can anyone help me? [Forum Archive]

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can anyone help me?

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Posted by: Deisel

im 14 about 5'11 250lb i want to know how i can lose weight and gain muscle at the same time

Posted by: bigss75

It is very diffcult to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. I would say go on a diet before you try to gain muscle. I know some people would disagree and say he is too young for a diet but weighing 250 at 14 I am thinking you are overweight no offense. If I where you I would look at the best nutriction thread that is posted on the top and read dr. pains fat loss premeir I believe it is called. Also remember that is for a 180 pound person so you should adjust it to yourself. Weightlift if you dont. As for cardio try to do it 3x a week for around 30 mins. Remember to drink alot of water and have a cheat meal once or twice a week. This doesnt mean pig out just dont be afraid to eat a hamburger , or eat some chicken wings.

Posted by: J'Bo

Deisel,

Why did you start two of the very same threads?
Keep everything in one place then you wont have to repeat yourself.

Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:

Originally posted by J'Bo
Deisel,

Why did you start two of the very same threads?
Keep everything in one place then you wont have to repeat yourself.

I only see one in nutrition...perhaps he needs help w/ training as well?

Deisel....we can help you

Can you post what you eat on a typical day so we have somewhere to start?

Check this thread out ...there's some important threads in there that will help you unerstand what kind of foods to eat and what kind to avoid.

At your age, we want you to learn about healthy eating and making a commitment to that, rather than going on a "diet". Healthy eating is a lifestyle that everyone should follow at all times, not just to lose fat.

Obviously, junk foods are out, I'm sure you know that, but you can still splurge once in a while if you follow a healthy eating plan the rest of the time. But there's other foods you need to learn to avoid...or at least, learn when to eat them. Can you read the Fat Loss Primer and High Fat/Protein, Low Carb Diet in the link I gave you above?

Because you are relatively new to the gym, it's very possible to add some muscle while dropping fat, especially w/ the proper diet!

Posted by: BUSTINOUT

IMHO...you cannot do both. It's hard enough to preserve what you have while restricting calories. And that is even harder without "supplementation". I say hit the cardio and clean up the diet first. From the sounds of it, I'm ASSuming the gym is pretty new to you. You will burn out faster than you can say, "This exercise stuff sucks farts out of dead chickens!" It is a process. Consider this, you did not get to 240 all at once, so don't try to fix it all at once. Take it slow and steady and you will be much happpier with your results. Just the change in body composition will surprise you.

Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:

Originally posted by BUSTINOUT
IMHO...you cannot do both. It hard enough to preserve what you have while restricting calories. And that is even harder without "supplementation". I say hit the cardio and clean up the diet first. From the sounds of it, I'm ASSuming the gym is pretty new to you. You will burn out faster than you can say, "This exercise stuff sucks farts out of dead chickens!" It is a process. Consider this, you did not get to 240 all at once, so don't try to fix it all at once. Take it slow and steady and you will be much happpier with your results.

I've done it...so has DP...so have many of his clients....you can add muscle and drop BF on maintenance w/ the proper macro composition. Eventually, you'll have to tweak your calories up or down according to your main priority, but constant tweaking is a given w/ any diet.

Posted by: Deisel

for breakfast i eat a bowl of wheaties with cut up strawberries and a slim fast for lunch i eat a bowl of salad for dinner almost everytime i eat some sort of meat with veggies and a starchy food like a baked potatoe

Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:

Originally posted by Deisel
for breakfast i eat a bowl of wheaties with cut up strawberries and a slim fast for lunch i eat a bowl of salad for dinner almost everytime i eat some sort of meat with veggies and a starchy food like a baked potatoe

That's it?....what about snacks, school, hanging w/ friends? What else do you eat?

The slim fast is really bad for you. It's just sugar....you need to avoid sugar like the plague.

Posted by: J'Bo

I have done it too. Added 2 lbs of LBM and lost 4% BF in 3 weeks.

Posted by: Deisel

oops man didnt mean to post again eheh

Posted by: Deisel

ya but on the can it says high in carbs i thought that like carbsand starches were good for weight loss and stuff

Posted by: Deisel

im not really into snacks i dont like alot of sweet stuff

Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:

Originally posted by Deisel
ya but on the can it says high in carbs i thought that like carbsand starches were good for weight loss and stuff

There's different types of carbs....slimfast is the sugar type...a rapid-burning carbohydrate is the worst type of food to eat for fat loss. Not all carbs are bad though....slow burning carbs are okay to eat...things like sweet potatoes, brown rice, old fashioned oats, apples, peaches, berries, grapefruit and of course dark green leafy veggies.

