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Originally Posted by ukeagle
Hi all,
I am on my first cycle and I am taking only Sustanon 250 (twice a week - Mon/Thu - 500mg a week). I am at the end of my 4th week and still have not seen great results only that I went from 58Kg (127lbs) to 61Kg (134lbs). Which is not really great. People say one should see massive results from week 3, but where is it??? I have been eating a lot, having a balanced diet with proper carbs/protein (more than usual) and still, apart from some definition and ripped abs, I am not really bulking up. Does this really happen to some people? Am I doing something wrong? I know I am what they call an ectomorph and it is incredibly hard for me to put on weight. Can anybody help? Thanks y'all |
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Originally Posted by Mudge
7 pounds may not seem so great but that is 5.5% of your bodyweight which for a lot of other people would be 10 pounds or greater, which makes it sound like you are doing just fine.
However, if you are 127 pounds you should have stayed natural for awhile to figure out your body first. |
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Originally Posted by Built
Thank you so much for doing this! So many guys just give me lip when I suggest this.
Okay you are eating 3000 calories a day and not gaining. The solution is simple: start eating 3500 calories a day, EVERY DAY, and monitor your gains. If you don't gain on this, go to 4000. I guarantee you gains. How much protein? At least a gram per pound lean mass, but honestly, 1.5 or even 2 g per pound lean mass isn't a bad idea. Fat - at least half a gram per pound lean mass. Higher is fine - just don't go lower. Carbs - whatever. Get in your protein and fat minimums, and fill up the rest of your calories from whatever you want. Just make DAMNED sure you get in 3500 calories a day. Feel free to take advantage of olive oil - a shot of olive oil in each of two shakes takes care of your extra calories. Get back to me in a week, lemme know how you feel. |
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Originally Posted by Built
There you go.
The thing you have to be aware of is that a maintenance calculator only works on population averages, not individuals. If you eat 3000 calories a day and neither gain nor lose, no matter how "unreasonable" you think that is, that is YOUR maintenance. To gain, eat more. To lose, east less. Don't feel stupid if you didn't put this together earlier - there's an entire industry that feeds on people not knowing this. As silly as it sounds when you see it in print, muscle is not made out of air. A 3-oz bottle of magic beans will NOT put 20 lbs of lean mass on your frame. Neither steroids, nor supplements, nor heavy lifting will make you gain weight. Those things just direct calorie-traffic toward your muscles. You have to actually EAT those calories or there's nothing to direct. |
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Originally Posted by KungFu
Wheres the BEEF. CHICKEN ECT>>>>>
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Originally Posted by Built
Not eating beef - not a problem. Chicken, fish, eggs, cottage cheese, whey - you're fine.
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
im also on my 2nd day of week 3 with sust i stared my first week with 1000 mg and every 7 days 500 mg and i have no results im taking in 3,930 calories a day 363 grams of protein 402 g of carbs 97g of fat and working out 4 days a week on a killer workout plan that leaves my body sore then i might work a 5th day to tap a muscle group i want to improve im no stronger or bigger im 5'8 184 9% body fat any ideas i bought my sus from a guy in kurachi pakistan my friends say they feel it but i do not what do you guys think??
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
What built said is true to an extent.
But if you are using gear that is basically vegtable oil neatly packaged in Organon Amps, eating a ton more is just going to pack on a shit ton of fat. That being said I looked into the discrepencies of the Paki Sus, and some say they have seen gains from both of the amps pictured in my earlier response. But I don't know for sure. |
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
no im 5'8 184 pounds i have 4 days till my next inject im gonna try to bump it up to 750mg a week for 2 weeks see what happens im eatin a hell of a lot and training hard so i know those two things arent holding me back....
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
no im 5'8 184 pounds i have 4 days till my next inject im gonna try to bump it up to 750mg a week for 2 weeks see what happens im eatin a hell of a lot and training hard so i know those two things arent holding me back....
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
well im gonna do as i said on the 25th inject 750 if nothing still i will try the eod method starting 2nd of may i have some enanthate i was considering stacking if this dont work i want to gain mass everyone said SUS!! but now i have shitty results any hint on what i can use so i can plan out my next cycle?? im also bumping up to 5000 calories a day i hope i dont get fat.....
