Starting first cyle...need some advice! [Forum Archive]

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Starting first cyle...need some advice!

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Posted by: rebelroy11

I'm currently 6'2" and about 155lbs. I don't look as bad as it may seem. I'm fed up with my size and being a hard gainer, so this weekend a friend is hooking me up. He suggested that I stack deca durabolin with a testostorone. My main question is which testosterone do I use? I'm sure he has a good suggestion but I'd like to hear from others. He also said that I should use Nolva for PCT. If so, how long do I use it and if I decide I don't want to do a second cyle of ANYTHING, what is a safe way to just stop? I'm looking to really to just bulk up for now. I'm 25 and for some reason when I hit 21 I lost weight and have not been able to get it back. For those of you that my suggest me not doing what I'm about to do...I've already made up my mind and I appreciate your comments anyway. I've also read a little about ergopharms 6-oxo being used for PCT and on it's own. Anyone know much about that? I want to do a 8-10 week cycle and would like to put on AT LEAST 20 lbs. Any dosage recommendations? Is that possible if I work my ass off? THanks!

Posted by: data210

What's your maintenance caloric intake, and what is your actual intake?

Posted by: rebelroy11

Well, that's the thing. I do good for a few months and do gain some weight, I also keep track of calories, protein, etc. But I usually get frustrated after eating the samethings over and over and over and over and over...see what I mean. Then i just fall out of it. So right Now I can't really answer that question because I'm getting back into. This time I do have less distractions and more time to be able to stick with everything. But at one time I was trying to consume at least 3,000 calories a day, on average, but I would kind of fall short here and there due to a busy life. Not so busy anymore so I'm ready. How many calories do you suggest?

Posted by: quark

You are going to do this anyway but here's my 2 centavos. Tell your buddy he's an idiot for suggesting steroids to you. Then get your diet and training in order. You are not ready for a cycle of steroids. With the questions you are asking you are going to hurt yourself. I'm not trying to be a *ick but that is reality my friend. Best of luck.

Posted by: rebelroy11

Ok, jchappj... let's say youre right, and you probably are. I understand most people don't go that route until they hit a wall, but I know my body. You may not know what it's like to be over 6ft and under weight, then again you might but I can tell you right now it is not fun and completely kills your confidence. I have hundreds of dollars worth of clothes in my closet that I dont wear anymore because I lost about 15lbs after I had lung surgery a couple years ago and have not been able to gain it back, and everytime I put on a shirt it's completely depressing to watch it hang off of me like some sort of poncho of something. Alot of my problems other than being a hard gainer is genetics. My father is 6'4" and now at 50 years old has finally gotten over 200 lbs. He's about 210-215 now. I've had alot of tests done to see if maybe I had some kind of medical problem and everything checked out fine, doc just said that I had a really high metabolism. I eat and eat until I cant even stand the sight of food. Not to the point of over eating but a hell of alot. What would I have to accomplish to be ready? I just need to put on some weight, I dont care if it's all fat. At least it's a start.

Posted by: quark

There are many folks on here that are way more experienced than I am but I am certain they would agree that you need to start with diet and training. Instead of investing the research time and money on steroids invest those in training, diet, and food. Read the stickies in the Training and Diet & Nutrition forums. I never believed I would start to gain weight as I am an ecto myself but consistency pays off. You have to EAT, and eat correctly. You have to train hard and (very important!) train correctly.

Posted by: MCx2

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebelroy11

Ok, jchappj... let's say youre right, and you probably are. I understand most people don't go that route until they hit a wall, but I know my body. You may not know what it's like to be over 6ft and under weight, then again you might but I can tell you right now it is not fun and completely kills your confidence. I have hundreds of dollars worth of clothes in my closet that I dont wear anymore because I lost about 15lbs after I had lung surgery a couple years ago and have not been able to gain it back, and everytime I put on a shirt it's completely depressing to watch it hang off of me like some sort of poncho of something. Alot of my problems other than being a hard gainer is genetics. My father is 6'4" and now at 50 years old has finally gotten over 200 lbs. He's about 210-215 now. I've had alot of tests done to see if maybe I had some kind of medical problem and everything checked out fine, doc just said that I had a really high metabolism. I eat and eat until I cant even stand the sight of food. Not to the point of over eating but a hell of alot. What would I have to accomplish to be ready? I just need to put on some weight, I dont care if it's all fat. At least it's a start.

I've been on this board for a few years now and I can't tell you how many times I've read this story. If you aren't gaining weight, you aren't eating enough. Period. Sure, you'll pack on some lbs with steroids, but as soon as you come off, you'll go right back to where you started because it's your diet that's the problem.