Are you going to read the links I gave you?

Posted by: Duncan

Quote:

Originally posted by w8lifter

I've done it...so has DP...so have many of his clients....you can add muscle and drop BF on maintenance w/ the proper macro composition. Eventually, you'll have to tweak your calories up or down according to your main priority, but constant tweaking is a given w/ any diet.

You mean theoretically of course. I believe most of the gain in lean mass people experience on a maintenance diet can be compensated for in the standard error of the device used.

Hey, I am drunk and philosophical so deal with it.

Posted by: w8lifter

Shut the hell up you drunk fuq

Posted by: Deisel

ya iv got the links saved and im read 2 of em already

Posted by: Deisel

ok im goina do spell check every time i type something so i dont look so damn stupid

Posted by: LAM

In Deisel's case I have to go with BO...

J'Bo and W8lifter, you gals forget this guy is a newbie to this.

It is much easier for advanced people like us to gain LBM while dropping body fat. IMO, It will be much easier for him to do one at a time.

Posted by: Deisel

are dried potatoes or raw potatoes good for me? for like carbs?

Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:

Originally posted by LAM
In Deisel's case I have to go with BO...

J'Bo and W8lifter, you gals forget this guy is a newbie to this.

It is much easier for advanced people like us to gain LBM while dropping body fat. IMO, It will be much easier for him to do one at a time.

I haven't forgotten at all. There is nothing to say he can't or shouldn't be in the gym training hard to gain a little LBM....obviously he needs to focus on one or the other first, but it's not to exclude the other...and I think you're wrong, it's far easier for a newbie to make major improvements in their body composition than it is for an advanced athlete who's been training for years...who has to fight for every lb of LBM gained...assuming of course they have the proper guidance w/ training and nutrition.

Posted by: w8lifter

Quote:

Originally posted by Deisel
are dried potatoes or raw potatoes good for me? for like carbs?

Regular potatoes in general are not that good for you, they are high glycemic, which means they produce an insulin spike....once you spike your insulin, fat burning stops for several hours....all sugar will spike your insulin...it's why you need to stay away from it!

A good alternative is sweet potatoes or yams.

Posted by: Deisel

man this is like one of the coolest sites iv ever seen

Posted by: Deisel

Posted by: Deisel

thanks for the info you guys are awsome

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally posted by w8lifter

and I think you're wrong, it's far easier for a newbie to make major improvements in their body composition than it is for an advanced athlete who's been training for years...who has to fight for every lb of LBM gained...assuming of course they have the proper guidance w/ training and nutrition.

I was going to disagee with his statement also!

And I still say it is almost impossible to gain muscle while loosing weight. Like I've said before, it is minute. We want to gain lbs and lbs and that aint gonna happen unless you eat big! And if you eat big, you ain't gonna loose weight even eating the right foods!

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally posted by J'Bo
I have done it too. Added 2 lbs of LBM and lost 4% BF in 3 weeks.

So this means you have lost somewhere near 5 lbs and gained 2 back in muscle??

by christmas you should be 40 lbs heavier and same body fat!!

Posted by: J'Bo

Well no i am not going to be 40 lbs heavier by Christmas you smart a$$, cause i am not training or dieting like i did then. Your just being a pain in my but now.

Posted by: TriZZle305

Quote:

Originally posted by dg806

I was going to disagee with his statement also!

And I still say it is almost impossible to gain muscle while loosing weight. Like I've said before, it is minute. We want to gain lbs and lbs and that aint gonna happen unless you eat big! And if you eat big, you ain't gonna loose weight even eating the right foods!

i will counter this statement, especially since it contains the word "impossible" if one is a newbie... as is diesel... than it is very easy to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time all he has to do is lift... by lifting he will lose fat because of the increased amt. of muscles he will be using which leads to the increased amount of calories he'll be burning. i know from experience that you can do both at the same time..

