Critique My Cut Routine [Forum Archive]

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Critique My Cut Routine

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Posted by: kyoun1e

Some of you helped me make the decision to cut. Thanks. Coming off german volume training, I'm looking get started on this routine starting today.

Here's my initial thought:

Day 1 -- Push Pull Horizontal

* Flat Barbell bench 5 x 5
* Seated cable row or bent over rows 5 x 5
* Incline DB bench 5 x 5
* Weighted dips 5 x 5
* DB flies isolation: 3 x 8
* Mop up with some abs

Day 2 -- Legs, Abs, Bis, Tris

* Squat 5 x 5
* Leg Press 5 x 5
* Weighted lunges 3 x 8 or curls or calves
* 5 x 5 skullcrushers
* 5 x 5 Press downs
* 5 x 5 bi curls
* 5 x 5 preacher or hammer curls

(Note: Alot in here. Actually thinking arms could have it's own day)

Day 3 -- Vertical push pull

* Weighted pull ups 5 x 5
* DB Shoulder press 5 x 5
* Upright rows or shrugs 3 x 8
* Side laterals 3 x 8
* Lat pulldowns 3 x 8
* Mop up with some abs

How does this look?

One big question -- cardio. I keep hearing mixed ideas here. Some say go long and slow while others say go short and intense. What makes the most sense here?

Thanks.

KY

Posted by: Built

Okay, to begin your cut this is fine, but reduce the volume as you lean out. Go from 5x5 to 4x5 to 3x5, from 3x8 to 2x8 etc. Ditch direct arm work at some point along the way.

WRT cardio, I begin the cut with stuff to build work capacity - hill repeats and interval work - and move toward a few sessions of HIIT/short bursts with as much LISS cardio (read: walking outdoors recreationally, riding my bike recreationally) as I progress, ditching the longer middle-intensity stuff as my bodyfat and calories drop.

Posted by: kyoun1e

Built,

Thanks much.

I just came back from my first push pull session. Damn. Going from GVT to 5 x 5 just kicked my butt. I think I sweat twice as much with greater rest time between sets. Couldn't even deal with flies at the end.

Couple questions:

* What's the rationale for decreasing volume as you lean out?
* On cardio, would "speed interval" work on a stairmaster get it done? And how long / often would you do this work?

Thanks.

KY

Posted by: Built

You reduce training volume so you don't wear yourself out. On a cut, your focus changes from "build muscle through stimulus and extra food" to "prevent muscle from leaving while slowly starving, slightly" - you don't have even enough food to run your whole body, much less build anything. Muscle is a drain on resources; you just need to send a signal to your body that you need to hang onto it. It's risk management.

Read "how to do cardio if you must", halfway down the page: Got Built? » Open Source Fitness - Get started here

Posted by: kyoun1e

Well, I just tried the day 2 split for legs, bis, tris, abs.

Forget it.

Tris had to go and I had originally thought about doing cardio on this day too. Too much.

I don't know about anyone else, but from what I've read, the idea of 5 x 5 or any good routine is to get the hell out of the gym in 45-60 minutes. With this split, impossible.

4 exercises...doable. 6...tough. Especially with increased rest between sets.

Be curious to know what kind of rest people are using between there sets in the case where they are doing 4+ exercises.

KY

Posted by: Built

If you feel you simply must train arms, do them first. They will NOT wipe you out for leg work. And again, ditch accessory work as your cut progresses.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

Well, I just tried the day 2 split for legs, bis, tris, abs.

Forget it.

Tris had to go and I had originally thought about doing cardio on this day too. Too much.

I don't know about anyone else, but from what I've read, the idea of 5 x 5 or any good routine is to get the hell out of the gym in 45-60 minutes. With this split, impossible.

4 exercises...doable. 6...tough. Especially with increased rest between sets.

Be curious to know what kind of rest people are using between there sets in the case where they are doing 4+ exercises.

KY

How long are you resting? I mean, for something like arms, 30sec rest should be more than enough time.

For heavier weights on lower body, say 4-6 rep range, I can still get away with 60-75sec rest, 90sec rest at the most.

So, lets take the high number, 90sec rest. If I choose 4 exercises and perform 3 sets of 6, assuming that each set takes me about 12sec (2sec per rep).

That means my total amount of work is 36sec (3 sets x 12 sec per set) and my total amount of rest is 3min (90 sec rest between set 1 and 2 and 90sec rest between set 2 and 3).

So, the total amount of time for one exercise is 3min. 36sec.

I'll round that up to 4min. to assume that it will take us about 30sec to set up for the next exercise.

4min. per exercise x 4 exercises = 16min. of resistance training. Now, of course there is time where you have to set up for the exercise and you may take longer to prepare for the next exercise or to get a drink etc, so lets a lot 25min. to lifting.

