OTC Pro Hormone/Steroid chart [Forum Archive]

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OTC Pro Hormone/Steroid chart

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Posted by: lucifuge

Thanks to Ziquor, a Competitive Edge Labs Rep on Anabolicminds for allowing us to post this.
DG

came across this on another site, figured it could be helpful to some folks

Nomenclature/Chemical naming info:

For reference:

etioallocholan = 5a-androst = 'a skeleton' or 'a isomer'

etiocholan = 5b-androst = 'b skeleton' or 'b isomer'

17beta-hydroxy = 17b-ol

estra = 19-norandrost

1-AD (1-androstenedione) 1-androstene-3b,17b-dione or androst-1-ene-3b,17b-dione

1-AD (1-androstenediol) 1-androstene-3b,17b-diol or androst-1-ene-3b,17b-diol

4-AD (4-androstenedione) 4-androstene-3b,17b-dione or androst-4-ene-3b,17b-dione

4-AD (4-androstenediol) 4-androstene-3b,17b-diol or androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

1,4AD (Boldione) 1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-dione or androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-dione

M1,4AD (Dianadiol) 17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-diol or 17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol

19-Tren X (Pro-Dienolone) 19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3b,17b-dione or estra-4,9-diene-3b,17b-dione

Max LMG 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one

Orastan-A (Furazabol THP) 5a-androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether

Orastan-E (Stanozol THP) [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol

Halodrol-50 (Turinadiol) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol

Promagnon-25 (Methyl-Clostediol) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

Propadrol 12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene-17 6-17 dihydroxyetiocholove-3-ol proponate

11-OXO (Adrenosterone) 4-androstene-3,11,17-trione or 11-oxo-androstenedione

Methoxy-TRN 17b-methoxy-trienbolone

Methoxy-TST 17b-methoxy-trienosterone

19-Nor (19-norandrostenediol) 19-nor-4-androsten-3b,17b-diol or 19-norandrost-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

5AA (5-alpha-androstanediol) 5a-androstane-3b,17b-diol

M5AA (Mestanolone) 17a-methyl-5a-androstanediol

3-Alpha (3-alpha-androstanediol) 5a-androstane-3alpha,17b-diol

M1T (Methyl 1-Test aka 17aa-1-testosterone) 17a-methyl-1-androstene-3-one-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-1-ene-3-one-17b-ol

Superdrol (Methyldrostanolone) 2a,17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one-17b-ol or 2a,17a-dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one-17b-ol

Pheraplex (Madol or DMT) 17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-2-ene-17b-ol

Ergomax LMG (Ergo Matrix) 17a-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane

Epithio (Havoc or Epistane) 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol or 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol

Methyl-D (Methyl Dienolone) 17a-methyl-19-Norandrosta-4,9(10)-diene-3-one-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-estra-4,9(10)-diene-3-one

M4OHN (Methylhydroxynandrolone) 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-19-norandrost-4-ene-3-one or 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-estra-4-ene-3-one

4OHT (hydroxytestosterone) 4-hydroxy-androst-4-ene-3-one-17b-ol or 4,17-dihydroxy-androst-4-ene-3-one

MDHT (methyl-DHT/mestanolone) 17a-methyl-5a-androstane-3-one

Below is information such as estimated half life and A:A ratio's on certain compounds. I'll update more as I find further info as much of it is compiled from original manufacturer claims and as such this should be used for reference purposes only. If anyone sees anything they can add or change please let me know.

Anabolic to Androgenic ratio's based on original manufacture claims and Vida info. Note many other unseen factors come into play that aren't apparent in the ratio's such as progesterone activity, and how 'strongly' a compound binds to the androgen receptors. For example Masteron has a relatively low A:A ratio and a pretty low androgenic # of about 25 but it binds very strongly and/or with high affinity compared to other compounds. Q-Factor is the anabolic # divided by androgenic #. Some anabolics are listed with a 'range' for the most accurate possible estimate. Methyl Testosterone is the oral of which all other orals are compared, just as IM Test is to other injectibles:

Posted by: jwalk127

alot of great info. that can answer alot of questions for people.

Posted by: lucifuge

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalk127

alot of great info. that can answer alot of questions for people.

Thats pretty much what I was thinking... now we just have to figure out a way to get them to actually read it. lol

Posted by: ZECH

Stickied!

Posted by: KelJu

Holy shit! What a great find. I would love to know who composed this list and thank them, but I bet they wouldn't want to be found.