Posted by: Deisel

thanks man

Posted by: crackerjack414

to start every one remember hes just 14 years old. Not to sound to harsh but you shouldnt realy be dieting that hard. Your body is going through so many changes its realy hard to predict what will happen. My recomendations are very simple forget about the slim fast and all that diet crap. Start by eating good whole natural foods. Fruits vegetables salads etc. Then I would say try to start weight training 2 to 3 days a week. Since you are new to it you can workout your upper and lower body on the same days as you wish.It will eventuely have split up the work outs for differnt regions on differnt days Ie bench upper body day legs lower body day. Shoulders abs day. start with no weight on the bar and learn the whole motion of the exercise correctly. This will help you out further down the road. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html
this is a good link with exercises and proper form. My recomendations are to cut out as much as the sweets and junk food as possible. If you drink soda either convert to diet or graduely phase it out. Try to eat a good starchy carb with protein in every meal.
An example would be dinner have a chicken breast baked potatoe and some salad or greens. One thing to look out for is is the stuff you put on the potatoe butter sour cream etc add alot of extra cals. Ill try to give u a few easy meals for you
.5 cups oatmeal and scrambled eggs
2 peices toast scrammbled eggs.
half a cup of cottage cheese blended with half a cup of strawberrys and a little milk

brown rice chicken breast veggies
chicken breast cut up in a salad and fat free dressing
Its ok to have some junk food every once in a while. ( once a week is fine). Just remember it all takes time and dont be in to big of a hurry. LOL I wish some one would have told me all of this stuff 5 years ago

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally posted by J'Bo
Well no i am not going to be 40 lbs heavier by Christmas you smart a$$, cause i am not training or dieting like i did then. Your just being a pain in my but now.

No i'm not! I'm just saying what I believe to be the truth! I started dieting at about 200 and went to 160. I am around 180 now! And then that is behind 2 years very heavy lifting, eating tons of protein, and doing several cycles of 1-ad and syntrax sauce. Now that would only be 10 lbs a year if it was all muscle, which is very unlikely! So how do you expect me to believe a woman can gain 2 lbs in three weeks not even eating any carbs?? No way in hades! Believe what you want, but it is wrong!
BTW...if your resorting to name calling, I can be a pain in the ass!

Posted by: Lightman009

If your carrying 250 at 5'11, you should already have some muscle underneath the fat, so when you lose the fat, some muscle will start to appear and it will seem like you are gaining muscle, even if you havent been weightlifting much.

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally posted by dg806

No i'm not! I'm just saying what I believe to be the truth! I started dieting at about 200 and went to 160. I am around 180 now! And then that is behind 2 years very heavy lifting, eating tons of protein, and doing several cycles of 1-ad and syntrax sauce. Now that would only be 10 lbs a year if it was all muscle, which is very unlikely! So how do you expect me to believe a woman can gain 2 lbs in three weeks not even eating any carbs?? No way in hades! Believe what you want, but it is wrong!
BTW...if your resorting to name calling, I can be a pain in the ass!

Training to lose fat requires different methods than training to gain muscle. Losing fat involves eating a low calorie diet, while building muscle requires a higher calorie diet.

This is a point that most hardgainers don't realize -- if you want to get bigger and gain more muscle, you will have to deal with the fact that you will also gain some additional body fat. Period. This is due to the high calorie diet you must eat to build more mass.

Though some people will be able to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, most WILL NOT. The fact is, there are no magic pills, powders, foods or exercises that will allow you to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. It all is determined by your genetics and metabolism.

Posted by: TriZZle305

and age.... and level of fitness you are at... its very easy to do both when you are just starting out

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally posted by TriZZle305
and age.... and level of fitness you are at... its very easy to do both when you are just starting out

Did you just pull that off the top of your head or are you baseing this on some fact?

Posted by: TriZZle305

fact and experience..

Posted by: dg806

Ok.....show me the fact if it exist!

Posted by: dg806

Found this on a bb's web page.......