Posted by: biggfly

155 lbs and you're going to cycle...holy s*#t. Not smart.

Posted by: rebelroy11

You guys are slowly starting to change my mind...lol. Just for general knowledge, me being 155lbs, you say it's not smart. Why? What are the dangers because of my size?

Posted by: largepkg

Being 155lbs is not a danger. It's the fact that you think by taking steroids it's going to fix your weight problem.

Fact is, if you can't gain weight without steroids you won't with them either. Prove to yourself that you can put some lbs on without juice first, then we can discuss other options.

Posted by: rebelroy11

Ok, I'll take your advice. What are some good supplements? Or do I need to go on a different forum? lol I've used creatine, weight gainers, whey protein and whatever else, but have been confused by the whole marketing thing. You see on the shelf four different brands with the same stuff, same size, but...four different prices? Some being $30 more than the cheapest. Is there a difference in quality?

Posted by: quark

Staples are a good multi vitamin and whey protein. I also add fishoil and creatine. But again, don't get hung up on supplements. Invest in good food.

Posted by: kicka19

good for you for actually listening to advice instead of just jumping in, truth if i u use gas u will blow up, but with a piss poor diet u wont keep a lb of it after and you will look foolish. learn to eat and then gas ull be good

Posted by: largepkg

First thing is to comprehensively break down your diet and macros. Understanding what your maintenance caloric intake is then adjust upward from there. It really is that simple when trying to gain weight.

Make sure to increase in 300-500 calorie per day intervals and note the results. Once you find a comfortable caloric intake you'll be on your way.

Considering you been a "hard gainer", I call it a reluctant or uninformed gainer (no disrespect here) you might find it hard to consume the required calories to gain but if that's your goal you'll need to do it.

As JC stated start with a good multi and whey. You could always incorporate creatine if you'd like as well.

Good luck

Posted by: rebelroy11

Gotcha! Thanks!

Posted by: crazy_enough

wise decision!!!

Posted by: chronicelite

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebelroy11

Gotcha! Thanks!

Take in 1.5g of protein per pound of Lean Body Mass

Keep your calories high, but if you notice you are gaining too much fat, you can lower the calories a bit. Make sure you keep very close watch to your calories and you will notice certain amounts make you gain weight! It's not rocket science dude, and steroids is a huge mistake at this point in time. You can definitely gain weight quickly and easily by just eating and training. Steroids are for when you can no longer gain naturally, or have hit a serious plateau that just won't budge.

Posted by: Built

I am so glad you're going to get your diet worked out first!

The only thing AAS will do is direct calorie traffic toward muscles. If you're not overeating, they don't have magical mass-adding properties; your muscles are not made out of air.
THERE IS NO DRUG, STEROID OR SUPPLEMENT THAT WILL ADD MASS UNLESS YOU INCREASE YOUR CALORIES. Consult the first law of thermodynamics for more on this.

FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

Enter everything you put in your mouth for the next three days. Post up the average macronutrients and we'll tell you what to increase.

Okay?

Posted by: Gazhole

Congratulations for proving there are some new members who are rational human beings without giant egos.

Prepare for results!

Posted by: Knackerbags

Hey mate just my 2 cents but i'm an ectomorph as well, 6'2 long arms and legs and gaining muscle is tough as all hell and losing it comes quick if fall off the band wagon with diet or training and i've been training like 6 years... got sick of the hard gains and seein mates train and put on muscle like pros, so i geared up and hey i put on muscle and strength went through the roof but after all that i couldnt maintain it and mentally i was in a worse position after the cycle... losing the strength that i'd always wanted destroyed me abit and i can see same happening to you, and i'm not sayin dont juice cos fuck it its your body and shit i've cycled since then but you, i and all the others like us have gotta deal with the fact we cant gain like others so dont jump on the gear just to solve one problem cos then you'll end up with more problems.

Posted by: TexanTA1996

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

The only thing AAS will do is direct calorie traffic toward muscles.

Well put.

Posted by: livinlarge

i have a friend that the same way i put him on the dream diet eat anything he started eating mcdon. and everything elese while working out and he put on 16lb in about 3 weeks so dont gear up yet just eat what ever and train and you will get bigger just eat eat eat like said a cal. is a cal. your body dont care where it comes from eat ice cream, mcdon., wendeys, candybars just dont go hog wild but you can do it and no cardio just a couple times a week to keep heart in shape but you do that and you will gain

Posted by: QuestionGuy

I havn't read all the posts from others but im going to assume that all the others are going to agree with me....DO NOT use roids just yet becasue it is clear that you did not do much research on them just yet (but good place to start).....EAT EAT EAT, all the people are whinning about being bad gainers but they are just inpatient, you need to eat a shit load of food and lift heavy and slowly but surely you will start gaining, then after 20 pounds and lots of research try a cycle.............Im jelous of all you guys who can just go out and get a cycle, Steroids really need to be legalised!!!