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
Here's another possible answer as to why you havent seen substantial gains after 3 weeks, I simply copied this from another link which I will attach:
30mg of prop 60mg of phenylprop 60mg of isocaproate 100mg of deconate 30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benifits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week. 60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, getwoods powder). If injected twice a week, then lets even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week. To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. 60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time. 100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Decca-Durabolin. The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. This is what your sustanon cycle looks like if you inject on a once or twice a week basis. wk1 wk6 wk10 wk12 ---- / \ / \ / \ / \ _________________\ So right now you may not have much in the way of short acting esters, and it will take a few weeks for the longer acting esters to start to really add up. This is precisely why I plan on pinning eod, at 1/2ml and front loading d-bol in order to mitigate the low levels of short acting esters. In short, you are already 3 weeks in, but I still think you could switch to an eod injection schedule. If you don't make sure you go alls out weeks 6-10. I hope this has been somewhat helpful. If you do switch please keep us posted with updates. here is the full link, I suggest you read it, he advocates shooting 1ml every day until you run out and then letting the esters do their work. It's a thought, but I still think that I'll pin every other day, may opt to inject the full ml. Because the fact is you're really not getting 500mg of test every week. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/an...stanon250.html Maybe someone can help with the math if you inject 1/2ml every other day are you essentially achieving the same imablanced levels? |
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Originally Posted by Shadowcam
Dont blame the gear on your shitty results. With your attitude you will never make any progress. Forget the gear and learn how to eat and train.
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
STEROIDS are supposed to give you above average results!!
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
Are you serious guy?? I know very well how to train and diet...thats why i went from 150 to 180 naturally .ive been lifting for four years now ..lets keep in mind that im using STEROIDS!!! for the last 3 and a half weeks. im not saying im not gaining anything, im not gaining anything above normal. ummmm STEROIDS are supposed to give you above average results!! so obviously you dont know that?? hmmmm maybe thats why their illegal and sprts teams cracks down on them so much.. if im using them and i can tell you my training plan and meal plan its great and im not getting anything ummm im blaming it on the "GEAR"!!!!!Steroids are used by just about anyone who wants to increase their muscle size and strength, as well as individuals trying to lose body fat. In the past, their use was mostly seen in college, Olympic, and professional sports, but today, these drugs are being used by both competitive as well as noncompetitive athletes. Teens as young as 12-years-old have reported using these compounds. In general society, firefighters and police officers use them to better handle the daily rigors of their jobs. Bouncers and military personal use them to better prepare their bodies for combat.so i cant believe i wasted my time on your uneducated post.. umm now that you know what steroids are used for by people abusing them like me you can rethink your stupid judgement....
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Originally Posted by Gazhole
And they do this by vastly increasing the rate at which your body can absorb and utilize protein/calories for an increased rate of muscle repair, recovery, and synthesis of new tissue.
So with this increased potential for muscle gain, how long do you think the calories you eat WITHOUT steroids are going to last? A Corvette will guzzle the fuel it takes to run your scooter in about three seconds, right? Gear isnt magic. The calories have to come from somewhere, dude. Right now if you're eating the same amount of food as you were when you're off gear, you might as well be OFF THE GEAR. You aren't doing anything with this increased potential. Get it? EAT MORE. |
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Originally Posted by largepkg
It's pretty simple. The two long esthers haven't built up in your system yet. The prop alone isn't high enough to make a significant difference in size to this point.
Upping your dosage is simply dumb. Give it a few more weeks and make sure you're eating a good diet at surplus and you'll gain. If you still don't gain, eat more! This is fairly basic knowledge and Shadow is just reflecting that. Maybe not in the most delicate way but... |
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Originally Posted by largepkg
When I ran Sus I pinned EOD. It was a pain but I wanted to take advantage of the short esthers.