Posted by: ZECH

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelJu

Holy shit! What a great find. I would love to know who composed this list and thank them, but I bet they wouldn't want to be found.

It came from Ziquor, a Competitive Edge Labs Rep on anabolicminds.

Posted by: KelJu

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

It came from Ziquor, a Competitive Edge Labs Rep on anabolicminds.

I'm a member there, but I haven't posted in a while.

Posted by: Ziquor

Hey great chart

j/k I'm looking forward to spending some more time here, great resource

Posted by: ZECH

Great to have you here Ziquor. Hope you will spend some more time around here. Always good to have another CEL rep here also!

Posted by: Cgrant

wow.. awesome chart.. made sense and a MUST read for newbies looking to learn ANYTHING.. great post

Posted by: quark

Good stuff! Thanks for posting!

Posted by: seems

Good one. Thanks and keep updating.

Posted by: Ty_Durden

Can anyone tell me the key differences between injectable anabolics and oral anabolics? Are oral anabolics as potent as injectables?

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty_Durden

Can anyone tell me the key differences between injectable anabolics and oral anabolics? Are oral anabolics as potent as injectables?

My cursory understanding is as follows: liver toxicity. Orals have to survive digestion, so they're "alkylated", wherein an alkyl group (methyl or alkyl) is added to the alpha position of the 17 carbon skeleton of the steroid. Your liver breaks that part off - which is good, since that's what has to happen for your body to use the active, but bad, because your liver now has to deal with the hepatoxic alkyl group.

You can surely get just as "strong" an effect from an oral, but if you're a guy, you'll have to take so much, you'll be at risk of liver damage: men are already men. You need to take enough to shut down your boys and THEN some.

Females have no boys to shut down, and the doses women take are so small that liver toxicity isn't such a concern.

For reference, a woman may take 2.5-12.5mg oxandrolone (Anavar) for a cycle. A man would likely need 40+mg daily for any kind of effect, and even then he'll likely stack it with something like test.

I'm sure somebody far more schooled in these things than I will come in with something more helpful. My understanding of AAS pharmacodynamics is limited at best.

Posted by: CellWarrior

Thats the best info I have every came across for these. Whats next SERMS...?

Posted by: Roaddkingg

That is some great information. I spent a lot of time last night reading about all the differant pro-hormones available. Couldnt believe how many there are. I know this may be very hard but if just one company could be listed and the best from that company. What would it be. For least sides, decent gains, low water retention. Goal being strength, size and definition.

Posted by: lola1182

good info, great read.. thanks!

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roaddkingg

That is some great information. I spent a lot of time last night reading about all the differant pro-hormones available. Couldnt believe how many there are. I know this may be very hard but if just one company could be listed and the best from that company. What would it be. For least sides, decent gains, low water retention. Goal being strength, size and definition.

Gee, wait. So you want to be bigger AND stronger AND more defined, is that all?

Sounds easy enough…

Posted by: mauricio24ny

any help with avanar i just got it and i dont know anything about how to cycle it what to take with it my friend told me to take it everyday for 6 weeks and take testosterone boost with it then get something for my liver also some superpump 250 then i will be good to go i just want to know if this is true any help help with be well appreciated i just want to do it right thanks again for taking the time and read this

Posted by: tatteredsaint

excellent post on the chart that will save me a lot of typing

Posted by: abomb555

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifuge

Thanks to Ziquor, a Competitive Edge Labs Rep on Anabolicminds for allowing us to post this.
DG

came across this on another site, figured it could be helpful to some folks

Nomenclature/Chemical naming info:

For reference:

etioallocholan = 5a-androst = 'a skeleton' or 'a isomer'

etiocholan = 5b-androst = 'b skeleton' or 'b isomer'

17beta-hydroxy = 17b-ol

estra = 19-norandrost

1-AD (1-androstenedione) 1-androstene-3b,17b-dione or androst-1-ene-3b,17b-dione

1-AD (1-androstenediol) 1-androstene-3b,17b-diol or androst-1-ene-3b,17b-diol

4-AD (4-androstenedione) 4-androstene-3b,17b-dione or androst-4-ene-3b,17b-dione

4-AD (4-androstenediol) 4-androstene-3b,17b-diol or androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

1,4AD (Boldione) 1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-dione or androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-dione

M1,4AD (Dianadiol) 17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-diol or 17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol

19-Tren X (Pro-Dienolone) 19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3b,17b-dione or estra-4,9-diene-3b,17b-dione

Max LMG 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one

Orastan-A (Furazabol THP) 5a-androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether

Orastan-E (Stanozol THP) [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol

Halodrol-50 (Turinadiol) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol

Promagnon-25 (Methyl-Clostediol) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

Propadrol 12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene-17 6-17 dihydroxyetiocholove-3-ol proponate

11-OXO (Adrenosterone) 4-androstene-3,11,17-trione or 11-oxo-androstenedione

Methoxy-TRN 17b-methoxy-trienbolone

Methoxy-TST 17b-methoxy-trienosterone

19-Nor (19-norandrostenediol) 19-nor-4-androsten-3b,17b-diol or 19-norandrost-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

5AA (5-alpha-androstanediol) 5a-androstane-3b,17b-diol

M5AA (Mestanolone) 17a-methyl-5a-androstanediol

3-Alpha (3-alpha-androstanediol) 5a-androstane-3alpha,17b-diol

M1T (Methyl 1-Test aka 17aa-1-testosterone) 17a-methyl-1-androstene-3-one-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-1-ene-3-one-17b-ol

Superdrol (Methyldrostanolone) 2a,17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one-17b-ol or 2a,17a-dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one-17b-ol

Pheraplex (Madol or DMT) 17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-2-ene-17b-ol

Ergomax LMG (Ergo Matrix) 17a-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane

Epithio (Havoc or Epistane) 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol or 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol

Methyl-D (Methyl Dienolone) 17a-methyl-19-Norandrosta-4,9(10)-diene-3-one-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-estra-4,9(10)-diene-3-one

M4OHN (Methylhydroxynandrolone) 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-19-norandrost-4-ene-3-one or 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-estra-4-ene-3-one

4OHT (hydroxytestosterone) 4-hydroxy-androst-4-ene-3-one-17b-ol or 4,17-dihydroxy-androst-4-ene-3-one

MDHT (methyl-DHT/mestanolone) 17a-methyl-5a-androstane-3-one

beastdrol

Posted by: egodog48

Quality post! Lots of common questions answered

Posted by: crazy_enough

wow, what a GREAT post!

Posted by: JonPiven

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy_enough

wow, what a GREAT post!

+1 answered few of my questions

Posted by: Mags

I know this is an old thread, but it's still a highly relevant one. I often come back here to check information. However, something's happened to the chart - is there anyway it can brought back? Hope so as it provided a lot of useful stuff.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Built

I'm working on it.

Please stand by...

Posted by: Built

here's the first five...

Posted by: Built

and the last one.

Posted by: Built

There you go. I uploaded them directly onto IMF, and then fixed the hyperlinks in the original post.

Posted by: Mags

Nice one - thanks a lot.

Posted by: Built

You're welcome.

Next time you see dead photobucket links, you can almost always open them directly if you copy and paste the URL into your browser. That's what I did - then saved the images as jpgs and uploaded them onto the forum.

Posted by: juggernaut

problem with the PHs is that they are being banned making them harder to find and this will also lead to AAS usage amonst younger people who have business using either in the first place.

Posted by: aja44

Looking for a bit of help putting together my next OTC PH cycle. My first cycle consisted of:
4 weeks @ 6 tabs 1-Andro RX along with 6 tabs of Anabolic Matrix. (completed)
4 weeks @ 6 tabs Anabolic Matrix with 6 tabs of Novadex XT (2 weeks down)

I experienced great gains in strength, but not really in size. I also saw very little in weight loss and my body fat went down very little.

From what I have read, 1-Andro RX is considered to be the best PH on the market. I would like to give it a second chance and look to start another cycle in February which would be about 8 weeks off . Can someone recommend a cycle and PCT? I have read that stacking 1-Andro and 4-AD are recommended. I also had someone at the gym recommend Slim Extreme for fat loss. Any help would be appreciated.

Posted by: juggernaut

HDrol is a good "starter" and has virtually no sides to it. STAY AWAY from MDrol. It is liver toxic with a propensity to give you gyno. The tradeoff with PHs, is that harsher PHs will give you better results. I did both HDrol and MDrol and will never touch MDrol again. It killed my liver, but gave great gains.

Use the search function and give me an idea of how you want to use HDrol, if you decide to use it.

Posted by: aja44

Thanks for the reply Juggernaut. Are you recommending stacking HDrol with 1-Andro RX? I have read some good results on HDrol, but read and hear that 1-Androl is much stronger.