"To get big you got to eat big" that statement is true. This statement is false "you can get bigger and stay lean". The truth hurts but the only real way I know how to gain real muscle mass is by consuming large quantities of protein and carbs. Yes, you will gain some fat and there is no way around it. If there was, I’d be doing it. Also "you can’t build without anything to build with". On a diet you are either trying to gain muscle weight or you are trying to lose body fat. There is no in between, just a median where you pretty much stay the same. Now there is a point to where your body won’t hold any more body fat and it is time to diet and lose some weight so you can bulk up again. As an estimate I usually gain 10 to 40 lbs (40 lbs every time I bulk up after being at a real low level of bodyfat. And I want my size and strength back. Example I dieted from 250 to 210 then I gained back the weight after I had fun being lean for awhile). I generally gain a few pounds of muscle every time I do so. Also you can cycle your bulking up diet (1 month on and 1 month cutting up). When bulking up you don't have to gain alot of weight. It can be as little as 5 pounds. Then you can cycle off of that and lose the extra fat. Little cycles of bulking up work very well. Especially if you are not sure if you can lose all the fat. No when I diet, I don’t lose it all when I diet because I take my time losing it. If you think that way, then why am I stronger at my present weight than I was last year. Why are my arms larger? Its the ugly truth and until you can realize this, you will stay the same miserable weight for years. Remember that a bulking up diet is almost like a "YO-YO" diet. Gain weight take it off, gain weight take it off. I eat like a total pig and I would also expect anyone who was training hard to eat like one too. If you don’t up your calories and protein when working out hard you will end up burning hard earned muscle.

Posted by: crackerjack414

To a point I agrea with Rosco. But you can stay relativly lean if you break your bulk and cut cycles small. Like a 1 month bulk cycle where you go 300 cals over maintence followed by 2 weeks of a cutting cycle. Sure you wont get awsome gains in muscle like a huge bulk and cut cycle. But you wont get realy fat either

Posted by: TriZZle305

lol you are completely misunderstanding what im saying so youre really not debating what im saying ... im sayin you can lose fat and gain muscles when youre not lean and just beginning to workout especially at a younger age... like say a person is starting of at 30 % body fat and that person begins to workout... they will gain muscle and lose fat as well... im not saying if a person is lean and they want to gain muscle they can without gaining fat as well...

Posted by: dg806

trizzle...the only known and proven way to gain muscle is to eat more calories than is required to maintain your weight! If you lose fat, your loosing weight. The only way to do that is consume less calories than it takes to maintain weight! When you do than your body is taking muscle with it!! Now, when you do that you increase the percentage of muscle you have vs. the amount of fat per bodyweight, But that does not mean you have gained muscle!!

Posted by: TriZZle305

well to some degree muscle size and muscle strength are related... maybe im wrong but if i find the post where i read it ill put a link... so if you are new at working out, you will begin to lose fat(assuming you keep your diet the same) because you begin to use more calories than you normally would on an every day basis before you began to workout.... so youre burning more calories and fat... however.. at the same time he/she is gaining stength and possibly size because of the new stress on the muscles... theoretically and scientific you're 100% right because i have no proof or evidence of this being so... but im not the only one who says ive done it...

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally posted by TriZZle305
however.. at the same time he/she is gaining stength and possibly size because of the new stress on the muscles... theoretically and scientific you're 100% right because i have no proof or evidence of this being so...

This sounds good in theory, but I can tell you from experience from my lifting everytime my weight goes down I am weaker in my bench and almost every other exercise....and on the other hand when I pig out and my weight goes up, I get stronger. I have had several lifting partners and they have the same effect!

Posted by: TriZZle305

yeah but youre im assuming a well seasoned vet.. when you were younger and new to it you didnt lose weight and gain a lil strength too?

Posted by: dg806

well I started about 1985 when I was about 21. Stuck with it only for 1 1/2 years...gym went out of business! And I was a little shyt so I had nowhere to go but up..I didn't try to lose..I was skinny. I have been back hard at it now for almost 2 years non-stop. I am 38 now. And i did lose some weight initially, but It is hard gaining no matter how hard you train and eat!! It comes very slow naturally! Of course 1-ad and syntrax sauce has helped me out lots. I am getting ready to start a 1-test gel by avant! I hear some great stuff out of this product. I'm syched!

Posted by: crackerjack414

Whats the point of taking prohormones any way, all the side effects of the real stuff and about half of the results.

Posted by: dg806

See that is where you put your foot in your mouth..there are no short term side affects of 1-ad or 1-test. And for some they have had tremendous results! I have just purchased 1-test by avant so we will see how it goes!

Posted by: J'Bo

I CANT BELIEVE YOU PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS STUFF, THE GUY IS 14 FOR F#%$ SAKES.

Posted by: TriZZle305

no need to sheild our eyes and ears we've heard of and seen it before

Posted by: dg806

Quote:

Originally posted by J'Bo
I CANT BELIEVE YOU PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS STUFF, THE GUY IS 14 FOR F#%$ SAKES.

No need to shout.........

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can anyone help me?

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