by: DRUSS42

how can I work all my muscles twice a week then?

Posted by: Built

BGB Programme Notes

It’s a four-day workout.

Day one is an upper body day: horizontal push-pull. This means back and chest are paired together so they don't tire each other out.

Back will hit back hard, biceps light. Chest will hit chest hard, triceps light. Chest work also hits front delts a bit.

Since there's no legwork on this day, toss in some calf work. You can throw in an ab exercise as well.

If you do seated calves on this one, do standing calves on the next upper-body day.

Day two is lower body: quad-dominant, hamstring accessory.

This means you're hitting quads heavy and hard, hams lightly. Add in an arm exercise to round this out. Either biceps or triceps - if you do triceps on this day then do biceps on the other leg day. Pick two different arm exercises - one heavy and hard, one a little lighter, slightly longer reps.

Day three is upper again: vertical push-pull. This means more back (but mostly lats), and shoulders. Biceps get another small hit here with lat work, triceps a small hit with some of the shoulder work and possibly some of the lat work.

Since there's no legwork on this day, toss in a calf exercise, and add in an ab exercise as well, just like horizontal push-pull day. Pick a different calf exercise, and a different ab exercise than you did on horizontal push-pull.

Day four is lower: hamstring dominant, quad accessory.

This workout hits the hamstrings hard and heavy while going a little lighter and longer with the quad work. You're still working all muscles hard, but with different rep ranges.

Because the arms aren't overly fatigued on hamstring-dominant day, add in two arm exercises - if you did biceps on quad-dominant day, do triceps on hamstring-dominant day.

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Do 3 days a week, 4 max. At 138 pounds, you're assuming that you have a very high recover ability even working out half as much you're looking at now. When you are very light, assuming you need MORE more more exercise is fallacious. You need to focus on 3 or 4 day a week training until you have a better feel for your capability. Focus on progressive overload, that is, increasing your performance through exercise technique and higher loads.

The two days a week per muscle group is wrong, sorry. Try that and you'll get nowhere fast, or you'll get somewhere slower. The first 6 months you should see amazing results as your muscles interact with a very new stimulus, overdoing (which is what many do) will hinder your progress. No reason to get tricky or complicated at this point, get the technique down within whatever 8-12 rep ranges and go up every week. How often do you plan on being in the gym on a workout day?

Posted by: DRUSS42

So is this four days straight? Or upper day, then a rest day, lower day, rest day, etc.?

How should I split this up throughout a 7-day week? Are any days back-to-back? Thanks for all the help by the way, I just want a good routine that'll really work and build muscle. By the way is this Baby Got Back program only mainly focusing on building a bigger back? I don't care too much about my back, I want to focus all around.

Posted by: Built

Monday: horizontal push pull
Tuesday: quad dominant
Wednesday: off
Thursday: vertical push pull
Friday: ham dominant
Saturday, Sunday: off

The split was named when I did a Romanian deadlift and heard Sir Mixalot in my head. It's a whole body split, you will work quads and hams in low, medium and high rep ranges, biceps get hit indirectly with both pulling days and directly on quad day; triceps on both pushing days and then directly on hamstring day. Back gets it with horizontal and vertical pulling, also with RDLs. Calves get hit on non-leg days, when you aren't completely wasted.

You'll see.

Now, your diet?

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

How long do you plan on spending in the gym? What is your volume of workload looking like?

Posted by: DRUSS42

I'm gonna eat as much as I can. whenever I get hungry I'll try and make it a meal and get five or six of them in there a day. I'm planning on eating tons of meats and protein, carbs, and some fat to help bulk. And I know about taking in a gram of protein for every pound I weigh.

I'm probably gonna get some supplements too but was curious as to which ones are good? Do you know any that would help with gaining muscle and size? Ive heard some good stuff about Cytogainer and ON 100% Whey Protein, and I was thinking about taking a shake of Cytogainer in the morning and before I go to sleep, and then take 100% Whey directly after my workout. I really dont know what I should take and when I should take it so some help and advice on that would be great.

As for how long I wanna work out for, probably 45 min to an hour. No more than that. and I'm probably gonna do 5-8 reps per set. First I'll do higher reps lower weight, then go down to higher weight lower reps.

Any advice would be great. thanks a lot.

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRUSS42

I'm going to track what I eat on FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal and if I don't gain, I'll add 500 calories to what I'm eating now. If I still don't gain, I'll add another 500 calories.