IMO, the time it takes for the deconate to kick in doesn't make Sus a very good option. Go with Cyp or E instead. Unless you don't mind pinning ED or EOD then go with prop. |
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
Large,
What would you think about pinning 1/2ml every other day: 15mg of prop 30mg of phenylprop 30mg of isocaproate 50mg of deconate I'm trying to stabilize test levels throughout the cycle, and would be frontloading d-bol at 25-30mg per day for the first four weeks I had considered shooting 1ml every other day but I think the test levels would be excessive for me. At every three days the prop is less effective, so what about going eod but reducing the dosing? Anyone have educated insight on this possible dosing schedule? |
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
I already have everything in hand so it's going to be pinning eod, but did you pin 1ml eod? Would pinning eod with 1/2ml be the same mechanism for stabilizing levels, or would the decreased amount defeat the purpose? (and again I would front load with d-bol)
I am new to AAS, I did one 10ml cycle of andropen 275 four years ago, and saw very nice results. I just don't want to go nuts and overload on test if I don't need to. I should have gone with Cyp or E but it's too late so I need to make due as best I can. |
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
i am starting to see myself gaining fat and i know its from all these extra calories im putting in my meal plan i did read what you posted thats why i considered the eod approach if it doesnt work out the other way i also read the link you posted which was the same thing you posted except they they were saying also to maybe try one vial a day for a certain period of time..i dont like that idea at all but... i do take everything you all post into consideration and try to seperate everything i need to know and maybe start or stop doing well i just got back from the gym today was chest and tri's i still felt no stronger but when i got on the scale i weighed 187 cant tell in the mirrior or underneath of weights so im geussing its fat....or the million different meals in my stomach...
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Originally Posted by largepkg
Yea, at your level .5ml is about right EOD. I was running it at 1ml EOD. I see nothing wrong with that cycle.
Actually the dbol might not even be needed but I'm sure if you have it already I won't be able to discourage you from running it. You'll make good gains on the sus alone. If your going to run the dbol keep it at 25ED. No reason to move up from that. |
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
Are you serious guy?? I know very well how to train and diet...thats why i went from 150 to 180 naturally .ive been lifting for four years now ..lets keep in mind that im using STEROIDS!!! for the last 3 and a half weeks. im not saying im not gaining anything, im not gaining anything above normal. ummmm STEROIDS are supposed to give you above average results!! so obviously you dont know that?? hmmmm maybe thats why their illegal and sprts teams cracks down on them so much.. if im using them and i can tell you my training plan and meal plan its great and im not getting anything ummm im blaming it on the "GEAR"!!!!!Steroids are used by just about anyone who wants to increase their muscle size and strength, as well as individuals trying to lose body fat. In the past, their use was mostly seen in college, Olympic, and professional sports, but today, these drugs are being used by both competitive as well as noncompetitive athletes. Teens as young as 12-years-old have reported using these compounds. In general society, firefighters and police officers use them to better handle the daily rigors of their jobs. Bouncers and military personal use them to better prepare their bodies for combat.so i cant believe i wasted my time on your uneducated post.. umm now that you know what steroids are used for by people abusing them like me you can rethink your stupid judgement....
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Originally Posted by Shadowcam
AAAH the history of steroids! such a well educated man! Please tell me the point you are trying to make with that ridiculus post????
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
Well good news Lindsey Brohan, it looks like your aggressiveness is right on par.
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
Because your acting like steroids is a protein shake or something when indeed diet and training play a big role but there is nothing wrong with my diet or training...your trying to tell me how to bodybuild naturally i know how to bodybuild naturally...but im not right now im on steroids and i would like to see gains as if i were on steroids...
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
Honestly if you give me good reason to hold off on the d-bol I will, based on lots of research and some advice from vets around here I held of on adding decca and I'm literally sitting on 4000mg I will probably never use.
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
yess i did 1000 in one day four amps then seven days later did 500 and so on the 25th will be my fourth pin and 4th week...
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
Well mystery solved.
Here's what happened: day 1-3 you had 120mg of prop and 240 of phenylprop. Then on the fourth day you had nothing, and continued in such a state until you injected again. Then a week later you had 240 of iso and 90 of prop and phenylprop. And a week after that the deconate will start to release. Every injection, for 1ml, you are going to get that 90mg of short acting 1-3 days, 60mg of mid-range esters a week to release, and 100mg of longer acting esters 2-3 weeks to release. If I had to guess I bet you felt pretty reved up for the first three days after, for some reason, injection 1000mg at once. Then you crashed hard. This seems to explain your low sex drive. You put in just enough test to suppress endogenous production and then waited, 7 days before putting in minimal amounts of short acting test. My suggestion, and I am by no means an expert, start shooting 1/2ml every other day. If you can get your hands on HCG do it and shoot 500iu every 5 weeks until two weeks after your last sus injection. If I could be so bold: What made you think shooting 1000mg of sus at once was a good idea? |
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
Well mystery solved.