Now it looks like this:

Warm up - 8min.
Resistance training 25min. (maybe another 8min. of you want to do some arms)

Now we are up to 33min (41min if you want to waste your time with arms for another 8min at the end of the leg training).

Then you drop 15-20min. of cardio (intervals or something like that if you want) into the end of the workout and you are out in under an hour.

What is the problem?

Patrick

Posted by: Yanick

Your day two has almost nothing for the posterior chain and your arms are getting more volume than your lower body/core.

Posted by: kyoun1e

Built...as I get into this more and more I'm finding that when something has to go, it's anything arms. And I'm loving legs...especially squats. Never did 'em before and now I want more and more.

P-Funk...are you including warm up efforts? That takes some time too. Plus, I'm doing 5 x 5. I looked up and it was 60 minutes.

I need help with posterior chain. Need a translation. I'll get it in there if it makes sense.

KY

Posted by: Built

Romanian or any other type of deadlifts
Glute ham raises
Pull throughs
Good mornings

Posted by: kyoun1e

Ah.

Did rack pulls. I'm starting with those vs going right to deadlifts. I ruptured a disc a few years ago and that exercise scares the hell out of me. Was thinking start with rack pulls and graduate to deads.

KY

Posted by: Built

Try RDLs - you'll love the way they feel.

GHRs won't mess up your spine at all. You got a GHR bench at your gym?

Posted by: kyoun1e

Yikes. RDLs look even scarier! I'm sure I'll get to all of them. Rack pulls seem like only half the exercise.

Not sure on the GHRs. Probably.

KY

P.S. Built...I think your website was down. Was going to revisit "baby got back" and others and had problems.

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

Built...as I get into this more and more I'm finding that when something has to go, it's anything arms. And I'm loving legs...especially squats. Never did 'em before and now I want more and more.

P-Funk...are you including warm up efforts? That takes some time too. Plus, I'm doing 5 x 5. I looked up and it was 60 minutes.

I need help with posterior chain. Need a translation. I'll get it in there if it makes sense.

KY

Yes, I included warm up sets....did you not read my post? I have 8min. of warm up and I even added in extra time at the end to make up for all the crap you have to do in between exercises.

If you rest 60sec. between sets and you are doing 5 sets, that is 5min. of rest time. For 4 exercises, that is 20min. total in rest alone.

Assuming each set of 5 takes 12sec, that is 60sec of work per exercise (5 sets x 12 sec per set). Multiply that by 4 exercises and you have 4min.

Add 4min to 20min. and you have 24min. total for 4 exercises at 5x5. I'll give you another 10min. for warm up time and set up time of each exercises, bringing you to 35min. total. Now add 10min. of warm up at the start of the workout, and that is 45min. of total time. Now you have time for 15min. of intervals at the end.

I think you need to start timing your rest interval and sticking to it. I just don't see how this is that hard to break up the density of a workout.

Patrick

Posted by: kyoun1e

Ok, that's it.

Two reasons for the difference:

1. I added two isolations
2. Definitely surpassed 60 seconds of rest.
3. (Also, impossible to avoid the unavoidable once per workout bs conversation with somebody...that's another 5)

Thanks for putting together the calculations. And I agree that you have to stick to the clock. I just got off a GVT routine and I watched the clock constantly. Now switching it up, I guess I took my eye off it.

Question: What rest would be most appropriate for a 5 x 5?

Max Ot is real strict with 2 - 3 minutes I believe. I was thinking I could ratchet up or down to increase some variability.

Thanks.

KY

Posted by: Built

My blog is back up.

And GHR = glute ham raise.

Here's a ghetto sub using a bosu ball:

YouTube Video

Posted by: P-funk

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

Ok, that's it.

Two reasons for the difference:

1. I added two isolations
2. Definitely surpassed 60 seconds of rest.
3. (Also, impossible to avoid the unavoidable once per workout bs conversation with somebody...that's another 5)

Thanks for putting together the calculations. And I agree that you have to stick to the clock. I just got off a GVT routine and I watched the clock constantly. Now switching it up, I guess I took my eye off it.

Question: What rest would be most appropriate for a 5 x 5?

Max Ot is real strict with 2 - 3 minutes I believe. I was thinking I could ratchet up or down to increase some variability.

Thanks.

KY

If you are doing a specific program like Max Ot, then go with their recommendations.

If it is 5x5, the rest can depend on your conditioning, how heavy you are going, etc....lots of things.

If you need to take an extremely long rest (I would consider anything north of 2min. long), then you:

a) Are probably lifting very heavy and may want to consider not performing 5x5 for all exercises that day, as you will surely be drained from the first exercise

or

b) You may want to perform lower volume - like 3x5 - to account for the higher intensity you are pushing.

patrick

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