- fixed

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRUSS42

I know the best way to add size is to eat more food. Protein powder is just food, but it's drinkable so it's easy to get the extra calories in. There is no magic supplement that will add weight. Just food.

Also corrected.

Homemade weight gainer: scoop of your favourite protein powder, scoop of dextrose (go to a winemaking supply store and get a tub of dextrose, it's cheap and it's the right kind of sugar), shot of olive oil and or a few tablespoons of peanut butter, ice cubes, milk in the blender. Easy cheap calories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRUSS42

As for how long I wanna work out for, probably 45 min to an hour. No more than that. and I'm probably gonna do 5-8 reps per set. First I'll do higher reps lower weight, then go down to higher weight lower reps.

Any advice would be great. thanks a lot.

You've already been given instructions on how to gain weight and even a fully-worked-out, balanced, science-based lifting split.

Now go forth and get huge, k?

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRUSS42

I'm gonna eat as much as I can. whenever I get hungry I'll try and make it a meal and get five or six of them in there a day. I'm planning on eating tons of meats and protein, carbs, and some fat to help bulk. And I know about taking in a gram of protein for every pound I weigh.

I'm probably gonna get some supplements too but was curious as to which ones are good? Do you know any that would help with gaining muscle and size? Ive heard some good stuff about Cytogainer and ON 100% Whey Protein, and I was thinking about taking a shake of Cytogainer in the morning and before I go to sleep, and then take 100% Whey directly after my workout. I really dont know what I should take and when I should take it so some help and advice on that would be great.

As for how long I wanna work out for, probably 45 min to an hour. No more than that. and I'm probably gonna do 5-8 reps per set. First I'll do higher reps lower weight, then go down to higher weight lower reps.

Any advice would be great. thanks a lot.

After your workouts, you will be in a glycogen deficient state. Refresh that before you take your protein supplement, doing so makes the whole compensation/adaptive stage more efficient. I disagree with the 5-8 reps per set. As a beginner, for the first few weeks, use higher reps to learn the movement patterns of the exercises themselves. This will force you to keep the weight a bit lower, require more detail attention, better motor-learning (higher reps = more practice) and thus more proprioceptive feedback helping with adjustment to the motion itself and the difficulty of the workload.

Go easy on the total number of sets, too. 45 minutes is perfectly sufficient. Stick to the basics, paying close attention to technique for exercises like squats and deadlifts. DO both squats and deadlifts, too, or else you'll be missing out.

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Progress every single workout. If you stop moving forward, adjust. More is not better, necessarily, so don't assume stagnation is a result of to little work.

Posted by: Built

Honestly, I'm not a fan of higher-rep workouts for newbs. I can imprint incorrect movement patterns as they rep out their set while their form deteriorates. I like to keep reps between 5-8 for novices. Better to do multiple low-rep sets than to practice the pattern wrong.

My .02

Not sayin' "go heavy", hear?

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Honestly, I'm not a fan of higher-rep workouts for newbs. I can imprint incorrect movement patterns as they rep out their set while their form deteriorates. I like to keep reps between 5-8 for novices. Better to do multiple low-rep sets than to practice the pattern wrong.

My .02

Not sayin' "go heavy", hear?

Learning how to continue movement as muscle fatigue creeps up for working muscle groups is an important consideration regarding beginners. A part of motor learning is involved with "discovering" how to program action as the muscles become exhausted.

I believe that training his nervous system to coordinate things efficiently not just when the movement is relatively easy and non-demanding, but when things become difficult, too, makes more sense.

While more sets with lower reps are not wrong (I'm not indicating that), I feel that the higher reps for a beginner offer more benefit. Because the load is less, there is less general danger of the trainee getting stuck in a position where they can't safely complete the exercise. The lower weight usually allows for better form as the limitation is approached. The coordinated effort of fatigued muscles, not just fresh muscles, gets practiced. The trainee has to fight through a mental barrier and gains a better understanding of their reasonable limits, not just their perceptive ones, overcoming fear and experiencing something that is often a requirement for optimized success. Again, I'm not indicating your suggestion is wrong or not effective, just that I disagree with it on a minor technicality.