Posted by: livinlarge

i wish they where legal i have a cabnit full lol. but ya you need to eat alot and like he said lift as heavey as you can

Posted by: data210

So I fell off this post awhile ago, and it is time to jump back on! haha

I'm glad you are rethinking the AAS route. The diet is really key, its more important than lifting, or any supplement. You don't necessarily have to eat the same foods every day though. Change it up. Eggs and some good 15 grain toast and veggie juice one day, the next you could have some ground beef and noodles or something. Get creative with it.

I wouldn't bother taking anything unless you get your macros and meal plan dialed, it would just be a waste of money. Post your diet plan here or in the other forum, myself or other people would be glad to help you out.

One thing I would personally recommend is taking gainer shakes. Don't buy the premade ones in the tubs, make your own!. 2 scoops Whey, 6 TBSP whipping cream, 6 or 7 ounces water, frozen blueberries or strawberries. Take 2 of those a day, and that is roughly 1400 Kcals you don't need to eat!

P.S. I wouldn't go on that Mcdonalds diet, sure its high in kcal, and you'll gain weight but it will be a good amount of fat with the muscle. Your body DOES know the difference of good kcal and bad kcal. If a car requires premium gas and you put in regular, what do you think will happen?

Posted by: Hench

Quote:

Originally Posted by data210

Your body DOES know the difference of good kcal and bad kcal. If a car requires premium gas and you put in regular, what do you think will happen?

Off topic, but just wanted to check if this is correct. Now I may be wrong, but i dont think there is such a thing as good kcals and bad kcals. A calorie is a calorie, e.g. the makeup of those 500kcals can be varied - protein, carbs, type of fat ect... but as i said a think a calorie is a calorie?!?

But agree with the rest of your post, this guy does no where near ready to hit the juice.

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by data210

If a car requires premium gas and you put in regular, what do you think will happen?

Depends how much you put in...

Posted by: livinlarge

moondogg you are right about that a cal is a cal no matter where it comes from but you still have to watch what elese is in it you dont want all the bad stuff in it to so you still have to be carefull and you dont want to over do it but yes a cal is a cal no matter what and your body see it that way a micky ds hambuger is the same cal as a mass gainer cal but the diff is the fats and bad cholesteral in it so not saying to eat bad and micky D's is the same as a protin shake but the body see that cal as the same ok hope dont get pounded for this but ok

Posted by: largepkg

A little punctuation please!

Damn, now my head hurts.

Posted by: data210

Think about how your body is going to respond to the food. Do you think that the calories from a big mac with fries will give you the same nutritional benefits of 8 ounces of steak, sweet potato, and steamed broccoli? Your body will not function at its peak performance with poor diet, even though your eating an amount of calories to trigger weight gain.

I mean "bad calories" by highly processed foods. The white hamburger bun has had many of the nutrients stripped out of it. The beef patty is horrible quality meat, and the sauces are filled with preservatives and high fructose corn syrup. Thats just skimming the surface.

Posted by: Built

I don't know how they're made in the US, but in Canada, McDonald's hamburgers are made from 100% pure beef, seasoned with salt and pepper.

White flour isn't Teh Devil - post workout, refined carbohydrates are just fine.

Sauces made with high fructose corn syrup - well, let's examine the sugar profile of high fructose corn syrup: fructose and glucose. This is virtually identical to ordinary table sugar, or the sugar profile of most of the fruits we eat for example. A little bit in your teriyaki sauce isn't gonna make you any fatter than a chunk of apple is going to make you fat.

Now I'm not suggesting you eat an "all junk food, all the time" diet. This stuff is high in calories, flat out. The fries, which used to be fried in natural animal shortening - are now fried in transfats, sadly. This isn't good under any circumstances, for anyone.

But if you're a skinny 18-year-old guy on a bulk, you feed yourself nourishing food, plenty of fruits and veggies, natural fats, plenty of protein etc there are far worse things you can put in your body than the occasional McDonald's hamburger!