Here's what happened: day 1-3 you had 120mg of prop and 240 of phenylprop. Then on the fourth day you had nothing, and continued in such a state until you injected again. Then a week later you had 240 of iso and 90 of prop and phenylprop. And a week after that the deconate will start to release. Every injection, for 1ml, you are going to get that 90mg of short acting 1-3 days, 60mg of mid-range esters a week to release, and 100mg of longer acting esters 2-3 weeks to release. If I had to guess I bet you felt pretty reved up for the first three days after, for some reason, injection 1000mg at once. Then you crashed hard. This seems to explain your low sex drive. You put in just enough test to suppress endogenous production and then waited, 7 days before putting in minimal amounts of short acting test. My suggestion, and I am by no means an expert, start shooting 1/2ml every other day. If you can get your hands on HCG do it and shoot 500iu every 5 weeks until two weeks after your last sus injection. If I could be so bold: What made you think shooting 1000mg of sus at once was a good idea? |
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
my freind who im doinga cycle with has done test E and told me you had to load up on your first shot obviously he didnt know what he was talkin about..yess after i did 1000 i felt crazy like my stomach was jittery and always felt empty i had a realy alert and impatience goin on then i felt sick like a runny nose stuffy head but after about 3 days it went away so i didnt really know what was happening.... i have no way to get my hands on hcg the list i sent on page 2 is everything my dealer had i have a hand full of nolvadex people said that would be good to come down..is that not the case???
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
ARE YOU TELLING ME YOU HAVE NO PCT PLANNED???
SOMEONE HELP THIS GUY OUT. |
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Originally Posted by largepkg
Start the Nolva 2 weeks after your last injection. Run it @ 50mg ED week 1, 40mg ED week 2, then 30, 20, 20.
The deconate will be in your system for a long time which is another reason I'm not a fan of Sus. |
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
HCG
Brand name Pregnyl by Organon |
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Originally Posted by RoosterTX
Well mystery solved.
Here's what happened: day 1-3 you had 120mg of prop and 240 of phenylprop. Then on the fourth day you had nothing, and continued in such a state until you injected again. Then a week later you had 240 of iso and 90 of prop and phenylprop. And a week after that the deconate will start to release. Every injection, for 1ml, you are going to get that 90mg of short acting 1-3 days, 60mg of mid-range esters a week to release, and 100mg of longer acting esters 2-3 weeks to release. If I had to guess I bet you felt pretty reved up for the first three days after, for some reason, injection 1000mg at once. Then you crashed hard. This seems to explain your low sex drive. You put in just enough test to suppress endogenous production and then waited, 7 days before putting in minimal amounts of short acting test. My suggestion, and I am by no means an expert, start shooting 1/2ml every other day. If you can get your hands on HCG do it and shoot 500iu every 5 weeks until two weeks after your last sus injection. If I could be so bold: What made you think shooting 1000mg of sus at once was a good idea? |
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
he has this stuff in 5000 iu's and 1500 so those are in one amp exactly how many amps will i need ????
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Originally Posted by abomb555
eat more and SLEEP more bro!
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Originally Posted by largepkg
If you were able to start the HCG today you'll need 7,000iu's. That is 500iu's every 5 days for the next 10 weeks. This will take you 2 weeks past your last injection. This is what most would suggest. Start PCT at this point.
Also, I would start your EOD pinning now. |
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
so would i still need the nolvadex if i start running the hcg im not gonna have the hcg for another 2-3 weeks shipping is slow..
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Originally Posted by largepkg
Dude seriously?!?
This is why we try to get you guys to do your research prior to making this leap! YES, you need the nolva! Run the HCG 2 weeks past your last Sus pin then start the nolva. |
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Originally Posted by cr250cra1
I have been eod pinning a while now 1/2 ml and i have not seen any good results i have started to get fat from all the calories i put down that also makes me lazy in the gym i feel like crap my workouts are horrible im not really that much stronger i started to get acne on my chest and shoulders and my stomach is messed up i have gas and i cant shit solid sustanon 250 sucks to say the least..
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