I dont know that many people in my gym, only been here for about 5 months, so anything I buy I would need to have shipped. I live in NY and although I would love to get the real thing, not interested in legal issues. Can you recommend a stack, PCT and quantities? Thanks,

Posted by: Silver_Back

Mdrol killed your Liver? Does this mean i'll need a new one after 30mgs ED?

Posted by: N_I_C_K

Holy shit. I wish I knew what any of that meant......How does everyone understand all this?

Posted by: juggernaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saney

Mdrol killed your Liver? Does this mean i'll need a new one after 30mgs ED?

I dont know if you're being a smartass so I'll just go ahead and answer for the uniformed, I said I felt the side effects of the mdrol, One of those is that it is a methylated steroid and as such, plays havoc on the liver. Side supports are needed so that the liver can function well. Taurine at 5g a day also helps. I will never use mdrol again, because even though I liked the gains, the sides made it a complete turnoff for me. Test is a much better option, provided you get what you pay for and as long as you know what you're doing-research the hell out of it, you;'ll get better quality gains.

Posted by: juggernaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja44

Thanks for the reply Juggernaut. Are you recommending stacking HDrol with 1-Andro RX? I have read some good results on HDrol, but read and hear that 1-Androl is much stronger.

I dont know that many people in my gym, only been here for about 5 months, so anything I buy I would need to have shipped. I live in NY and although I would love to get the real thing, not interested in legal issues. Can you recommend a stack, PCT and quantities? Thanks,

I would try Andro RX by itself first. Take some time off after, adjust and then go with hdrol. What's the rush?

Posted by: Silver_Back

Juggs, is "The ONE" any good?

Posted by: juggernaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saney

Juggs, is "The ONE" any good?

I did a quick google on the 17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol-3-hydroxyimine; it apparently has no estrogenic side effects, seems like a decent purchase...I'd say depending on your goals it might be worthwhile. go for it. Still, I like HDrol better for PH gains without side effects.

Posted by: juggernaut

HDrol with Tren works well too. I did that one back in 2002, and liked the cycle.

Posted by: needtogetaas

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

HDrol with Tren works well too. I did that one back in 2002, and liked the cycle.

Hdrol being more of a pro hormone then a otc steroid though... It is a good compound and pretty under rated. Most pro hormones or otc steroids are ether under rated or under respected for the most part.

Personally I have 0 sides with superdrol other then a little bit of lethargy and some times some bacne. Everyone is different but superdrol is still one of the more harsh otc steroids on the list.

Some one had said that that is the trade of with pro homrones and otc steroids in this thread. IMO the same thing applies for any steroid when you think about it. The more powerful a steroid is the harsher it can be on some part of the system be it injected or taken oral.

Trans dermal is always a nice option though

provided the compound as a small enough molecular weight.

BTW great info in this thread, I have been a big fan of the otc compounds for a long time now. Anything we can do to stick it to the man ( if only for a wile) is a plus in my book.

Posted by: mrrvau

great info thanks

Posted by: MDR

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Mdrol just makes me feel tired and lousy in general. Really tough to get through four weeks and remain productive with the sides. Gains are great, but I feel like crap. Very toxic stuff.

Posted by: 240PLUS

OOOKKKKK....so which ones are legal and which ones are not??? No smart ass answers please. I want some soon.

Posted by: bigred123

Does anyone know how long it takes for 1-AD to be clear out of your system and be none detectable in a urine test ?

Posted by: Good Grip

Ah, this thread brings back memories for me. So the dust has settled and we still have some left ( Prohormones ) standing, but im really looking forward to the future- The Androseries Project from Primordial Performance, 100% dshea compliant.

Posted by: HereToStudy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good Grip

Ah, this thread brings back memories for me. So the dust has settled and we still have some left ( Prohormones ) standing, but im really looking forward to the future- The Androseries Project from Primordial Performance, 100% dshea compliant.

Patiently awaiting the arrival

I got a pretty long AndroMass cycle planned out

Posted by: Good Grip

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereToStudy

Patiently awaiting the arrival

I got a pretty long AndroMass cycle planned out

Nice bro. Im stuck because I have too many options. Ive got plenty of the "old line" left, and I want to combine them with the new Androseries line.

Posted by: Pain

This will definitely make purchases easier to determine in the For sale Section! I appreciate your work. I printed them out for ease of use.
Thanks agqain
Pain-Is weakness leaving your mind and body

Posted by: TGB1987

Great read. Glad to be apart of such a great forum

Posted by: SFW

this could use some updating.