Posted by: data210

None of the fast food is the devil, but if he really wants to get good gains and be healthy why would he waste his money on fast food? Why not do it right the first time with a clean bulk so he has to cut less fat, and won't be at risk for health issues from processed foods?

White bread isn't the worst thing ever invented, but why would you eat that when there's more healthy 15 grain you can consume? Why eat a patty of cow armpits and assholes when you can go get some steak tips or chicken from a butcher?

To each their own though. In my opinion, if I'm dedicated myself while I'm in the gym, I also dedicate myself out of the gym. I'm not saying NEVER eat fast food if you like it, just don't go on a "mcdonalds diet"

Posted by: Built

Quote:

Originally Posted by data210

None of the fast food is the devil, but if he really wants to get good gains and be healthy why would he waste his money on fast food? Why not do it right the first time with a clean bulk so he has to cut less fat, and won't be at risk for health issues from processed foods?

You want to explain to me how the individual food choices impact upon how much fat is gained during a bulk? 'Cause I always thought it was the calories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by data210

White bread isn't the worst thing ever invented, but why would you eat that when there's more healthy 15 grain you can consume?

Because sometimes you actually want a fast carb. Hell, I don't even eat grain - to me, there's no such thing as a healthy 15 grain bread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by data210

Why eat a patty of cow armpits and assholes when you can go get some steak tips or chicken from a butcher?

You're assuming the protein in the rest of the cow isn't good quality protein, is that it? I grew up eating all sorts of off-cuts of meat: thymus gland, brains, liver, kidney, gizzard, lung, stomach, intestine... my mom's a good cook and she grew up on a farm - she always made stuff taste good. There's lots of nourishment in some of these off-cuts. Besides, we're talking about 100% ground beef here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by data210

To each their own though. In my opinion, if I'm dedicated myself while I'm in the gym, I also dedicate myself out of the gym. I'm not saying NEVER eat fast food if you like it, just don't go on a "mcdonalds diet"

I don't think anyone here was suggesting the OP eat nothing but McDonald's food. But to a well-nourished hard-gainer on a bulk, a shake and a greasy cheeseburger may be the best dietary supplement out there.

Posted by: data210

No, I'm saying that fast food restaurants use poor quality meat, unhealthy oils for frying, sauces with processed sugars and preservatives, and highly processed breads with many of the nutrients stripped out. Often your consuming some fecal matter along with the meat, because they don't take much care when they slaughter and package.

If he just HAS TO GAIN WEIGHT, with no worry of health issues, or fueling himself with proper nutrients, go ahead and eat Mcdonalds. I don't know anyone that actually feels good after they eat that type of food. I'm not trying to change your mind, but in my opinion, studies, and education, fast food should not be consumed when there are so many other nutrient dense foods you can eat instead.

Posted by: Built

I guarantee you, unless you're slaughtering your own meat, grinding your own peanut butter and making all your own food from scratch, you're getting fecal matter, mouse droppings, and rat hairs in your food.

Mmmm... rat hairs...

Posted by: biggfly

Sometimes I feel great after a double cheeseburger...come on. Meats from slaughter houses can go all different directions, the ground beef may go to McD's, but the ribeyes and Prime rib may go to Outback or Applebee's...you saying you don't eat meat at these places either??!

Posted by: data210

I know anything can find its way into our food, I used to work in a restaurant. I'm saying that I keep processed foods out of my diet the best I can. And one of the categories I keep out is fast food. I'm simply stating that in MY OPINION fast food is garbage, and I choose not to put those things into my body. I don't think I'm out of line by saying a home grilled steak, baked sweet potato, and steamed broccoli is healthier than a bigmac, fries, and a coke. If you do, thats your opinion. Whatever works.

Posted by: Hench

Quote:

Originally Posted by data210

Think about how your body is going to respond to the food. Do you think that the calories from a big mac with fries will give you the same nutritional benefits of 8 ounces of steak, sweet potato, and steamed broccoli? Your body will not function at its peak performance with poor diet, even though your eating an amount of calories to trigger weight gain.

I mean "bad calories" by highly processed foods. The white hamburger bun has had many of the nutrients stripped out of it. The beef patty is horrible quality meat, and the sauces are filled with preservatives and high fructose corn syrup. Thats just skimming the surface.

I agree, but that wasnt the point I was making.

You can eat food like McD's as long as the rest of your diet is on point, and you still hit your macros.

Posted by: data210

I understand, and agree. If someone is solely concerned with weight gain, Mcd's would work as a calorie supplement. I just figured if he was going to spend the money on gear, why not spend it on nutritious wholesome foods that are healthier?

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Starting first cyle...need some advice!

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