And as far as the first few weeks are concerned, I am absolutely recommending pushing toward muscle failure at the end of that rep range for the last one or two sets for an exercise. Almost always, well before the actual limit, the client begins to panic and tries to quit as fatigue kicks in. Overcoming this impulse is absolutely necessary, learning to identify it and understand the difference between physical capability and mental fear. It's important with all my clients as novices to establish a work ethic that infuses them with fundamental recognition of what is required to proceed. Not suggesting you mean otherwise, I just feel that slightly higher rep-ranges achieve this better regarding initial motor learning.

Posted by: danzik17

God please move to CT. I would kill to work with a trainer of your/Pfunks calibur without having to go to the city.

Posted by: Built

Duncan, I respect your education, but we're going to have to agree to disagree. I NEVER push newbs to failure. And I've seen too many novice lifters develop poor training habits from performing high-rep squats with lousy form. I used to agree with you - but experience and old age have taught me otherwise.

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Duncan, I respect your education, but we're going to have to agree to disagree. I NEVER push newbs to failure. And I've seen too many novice lifters develop poor training habits from performing high-rep squats with lousy form. I used to agree with you - but experience and old age have taught me otherwise.

I would not advise anyone to do high rep squats or deadlifts as a novice, and especially not to failure. Some of the terms should be more explicit. There are some exercises that, as a novice, would be highly inadvisable without much much practice. Power cleans would be another example.

Assuming that FORM is kept and with strict attention; and assuming newbies assistance with someone that can assist in motivation and spotting for certain exercises, such a I think pushing to failure on one of several sets (1/3, moving toward failure on the last) is extremely beneficial both mentally and for developing the form itself.

If you are working by yourself, though, the failure part would be a greater risk. This doesn't take away the benefit of working through more difficult muscle fatigue as you move beyond reps 9, 10, and 11.

I understand your objection to a beginner using muscle failure, especially without supervision, and especially regarding certain exercises. That point shouldn't be overlooked, and it may be the best advice to take if you have nobody with experience helping you.

Posted by: Built

Thanks for this, Duncan. My perspective comes from that of a novice unassisted trainee picking it up from the internet, or of an older person who has not lifted before. I start novices on the whole-body workout I have written up in my log. In my world, novices may be in their thirties, forties or fifties, and spook easily. Part of their buy-in comes from noting the seemingly short workouts with long rest breaks. I try to keep them from getting too much DOMS right away, so they don't get discouraged. By keeping it short and simple - the workout only has seven exercises - they learn the basic movement patterns that will form the basis of all their future workouts.

Posted by: Duncans Donuts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Thanks for this, Duncan. My perspective comes from that of a novice unassisted trainee picking it up from the internet, or of an older person who has not lifted before. I start novices on the whole-body workout I have written up in my log. In my world, novices may be in their thirties, forties or fifties, and spook easily. Part of their buy-in comes from noting the seemingly short workouts with long rest breaks. I try to keep them from getting too much DOMS right away, so they don't get discouraged. By keeping it short and simple - the workout only has seven exercises - they learn the basic movement patterns that will form the basis of all their future workouts.

Yes indeed, thanks for pointing out my vague simplification, or as they say "different strokes for different folks." I think we're operating from a very minor variant in thinking. My approach has always been geared toward athletes and no-nonsense aggressiveness. A notable point is that the implementation of techniques DEPENDS on the person and the circumstances. I would likely be far more gentle dealing with a fresh, timid person who is disassociated from the gym culture. Being wary of things like DOMS, and making them feel more at ease (for some people, this integration and the way its handled makes the difference between easily melting into the fitness lifestyle and being scared out and sacrificing a healthy, happier life) would take higher priority than my military-like methodology of "perform-or-piss-off". When suggesting things to people who don't have a benefit of an experienced trainer or spotter or whatever, I should be less vague.

It would be absolutely horrible, as was pointed out, for someone unskilled in a squat or other complicated compound lift to use the general terms I set out for generic beginners. The approach Built promotes with beginners is a great one. To the person of this thread, do NOT push to muscle failure unless you have someone experienced watching your form! I do think its okay to push yourself through a higher degree of fatigue within an anaerobic tension time on the higher end of the rep range, but in practice it may not be worth the risk. Under such conditions, it is better safe or sorry. Regardless, either will work, and judging from the gusto approach of the thread starter if you have a good workout partner I would use that advantage by testing your limits during the last set of each performed exercise SAFELY with dutiful commitment to form.

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