Posted by: jersey2180

Hello,
I have been trying to purchase Anavar substance but somehow all of the sites that i have ben to do not seem authentic. I visited Daddyroids and it seemed pretty legit but as I searched for review they seemed to not be. Does anyone know where I may purchase authentic substance and free from scams?
I would appreiate the help.

Posted by: Pain

Your putting this together has made understanding the chemical formulas a lot easier to memorize or keep in the Palm Pilot or Phone when out and about this makes making the correct purchase a breeze when at auctions and other like outlets.

I need just the right supps to keep this well weathered ole' warrior jammin and slammin

Pain

Posted by: jus4u

Excellent information....wished 1-AD was still avaliable

Posted by: Nightowl

Great tat by the way.

Can we have a class on 17? I was told by a chemist that graduated from Berkeley, that 17 because of the molecular structure is the bad part. Can someone elaborate on 17?!?

thanx

Posted by: Winny_ng 24/7

We need a thread like this about OTC PCT.

Posted by: HereToStudy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winny_ng 24/7

We need a thread like this about OTC PCT.

Check out the Testosterone Recovery Stack. I personally recommend a SERM for many cycles, but some of the lighter ones can certainly use the TRS.

Posted by: Winny_ng 24/7

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereToStudy

Check out the Testosterone Recovery Stack. I personally recommend a SERM for many cycles, but some of the lighter ones can certainly use the TRS.

I'm glad companies are making progress with OTC PCT. But for a 115$ I could get a whole lot more nolvadex and clomid. I hope to see more products like these just cheaper.

Posted by: Silver_Back

for 115$ I could get about 70mls of Test Prop 100 delivered to me in less than a week..

Knowing that, who the fuck would buy Placebos?

Posted by: Justinbro

Has anyone seen an effectiveness chart with prohormones/prosterioids in it? I've been seeing some posts that PPlex is better than dbol. Would just love to see how they compare with old stand bys.

Posted by: SFW

Quote:

Has anyone seen an effectiveness chart with prohormones/prosterioids in it? I've been seeing some posts that PPlex is better than dbol. Would just love to see how they compare with old stand bys.

define better? ^

Whats on the charts doesnt always equate to real world results. both are good actually and very similar but pplex giving slightly less of a bloated look

Posted by: Justinbro

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFW

define better? ^

Whats on the charts doesnt always equate to real world results. both are good actually and very similar but pplex giving slightly less of a bloated look

Not the ratio chart, the real world effectiveness chart that gives Adrol and Suspension a 10 for strength. Good to hear on the PPlex. I noticed it doesnt aromatize and have seen it on ebay so its been on my mind. I know the crazy anabolic ratio doesnt mean much like with cheque drops and halotestin so yeah real world reviews is what I'm after.

Posted by: SFW

well, since they stopped making madol otc, you being able to find a fresh batch is unlikely. Most of that stuff is circa 2008 and probably stored improperly. Better off with some ugl dbol for a kickstart.

Posted by: xaxis1969

Great information!

Posted by: Justinbro

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFW

well, since they stopped making madol otc, you being able to find a fresh batch is unlikely. Most of that stuff is circa 2008 and probably stored improperly. Better off with some ugl dbol for a kickstart.

Madol isnt a prohormone, it's desoxymethyltestosterone, a nonaromatizing test thats 12 times more anabolic than oil test and my PPlex right now isnt expired. Pumps and euphoria like dbol and agression and strength like halo, love it.

Posted by: Silver_Back

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justinbro

Dayum!!!

Looks like he told you SFW.... What you gonna do about that?

Posted by: TriumphTt600

Good chart. Thanks

Posted by: oufinny

I read this and there are so many on there I want to take and they are all gone... arghh!!!!!! Fucking govt always has to mess with the fun.

Posted by: Justinbro

Quote:

Originally Posted by oufinny

I read this and there are so many on there I want to take and they are all gone... arghh!!!!!! Fucking govt always has to mess with the fun.

PPlex is always on ebay or the buy sell trade threads

Posted by: r0ck0

Great thread. Have some studying to do now. Thanks for the post.

Posted by: eskimoexpress

too bad most of those products are "discontinued" now...

Posted by: boyd.357

^Yea and superdrol is the next one to be banned. THAT SUCKS!!!

Posted by: PappyMason

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Back

for 115$ I could get about 70mls of Test Prop 100 delivered to me in less than a week..

Knowing that, who the fuck would buy Placebos?

wow thats pretty cheap. i have yet to see any sponsor with that kind of price tho

(CLICK HERE here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

OTC Pro Hormone/Steroid chart

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